Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod Warning: Post #7871

slingerz

Think the players should take some flak really. They are the ones crossing the white line and they're efforts have not been up to scratch.

scudzilla

No

slingerz wrote: »

Think the players should take some flak really. They are the ones crossing the white line and they're efforts have not been up to scratch.

Same players as last year, difference is the manager last year could motivate them and change tactics accordingly

LuckyCharms

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Yes but I don't think he has even started the project yet. As I said earleir, this was always going to be a non-season not only for Moyes, but for any man that took over last July. With a season under the belt, I expect any manager to have a better idea of the weaknesses and driftwood within the team. Taking over 6 weeks before the new season starts is not an adequate amount of time for that process to occur. So I expect the project work you mentioned to really begin this summer.

The managers at Barca/Madrid/Bayern/Chelsea and City are in the exact same position as Moyes was. Why does he get a full season before even being judged?

and in the mean time get a free pass for spunking 60m and playing some of the worse football ive seen in the premiership.

The_Kew_Tour

No

zerks wrote: »

It's like a flashback to Ireland under big Jack.




Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2568071/Robin-van-Persie-blasts-United-team-mates-occupying-spaces-firing-blank.html#ixzz2uQn6XmG5

At least Ireland could play football when they wanted to. Funny stat is that they scored the goal with the most passes in the 1994 world cup(v mexico). (I think its still in top 5-10 ever)

Also Jack beat teams like Spain, Italy, Germany(in Germany), Portugal, Holland, England, Brazil. Knocked out Denmark(Euro champs at the time)

These were all very good sides back then.

We have a manager that cannot beat the the worst side in the PL......at home!!

Leftist

No

guardian saying moyes is going nowhere.

the club is rotten from the inside tbh.

Cantona's Collars

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Yes but I don't think he has even started the project yet. As I said earleir, this was always going to be a non-season not only for Moyes, but for any man that took over last July. With a season under the belt, I expect any manager to have a better idea of the weaknesses and driftwood within the team. Taking over 6 weeks before the new season starts is not an adequate amount of time for that process to occur. So I expect the project work you mentioned to really begin this summer.

But the elephant in the room is the saying "fail to prepare,prepare to fail".Nothing convinces me that what he has done so far this season will magically be reversed & he'll build a world class team starting this Summer.

brinty

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Yes but I don't think he has even started the project yet. As I said earleir, this was always going to be a non-season not only for Moyes, but for any man that took over last July. With a season under the belt, I expect any manager to have a better idea of the weaknesses and driftwood within the team. Taking over 6 weeks before the new season starts is not an adequate amount of time for that process to occur. So I expect the project work you mentioned to really begin this summer.

Bull**** its been discussed to death about that.
How come Mourinho has come in and has Chelsea competing for a league title, Pellegrini the same...this he needed a season is b****x...he was backed to spend in the transfer market and didn't
He was brought in and knew on 9th may last year he had the job, almost 4 months to the window and signed one player with minutes to spare...the above 2 managers got more players in with less time
He has no discernable style of play... both mourinho and Pellegrini do..they don't change formation on a match by match basis
He hasn't managed at a higher level or won trophies...both of mourinho and Pellegrini have

Macca07

secman wrote: »

The Glaziers are money people, when the 1billion bottom line value drops to 700, 650 million they won't give a fcuck about Fergies feeling s, they will get rid of Moyes, can't see them giving him 200 million , just as well we were only in 4 competitions as he has screwed up everyone we were in. Moyes is proving to be a tactical dinosaur, doesn't say much about the pro licence !

That's the main point I think when it comes to whether or not Moyes will get the sack. United won't qualify for the CL next season, possibly the EL, big loss in funds. Big loss in funds makes unhappy shareholders, that the Glaziers have to answer to. The board have to answer to the Glaziers, and Moyes has to answer to the board. If the Glaziers feel that another season isn't going to make any difference to Moyes, no matter how much money he has to spend, then he'll get the road.

Aidric

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Moyes was 15/2 to get the sack next at 9am this morning. He's now 8/11

That's a massive market shift

Yes, cause the volumes in markets like this is huge. :rolleyes:

kstand

No

Aidric wrote: »

Yes, cause the volumes in markets like this is huge. :rolleyes:

Volumes aren't the driving force - its all rumour and the boos have shortened to reflect that and protect the makers in case the rumours turn out to be true.
There's something going on but I'd be shocked if it was announced that Moyes was leaving. Shocked and happy in equal measure.

Macca07

mike65 wrote: »

While Liverpool were in slightly more precarious position earlier in the season, 12th on Dec 29th (though still in the EL) the supporters made it clear that Hodgson HAD to leave with chants and then empty seats (the home game to Wolves game which Liverpool lost). He was gone 12 days later, an ex manager came in and it was like night and day (even if KD would end up disappointing in the following season) the same players reacted as if a great weight had been lifted and turned in far better performances.

The thing is, Old Trafford won't have empty seats for a very long time. The tried to do it when the Glaziers took over, it failed miserably, United just have too big a fanbase. I think it'll have to come from the senior players in the dressing room, and the problem is that the majority of senior players are gone in the summer.

paulbok

No

Would I be right in saying that it's 25 years since Uniteds season ended this early in the season?

kstand

No

Macca07 wrote: »

The thing is, Old Trafford won't have empty seats for a very long time. The tried to do it when the Glaziers took over, it failed miserably, United just have too big a fanbase. I think it'll have to come from the senior players in the dressing room, and the problem is that the majority of senior players are gone in the summer.

Vidic has another 2 years in him - cant understand why he is not been given a chance to extend his contract or why he is leaving.
RVP will leave as well I would think as he seems out of sorts.
You'll end up with the likes of Rooney and Mata and a whole load of average sh1te like Cleverly, Valencia etc.

Mr.Micro

If Moyes gets the push, it will change little. The same apathetic players, with much experience will still be there. If they are so good, they would win, no matter what. Moyes inherited a job, where he is the scapegoat, for all the bad players, whom Ferguson, should have cleared out over the years.

Macca07

kstand wrote: »

Vidic has another 2 years in him - cant understand why he is not been given a chance to extend his contract or why he is leaving.
RVP will leave as well I would think as he seems out of sorts.
You'll end up with the likes of Rooney and Mata and a whole load of average sh1te like Cleverly, Valencia etc.

Vidic has probably decided that he'll follow Fergie, just like Evra will be doing.

RvP won't be going anywhere because no one will give him a long-term contract on the same wages as he's getting at United.

Macca07

I think Miguel Delaney summed it up perfectly last night with this tweet.

Miguel Delaney wrote:

It's a bit like watching a general English team performance in Europe from mid-90s, just exposed by a more savvy team almost by attrition.

And that's exactly what it was, it was like our first year in the CL, not knowing what way to play or what tactics to deploy.

LuckyCharms

Mr.Micro wrote: »

If Moyes gets the push, it will change little. The same apathetic players, with much experience will still be there. If they are so good, they would win, no matter what. Moyes inherited a job, where he is the scapegoat, for all the bad players, whom Ferguson, should have cleared out over the years.

Sadly it doesn't work like that, otherwise you wouldn't need a manager at all.

Players need coaches as much as coaches need players.

Look what happened when SAF announced his retirement the first time, Utd went to the dogs.

Blatter

No

Thinking about the situation last night, I've come to the conclusion that the Glazer's will probably remove Moyes from his position by or at the end of the season.

They are ruthless businessmen and will be eager to see their asset not damaged any further. If Ferguson opposes the motion, which I doubt he will at this stage, the Glazers aren't going to be afraid of overruling him.

But I'm convinced that Ferguson himself knows he's the wrong man for the job at this stage. He won't like the way Moyes constantly talks about signing marquee players to appease fans, he won't like the way he gave Rooney a £300k/week contract until he's nearly 34, he won't like the negative tactics, he won't like the lack of self belief in the man and he won't like the way he has seemingly lost the dressing room.

Moyes is almost the opposite to what Ferguson expected from him.

Its All Wright

Im forgetting this season, roll on August

bucketybuck

No

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

But I just want the man to be given an adequate amount of time to effect change within the club. But those who think 8 months is an adequate amount of time in a behemoth of a club like United?

But this is a view based on a false assumption.

Holding this view assumes that the manager in question is actually able to affect the change needed. It assumes that the manager is a good manager.

You cannot just blindly assume that whomever Fergie selected is a good manager and therefore should be given the luxury of time to affect change. The onus is on the manager to demonstrate in some fashion that he does indeed deserve the time to succeed. David Moyes has spectacularly failed to do so.

adox

No

Mr.Micro wrote: »

If Moyes gets the push, it will change little. The same apathetic players, with much experience will still be there. If they are so good, they would win, no matter what. Moyes inherited a job, where he is the scapegoat, for all the bad players, whom Ferguson, should have cleared out over the years.

So many contradictions in this.

You also make it sound like a team doesnt need a manager.

8-10

paulbok wrote: »

Would I be right in saying that it's 25 years since Uniteds season ended this early in the season?

It's not over yet. Olympiaskos isn't done as a tie

CSF

No

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Yes but I don't think he has even started the project yet. As I said earleir, this was always going to be a non-season not only for Moyes, but for any man that took over last July. With a season under the belt, I expect any manager to have a better idea of the weaknesses and driftwood within the team. Taking over 6 weeks before the new season starts is not an adequate amount of time for that process to occur. So I expect the project work you mentioned to really begin this summer.

Ah come on, the project starts the minute you get in the door. Giving a manager to come in and manage the champions a free pass with no expectations is beyond bizarre. I actually can't believe I'm reading this.

The_Kew_Tour

No

I say it wont be till end of season for simple reason their is no replacement out there at minute.

Its All Wright

8-10 wrote: »

It's not over yet. Olympiaskos isn't done as a tie

The tie is done, were in a knot we wont get out off

kstand

No

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I say it wont be till end of season for simple reason their is no replacement out there at minute.

What about Ferguson taking over until summer?

UnitedIrishman

No

Blatter wrote: »

Thinking about the situation last night, I've come to the conclusion that the Glazer's will probably remove Moyes from his position by or at the end of the season.

They are ruthless businessmen and will be eager to see their asset not damaged any further. If Ferguson opposes the motion, which I doubt he will at this stage, the Glazers aren't going to be afraid of overruling him.

But I'm convinced that Ferguson himself knows he's the wrong man for the job at this stage. He won't like the way Moyes constantly talks about signing marquee players to appease fans, he won't like the way he gave Rooney a £300k/week contract until he's nearly 34, he won't like the negative tactics, he won't like the lack of self belief in the man and he won't like the way he has seemingly lost the dressing room.

Moyes is almost the opposite to what Ferguson expected from him.

Just can't see it. The board trusted Ferguson to manage his way through 4-5 years without spending a lot of money and deliver success on a constant basis whilst they were managing the debt so I definitely think they'll defer to Ferguson and Charlton on football matters. Fergie will fight Moyes corner through thick and thin because he's stubborn enough not to admit he was wrong.

CSF

No

Mr.Micro wrote: »

If Moyes gets the push, it will change little. The same apathetic players, with much experience will still be there. If they are so good, they would win, no matter what. Moyes inherited a job, where he is the scapegoat, for all the bad players, whom Ferguson, should have cleared out over the years.

This is pure and utter rubbish. 'if they are so good, they would win, no matter what' This sentence alone shows a massive lack of understanding of how football works. It is unquestionable that Van Persie for one, actually is that good, but at the moment he looks ineffective. Not his fault. Bad management has an impact on every player at the club, be they world class striker, or young squad player.

Vinz Mesrine

Lads, what time is the announcement? Some people saying 1.30 and others 2.30.

The_Kew_Tour

No

kstand wrote: »

What about Ferguson taking over until summer?

Personally I be against it.

Think we need to look forward.

Blatter

No

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I say it wont be till end of season for simple reason their is no replacement out there at minute.

It could be for compensation reasons as well. The club will be able to say definitively at the end of the season 'you failed to get top 4' etc. Although we could be mathematically out of the race for that well before the season ends, such is the shambles Moyes has turned the club into.

Vinz Mesrine

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Personally I be against it.

Think we need to look forward.

I agree with this. If Fergie takes over what does that mean for the next permanent manager? Do a good job or the man upstairs will come down to take over.

Nalz

No

Lads I'm depressed.

I can handle being 6th and playing poorly in the cl but the noises coming from the players and the obvious issues in the side\club is killing me.

Absolutely killing me

kstand

No

Vinz Mesrine wrote: »

Lads, what time is the announcement? Some people saying 1.30 and others 2.30.

NYSE opens at 2.30pm local time here in London and Dublin.

Macca07

kstand wrote: »

What about Ferguson taking over until summer?

Not a chance in hell, well I hope not. It would make finding a suitable replacement even harder.

LuckyCharms

Id give Hiddink a massive wedge on condition he made the UCL this year. Handy gig for him 10 mll if he gets 4th this year then go after Simeone/Klopp/Conte/Bielsa for next year.

If your Hiddink - come in for 3 mths - collect 2m rising to 10 if u make UCL, thats pretty attractive. Worth a gamble at this stage. If they have finally realised the cluster**** made when Moyes was appointed that is.

This will give the club the chance to rid the club of all the useless crap Moyes brought with him aswell.

Let him steady the ship while we rebuild our structure to what it was before Moyes came and get the new manager to work within that. Let him bring in 2-3 of his own staff to work with the current staff.

UnitedIrishman

No

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

A very good point and I can totally see not only your logic but also the business logic behind it. But I just want the man to be given an adequate amount of time to effect change within the club. But those who think 8 months is an adequate amount of time in a behemoth of a club like United? Well that is just totally nonsensical imo. And I may be wrong, but my gut feeling suspects the Glazers have the good business sense to realise that also.

The problem Corvus is that we don't have 2-3 shots to take at rebuilding the squad for the future i.e. spend over 150m, give 4-5 players 100k or more. If we don't do that right, then we're staring into the abyss by the time 3.5 years comes around. We aren't bankrolled by the same kind of powers that own the likes of Chelsea and City - we're bankrolled by our own commercial success and in this department the Glazers have done that job well. But with continued failure comes less commercial and sponsorship money and suddenly 3.5 years down the line our budget has dramatically reduced.

It's not that it's a kneejerk reaction from a handful of games. It's been 95% of over 30 odd games that has proven that Moyes is tactically inept at this level and unable to motivate players to do anything other than aimlessly cross the ball.

NeVeR

I think the announcement is about a new Kit deal, not Moyes ,,,, Could be wrong.

Spanish Johnny

I appreciate this is very much a debate for United fans and it’s fair to be sceptical of an outside supporter suggesting that Moyes gets more time. But there seems to be some contradictions when looking through the posts the last while. There is a large consensus now that he should be sacked yet at the same time the consensus is ye need at least 6 new players. Surely this indicates that the squad is not to the required standard for any manager including Moyes?


Does he not deserve a summer transfer window to put his own stamp?

Maybe he deserves a chance to clear out these players and the ones that are plodding along and not playing for him?


Why do people like Van Persie, Evra, Ferdinand, etc get a free ride in comparison to Moyes? How can guys on over £100,000 a week be so apathetic and get away with it relative to the Manager?



Was genuinely shocked watching Van Persie in the flesh against Arsenal and his complete lack of effort, sprinting was non existant, work rate was zero. Can all that be pinned on Moyes? Even if he doesn’t like him, inspire him etc surely you put your shift in for the Club?


Is it possible that Van Persie, Ferdinand, Evra are perhaps a malign influence now on Moyes and he needs to get over this season and start afresh with his new team?


I really think that the players, hugely paid professional footballers are getting a very easy ride here.


I guess the one area I can understand United supporters frustrations is the lack of a system/design of play. That definitely is a black mark and understandable.

kstand

No

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Personally I be against it.

Think we need to look forward.

Well we need someone to kick start a reaction in the dressing room and send Fergie in with plenty boots lying around and anything else he wants to throw at them - that should motivate them. Moyes is a waste of time.
Then in the meantime look around at summer alternatives and don't just go for Van Gaal purely because he's available - you might have one good season but then as always with him it would end in tears and we'd be back to square one.

scudzilla

No

kstand wrote: »

What about Ferguson taking over until summer?

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Personally I be against it.

Think we need to look forward.

As much as i love SAF and what he's done there really can be no coming back for him, what IF we got rid of Moyes now and he did take over till the end of the season, the new manager will have enough pressure with the job anyway, it would make it 10 times worse aving to look over his shoulder and see SAF in the directors box, ready to take over.

Get rid of Moyes now and let Giggs and Scholes take over, as a pair, till the end of the season, they're red through and through and will have the fans total support, they can't be worse than what we have already

LuckyCharms

Personally, i would not want SAF back at this stage, it will send out a terrible message to any future managers, especially with him retaining a position within the club. Let him keep his word, we will be the better for it.

kstand

No

NeVeR wrote: »

I think the announcement is about a new Kit deal, not Moyes ,,,, Could be wrong.

More than likely right - signing deals with 3rd parties seems to be more important than anything on the pitch these days.

Mitch Connor

No

Spanish Johnny wrote: »

I appreciate this is very much a debate for United fans and it’s fair to be sceptical of an outside supporter suggesting that Moyes gets more time. But there seems to be some contradictions when looking through the posts the last while. There is a large consensus now that he should be sacked yet at the same time the consensus is ye need at least 6 new players. Surely this indicates that the squad is not to the required standard for any manager including Moyes?


Does he not deserve a summer transfer window to put his own stamp?

Maybe he deserves a chance to clear out these players and the ones that are plodding along and not playing for him?


Why do people like Van Persie, Evra, Ferdinand, etc get a free ride in comparison to Moyes? How can guys on over £100,000 a week be so apathetic and get away with it relative to the Manager?



Was genuinely shocked watching Van Persie in the flesh against Arsenal and his complete lack of effort, sprinting was non existant, work rate was zero. Can all that be pinned on Moyes? Even if he doesn’t like him, inspire him etc surely you put your shift in for the Club?


Is it possible that Van Persie, Ferdinand, Evra are perhaps a malign influence now on Moyes and he needs to get over this season and start afresh with his new team?


I really think that the players, hugely paid professional footballers are getting a very easy ride here.


I guess the one area I can understand United supporters frustrations is the lack of a system/design of play. That definitely is a black mark and understandable.

MOyes had two windows to make obvious replacements in the team - failed to do so in both windows.

The players we do have are nowhere near as bad as Moyes has them playing - we should be in the mix for 4th. in the last 12 games we have won 4 and lost 6 - that is simply a disgrace.

He lurches from one style and tactic to another game to game with seemingly no definitive plan in place.

Simply put, he has done absolutely nothing to suggest, imo, that he is the right man to leave in charge of rebuilding United.

The_Kew_Tour

No

Blatter wrote: »

It could be for compensation reasons as well. The club will be able to say definitively at the end of the season 'you failed to get top 4' etc. Although we could be mathematically out of the race for that well before the season ends, such is the shambles Moyes has turned the club into.

Yep, this could be right.

Macca07

I know I slated the players as well as the management earlier for the performance last night but it looks like the players don't trust or believe in the management team right now, and I wouldn't blame them. RvP and Carrick made that clear with the comments after the game.

But please god, don't play Tom Cleverly anymore in CM, or anywhere else. I'd prefer Powell to be brought back or Lingard to get a few games rather than seeing Clev play.

Son Of A Vidic

brinty wrote: »

Bull**** its been discussed to death about that.

Last time I checked, this is the first time I’ve discussed this in the United thread. But since when do you decide when, where and whom may or may not express an opinion? Because I wasn't aware of a moratorium being in place on certain topics.

brinty wrote: »

How come Mourinho has come in and has Chelsea competing for a league title, Pellegrini the same...this he needed a season is b****x...he was backed to spend in the transfer market and didn't

Well Mourinho has a midfield and there are also quite a few pivotal players in the squad that were present during his initial tenure at the club. Pellegini? Well hasn’t he a couple of hundred million reasons to be in challenging position this season. And Mancini left him a decent squad, a squad with not much wrong with it.

brinty wrote: »

He was brought in and knew on 9th may last year he had the job, almost 4 months to the window and signed one player with minutes to spare...the above 2 managers got more players in with less time

He started his job as United manager on the 1st July 2013. Unlike you, I’m not in a position to speculate on what he did or didn't do prior to officially taking up his appointment.

brinty wrote: »

He hasn't managed at a higher level or won trophies...both of mourinho and Pellegrini have

No but he did win Premier League Manger of the Year 3 times while operating on fumes. And that gives me hope.

super_furry

No

Would United fans take a punt on Michael Laudrup until the end of the season with the option of a year extension?

Agueroooo

Blatter wrote: »

It could be for compensation reasons as well. The club will be able to say definitively at the end of the season 'you failed to get top 4' etc. Although we could be mathematically out of the race for that well before the season ends, such is the shambles Moyes has turned the club into.

Blatter I value your, and Kews word on here, and would love to know a couple of bullet points on where, and how you see Moyes has failed?

Lord TSC

No

super_furry wrote: »

Would United fans take a punt on Michael Laudrup until the end of the season with the option of a year extension?

I'd take a punt on my Granny right now...