Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod Warning: Post #7871

Lord TSC

No

Blatter wrote: »

Any evidence/quotes from the last few weeks that indicate Ferguson still has faith in Moyes?

It's a fair point. People need to go back nearly a year for proof of Fergie backing Moyes.

Paully D

Skylinehead wrote: »

CM is an area they need to improve on. Not that Fellaini being injured helped, but his signing was in a position they badly needed.

I agree that the center of midfield is a position they need to improve on, they still do because Fellaini is not good enough in my opinion. Almost £30m for him was laughable in any case.

Is Fellaini a holding player? A more attacking player? Or a box-to-box player? It seems Moyes doesn't even know his best position given how often he changed him between roles at Everton. I would personally say more of a holding player and Fellaini himself says he prefers to play that role, but Carrick is more than sufficient for the vast majority of games in that position.

I think having both Van Persie and Rooney plus Mata doesn't help things either. It's no secret that all three will be playing every week when fit which means they virtually have to go 4-4-2. That means Mata can't play in his proper, most effective position as a number 10 and United are caught between playing both Carrick and Fellaini in 4 man midfield or dropping one. Go to more of a 4-3-3 and you still have Mata out of position plus Rooney.

I'm gone off topic from your response to my post I know so apologies for rambling, but it seems to me like Moyes has bought a couple of players he has liked rather than having any clear idea about systems or tactics in relation to using those players. Look at the difference between what such a successful manager in Mourinho did at Chelsea for example. Mata didn't fit into his system/tactical plans, he didn't get into the team because of that. He did the same with Pepe and Verane at Madrid.

After spending around £65m are they any really better off in terms of their areas of need? I would argue no. It says a lot when Wayne Rooney is being used in central midfield at times.

Demosthenese

No

The Gibzilla wrote: »

I think he's lost the dressing room already. There's no desire out there at all. Look at Cleverly, in a World Cup year - when he should be busting a gut to try and get to Brazil - he has looked far below average, completely disinterested and regressed altogether.
The Ferdinand Tweets, Anderson interview, Hernadez Instagram quote and now RVP's statement suggests that the United dressing room has a poisonous atmosphere at the moment.

Then if he has truly lost the dressingroom, he is a dead man walking. Nobody lasts once the players revolt. Just ask di Canio!

irishfeen

The Gibzilla wrote: »

I think he's lost the dressing room already. There's no desire out there at all. Look at Cleverly, in a World Cup year - when he should be busting a gut to try and get to Brazil - he has looked far below average, completely disinterested and regressed altogether.
The Ferdinand Tweets, Anderson interview, Hernadez Instagram quote and now RVP's statement suggests that the United dressing room has a poisonous atmosphere at the moment.

There is a simple solution to that - pick out those who said something and ask them to leave the dressing room indefinitely... its time for Moyes to grow a pair now and show he will do anything to stay in the job.

The_Kew_Tour

No

I dont think Moyes will get sack before season is over, but he be gone in summer if I was to have bet.

BigBabyTaylor

Headshot wrote: »

You honestly believe Fergie still has faith with Moyes now?

With regards to this part of the post, whether I agree with it or not is another thing, but I would guess that Fergie probably does still think Moyes is the right man, probably out of stubbornness.

Not that its particularly relevant.

BloodBath

No

Your Airbag wrote: »

You have Nani, Fletch and Chico on the sale list and not Cleverly?

Cleverly is on low wages and won't be sold in the summer. There is enough to do. He's fine as a squad player on that money.

Headshot

No

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

It's a fair point. People need to go back nearly a year for proof of Fergie backing Moyes.

It shouldnt be even brought up tbh. Its an argument brought up by posters that cant ****ing debate why we should keep Moyes. You shouldnt take notice of said poster either.

irishfeen

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I dont think Moyes will get sack before season is over, but he be gone in summer if I was to have bet.

If he loses against Liverpool, doesn't turn around the CL result and loses to city I think he is a dead man walking - sadly from my point of view.

Mr.Nice Guy

Blatter wrote: »

Any evidence/quotes from the last few weeks that indicate Ferguson still has faith in Moyes?

If your charge is that Ferguson has lost faith in Moyes shouldn't the burden of proof be on people like yourself to provide the evidence?

I have no reason to believe Ferguson has lost faith in Moyes based on the club, of which Ferguson is a part, publicly backing him in the past 24 hours and numerous times in recent weeks.

Headshot wrote:

You poor thing, you get all upset and make up some fake outrage about personal remarks.

Your post is quite stupid. Your a typical fan I hate, never seen any mistakes Fergie has done. He is human and has made numerous mistakes at utd. You honestly think he would seen this utd team have its worse start since the PL started? Playing some of the worse football the club since the PL started?

You honestly believe Fergie still has faith with Moyes now?

I'm not making up any fake outrage. I enjoy you as a poster here and on the wrestling board and tbh I'm pretty disappointed at the tone of some of your posts towards me. I'll leave it at that.

bucketybuck

No

Paully D wrote: »

Is Fellaini a holding player? A more attacking player? Or a box-to-box player?

For our biggest game of the season he was a bench player. Figure that one out.

Richard Hillman

No

I think people are making way too much of RVPs comments.

Its very hard to explain via text but as I striker I see this as something normal to say. A lot of the time you get "Non finishers" occupying the positions where the CF should be. It can be very frustrating when you are moving around in the box and somebody is occupying your preferred area.

It is not really a criticism of other players. The other players are just too eager to get into a goal scoring position.

The CF positions should be left to RVP and Rooney to occupy. If lads are coming in from midfield and sticking in their area and looking for crosses then RVP and Rooney have to move into less preferred areas.

It is very light constructive criticism. Its no different to saying we need to improve our passing, defend set pieces better, increase the tempo and so on

Joekers

Giles calling for people to give Moyes time is ironic considering what he done to Brian Clough

Paul Tergat

I've still yet too see a legitimate reason for keeping Moyes

irishfeen

Richard Hillman wrote: »

I think people are making way too much of RVPs comments.

Its very hard to explain via text but as I striker I see this as something normal to say. A lot of the time you get "Non finishers" occupying the positions where the CF should be. It can be very frustrating when you are moving around in the box and somebody is occupying your preferred area.

It is not really a criticism of other players. The other players are just too eager to get into a goal scoring position.

The CF positions should be left to RVP and Rooney to occupy. If lads are coming in from midfield and sticking in their area and looking for crosses then RVP and Rooney have to move into less preferred areas.

It is very light constructive criticism. Its no different to saying we need to improve our passing, defend set pieces better, increase the tempo and so on

If he did that under Ferguson he would have got the most unbelievable bollocking, questioning the players and tactics of the manager is utterly disrespectful on every level no matter who is in charge. As I said under Ferguson he might have been lucky to another game for United without at least a public apology.

titan18

No

I'd rather keep Van Persie than Moyes tbh. Sure, it's probably not smart to say things in interviews, especially in a different language, as the rags like to make things up, but you can hardly blame him, he's surrounded by incompetence.

Also, some people criticizing Van Persie for that and then wanting a player like Keane to be there who'd **** everyone out of it if they played like last night alongside him is quite funny

Headshot

No

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

If your charge is that Ferguson has lost faith in Moyes shouldn't the burden of proof be on people like yourself to provide the evidence?

I have no reason to believe Ferguson has lost faith in Moyes based on the club, of which Ferguson is a part, publicly backing him in the past 24 hours and numerous times in recent weeks.



I'm not making up any fake outrage. I enjoy you as a poster here and on the wrestling board and tbh I'm pretty disappointed at the tone of some of your posts towards me. I'll leave it at that.

Because its like Deja Vu with you. Hodgson thread all over again. You like to stir the pot and go against the grain and the funny thing, your always dead wrong.

BTW I dont post in the wrestling forum and havent for some time either, ******* forum

Blatter

No

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

If your charge is that Ferguson has lost faith in Moyes shouldn't the burden of proof be on people like yourself to provide the evidence?

I have no reason to believe Ferguson has lost faith in Moyes based on the club, of which Ferguson is a part, publicly backing him in the past 24 hours and numerous times in recent weeks.

The evidence is glaring if you watch the games. His obvious failings have been discussed in great detail. I don't think it's unreasonable to think there's a good chance that Ferguson, being the intelligent football man he is, has lost faith in Moyes.

And you have plenty of reason to believe, you are either ignoring what you see from the team on the pitch with your very eyes or your evaluation of what has gone on is entirely irrational. IMO of course.

Jesus Wept

What about McClarren?

Your Airbag

Pro. F wrote: »

I agree there is a difference between not trying and under performing. However, I think that under performing can be mistaken for not trying and I think that is what is happening here.

When a manager trains a team badly and sends them out with poor tactics based on an inappropriate strategy, I think the poor performances that result can look like the players aren't trying. You don't agree, that's fair enough.

We agree on very little in football matters and we have discussed this topic and others closely related to it at length before, we've both had our say again now. We still don't agree. Probably best to leave it there.

I can see how its mistaken in an overall team preformance view but thats just blurring things. I highlighted some instances of players not running after a player or ball. The bad training or inappropriate strategy excuse does not cut it. Its simply lack of effort.

Moyes is not telling them not to chase a player or close down a threat, Moyes Everton sides were very hard working

That is not the post that I linked you to.

I did not bold any part of the post. Boards does not allow you to edit other poster's posts.

I did not say that you, or anybody, said that the players don't give a toss because they know Moyes will be gone in the summer.

I got this wrong and will hold my hands up, when you linked the post with my thanks mentioned i took it to mean that. Apologies.

Soups123

Richard Hillman wrote: »

I think people are making way too much of RVPs comments.

Its very hard to explain via text but as I striker I see this as something normal to say. A lot of the time you get "Non finishers" occupying the positions where the CF should be. It can be very frustrating when you are moving around in the box and somebody is occupying your preferred area.

It is not really a criticism of other players. The other players are just too eager to get into a goal scoring position.

The CF positions should be left to RVP and Rooney to occupy. If lads are coming in from midfield and sticking in their area and looking for crosses then RVP and Rooney have to move into less preferred areas.

It is very light constructive criticism. Its no different to saying we need to improve our passing, defend set pieces better, increase the tempo and so on

RVPs comments were said with the intention of blaming others that has no place in the dressing room.

I would have much more respect for Moyes if he stood up yo VP and others and was willing to be judged on his on convictions

I just feel he is trying to keep everyone onside with a nicey nicey approach

Richard Hillman

No

irishfeen wrote: »

If he did that under Ferguson he would have got the most unbelievable bollocking, questioning the players and tactics of the manager is utterly disrespectful on every level no matter who is in charge. As I said under Ferguson he might have been lucky to another game for United without at least a public apology.

No he wouldnt have. It would barely have made the news. Little things are very newsworthy right now.

People have some mad conception that footballers are crazed literally genius's that can launch scathing underhanded attacks with slight comments.

What was the question that was even asked of him? He hardly released a statement to tell the world of this.

irishfeen

titan18 wrote: »

I'd rather keep Van Persie than Moyes tbh. Sure, it's probably not smart to say things in interviews, especially in a different language, as the rags like to make things up, but you can hardly blame him, he's surrounded by incompetence

Its unforgivable, end of - he is a Manchester United player... with that comes a responsibility in itself..... and I quote from the great man himself in his final speech ....

""The players... I wish the players every success in the future. You know how good you are, you know the jersey you're wearing, you know what it means to everyone here and don't ever let yourself down. The expectation is always there"

RVP let himself down last night, no question.

Richard Hillman

No

Soups123 wrote: »

RVPs comments were said with the intention of blaming others that has no place in the dressing room.

I would have much more respect for Moyes if he stood up yo VP and others and was willing to be judged on his on convictions

I just feel he is trying to keep everyone onside with a nicey nicey approach

What was the question that was asked of him to make the comments?

irishfeen

Richard Hillman wrote: »

No he wouldnt have. It would barely have made the news. Little things are very newsworthy right now.

People have some mad conception that footballers are crazed literally genius's that can launch scathing underhanded attacks with slight comments.

What was the question that was even asked of him? He hardly released a statement to tell the world of this.

Bull**** and you know it, anything outside the dressing room was a big no no under SAF.

titan18

No

irishfeen wrote: »

Its unforgivable, end of - he is a Manchester United player... with that comes a responsibility in itself..... and I quote from the great man himself in his final speech ....

""The players... I wish the players every success in the future. You know how good you are, you know the jersey you're wearing, you know what it means to everyone here and don't ever let yourself down. The expectation is always there"

RVP let himself down last night, no question.

Was he wrong in his criticism? Fcuk no. Even though it's been twisted from what he actually said to Dutch TV, and turned into something else by the rags, he was right to say it. He was asked the question, why aren't you dropping deep, and he responded others are moving into my positions and I have to alter my runs.

He said that he didn't want to point the finger at anyone in particular and the whole team was responsible, not just blaming everyone else.

De Gea had the 3rd most passes to him last night with 2. Rooney passed it to him 4 times but two were kick-offs. He's touching the ball less than anyone else including the keepers, he's got a right to be pissed off.

NukaCola

No

BloodBath wrote: »

Ok those sale prices are in Euro. I forgot to convert them but even at that they will be only slightly less so say £50M for the lot.

You need to spend £30m+ these days for a good player. 1/3 of that for those players is not unreasonable.

Still way overvalued. You are also probably happy to offload and there are far better players available for less than your quoted prices, nobody would pay that money......really silly and naive valuations.

Richard Hillman

No

irishfeen wrote: »

Bull**** and you know it, anything outside the dressing room was a big no no under SAF.

What was the question that was asked of Van Persie to give that answer?

Soups123

Richard Hillman wrote: »

What was the question that was asked of him to make the comments?

He was asked about coming deep to collect the ball. He then went on to say players were in his position and in the places he normally makes run. He was clear they were in his positions which is either a go at the tactics or players or both

Jayop

Some of you guys thanked me for the previous entries in the history blog my mates putting together so here's the next log.

http://www.unitedreds.net/xfa-blog-entry/update-4-united-teams-through-the-ages-newton-heath-1896-1897.11/

Brilliant in depth read and I'll keep you updated.

Thanks!

Kerrydude1981

No

I voted yes,I was prepared to give him a chance,but between him and his tactics and under preforming players who have been slack all season and still getting game time then its time for all of them to go together,


I think its a slippery slope the club is on and one that needs to be stopped now soon rather then later.

Whatsisname

No

I've seen it mentioned a few times now and I'll say it again cause I'm not sure everyone realised it, the whole "Anderson interview" where he apparently said lots of players want to leave including Nani never actually happened. He came out and said this himself, its on his instagram.

BloodBath

No

NukaCola wrote: »

Still way overvalued. You are also probably happy to offload and there are far better players available for less than your quoted prices, nobody would pay that money......really silly and naive valuations.

You're talking out of your arse. Name the better players with champions league experience and premier league winning experience that could be got for less.

£10-15M a piece for the likes of Valencia, Young, Nani and Hernandez are spot on valuations. You're living in the past if you think otherwise.

You're the naive one.

irishfeen

titan18 wrote: »

Was he wrong in his criticism? Fcuk no. Even though it's been twisted from what he actually said to Dutch TV, and turned into something else by the rags, he was right to say it. He was asked the question, why aren't you dropping deep, and he responded others are moving into my positions and I have to alter my runs.

He said that he didn't want to point the finger at anyone in particular and the whole team was responsible, not just blaming everyone else.

De Gea had the 3rd most passes to him last night with 2. Rooney passed it to him 4 times but two were kick-offs. He's touching the ball less than anyone else including the keepers, he's got a right to be pissed off.

Well then get on the back of his team mates inside the confines of the dressing room - tell the interviewer that we will all try harder the next time and we will sort out current issues on the training pitch... the very last thing he should have done was say anything on TV about any tactics/problems he thinks we are having - its disrespectful to his manager and team mates.

Your Airbag

Telegraph running a piece about RVPs comments not holding up based on heat maps of RVPs runs and the heat maps of our other forwards. They do little to support his claims, is the angle.

Looks like RVP is getting some backlash for his comments. Rightly so. After a defeat the last thing you should do is criticise your team mates, especially after fluffing a sitter.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/10663883/Manchester-United-striker-Robin-van-Persie-feels-the-heat-with-comments-over-manager-David-Moyess-tactics.html

Guardian have an article about the Glazers backing Moyes to rebuild UTD with the understanding that the loss of SAF and ageing players have caused a lot of changes this year.

The manager's high-tech scouting set-up with its extensive list of possible transfer targets has impressed the owners

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/feb/26/david-moyes-glazer-rebuild-manchester-united?CMP=twt_gu

Pro. F

No

Your Airbag wrote: »

I can see how its mistaken in an overall team preformance view but thats just blurring things. I highlighted some instances of players not running after a player or ball. The bad training or inappropriate strategy excuse does not cut it. Its simply lack of effort.

Moyes is not telling them not to chase a player or close down a threat, Moyes Everton sides were very hard working

Moyes' Everton team had the same types of defensive lapses and the same overall level of effort as this United team are exhibiting now. He has taken a team of multiple champions and made them about as good as his old Everton team were.

Son Of A Vidic

Whatsisname wrote: »

I've seen it mentioned a few times now and I'll say it again cause I'm not sure everyone realised it, the whole "Anderson interview" where he apparently said lots of players want to leave including Nani never actually happened. He came out and said this himself, its on his instagram.

Not surprised, it's prime shít stirring season and we're top of the menu.

Richard Hillman

No

Soups123 wrote: »

He was asked about coming deep to collect the ball. He then went on to say players were in his position and in the places he normally makes run. He was clear they were in his positions which is either a go at the tactics or players or both

I think it is a bit sensationalist to say he was having a go at either the players or the tactics.

Would anybody get remotely offended at somebody on your football team saying you are running into my positions? The media have found the slightest comment and have run with it as some sort of sensational coup. I cant believe people are actually buying into it.

irishfeen

"Moyes has installed a bespoke facility that houses whiteboards, computers, high-definition screens, iPads and other state-of-the-art digital technology at United's training ground. This allows the manager easy access to data on players of all positions, ages and career trajectory from around the world, while also maintaining immediate contact with a global network of scouts"

Sounds fancy

ArmaniJeanss

irishfeen wrote: »

"Moyes has installed a bespoke facility that houses whiteboards, computers, high-definition screens, iPads and other state-of-the-art digital technology at United's training ground. This allows the manager easy access to data on players of all positions, ages and career trajectory from around the world, while also maintaining immediate contact with a global network of scouts"

Sounds fancy

Whiteboards. Lol.

Soups123

Richard Hillman wrote: »

I think it is a bit sensationalist to say he was having a go at either the players or the tactics.

Would anybody get remotely offended at somebody on your football team saying you are running into my positions? The media have found the slightest comment and have run with it as some sort of sensational coup. I cant believe people are actually buying into it.

He said it to the media? He could easily have not raised it and brought it up with Moyes. What benefit does it have airing his greivance in public

irishfeen

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Whiteboards. Lol.

Its like secondary school all over again :pac:

Rayne Wooney

Lads can we just sign Moyes as manager of transfers and get a real manager in for the tactics part because he clearly hasn't a clue what he's doing on that front

Pyjamarama

irishfeen wrote: »

"Moyes has installed a bespoke facility that houses whiteboards, computers, high-definition screens, iPads and other state-of-the-art digital technology at United's training ground. This allows the manager easy access to data on players of all positions, ages and career trajectory from around the world, while also maintaining immediate contact with a global network of scouts"

Sounds fancy

Why not just have a laptop with football manager installed?!? :cool:

Pro. F

No

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

You talk it on a daily basis, high and mighty posts with a tone that says ,"Hey look at me, I sit behind a screen but for some reason I think I'm the Messiah" news flash you ain't. Sure you probably still think cleverly should be a nailed on starter.

I am glad that I have obviously pissed you off so much with my posting. Makes me feel special.

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

So its a lack of confidence that stops you pressing in a game...? NO it's ****ing effort or will to do so. We let a GREEK team boss us the entire game and plenty of the players didn't give a ****, it had nothing to do with confidence.

Also what is this sluggishness you speak of, they are professional athletes who get paid more money in a week than people get paid I a llifetime. They have just been away for a 5 day break if anything they should have been all over the pitch, I assume I can substitute sluggishness for effort...

I see people down the local GAA put in more effort than some players last night.

Of course a lack of confidence would make hold players back from pressing in a game. If forwards don't have confidence that the midfield will support them then they won't press as much. If midfielders don't have confidence that they are in the right positions they won't press as much. If defenders don't have confidence that they will win the ball they won't press as much. That's just a few examples off the top of my head. Not that I think a lack of pressing was the biggest issue the other night.

The amount of money they get paid does not make them immune to the effects of a bad manager. That is a ridiculous line of argument.

The sluggishness that I speak of is the complete lack of fluency and imagination when they attack and the lack of energy throughout the game. It has been there, more or less, since the first game against Swansea.

Lord TSC

No

Soups123 wrote: »

He said it to the media? He could easily have not raised it and brought it up with Moyes. What benefit does it have airing his greivance in public

Perhaps (pure speculation) he's been bringing it up with Moyes time and time and time again in private, and only seen things getting worse? And after a game which frustrated him, he's (for some reason) shoved in front of a camera, and in the heat of frustration, made some private thoughts public?

BigBabyTaylor

BloodBath wrote: »

You're talking out of your arse. Name the better players with champions league experience and premier league winning experience that could be got for less.

£10-15M a piece for the likes of Valencia, Young, Nani and Hernandez are spot on valuations. You're living in the past if you think otherwise.

You're the naive one.

If you can find a team that wants to pay for 15 million for Young, Valencia and Nani (who hasnt played at a consistant level in what 2 - 3 years) then fair play to you because I dont think any clubs will be fighting over them due to them being largely ineffective the past 2 seasons in a row. Perhaps your living in the past and basing your valuations on the players they were rather than the players they are.

Hernandez perhaps, but him not getting any gametime would drive his price down along with if he wanted to leave

BloodBath

No

I said 10-15M ffs. Most if not all of those players would sell for at least £10M.

The valuations I got were taken from. If you know of a better more reliable source then link it. Otherwise shut up.

http://www.transfermarkt.com/en/

Their prices are already driven down and those values reflect that. We could have got at least double for all of them 2-3 years ago. Nani could have sold for 30M+ 3 seasons ago.

bucketybuck

No

BloodBath wrote: »

You're talking out of your arse. Name the better players with champions league experience and premier league winning experience that could be got for less.

£10-15M a piece for the likes of Valencia, Young, Nani and Hernandez are spot on valuations. You're living in the past if you think otherwise.

You're the naive one.

How many people need to respond to you before you accept that they were bull**** valuations?

Just face it, nobody is paying 4m for Fletcher or 16m for Antonio fcuking Valencia.

Richard Hillman

No

Soups123 wrote: »

He said it to the media? He could easily have not raised it and brought it up with Moyes. What benefit does it have airing his greivance in public

Every striker ever in the history of the world has complained about lads running into his position. Its hardly a knock on the managers door type of thing.



I give up on this. If people think this is a big deal then never ever play competitive football or even a kick about on astroturf or you will end up curled up in a ball sobbing to yourself. I really doubt Tom Cleverly or Ashley Young will be shunning RVP in the dressing room tomorrow because he said that people are running into his positions on tv.