Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod Warning: Post #7871

The_Kew_Tour

No

Have to say for his first game back Fellaini was very good. Some will laugh at his miss but he aint a striker.

Played well and good shift by the man

irishfeen

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Have to say for his first game back Fellaini was very good. Some will laugh at his miss but he aint a striker.

Played well and good shift by the man

Yeah first time he resembled a United player for me - never gave up hope on him and I think he will turn out to be a good solid signing for us.

Quandary

No

That game on Saturday was the first one in months where I felt satisfied with how we played. I know it's only a single game but if that is a brief glimpse of how Moyes intends to use the squad then happy days.

If he sticks to that style of play I honestly think we have a great set of players to exploit it.

Again, it was only one game, but it was very encouraging.

The_Kew_Tour

No

We also created lot more. Vidic and Fellaini could have scored.

Fellaini and Rooney also have few decent efforts each.

The thing is though everytime we got our hopes up we come crashing down. But that was more about the result papering the cracks.

This time we got the result and decent performance. Have to keep it up.

TheDoc

Mitch Connor wrote: »

If Moyes wants a solid CM pairing to provide the base for the freedom afford to a roaming front four - do players like Fabregas (last summer) and Kroos (next summer, maybe) fit with that?

I think both are excellent CMs, but if they are restricted to protecting the defence and passing forward, their performance will be very limited/hampered.

I think it goes down to expectations and understanding of the root, what does the player do. I've outlined in depth what I believe is confusion around Fellaini. Saturday was a good example of this. He performed his defensive work really well, and realising Palace were sitting back, bombed forward a fair few times. This is a real bonus, and nearly paid dividends twice. But first and foremost he is a DM and did his job well.

Someone like Fabregas is a little bit more attack minded. I believe he is having an excellent season, and to be fair I don't watch Barca alot so I'd defer to someone else, but I think Fabregas probably would be surplus to requirements, in a front 4 that contains Rooney, Mata, RVP, Janners, Kagawa.

Kroos seems ideal BECAUSE he operates in a 4-2-3-1 for Bayern, and works in that 2 CM role. There is some confusion that I think is somewhat born by youtube videos or highlight reels.

Kroos most often then not this season has operated in the CM two alongside Schweinsteiger/Martinez/Lahm. On a few occasions with Thiago. It's also what he has done in previous seasons for Bayern. For Germany they have the luxury of having Schweinsteiger and Khadera, so he is able to be pushed that little bit more forward.

Muller, Shaqiri, Robbern, Ribery and Gotze all operate slots in the line of 3 in front of him ( jesus my mouth watered typing that). Kroos does a lot of good defensive work which obviously you won't see, unless you watch Bayern play. That's not a slight, but that stuff doesn't make the highlight reels or youtube videos. But he has a good engine and is tough in the tackle, but positionally is pretty sound.

Where he excels is once he "gets" the ball. He is the linkup between his defence and the front 4. And he executes it sometimes in disgustingly good fashion.

He can play the short balls into his CM partner, or into the three forward players receiving, and typically he stays where he is to receive the ball back, or on occasions will dart past linking up into some slick moves. Kroos also has the benefit of playing some outragous long balls. The wide players will loop out wide then dart inward, to which Kroos has little problems finding. And at times when Bayern are simply dominating, he drifts that little more forward and takes up a position just outside the box, where he can either setup someone with a brilliant pass, keep play ticking over or just launch a rocket into the net.

Arsenal was the perfect example for anyone not familiar with Kroos. I've heard people saying "I know a bayern fan who says he's not that good", absolute rubbish. Bayern fans for some reason simply don't celebrate him enough. I don't know, maybe because they have SUCH a good team one player doesn't overly stand out, but Kroos is an outstanding player. His pass into Robben for the penalty(similar to the one he slotted into Schurrle against us), his goal against Arsenal (similar to what he did to us, twice) and his general play is something not to put away lightly.

I think if you are looking to have a 4-2-3-1, you can't look far beyond Toni Kroos for the perfect piece for your jigsaw.

When I was in the Allianz few weeks back, on the train there of course in a group of 18 football fans, ( on way to the stadium tour) discussions came up about players. Everyone gave their piece and who they loved and liked, and when I said Kroos there was some form of " who know?" And I think that is an accurate reflection. Kroos is someone you would have been familiar with, but might not have considered in anyway a big name. That's what transfer windows can do, Kroos is now all of a sudden on everyones lips, and boy did he grasp the opportunity against Arsenal. After that game I got a flood of messages on Kakao from the lads, some private some in the public chat, basically saying how spot on I was, that he made it all look easy.

I remember having the same converstion pre-irish game with the same mates, said I'd be scared of Kroos, and well we know what happened there.


Murmurs in the German press this morning are that Bayern have rejected Kroos demands and told his representitives to re-evaluate their figures. Look from time to time, clubs ****up, and let someone go they shouldn't. Bayern are a very proud club with a structure in place, and like ourselves, they feel no one is bigger than the club.

Early days yet obviously but if it was all a ploy then you'd expect Bayern to snap him up. There is real interest from ourselves, but I'm imagine alot of teams bar us.

Kroos should be target #1 until he signs a new deal with Bayern, or we capitalise.

Kirby

Serious question. Hypothetical of course but I'd be interested to see where the fans priorities lie.

Win the champions league but finish 6th and miss out on champions league football for a year....possibly more due to not being able to attract the best players.

Or get dumped out now against Olympiakos but finish 4th maintaining champions league football thus being able to strengthen better in the summer.

Now, the winners get in anyway but if they didn't.......which would you value more?

bren2001

Kirby wrote: »

Serious question. Hypothetical of course but I'd be interested to see where the fans priorities lie.

Win the champions league but finish 6th and miss out on champions league football for a year....possibly more due to not being able to attract the best players.

Or get dumped out now against Olympiakos but finish 4th maintaining champions league football thus being able to strengthen better in the summer.

Now, the winners get in anyway but if they didn't.......which would you value more?

In both instances we qualify for next years champions league.....

I'd obviously prefer to win it.

MagicMarker

If we win the Champions League we'd be in the CL next year regardless of league position.

Robson99

bangkok wrote: »

just to set the record straight, has any player for man utd this season created more chances that evra??

For us or the opposition. Evra is fairly good going forward but has been a liability fir the past few seasons defensively

bangkok

Kirby wrote: »

Serious question. Hypothetical of course but I'd be interested to see where the fans priorities lie.

Win the champions league but finish 6th and miss out on champions league football for a year....possibly more due to not being able to attract the best players.

Or get dumped out now against Olympiakos but finish 4th maintaining champions league football thus being able to strengthen better in the summer.

Now, the winners get in anyway but if they didn't.......which would you value more?[/QUOTE]

people never read the last bit........

Robson99

TheDoc wrote: »

Kroos should be target #1 until he signs a new deal with Bayern, or we capitalise.

Id agreed but I also think Modric or Gundogan could fit in as part of a two with Fellani. Hopefully Fellani will kick on now as I think Carricks best days are behind him.

shadowcomplex

No

Would ye prefer kroos over Vidal

Kirby

I'd say Vidal as he fits exactly whats needed. But he isn't for sale.

Break the bank. Buy both!

TheDoc

Kirby wrote: »

Serious question. Hypothetical of course but I'd be interested to see where the fans priorities lie.

Win the champions league but finish 6th and miss out on champions league football for a year....possibly more due to not being able to attract the best players.

Or get dumped out now against Olympiakos but finish 4th maintaining champions league football thus being able to strengthen better in the summer.

Now, the winners get in anyway but if they didn't.......which would you value more?

Champions league title.

I think it would do a WORLD of good for Moyes and his confidence, to win a title of such importance in his first season. That would be the stuff he dreams off.

I think we saw with the Hazard deal, how much emphasis some players put on CL success. He chose them over us, purely because of the CL title. We were prepared to go toe to toe wage wise.

Sorry but I don't buy into that Arsenal mantra of finishing in the top 4 being a success. For a big club it's the minimum requirement, it shouldn't even have to be mentioned.

I think hands down I'd take a CL cup everyday of the week. How quickly would EVERYONE come onto the same side, all backing Moyes, players, club, fans, everything. In an instant doubts and fears would be cast aside and it would surely breathe unwavering confidence into the man.

shadowcomplex

No

Jayop wrote: »

This Olympiakos game will tell a lot. They may be a poor team on a Euro scale but it's the kind of slip up we've been making this season. A decent run of wins before the Liverpool game is all we need.

Yea and if Southampton turn over pool at home which is very possible and we beat Westbrom , the pool game at old Trafford will be very big indeed

TheDoc

shadowcomplex wrote: »

Would ye prefer kroos over Vidal

I've only seen Vidal once or twice this season, and it was after us being linked. I'd be lying if I said I even heard of him before this season. My Seria A attention has solely being on Strootman, catching any Roma game I can.

In terms of Gundagon mentioned above, I saw him a fair bit last year and towards the end of the season before ( I started watching Bundesliga more regularly about two seasons ago) and he does fit the bill alright. I'd rate him under Kroos, but if he was attained it would definitely be a good thing. But I have serious worries over his back injury from this year, too many things coming out via media in Germany indicating its a serious injury that could scupper his career.

Modric I don't think would be the solution. He is more suited to playing in the three of a 4-2-3-1 for me, if I'm looking at Madrid it's more Alonso I'd be looking at as a pair with Fellaini. (Possible Free transfer this summer don't forget) .

shadowcomplex

No

Kirby wrote: »

Serious question. Hypothetical of course but I'd be interested to see where the fans priorities lie.

Win the champions league but finish 6th and miss out on champions league football for a year....possibly more due to not being able to attract the best players.

Or get dumped out now against Olympiakos but finish 4th maintaining champions league football thus being able to strengthen better in the summer.

Now, the winners get in anyway but if they didn't.......which would you value more?

If we win the champions league we would be back in it next year despite where we finish in the league , it's the 4th place team that would lose out . Oh how sweet it would be if we were to win it and Liverpool finished 4th

Maximus Alexander

shadowcomplex wrote: »

If we win the champions league we would be back in it next year despite where we finish in the league , it's the 4th place team that would lose out . Oh how sweet it would be if we were to win it and Liverpool finished 4th

There's no chance of this happening, but oh it would be glorious. Every last one of us would summon the spirit of Eric Cartman - running around the city licking the delicious tears from the faces of Liverpool fans.

bren2001

TheDoc wrote: »

I've only seen Vidal once or twice this season, and it was after us being linked. I'd be lying if I said I even heard of him before this season. My Seria A attention has solely being on Strootman, catching any Roma game I can.

In terms of Gundagon mentioned above, I saw him a fair bit last year and towards the end of the season before ( I started watching Bundesliga more regularly about two seasons ago) and he does fit the bill alright. I'd rate him under Kroos, but if he was attained it would definitely be a good thing. But I have serious worries over his back injury from this year, too many things coming out via media in Germany indicating its a serious injury that could scupper his career.

Modric I don't think would be the solution. He is more suited to playing in the three of a 4-2-3-1 for me, if I'm looking at Madrid it's more Alonso I'd be looking at as a pair with Fellaini. (Possible Free transfer this summer don't forget) .

He signed a two year contract extension in January. PSG offered him mad money but he decided he didn't want to sell his soul.

bangkok

Serie A is an extremely poor league to be honest, very hard to judge any players over there giving the opposition... both Juve and Napoli knocked out at groupstage this year and the only side left AC Milan are currently 9th in the league....

TheDoc

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

Missed the match on Saturday but was able to download and watch it last night.

Maybe it was because I didn't have the nerves by knowing the result, but I thought Saturday's performance was a world away from the Fulham game. It was pass, pass, pass, instead of cross, cross, cross, and for the first time in... Eh... A long time, there was a purpose about our build up play. This is because Valencia, and to a lesser extent, Young, were not on the pitch. By having only 1 winger on the pitch in Januzaj, the attacking 4 had to keeping coming and showing for the ball, and finally in Carrick and Fellaini we had a duo capable of taking a pass from the back 4, turning, and passing it on.

We have to abandon our wingers. We need to put our best players out there and Valencia and Young just are not going to cut it. I would love to see Kagawa come in and get some action with Carrick and Fellaini behind him and RVP and Rooney in front of him.

Much better, but the fear is next week we go back to a rigid 4-4-2 with wingers and go back to the absolute crap we have been seeing over the last few months.

I love this post, because it really highlights in itself the conflict that Moyes probably is dealing with every time he looks at the team on paper.

It's no doubt that our legacy, our success in domestic football has been built of a 4-4-2, with effective wingers. Abandoning this and going with a 4-2-3-1 is a big shift into a new system and play style that we really havn't experienced before. There was flashes of it with Rooney, Ronaldo, Tevez and Berbatov, and alot of people signal that time period as being United's most threatening style for a long period.

Hopefully Moyes is settled now to make the big decisions and make the big changes. I think for as much as we have been weak this season, teams are still parking it in front of us, and a 4-2-3-1 allows you to simply dominate possession and the game itself, patiently waiting for the vital first goal.

4-4-2 gives too much exposure to be hit against, so I for one agree and hope we ditch 4-4-2 until such a time that wha we saw at the weekend consistently backfires. But I'm struggling to see how.

I'm not sure if maybe it's Moyes making a drastic shift in tought, or if it's what he wanted from the get go and needed Fellaini fit to do it. I get a feeling its somewhat the latter, and the things we have seen in the last while have been more down to playing a way the manager felt could get results with X personal, rather then his actual longterm plan.

TheDoc

bren2001 wrote: »

He signed a two year contract extension in January. PSG offered him mad money but he decided he didn't want to sell his soul.

Cheers for that clarification, that one totally went through the net :O Good business for Madrid, madness letting him go.

shadowcomplex

No

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

There's no chance of this happening, but oh it would be glorious. Every last one of us would summon the spirit of Eric Cartman - running around the city licking the delicious tears from the faces of Liverpool fans.

The chance is small alright but I wouldn't say we have no chance , football is a funny old game . Who would have given Chelsea a chance when they went down to 10 men against barca in 2012 and then they had to play bayern on their own patch , or Liverpool when they went down 3-0 at half time v Milan in 2005 , I think the champions league suits us because we aren't the ones where the onus will be on breaking teams down , with fellaini carrick and fletcher in midfield we can make our selfs very tough to break down and with Rooney and Rvp up front we always have a chance of scoring

Robson99

TheDoc wrote: »

Modric I don't think would be the solution. He is more suited to playing in the three of a 4-2-3-1 for me, if I'm looking at Madrid it's more Alonso I'd be looking at as a pair with Fellaini. (Possible Free transfer this summer don't forget) .

I think he would be ideal beside Fellani. He was excellent at Spurs when played in a deeper role. He is constantly looking for the ball and probing with his passes. He would be the ideal link up for Kawaga, Rooney and Mata

The_Kew_Tour

No

Thing nobody has picked up upon is that Carrick is 33 in summer.

He aint old but he aint no spring chicken now either.

CM will be top top priority in summer. And no im not Jamie ;-]

bangkok

Robson99 wrote: »

I think he would be ideal beside Fellani. He was excellent at Spurs when played in a deeper role. He is constantly looking for the ball and probing with his passes. He would be the ideal link up for Kawaga, Rooney and Mata

modric will not be leaving Madrid..

SherlockWatson

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Thing nobody has picked up upon is that Carrick is 33 in summer.

I'm fairly certain its not news that Carrick is getting older.

Robson99

bangkok wrote: »

modric will not be leaving Madrid..

Ok so

irishfeen

Sky Sports News just breaking the Kroos - "no player is bigger then Bayern Munich" thing - nice to hear there is problems at least.

bucketybuck

No

bangkok wrote: »

modric will not be leaving Madrid..

He'll be a big loss against Schalke on Wednesday then.

Whatsisname

No

I'll eat my own head if we sign Kroos

irishfeen

Whatsisname wrote: »

I'll eat my own head if we sign Kroos

Bookmarked! :pac:

Whatsisname

No

irishfeen wrote: »

Bookmarked! :pac:

I said this on twitter about Mata and I've just been called on it so I may potentially have to eat my own head twice :pac:

irishfeen

Whatsisname wrote: »

I said this on twitter about Mata and I've just been called on it so I may potentially have to eat my own head twice :pac:

I presume it will look something like this - TWICE!

The_Kew_Tour

No

Ill celebrate with Apple Crumble and Ben and Jerrys Cookie Dough if Kroos comes.

irishfeen

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Ill celebrate with Apple Crumble and Ben and Jerrys Cookie Dough if Kroos comes.

... i'll just break out the famous dance moves.

bantee

No

Really looking forward to seeing Mata play again tomorrow evening.

RasTa

No

bantee wrote: »

Really looking forward to seeing Mata play again tomorrow evening.

Really?

The_Kew_Tour

No

bantee wrote: »

Really looking forward to seeing Mata play again tomorrow evening.

He is cup....................oh hang on its a joke right;)

Fool me once

Spanish Johnny

Hi lads, Arsenal fan here and interested in the Kroos situation. Find it odd that no one else is as heavily linked with him as he is a brilliant player currently and even more so potentially. Maybe I am not looking in the right places but you would imagine that one or two of City, Chelsea, PSG and the big two in Spain must be looking at him too?

brinty

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

He is cup....................oh hang on its a joke right;)

Fool me once

thats not like Kew

Paulegend

winning the champions league and now signing kross seriously lads come on. stop living in the past kross wont be going to united. if he is available dont you think arsenal liverpool city chelsea psg madrid might all have a look at him?? surely he wont choose europa league over one of the big teams.

and champiosn league ye should beat olympicous but after that........ cant see ye getting past the next round.

but for what its worth we at liverpool have been optimistic for 20+ years now and its finally paying off





lol all joking aside once ye get rid of moyes and bring in someone new ye will shoot back up the league. pep, hiddink, van gaal all good shouts. the lad from dortmund or the lad from ath madrid would be also good shouts. hell even good old ary redknapp would be a good shout. if moyes stays and ye start next season like this he will be gone by christmas no doubt. united deserve better than that

The_Kew_Tour

No

In fairness I dont see many United fans say we are going to win the CL.

Most of us think we be doing well to get to QF.

Some people would do good job working for the English Media here.

bantee

No

Paulegend wrote: »

pep, hiddink, van gaal all good shouts. the lad from dortmund or the lad from ath madrid would be also good shouts. hell even good old ary redknapp would be a good shout. if moyes stays and ye start next season like this he will be gone by christmas no doubt. united deserve better than that

Could you give us some more managers who would be a good shout?

Will I Amnt

No

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

In fairness I dont see many United fans say we are going to win the CL.

That's because there's not. Some people just arrive in here and invent arguments.

Also, f**king lol at the suggestion that we couldn't get Kroos but Liverpool could.

Rayne Wooney

It'll probably be around the third week of July before we start going for players with the World Cup being over.

Teams won't want to sell players before the World Cup as the tournament will probably increase their value.

brinty

bantee wrote: »

Could you give us some more managers who would be a good shout?

Souness, Evans, Houllier, Benitez and Woy Hodgson would all be in with a good shout.....
Experts in continued failure to win a league title!!!

brinty

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Also, f**king lol at the suggestion that we couldn't get Kroos but Liverpool could.

Christ that must be the most deluded thing i've heard from a Liverpool fan since 1991....other than next season will be our season...and we're still a big club....

v3ttel

Paulegend wrote: »

winning the champions league and now signing kross seriously lads come on. stop living in the past kross wont be going to united.

WTF? I wonder if people just have stock phrases that they are waiting to throw at United fans.

Unless we've already signed Kross and let him go, maybe you could explain how that is "living in the past"?

Also, could you point out how many of us have seriously said we'd win the champions league? Very few, I'm betting, without it being tongue in cheek.

irishfeen

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

In fairness I dont see many United fans say we are going to win the CL.

Most of us think we be doing well to get to QF.

Some people would do good job working for the English Media here.

Its funny deep down we all know we won't win it but I can bet you even if we were playing Bayern, Real, Bayern at the latter stages I would have convinced myself by kick off that we have every chance of winning - supporting a team always gives you tunnel vision.