Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod Warning: Post #7871

Hitchens

Sky Bet currently have Moyes at 5/6 to go next ahead of West Brom’s Pepe Mel.

It was so frustrating to see that line up yesterday after the change of tactics at the weekend. You could see the players were more comfortable and confident playing neat one touches in the centre against Palace. It wasn't smooth or incredibly frequent but you could see it was progress and they were enjoying their football.
Then yesterday they ended up playing that bollox again, I'm finding it hard to see the reasoning for such changes. Finding it hard to watch that uninspired crap. RVP got no service and was right to be pissed off.

Blatter

No

TheTownie wrote: »

At what point do people think Old Trafford would turn against Moyes?

From the online polls on Red Issue and Redcafe, ~90% of fans think he should be sacked. Even on here, that figure would be similar.

You would have to think that'd be a reasonable representation of what the majority of Utd fans and match going fans think.

I think you'll see the atmosphere in the stadium begin to change fairly significantly in the next home game. Not quite filled with Moyes out banners and chants to get rid of him out of respect of Ferguson and even Moyes himself (he's a fairly likable man when all is said and done, not really his fault he's not up to the job) but there will be clear feelings of unrest. Not that it hasn't happened already, but it will be more unambiguous now.

I could see that 'chosen one' banner taken down fairly lively, which would be duly noted.

Macca07

I'm going to use Bayern as an example here. They won all around them last season, destroying Barca and any other team in there way. Jupp Heynckes announced that he was retiring, and they brought in one of the best young managers in the game, Guardiola, and 2 outstanding players in Thiago and Goetze.

United, won their 20th PL title by 11 points, have been in the top two for the past 7 years, CL football every season bar 1, bring in Moyes, a manager that has never won a major trophy, and signed Fellaini on the last minute of the summer transfer windows. A transfer that probably could've been done in the first week of the job.

Two teams that had successful seasons and successful managers, both retiring, and a tough job to come into. Just look at the difference.

TheTownie

No

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Getting stuffed by Liverpool at OT would really show imo.

Imagine if that happened, at the final whistle OT bursts into boos... Fergie stands up... the place goes silent... and gives us his decision...



You would hear the loudest roar for many a year !

paulbok

No

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

along with fact...............

We have conceded late Goals to Cardiff
WBA
Southampton
Fulham
Sunderland

We are talking about can we catch Everton or the mighty Spurs(the biggest
bottlers in PL)

This is the level we have come to. This is the level in which Moyes has manged to bring us too.

The level of mighty Newcastle. This is now the level we are at.

From being Champions to this.

You have to give Moyes credit. How in Gods name he has managed it im not sure. It took some calamity.

Absolutely, at this stage it is down to Moyes as to how bad we are.
We all agree that the team needs an overhaul, but as bad as the players that need to be replaced are (Cleverly, Rio, Evra etc,) are still better that those team highlighted above (& Olympiakos) are and should be beating them 4 out of 5 times.

This season is now a shambles & a write off.
The only thing we have left to play for is trying to beat Liverpool in a few weeks, to try and dent their ambitions.
So well done Moyes, we have a pi$$ poor, petty, mid-table team 'cup final' to look forward to on March 16th.

CSF

No

bangkok wrote: »

Real Madrids champions league record since 2003......

2003 - Champions League Semi-Final
2004 - Champions League Quarter-Final
2005 - Champions League 2nd Round
2006 - Champions League 2nd Round
2007 - Champions League 2nd Round
2008 - Champions League 2nd Round
2009 - Champions League 2nd Round
2010 - Champions League 2nd Round
2011 - Champions League Semi-Final
2012 - Champions League Semi-Final
2013 - Champions League Semi-Final

actually a terrible record

They have sacked coach after coach in order to win "la decima"....

I still think moyes has to be given a chance in order to prove himself....do not forget the super job he did with everton for 10 years. you do not become a bad coach overnight

Oh right, well if one team haven't done well in the Champions League over the last 10 years then Moyes definitely needs more time.

lordgoat

No

Not that too many of you shall miss me but i'll be off line for the next 2weeks or so, I'll be able to read and post a little but i'm hoping after the 2 weeks there's be something to cheer about. No idea what...

Gwan united.

adox

No

CSF wrote: »

Oh right, well if one team haven't done well in the Champions League over the last 10 years then Moyes definitely needs more time.

Also conveniently omitted the fact that they were still challenging for the league in those years.

Iused2likebusts

No

Blatter wrote: »

From the online polls on Red Issue and Redcafe, ~90% of fans think he should be sacked. Even on here, that figure would be similar.

You would have to think that'd be a reasonable representation of what the majority of Utd fans and match going fans think.

I think you'll see the atmosphere in the stadium begin to change fairly significantly in the next home game. Not quite filled with Moyes out banners and chants to get rid of him out of respect of Ferguson and even Moyes himself (he's a fairly likable man when all is said and done, not really his fault he's not up to the job) but there will be clear feelings of unrest. Not that it hasn't happened already, but it will be more unambiguous now.

I could see that 'chosen one' banner taken down fairly lively, which would be duly noted.

It wouldnt surprise me if the opposition fans in your next home game bring their own "chosen one " banner with them.

Macca07

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

It wouldnt surprise me if the opposition fans in your next home game bring their own "chosen one " banner with them.

They can take the banner and him for all I care...

n32

For me the most disappointing thing about last night was the fact that on Saturday we played with a different style of play and looked a far better team. Eventhough Mata was ineligible last night he could have been replaced by Kagawa and we could have played in the same style as the weekend. Fellaini looked to be coming into form and made a huge difference to Carrick but Moyes goes and picks Cleverley who brings Carricks game down anytime he plays with him.
I d love to know what went through Moyes head when it came to picking last nights team. As someone said here last night, maybe he was using the reserves on Saturday to give Cleverley, Young and Valencia a rest!!!
I dread to think how low we will go if Moyes stays in the job long term. Even if he stays until Christmas, what player will want to come and play for us with no CL and his awful style of play?

v3ttel

TheTownie wrote: »

At what point do people think Old Trafford would turn against Moyes?

Losing to Liverpool, not overturning the deficit in the second leg to Olympiacos, and losing to City would do it.

Your Airbag wrote: »

He is making it hard, there is still some time I'm willing to give him but I'm one of the few left and he is making it hard.

This. I think last night was a turning point. I've been willing to give him time, but with team selections and gutless abject performances like last night it's making it nigh on impossible to logically hold the "give him time" view. Losing isn't a big deal, but losing showing no fighting spirit or desire is not like MUFC.

Mata's signing, Rooney & RVP returning, and we are still in utterly terrible form.

There are minimum standards at United, 7th in the league, and knocked out by Sunderland, Swansea, Olympiacos (the kindest draw we could have possibly gotten), and having our season over by the start of March is indefensible.

TheDoc

I think we know the reason for the odds being slashed was the NYSE getting some false information which they started to circulate.

a number of media outlets specifically indicated this rumour stemming from the NYSE, caused massive influx of bets and odds to be slashed.

I don't think its because of anything other then this, which the club have already squashed when contacted by UK outlets saying they have no idea where the NYSE got that information, and the club have no intention of removing Moyes.

I'm not taking it as a sign somethings about to happen, it also appears the NYSE rumours came from some trader who posted it to his Twitter account. Could just as easily being a lad looking to manipulate stocks. I'd imagine the lad who posted it was swiftly fired

paulbok

No

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Getting stuffed by Liverpool at OT would really show imo.

If results go their way the weekend before, then getting stuffed by Liverpool & watching them go top of the table with 10 games or so left would have OT in a fury.

onemorechance

Blatter wrote: »

...

I could see that 'chosen one' banner taken down fairly lively, which would be duly noted.

Interesting point; if that banner was taken down, it would make OT a very uncomfortable place for Moyes, i.e. the fans 'officially' no longer support you.

UnitedIrishman

No

If we lose to Liverpool at home there isn't a snowballs chance in hell that the fans will remain behind Moyes. And once you lose the fans that's it. You very, very rarely get them back on your side.

Christ if I see them do the double over us and get CL spot, a man will have to get paralytic that Sunday.

UnitedIrishman

No

onemorechance wrote: »

Interesting point; if that banner was taken down, it would make OT a very uncomfortable place for Moyes, i.e. the fans 'officially' no longer support you.

It was the most retarded banner to be ever put up in OT anyways. You earn your spot up there.

TheDoc

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

It was the most retarded banner to be ever put up in OT anyways. You earn your spot up there.

Was a nice touch I felt to really show support to the new manager coming in, felt it was an understanding by the fans of the task at hand.

Your Airbag

Liverpool have us City, Arsenal and Chelsea all to play soon iirc?

Hopefully we can beat them and play a part in them not getting fourth.

Thats basically all we have left this season.

I was hoping for a glamor tie in the UCL and I still think we can take Olympiakos at home if Moyes picks the right team.

Surely now he must realise that Clev, Young, Val and Rio = equals a shocking display

and Mata, Januzaj, Fellaini = a fighting chance.

Maybe its best we don't get that glamor tie. We could be handed a beating to forget by one of the big boys. A Roma 7-1 type beating.

CSF

No

adox wrote: »

Also conveniently omitted the fact that they were still challenging for the league in those years.

I know, I honestly question what goes through peoples brains sometimes. Like these glaringly ridiculously irrelevant statistics are hardly going to go unquestioned. Was the chap expecting people to be like 'ooh yeah actually that is a good point, Real haven't done that well in the Champions League'

Agueroooo

Your Airbag wrote: »

Liverpool have us City, Arsenal and Chelsea all to play soon iirc?

We have Utd (A), Chelsea (h), City (h), Spurs (h)

no Arsenal

Your Airbag

Your Airbag wrote: »

Liverpool have us City, Arsenal and Chelsea all to play soon iirc?

.

City and Chelsea yes, not Arsenal. Might have been Spurs you were thinking of.

ThunbergsAreGo

Your Airbag wrote: »

and Mata, Januzaj, Fellaini = a fighting chance.

.

Or expulsion for playing a cup tied player

irishfeen

Still behind Moyes here - (don't eat the head off me) :pac: ... I honestly think he is becoming a scapegoat of the players not performing. We have some very average players, players well past their prime and players who never deserved to wear the united shirt in the first place.

I do though think if we loose to Liverpool, don't claw back last nights result and loose to City then he could very well be gone - I really hope not though.

TheDoc

Your Airbag wrote: »

Liverpool have us City, Arsenal and Chelsea all to play soon iirc?

Hopefully we can beat them and play a part in them not getting fourth.

Thats basically all we have left this season.

I was hoping for a glamor tie in the UCL and I still think we can take Olympiakos at home if Moyes picks the right team.

Surely now he must realise that Clev, Young, Val and Rio = equals a shocking display

and Mata, Januzaj, Fellaini = a fighting chance.

Maybe its best we don't get that glamor tie. We could be handed a beating to forget by one of the big boys. A Roma 7-1 type beating.

Liverpool and their fans used to always get riled up for facing us, even when for along time the tie meant very little bar bragging rights. They used to try beat us just to damage tile chances and the likes. Well shoes on the other foot now, beat them and we can dent their top 4 hopes.

If the team isn't fired up to **** for that tie, and is playing at that pedestrian pace, then I probably think it will be the final straw. By all means lose the match, but make sure your coming of that pitch after giving it everything.

UnitedIrishman

No

TheDoc wrote: »

Was a nice touch I felt to really show support to the new manager coming in, felt it was an understanding by the fans of the task at hand.

They aren't meant to be there as a nice touch but rather a reminder of our history as a club and the culture of the city too. They're reserved for club legends and things such as the 'Flowers of Manchester' etc.

v3ttel

Just noticed the "mounted by olympiakos" thread tag and can't help but laugh at it.

Hopefully by some miracle of God we can remove the word "by" from it after the second leg.

Liam O

bucketybuck wrote: »

They have been pathetic, but the Cleverley and Valencia selections were a complete WTF when assessing the manager performance.

Those two have been shocking all season and there were other viable options that Moyes could have went for, but he didn't, he picked two useless players that have been useless all season.

There is little point in being surprised that they were useless again last night, a far more pertinent question is why they were on the field in the first place, and that comes back to David Moyes.


By the way, you might have addressed this later in your post but unfortunately it was the very embodiment of TLDR.

I think he went for CL knockout experience, unfortunately the experienced players have continually let him down this season and have regressed hugely.

Lord TSC

No

irishfeen wrote: »

Still behind Moyes here - (don't eat the head off me) :pac: ... I honestly think he is becoming a scapegoat of the players not performing. We have some very average players, players well past their prime and players who never deserved to wear the united shirt in the first place.

I do though think if we loose to Liverpool, don't claw back last nights result and loose to City then he could very well be gone - I really hope not though.

That's his job though. That comes with the job.

The_Kew_Tour

No

I sure as hell wont be celebrating like we just won the league if we beat Liverpool.

Christ it gets worse.

Like beating Liverpool well makes things ok

No it wont!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This should be when the bulb really turns on to see how much we have fallen.

TheDoc

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

That's his job though. That comes with the job.

They could help him out a little bit by actually completing some passes, the attempted passing last night was terrible, was a purely muck performance.

I'm struggling to link the unforced errors and general rubbish play, to Moyes. I thought the plan he went with was suck in a somewhat toothless Olympiakos and then smash them on the break.

But that requires tempo and precision in possession, both of which were missing.

I don't know maybe because he isn't roaring his head off, people think it's the plan. If we saw Moyes maybe lashing players from the sideline, like Fergie used to do, maybe it would put a bit more onus on the players not carrying out his tsks, rather then it being what he wanted to do in the first place.

Sometimes it looks like he is so bewildered at what he sees, that he doesn't even think shouting will fix it.

TheDoc

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I sure as hell wont be celebrating like we just won the league if we beat Liverpool.

Christ it gets worse.

Like beating Liverpool well makes things ok

No it wont!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This should be when the bulb really turns on to see how much we have fallen.

Yeah I definitly don't want to be in the place of where Liverpool fans were for years, their only "glory" is if they beat us, or if United had a slip.

I think I'd use it more as an indication of is it ture the players have lost faith. If it's strolling around being slack against arguably the biggest tribal rival, then that's probably the sign in bright neon lights.

irishfeen

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

That's his job though. That comes with the job.

Of course and he is taking the heat, just look at Michael Carrick's interview last night - he should be frothing at the mouth over that performance demanding more from himself and his team mates .... it was telling that Roy Keane seemed more upset by that performance then any of the players.

The_Kew_Tour

No

irishfeen wrote: »

Of course and he is taking the heat, just look at Michael Carrick's interview last night - he should be frothing at the mouth over that performance demanding more from himself and his team mates .... it was telling that Roy Keane seemed more upset by that performance then any of the players.

Bingo!

TheDoc

irishfeen wrote: »

.... it was telling that Roy Keane seemed more upset by that performance then any of the players.

Mightn't have hurt Moyes to get him in there. Completely wasted working with Ireland.

Could you IMAGINE if he was in midfield in that game last night.

Sometimes a team needs that, someone who regardless of ability of stature, is going to call up team mates. Tell them they are bollox, and they need to fix it. You wonder if anyone in the dressing room does that, I think not.

I remember a guy in our team at schoolboy was brilliant at it. He wasn't the best, he was a bit of a squad player, but he used to lash into us if we were being ****. And he'd point fingers, call people out and didn't care for confrontation. You'd think it would be a bad thing but he only ever had to do it a few times in a season, and you'd normally see a lift after it

irishfeen

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Bingo!

What I would give for a Roy Keane in his prime to enter that dressing room and tear every single one of them apart - you can be sure if he was captain last night he wouldn't have stood for that type of performance no matter who the manager was.

I also think its telling that Keane did not blame Moyes - he comes from a generation of united players who while playing under Ferguson basically took things into their own hands on the pitch....

TheDoc

irishfeen wrote: »

What I would give for a Roy Keane in his prime to enter that dressing room and tear every single one of them apart - you can be sure if he was captain last night he wouldn't have stood for that type of performance no matter who the manager was.

I also think its telling that Keane did not blame Moyes - he comes from a generation of united players who while playing under Ferguson basically took things into their own hands on the pitch....

He was Ferguson on the pitch. He knew what the manager would accept and what he would not, and also what was acceptable by his own standards. It's a rare and wonderful thing when a squad has that.

Not easily replaceable.

Pro. F

No

This team does not need to be shouted at. The problems this season are not because of lack of effort, commitment, character or skill. The problems are caused by an extremely over rated manager being allowed to implement his negative and inappropriate strategy and tactics on a team who are under pressure to be winning regularly.

irishfeen

TheDoc wrote: »

Mightn't have hurt Moyes to get him in there. Completely wasted working with Ireland.

Could you IMAGINE if he was in midfield in that game last night.

Sometimes a team needs that, someone who regardless of ability of stature, is going to call up team mates. Tell them they are bollox, and they need to fix it. You wonder if anyone in the dressing room does that, I think not.

I remember a guy in our team at schoolboy was brilliant at it. He wasn't the best, he was a bit of a squad player, but he used to lash into us if we were being ****. And he'd point fingers, call people out and didn't care for confrontation. You'd think it would be a bad thing but he only ever had to do it a few times in a season, and you'd normally see a lift after it

Keane would have had to be dragged out of that dressing room last night by security guards - i'd say it would be more then a football boot that would have been flying across the room :pac:

Your Airbag

naughtb4 wrote: »

Or expulsion for playing a cup tied player

Cup tied? Mata?

U wot m8?

but I was talking in general. He went from the good team Saturday to option no2 last night. Swap Mata for Kagawa in for Kagawa in all competitions, yes even the UCL

irishfeen

Pro. F wrote: »

This team does not need to be shouted at. The problems this season are not because of lack of effort, commitment, character or skill. The problems are caused by an extremely over rated manager being allowed to implement his negative and inappropriate strategy and tactics on a team who are under pressure to be winning regularly.

Are you mad in the head? - granted Moyes might be at fault for some things but christ almighty some of them players need to be taken down a peg or two... it might not be popular here but I would rightly fcuk RVP out of it for what he said to dutch television - everything stays in house. He decided to break that rule last night and he had no right to do that.

irishfeen

TheDoc wrote: »

He was Ferguson on the pitch. He knew what the manager would accept and what he would not, and also what was acceptable by his own standards. It's a rare and wonderful thing when a squad has that.

Not easily replaceable.

Yep he was an exceptional player - how could players/united have failed like our current mess with Ferguson on the touch line and Keane on the pitch.... one simple look from either would have ended stuff before they even got back into the dressing room after the game.

The_Kew_Tour

No

The bottom line comes with manager. Simple as that.

But that is not to excuse the performances or gutless performances of players either.

These lads are on 50k+ a week.

Been disheartened and not having faith in manager is one thing. But actually been a scared chicken is another.

Everyone's knows my doubts on Welbeck, but at least he showed lot of fight and heart for 30 minutes or so. At least he tried to make things happen. He ran back few times and tried retrieve the ball he showed a willingness. He went to try look for the ball.

Basically he tried. Thats all I ask.

You still have a duty as a player to give it your all, no matter where you lie with manager.

Some of those players let the club down and the great name too.

You need leaders, you need players standing up when going gets tough.

No excuses for that.

None!!

Son Of A Vidic

goodolegill wrote: »

im confused now, you have been advocating that all managers need time. But Trap was a manager who u didnt have time for - he was an exception because a 60 + year old man couldnt master the language.

You're confused? What is your fixation with Trap? Christ I'm trying to figure out what in God's name he has got to do with Moyes in the United thread. Did you fall over this afternoon and suffer a head trauma? Maybe even a concussion perhaps? Because in almost 5 years in this forum, I have posted 3 posts relating to Trap. Now off to A&E and get someone to check your GCS (Glasgow Coma Scale).

irishfeen

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

The bottom line comes with manager. Simple as that.

But that is not to excuse the performances or gutless performances of players either.

These lads are on 50k+ a week.

Been disheartened and not having faith in manager is one thing. But actually been a scared chicken is another.

Everyone's knows my doubts on Welbeck, but at least he showed lot of fight and heart for 30 minutes or so. At least he tried to make things happen. He ran back few times and tried retrieve the ball he showed a willingness. He went to try look for the ball.

Basically he tried. Thats all I ask.

You still have a duty as a player to give it your all, no matter where you lie with manager.

Some of those players let the club down and the great name too.

You need leaders, you need players standing up when going gets tough.

No excuses for that.

None!!

Usually I agree with that but in this case no - how the fcuk could Moyes have known the mess we find ourselves in - uninterested players who know in the summer they will be out anyway. They don't even seem too bothered about humiliating themselves and the club in England or Europe, 6/7 of the players who started last night know fully well their time at United has come to an end.

Your Airbag

Pro. F wrote: »

This team does not need to be shouted at. The problems this season are not because of lack of effort, commitment, character or skill. The problems are caused by an extremely over rated manager being allowed to implement his negative and inappropriate strategy and tactics on a team who are under pressure to be winning regularly.

Have to disagree. Some of the players are clearly not trying hard enough. As poor as Moyes has been some of the players must shoulder it too.

Evra, Clev, Young, Val, Rio have all been shocking. You can say Moyes should have replaced Evra but a player on the pitch not trying enough is not something I would excuse because he could have been replaced.

If a player knows its his last season or competition was going to be brought he still needs to give it his all. He still gets a wage and owes the club for previous years.

If Clev wasn't picked in MF last night we may not have been as poor? true, but Clev gives the ball away and doesn't try to defend his error, he didn't even try to track the player and we are two down. Moments like that are on the players. Moyes is hardly telling to try lads, you know, if you can be bothered

Also this talk that Moyes "never had the dressing room". What does that crap actually translate too? So some players took a "We preferred Fergie so we won't give as much for you from day one" approach? Well thats lovely isn't it.

Both the manager and some players need to massively buck up. Its not 100% Moyes.

Pro. F

No

TheDoc wrote: »

They could help him out a little bit by actually completing some passes, the attempted passing last night was terrible, was a purely muck performance.

I'm struggling to link the unforced errors and general rubbish play, to Moyes. I thought the plan he went with was suck in a somewhat toothless Olympiakos and then smash them on the break.

But that requires tempo and precision in possession, both of which were missing.

I don't know maybe because he isn't roaring his head off, people think it's the plan. If we saw Moyes maybe lashing players from the sideline, like Fergie used to do, maybe it would put a bit more onus on the players not carrying out his tsks, rather then it being what he wanted to do in the first place.

Sometimes it looks like he is so bewildered at what he sees, that he doesn't even think shouting will fix it.

It really is not hard to come up with some plausible theories for how a manager can effect a team's performance.

adox

No

Keane conveniently forgot to apportion blame to the manager last night if I remember correctly. I'm all for people calling players out for under performing but, and I'd have to watch it again to be sure, my take on it was it was another cheap shot at Ferguson, blaming him for leaving that squad to Moyes.

Pro. F

No

irishfeen wrote: »

Are you mad in the head? - granted Moyes might be at fault for some things but christ almighty some of them players need to be taken down a peg or two... it might not be popular here but I would rightly fcuk RVP out of it for what he said to dutch television - everything stays in house. He decided to break that rule last night and he had no right to do that.

I thought you were prescribing shouting at the players for their performances on the pitch. That would be stupid, when the problem is obviously the manager.

Shouting at RvP for blabbing to the press I would have no problem with.