Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod Warning: Post #7871

Mitch Connor

No

If Fergie had us in the same position with the same performances I would be saying it was time for him to retire too.

Hank Scorpio

No

Wonder what words of wisdom P Neville and Round give to the players after such a defeat.

paulbok

No

“That is what our training sessions will be about as opposed to, ‘Here is what they are going to do to hurt us and this is what we are going to do to defend against them’.

If Moyes was at least getting this part right, it would be something, but there is no plan/shape to the defence or the attack.

Giruilla

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Its the 3rd season in a row too that we have had a disappointing CL campaign.

This will be the most embarrassing defeat in Knockout stages though in 20 years.

I can't say I was disappointed in the team/manager for the Real defeat.. thought United were on course to cruise past until got shafted.

I've never seen the likes of last night though.
Kagawa plays 90 mins in 5 of the group games with United winning 4 comfortably and drawing the other... come to biggest game of the tournament so far.. and he starts Cleverley. Just knew straight away what the game would be like.

Blatter

No

Mitch Connor wrote: »

If Fergie had us in the same position with the same performances I would be saying it was time for him to retire too.

He'd know himself that it was time to retire if he had us in this position with this squad imo.

Speaks volumes.

adox

No

TheDoc wrote: »

That message has changed since December with the realisation that the ability for Ferguson to drive staff on to achieve targets above their limitations, simply couldnt be quantified on paper. It is understood now the task is much larger then originally thought, and that while initially the playing squad was expected to largely stay the same, it is now accepted the squad requires major reworks to ensure a return to competitiveness.

This message Woodward delivered already at a shareholder address. It is understood the club are organising financials so that a large sum will be available for the summer window.

And it somewhat eludes to the point I was making. You can't quantify Fergusons ability to overachieve with average players. The arguement of "the same players won the league last year" is easily countered with "managed by Ferguson" which is something that is easily ommited. It's a massive factor that you simply cannot put into any sort of words. Aside from the league being piss poor last year, Ferguson was a different animal. Moyes is coming into a machine that is essentially on auto-pilot, and he needs to grab hold of the wheel and put his mark on things.

As much as I love Ferguson and wish he was still in charge of the team, it does the club and the players a dis service to say that it was all down to Ferguson that they won titles. Sure Ferguson I`m sure got that little bit extra out the squad that few if any other managers could get. You accuse myself and like minded people of ignoring or omitting this point, which is simply not true. I havent seen anybody since the summer on here, state that Moyes should repeat the feat of Ferguson last year. In fact most if not everybody on here accepted that Utd wouldnt be challenging for the league this season and would most likely have to settle for a top four place.

The thing that you think I am doing, ignoring Fergusons influence and ability to get that extra out of players, is the exact thing you are doing at the opposite end. You are hugely overvaluing his ability to get extra out of a group of players and a squad. If you think that the brand of football, the results and place in the league is where this squad of players should truely be, then there is no talking to you tbh.

No one expected Moyes to come in and just continue what Ferguson had accomplished but at the same time no one, I would guess, expected the **** storm that has ensued since he took over. The fact that Woodward and the board as you elude, thought that the squad was fine and then after Christmas decided that it was poorer than they thought, in a way is very worrying. It implies that they think it is the quality of the squad and not the manager that is the major problem.

The near mythical abilities of Ferguson to get so much extra out of players is re writing history and the sort of ****e that abus actually come out with, to convince themselves that Utd never really were "that" good and it was only because they had Ferguson that they achieved anything. To hear it from Utd fans is even more galling.

As I said at the start, I love Ferguson and dont under estimate the effect he had on the club and what he did for it,but at the same time reality checks are needed.

BloodBath

No

TheDoc wrote: »

Considering the majority trend here is

"People who back Moyes, are beyond me" and the likes, it's somewhat expectable that in order to convey my feelings and points, to even promote some training of thought provoking on others behalfs, it needs to be more then a quick read.

The arguements for firing him are quick and concise and don't need explanation, because most other people just agree with "him being sacked", the opposite is true for giving him time.

I do appreciate my stuff can be lengthy, so might be worth putting me on ignore so it doesn't clutter space, and just view them when you want. (not being smart, genuinelly appreciate my stuff takes up so much space)

Also thanks for the confirmation on Janners, didn't realise

That's fair enough man. Maybe try to keep the post size down a little. I'm sure you could get your point across in fewer words.

It's good to hear differing opinions as they can change your own but I've heard enough from the Moyes supporters this season.

I've been calling for his head since November only to change my mind several times based on posts like yours. I've never known a United without Fergie so I thought I'd listen to those who have or those who have experienced similar with other teams.

I thought things will get better once key players come back and once Moyes figures out his best team. Then the signing of Mata. In fact things have got worse.

Not anymore though. It's blatantly obvious that Moyes is the main issue at the club at the moment and I'll be sticking to my guns on wanting him gone asap.

KH25

No

Last night was the last straw for me. I've said all season that I wanted to see Moyes succeed. The Palace game had some positive signs but last night just went back to the same old useless system. Playing 2 wingers who are laughably poor and replacing Fellaini with Cleverley. As much as I don't want to say it, Moyes is not good enough for this club.

TheDoc

paulbok wrote: »

“That is what our training sessions will be about as opposed to, ‘Here is what they are going to do to hurt us and this is what we are going to do to defend against them’.

If Moyes was at least getting this part right, it would be something, but there is no plan/shape to the defence or the attack.

I'd take that sort of stuff with a pinch of salt to be honest. Martinez is just as easily criticised in other quarters as not having a breeze how to organise a defence.

Managers have coaches and coaching staff for a reason. Considering when Moyes got Everton, they were a bucket of ****e nearly relegated, it makes sense that he focused on ensuring the team were hard to beat first.

Silly to try form an overview based of an interview with a player who is obviously going to paint his manager in a good light, while all is well at their respective club. You can just as easily search google and find massively supportive comments from players on Moyes.

Grasping at anything these days to use ammunition against Moyes. Focus on United, there appears to be plenty of bullets there to use.

I just wish we got more of an insight into whats being done or said behind the scenes. You'd hear Ferguson tell cameras that the team were ****e, or the odd time when things needed a lift you'd hear a player say how they got bollocked or something. Maybe MOyes doesn't wants to keep it all inhouse, but its alienating fans aswell.

I want to know that hes roaring so much at the squad that the players are being made felt embarrased and disgraceful, and that they fully appreciate how rotten they are performing.

I somehow doubt the stuff he feeds the cameras is what is being said in the dressing room, if so, my support would be slipping. Doesn't matter if these are modern football millionaires or not, when players are playing ****e, you let them know about it.

IvySlayer

No

If Klopp had this start, I would not be calling for his head. He knows what it takes to transition a club to attacking football and build a winning squad.

Hococop

No

ericzeking wrote: »

You do realise Klopp has been relegated and took quite a while to get going with Dortmund...

it should also be noted the team he managed were in the second division and finished 14th when he took over got them promoted after 3 seasons kept them up for two seasons before they got relegated the next season

BloodBath

No

TheDoc wrote: »

I'd take that sort of stuff with a pinch of salt to be honest. Martinez is just as easily criticised in other quarters as not having a breeze how to organise a defence.

Managers have coaches and coaching staff for a reason. Considering when Moyes got Everton, they were a bucket of ****e nearly relegated, it makes sense that he focused on ensuring the team were hard to beat first.

Silly to try form an overview based of an interview with a player who is obviously going to paint his manager in a good light, while all is well at their respective club. You can just as easily search google and find massively supportive comments from players on Moyes.

Grasping at anything these days to use ammunition against Moyes. Focus on United, there appears to be plenty of bullets there to use.

I just wish we got more of an insight into whats being done or said behind the scenes. You'd hear Ferguson tell cameras that the team were ****e, or the odd time when things needed a lift you'd hear a player say how they got bollocked or something. Maybe MOyes doesn't wants to keep it all inhouse, but its alienating fans aswell.

I want to know that hes roaring so much at the squad that the players are being made felt embarrased and disgraceful, and that they fully appreciate how rotten they are performing.

I somehow doubt the stuff he feeds the cameras is what is being said in the dressing room, if so, my support would be slipping. Doesn't matter if these are modern football millionaires or not, when players are playing ****e, you let them know about it.

He's obviously not bollocking anyone. He doesn't even drop under performing players. How can anyone have any respect for him? He's a negative defensive manager that belongs with a mid table team. Not Manchester United.

Who is coaching our attacks now? Moyes? Neville?

Hococop

No

IvySlayer wrote: »

If Klopp had this start, I would not be calling for his head. He knows what it takes to transition a club to attacking football and build a winning squad.

it also helps when he has a number of titles to his name aswell

TheDoc

adox wrote: »

As much as I love Ferguson and wish he was still in charge of the team, it does the club and the players a dis service to say that it was all down to Ferguson that they won titles. Sure Ferguson I`m sure got that little bit extra out the squad that few if any other managers could get. You accuse myself and like minded people of ignoring or omitting this point, which is simply not true. I havent seen anybody since the summer on here, state that Moyes should repeat the feat of Ferguson last year. In fact most if not everybody on here accepted that Utd wouldnt be challenging for the league this season and would most likely have to settle for a top four place.

The thing that you think I am doing, ignoring Fergusons influence and ability to get that extra out of players, is the exact thing you are doing at the opposite end. You are hugely overvaluing his ability to get extra out of a group of players and a squad. If you think that the brand of football, the results and place in the league is where this squad of players should truely be, then there is no talking to you tbh.

No one expected Moyes to come in and just continue what Ferguson had accomplished but at the same time no one, I would guess, expected the **** storm that has ensued since he took over. The fact that Woodward and the board as you elude, thought that the squad was fine and then after Christmas decided that it was poorer than they thought, in a way is very worrying. It implies that they think it is the quality of the squad and not the manager that is the major problem.

The near mythical abilities of Ferguson to get so much extra out of players is re writing history and the sort of ****e that abus actually come out with, to convince themselves that Utd never really were "that" good and it was only because they had Ferguson that they achieved anything. To hear it from Utd fans is even more galling.

As I said at the start, I love Ferguson and dont under estimate the effect he had on the club and what he did for it,but at the same time reality checks are needed.

I totally get what you are saying, but my point was linking to the comments from Gill before the retirement was announced. That the club were looking for someone who would not disassemble the squad and would use it to mount title challenges while the new man bedded in.

My point of Fergusons influence is related directly to the current squad. Their performance last year was grossly over estimated by the club who felt it did not require major work to ensure continued success.

That message and realisation has changed, as confirmed by Woodward's announcement to shareholders.

While obviously Fergusons management was a critical component to our success, it wasn't just his ability to have players overextend their capabilities and limiations. We had fantastic players and played some sensational football.

Just wanted to clarify my points in relation to Fergusons influence of extracting every inch of ability, was in relation to last seasons squad. It covered and masked the fact this squad needed work imo. And in the opinion of the club itseems.

The_Kew_Tour

No

You see I dont like sacking a manager after 9 months

But......................

When you won the league last season by 11 points
When you have 5 players that started last night that have CL medal and played 2 more finals.
When you get knocked out of cup at Home to Swansea
When you have lost league cup over 2 matches to a team that had 2 former players who were not seen good enough for us anymore
When you draw at home 2-2 to a team(and panic) that Hull beat 6-0

along with fact...............

We have conceded late Goals to Cardiff
WBA
Southampton
Fulham
Sunderland

I cant remember scoring a goal in last 10 minutes of a game that was of big importance

and here is the real tough bit...........

We are not sitting here in February talking about being out of the league
We are not even talking about getting CL football
We are not even talking about a League Cup final
We not even talking about next round of FA Cup
we are not even confident of Europa league
and......we are as good as out of European Cup.

We are talking about can we catch Everton or the mighty Spurs(the biggest
bottlers in PL)

This is the level we have come to. This is the level in which Moyes has manged to bring us too.

The level of mighty Newcastle. This is now the level we are at.

From being Champions to this.

You have to give Moyes credit. How in Gods name he has managed it im not sure. It took some calamity.

KH25

No

BloodBath wrote: »

He's obviously not bollocking anyone. He doesn't even drop under performing players. How can anyone have any respect for him? He's a negative defensive manager that belongs with a mid table team. Not Manchester United.

This part I have to agree with. He has given Valencia, Cleverley and Young far too many opportunities, yet the likes of Kagawa are barely getting a look in.

Pro. F

No

adox wrote: »

As much as I love Ferguson and wish he was still in charge of the team, it does the club and the players a dis service to say that it was all down to Ferguson that they won titles. Sure Ferguson I`m sure got that little bit extra out the squad that few if any other managers could get. You accuse myself and like minded people of ignoring or omitting this point, which is simply not true. I havent seen anybody since the summer on here, state that Moyes should repeat the feat of Ferguson last year. In fact most if not everybody on here accepted that Utd wouldnt be challenging for the league this season and would most likely have to settle for a top four place.

The thing that you think I am doing, ignoring Fergusons influence and ability to get that extra out of players, is the exact thing you are doing at the opposite end. You are hugely overvaluing his ability to get extra out of a group of players and a squad. If you think that the brand of football, the results and place in the league is where this squad of players should truely be, then there is no talking to you tbh.

No one expected Moyes to come in and just continue what Ferguson had accomplished but at the same time no one, I would guess, expected the **** storm that has ensued since he took over. The fact that Woodward and the board as you elude, thought that the squad was fine and then after Christmas decided that it was poorer than they thought, in a way is very worrying. It implies that they think it is the quality of the squad and not the manager that is the major problem.

The near mythical abilities of Ferguson to get so much extra out of players is re writing history and the sort of ****e that abus actually come out with, to convince themselves that Utd never really were "that" good and it was only because they had Ferguson that they achieved anything. To hear it from Utd fans is even more galling.

As I said at the start, I love Ferguson and dont under estimate the effect he had on the club and what he did for it,but at the same time reality checks are needed.

IIrc TheDoc has said previously that he would accept anything, no matter how bad, for three seasons as long as Moyes didn't get the team relegated. Only after that period of time would he question Moyes' position.

goodolegill

No

i just want Klopp now becuz he has shown the winning mentality needed and has built an aura
Players will automatically respect him, Moyes has been around the epl corridors for so long in a minor
role that the players in the top bracket cant adjust to him now being king....

the positives for Klopp
Plays an attracting breed of football
Would make it easier to get gundogan
Any pay off for moyes will be limited with the loss we would of made on Kagawa

bucketybuck

No

TheDoc wrote: »

What alternatives is there?

Fellaini coming back from injury, obviously felt another game was too much for him.

Who plays CM alongside Carrick, if not Cleverly?

Who plays wide right if not Valencia?
Mata cuptied and Januzaj not eligible for the champions league snior squad at this time.

Oh come off it, what alternatives? Is that a serious question?

Another game too much for Felliani? The thing Felliani needs more than anything is gametime, and considering we don't have a game for another ten days just what is he saving him for?

Who plays wide right? Accepting that we even need to play a wide right winger we sill have Young and Januzaj able to play there.

If you think for one second that United had no alternative but to play Cleverley and Valencia last night then I don't know what to tell you. The fact is, those two spoofers have been so bad this season that we didn't even need good alternatives, we just needed players that wouldn't be totally inept, and we had those available at least.

onemorechance

2 feckin nil. Not even an away goal. This can mean only one thing, United are going to win the second leg 3-1!

TheDoc

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

You see I dont like sacking a manager after 9 months

But......................
.

You have to give Moyes credit. How in Gods name he has managed it im not sure. It took some calamity.

Really good post, and it makes me sit back and go " wow, why do you bother defending this guy"

And it becomes even harder and harder to find the positives and put any sort of case of defence together.

If I'm honest in my heart while it's somewhat easy for me to keep mentioning various things, and wait until the summer, if things continue to go the way they are with bad performances and the likes, I won't have a defence left.

I was much more stand hearty earlier in the year, before the christmas period. That's when I thought we would make ground. I've been conflicted since then but felt I needed to stick with my gut.

But a part of me feels it won't be long before I'll have to concede and join the calls for his removal. It's not pigheaded-ness on my behalf, and like I said not out of some pure mentalness, it's just trying to find/make sense out of what has been on reflection, chaos.

Macca07

The worst thing about it is that we have to wait until the 8th March before seeing them trying to make up for last nights performance, away to the mighty WBA, who beat us at home.

That is followed by a home game against Liverpool, the 2nd leg against Olympiakos, an away game against West Ham, and a home game against City.

The way we played last night, I am expecting nothing from any of those games.

After that, could anyone really turn around and defend Moyes?

TheDoc

Pro. F wrote: »

IIrc TheDoc has said previously that he would accept anything, no matter how bad, for three seasons as long as Moyes didn't get the team relegated. Only after that period of time would he question Moyes' position.

I can't recall specifically, but I might have made that comment earlier in the season when it looked like a blip. I never envisaged anything like this. I remember making a post about how we could make up the ground during the christmas break. That we had the squad experience, and a manager experienced, in the winter period that could capitalise.

And now that it has come to pass I don't think the club can afford to maintain this sort of performance or standard for three years.

So I would definitly hold my hands up on that, and retract it as a rubbish comment to make. (Then again glory of hindsight)

I don't think I fully expected or even contemplated us not being in the top 4 ( still can't to be fair if I'm honest).

I don't think a re-occurance of this season thus far could be accepted next year, (no question)and if it's still woeful by October/November then there is really no option.

Your Airbag

One of the worst parts of this whole thing is that Liverpool are flying when we are tepid.

I hope to fcuk someone beats them to fourth.

portcrap

TheDoc wrote: »

Really good post, and it makes me sit back and go " wow, why do you bother defending this guy"

And it becomes even harder and harder to find the positives and put any sort of case of defence together.

If I'm honest in my heart while it's somewhat easy for me to keep mentioning various things, and wait until the summer, if things continue to go the way they are with bad performances and the likes, I won't have a defence left.

I was much more stand hearty earlier in the year, before the christmas period. That's when I thought we would make ground. I've been conflicted since then but felt I needed to stick with my gut.

But a part of me feels it won't be long before I'll have to concede and join the calls for his removal. It's not pigheaded-ness on my behalf, and like I said not out of some pure mentalness, it's just trying to find/make sense out of what has been on reflection, chaos.

This.

Absolutely agree. Im in the same boat. Starting to feel like a creationist arguing with richard dawkins, relying completely on blind faith, with increasingly little evidence to back up why i think moyes is the man for the job.

bullvine

No

Your Airbag wrote: »

One of the worst parts of this whole thing is that Liverpool are flying when we are tepid.

I hope to fcuk someone beats them to fourth.

This is part of the problem actually, looks like around 74 points for fourth place which seems a hell of a lot going on previous years.

The_Kew_Tour

No

Your Airbag wrote: »

One of the worst parts of this whole thing is that Liverpool are flying when we are tepid.

I hope to fcuk someone beats them to fourth.

Everton or Spurs?

It aint going to happen.

They will get top 3 imo.

spiralism

No

That could have been the worst United performance i witnessed in my lifetime. This **** has to stop, it's infuriating how bad we've become and Moyes simply HAS to go for this. It's all his fault

TheDoc

Your Airbag wrote: »

One of the worst parts of this whole thing is that Liverpool are flying when we are tepid.

I hope to fcuk someone beats them to fourth.

I think there is some lessons to be learned from Rodgers. He came in high and mighty with his "philosophy" of possesion football, and was riding a wave of his praise from the UK media kissing his arse, forgetting about Martinez essentially paving the way for him.

It fell flat on it's face to be fair, it wasn't working. And then Rodgers changed it up. He didn't change his philosophy, as I said before that word is bolloxology of the finest in football, he changed his tactics. He played to their strengths and in fairness its the first time I can stomach watching Liverpool since Torres was tearing it up.

He knew it was rubbish, it wasnt working and went against his self proclaimed prophecy and starting playing ball that will win matches. It's no co-incidence they are where they are.

Although I'd somewhat agree in a sense I simply wouldn't be able to deal wit hthe abuse coming my pool friends, who seemingly found a way to get under my skin about stuff when they were languishing mid table and we were winning leagues.

This is going to be tough.

Pro. F

No

TheDoc wrote: »

I can't recall specifically, but I might have made that comment earlier in the season when it looked like a blip. I never envisaged anything like this. I remember making a post about how we could make up the ground during the christmas break. That we had the squad experience, and a manager experienced, in the winter period that could capitalise.

And now that it has come to pass I don't think the club can afford to maintain this sort of performance or standard for three years.

So I would definitly hold my hands up on that, and retract it as a rubbish comment to make. (Then again glory of hindsight)

I don't think I fully expected or even contemplated us not being in the top 4 ( still can't to be fair if I'm honest).

I don't think a re-occurance of this season thus far could be accepted next year, (no question)and if it's still woeful by October/November then there is really no option.

Fair enough. It could have just been an off hand comment, or I could be misremembering. If you aren't sticking by that now and you are giving Moyes until October/November, that makes a lot more sense.

onemorechance

It seems like there have been a flood of bets on Moyes to be sacked.

"Rumours of an imminent announcement by the struggling Premier League champions to the New York Stock Exchange prompted a rash of bets that Moyes would be the next top-flight boss to quit."

Yahoo! Eurosport

He's odds on with most bookies. Can't find a quote from the club, but the papers are saying that "Moyes retains the full support of the club".

Next Manager To Leave Post:

#1 David Moyes

SkyBet 8/11
BetVictor 4/5
PaddyPower 1
Stan James 8/11
Ladbrokes 5/6
Coral 6/4
William Hill 6/5
Betway 7/4
Betfair 13/5

#2 Pepe Mel

#3 No manager to leave

#4 Chris Hughton

#5 Ole

FatherTed

TheDoc wrote: »

I was under the impression that he is in the under age squad, where there is a specific circumstance of timeframe the player can be promoted to the senior squad. It's very confusing to be honest, some stuff I read pre-match last night indicated he wasn't eligible, some post match stuff asking where was he since he was eligible.

I'm well confused over it and just went with the gut feeling he wasn't eligible, as it makes no sense to not have him in the squad.

He played against Shakhtar in December.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1wY29MoJvo
So why would he not be eligible now?

IITYWYBMAD

TheDoc wrote: »

Really good post, and it makes me sit back and go " wow, why do you bother defending this guy"

And it becomes even harder and harder to find the positives and put any sort of case of defence together.

If I'm honest in my heart while it's somewhat easy for me to keep mentioning various things, and wait until the summer, if things continue to go the way they are with bad performances and the likes, I won't have a defence left.

I was much more stand hearty earlier in the year, before the christmas period. That's when I thought we would make ground. I've been conflicted since then but felt I needed to stick with my gut.

But a part of me feels it won't be long before I'll have to concede and join the calls for his removal. It's not pigheaded-ness on my behalf, and like I said not out of some pure mentalness, it's just trying to find/make sense out of what has been on reflection, chaos.

If ever there was a case for his removal, his team selection last night was it.

TheDoc

Pro. F wrote: »

Fair enough. It could have just been an off hand comment, or I could be misremembering. If you aren't sticking by that now and you are giving Moyes until October/November, that makes a lot more sense.

I think you were 100% correct, I can recall me definitely saying that I'd stick with Moyes for three years no matter what and making the relegation comment. Might have come up during the first rumblings of "moyes out" when I might have been discussing how I wouldn't like to become like a Chelsea, manager merry go round, with success coming the odd time.

But I definitely would recant now, and say there is no way I could justify this level for three years. Genuinely couldn't fathom us being where we are. I knew it would be tough, I knew there would be slipups. But though the experience in the club and squad would carry through. I genuinely thought third at worst.

TheDoc

FatherTed wrote: »

He played against Shakhtar in December.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1wY29MoJvo
So why would he not be eligible now?

Cheers man, seems I got my wires crossed. I remember it being a topic of discussion early in the campaign and there was some contradictory reports pre-match last night stating why he was ommited. But some of the guys here cleared it up for me.

Comments I've read today from Moyes being queried was that he wanted to give Cleverly game time, and decided on it weeks ago.

Don't know if legit quote or not, read it on international business weekly website
If it's legit, well like I said, it's becoming harder and harder

bangkok

Real Madrids champions league record since 2003......

2003 - Champions League Semi-Final
2004 - Champions League Quarter-Final
2005 - Champions League 2nd Round
2006 - Champions League 2nd Round
2007 - Champions League 2nd Round
2008 - Champions League 2nd Round
2009 - Champions League 2nd Round
2010 - Champions League 2nd Round
2011 - Champions League Semi-Final
2012 - Champions League Semi-Final
2013 - Champions League Semi-Final

actually a terrible record

They have sacked coach after coach in order to win "la decima"....

I still think moyes has to be given a chance in order to prove himself....do not forget the super job he did with everton for 10 years. you do not become a bad coach overnight

RayCon

^ ... I agree ... Moyes must stay

TheTownie

No

At what point do people think Old Trafford would turn against Moyes?

bangkok

TheTownie wrote: »

At what point do people think Old Trafford would turn against Moyes?

if after next summer he buys 4-5 players and they are not top 3-4 near xmas....

The_Kew_Tour

No

No disrespect, but I could not give a toss about Real or Barca or Bayern for that matter.

Just cause they have not won CL in while does not mean we should drop our standards or think its acceptable.

ManOnFire

Dunno if its been said but rumours of Evra being in London with Inter reps. I no yere expecting him to leave anyway but just thought id pop it up, comes from tuttomercato

Macca07

bangkok wrote: »

I still think moyes has to be given a chance in order to prove himself....do not forget the super job he did with everton for 10 years. you do not become a bad coach overnight

No, you don't, but when you try to implement a tactic on a team and players that it clearly doesn't suit, you do become a bad coach, and that's what is happening for most of the season.

The Palace game was a change, and I actually think he tried to implement that last night, but with Clev, Young and Val. Val was playing on the inside-right most of the game, with Smalling overlapping, which is absolutely ridiculous. The one player in the whole squad that can only play one position with one game plan and he tried to change it. Then there is Tom Cleverly, why oh why is he still getting a game. I'd actually would have preferred Giggs last night.

The_Kew_Tour

No

TheTownie wrote: »

At what point do people think Old Trafford would turn against Moyes?

Getting stuffed by Liverpool at OT would really show imo.

Vic Vinegar

TheTownie wrote: »

At what point do people think Old Trafford would turn against Moyes?

This doesn't look good!



Pretty soon if that's anything to go by!

onemorechance

TheTownie wrote: »

At what point do people think Old Trafford would turn against Moyes?

Signing Kross and starting with Cleverley instead! :pac:

portcrap

On a lighter note at least the jokes are good:

Whats the difference between olivia newton john and David Moyes?
Olivia didnt get f**ked in Greece.

ABU favourite drink is a David Moyes - scotch on the rocks.

TheDoc

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

No disrespect, but I could not give a toss about Real or Barca or Bayern for that matter.

Just cause they have not won CL in while does not mean we should drop our standards or think its acceptable.

Point he might be making there is that Madrid just kept sacking coaches. It's probable if they gave some time to one of the many talented men they had at the helm, they could have won their 10th, if not more.

At the same time completely different animal here, I can only remember Barca having a massive dip in stature after a replacement of management, when Rijkaard first came in they were bototm half of the table six months into his reign.

Although I guess there is also a point there as to what happened when the board held strong against the fans calling for his sacking...

bangkok

the way Liverpool are playing at the moment and the way we are playing we will get hammered at OT although form usually goes out the window in them games...

secman

No

Unfortunately Fergie got Moyes wrong, he obviously thought he was better than he is proving to be, he is breaking all the wrong records............. He looks so much under pressure that he simply has run out of ideas, excuses and more importantly seems to have lost a section of the dressing room, I don't believe that the squad believe in him. Not that Fergie left him a squad in any great shape either.... To not have replaced those 2 CM (Keane & Scholes) in all those years is a joke, to not have a replacement RF and constantly having to play a centre half /winger is farsical. Remember when Fergie took over, he immediately sought out a left full and signed Denis irwin as he said it was ridicoulus that a club of United's stature did not have a proper left full............. . Can't say i would trust Moyes with 150M to 200M which is probably required, to go and get good United quality players, his track record thus far would suggest NO WAY.
Moyes is suffering from "RABITT in headlights" syndrome.........
BTW i am old enough to remember offering up Holy Communion that we would win any kind of trophy !
Secman

Your Airbag

I've said I'd give Moyes two season but enough time to build a team of his own.

He hasn't done that yet.

Has he had the chance? Yes, two windows which he didn't take full advantage of.

For me the first window where he bid for some good players and got one was not too worrying. He wanted to assess who he had first hand. Its said this is why he didn't move for Ozil because he wanted to see how Kagawa would fair. We got Fellaini in the end.

In the Second window we got Mata. After the months in between window one and two a LB should have been a priority. No stories leaked about Coentrao but Madrid never got a replacement for him so I don't think they would have sold so Moyes went for Shaw and it didn't happen. We can assume he doesn't rate Kagawa either based on the Mata purchase.

I've always said I'd give him time to build a team of his own. The summer window is now massive. A minimum of 4 players are needed. 6 would be good.

Its important he gets in the right players regardless of whether he is going to stay or not. If he dithers in the window he should go. If he gets bad players it will be a disaster even after he goes. If he gets good players and still has the poor style of play and tactics than he can go early into next season.

If gets the players he wants he must impose a better style. Yes his teams selections and how he has used the players have been poor but they are not players he may have picked at Everton. Of course he should have done better with them regardless.

He is making it hard, there is still some time I'm willing to give him but I'm one of the few left and he is making it hard.