Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod Warning: Post #7871

Soups123

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Perhaps (pure speculation) he's been bringing it up with Moyes time and time and time again in private, and only seen things getting worse? And after a game which frustrated him, he's (for some reason) shoved in front of a camera, and in the heat of frustration, made some private thoughts public?

Very possible. But tbh he's a player not the manager and he should play to the instructions ( as **** as they seem to be) and if it is true Moyes should discipline him for going public with it. As said earlier Fergie would never have it nor any other top manager

Soups123

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Every striker ever in the history of the world has complained about lads running into his position. Its hardly a knock on the managers door type of thing.



I give up on this. If people think this is a big deal then never ever play competitive football or even a kick about on astroturf or you will end up curled up in a ball sobbing to yourself. I really doubt Tom Cleverly or Ashley Young will be shunning RVP in the dressing room tomorrow because he said that people are running into his positions on tv.

The discussion should be amongst the players/manager not the media.

BloodBath

No

bucketybuck wrote: »

How many people need to respond to you before you accept that they were bull**** valuations?

Just face it, nobody is paying 4m for Fletcher or 16m for Antonio fcuking Valencia.

As if your opinion matters to me. You have no clue about player market values. I'll use http://www.transfermarkt.com/en/ as a basic outline for now. I already explained that I forgot to convert the value from euro to pound so yes my initial figures were off a little.

If you honestly think Nani, Young, Valencia and Hernandez are worth under £10M-£13M each you haven't got a ****ing clue.

I'm still waiting on the list of better experienced players who could be got for less.

Your Airbag

Pro. F wrote: »

Moyes' Everton team had the same types of defensive lapses and the same overall level of effort as this United team are exhibiting now. He has taken a team of multiple champions and made them about as good as his old Everton team were.

I feel your frustration towards Moyes is clouding your judgement. Moyes Everton were real battlers and were not as "limp" as UTD have been. Everton used to put up some real fights against UTD, pool and many many teams in terms or workrate and desire.

They didn't struggle all match with one dimensional tactics and struggle to keep going for 90 mins. I'm not sure shipping late goals was one of their traits.

I remember UTD being 3-1 one up at goodison in injury time a few years ago for the match to finish 3-3. The 1-0 nil defeat there on the opening day of last season was not how a defensively lapse team with overall poor preformances.

The_Kew_Tour

No

bucketybuck wrote: »

How many people need to respond to you before you accept that they were bull**** valuations?

Just face it, nobody is paying 4m for Fletcher or 16m for Antonio fcuking Valencia.

more like .4m and 1.6m:pac::pac:

tbf BloodBath was just trying raise a reasonable discussion.

MisterAnarchy

No

Headshot wrote: »

You like to stir the pot and go against the grain and the funny thing, your always dead wrong.

BTW I dont post in the wrestling forum and havent for some time either, ******* forum

Someone is in a very bad mood tonight.

BloodBath

No

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

more like .4m and 1.6m:pac::pac:

tbf BloodBath was just trying raise a reasonable discussion.

Yes and people got hung up on the player valuations. The main point of my post was how to spend the £150M+ available for transfers and 1M for wages and as usual the kids get sidetracked by minor details like the valuations which are almost impossible to be accurate.

I used the best source I know of to do the valuations. If they are slightly off big ****ing deal.

The_Kew_Tour

No

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Someone is in a very bad mood tonight.

tbf watching United would put anyone in bad mood lately.:P

onemorechance

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Someone is in a very bad mood tonight.

Gotta be careful 'round here! I had some kid go postal on me recently! :pac:

MisterAnarchy

No

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

tbf watching United would put anyone in bad mood lately.:P

True but I wouldnt diss the wrestling forum for fear some roid rage papa pump type would lay the smackdown on me.:D

Headshot

No

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Someone is in a very bad mood tonight.

Yap very bad mood with what's happening to utd and how I think we could have a Liverpool type fall

irishfeen

Headshot wrote: »

Yap very bad mood with what's happening to utd and how I think we could have a Liverpool type fall

Ah come here - we won't go mad now.

MisterAnarchy

No

On a lighter note I was watching The Chase quiz on ITV tonight and a young man was asked the following question:

Which English footballer played his last match for England in 1957 aged 42


His answer :David Beckham !
Priceless

Headshot

No

irishfseason 212540 wrote:

Ah come here - we won't go mad now.

You fail to see the bigger picture. No CL this season and same next season. You have finally seen Moyes sacked but it's to late and he has wasted millions on his players that most likely aren't what the next manager wants or needs.

This forthcoming summer is vital to utd and if we got the right man in charge to rebuild, we could see a new dawn at utd. I firmly believe this. Summer will be a balancing scale and Moyes is firmly in the road to ruin scale

bucketybuck

No

BloodBath wrote: »

You're talking out of your arse.

You're the naive one.

BloodBath wrote: »

Oh piss off. They are far from ridiculous. You know nothing about the market value of players.

BloodBath wrote: »

you haven't got a ****ing clue.

BloodBath wrote: »

If they are slightly off big ****ing deal.

You are tetchy and defensive because in your heart of hearts you know full well that they were terrible, terrible valuations that bore no relation to reality.

irishfeen

Headshot wrote: »

You fail to see the bigger picture. No CL this season and same next season. You have finally seen Moyes sacked but it's to late and he has wasted millions on his players that most likely aren't what the next manager wants or needs.

This forthcoming summer is vital to utd and if we got the right man in charge to rebuild, we could see a new dawn at utd. I firmly believe this. Summer will be a balancing scale and Moyes is firmly in the road to ruin scale

I think for all his possible faults, Moyes transfer dealing is exceptional ... At Everton he built a good team with a laughable budget ... The man can and will buy well IMO.

I do agree though that if we miss out on CL this year then it is vital for the season after because the last thing we want is to be falling down the seeding pots too much... I assume if we miss out we would slip automatically down to pot 2 the year after.

BloodBath

No

Headshot wrote: »

You fail to see the bigger picture. No CL this season and same next season. You have finally seen Moyes sacked but it's to late and he has wasted millions on his players that most likely aren't what the next manager wants or needs.

This forthcoming summer is vital to utd and if we got the right man in charge to rebuild, we could see a new dawn at utd. I firmly believe this. Summer will be a balancing scale and Moyes is firmly in the road to ruin scale

As bad as Moyes is the only thing I could see him and Woodward doing right is building a team and buying the right players.

bucketybuck wrote: »

You are tetchy and defensive because in your heart of hearts you know full well that they were terrible, terrible valuations that bore no relation to reality.

No. I made a mistake in not converting from Euro to Pound but outside of that the valuations are as close to accurate as you can get. You are out of touch with the transfer market. Just because a player is not good enough for United doesn't mean they are now worth nothing. They are good players with a lot of experience and a good few years ahead of them. They might not be United first team standard but that is reflected in the price.

Pro. F

No

Your Airbag wrote: »

I feel your frustration towards Moyes is clouding your judgement. Moyes Everton were real battlers and were not as "limp" as UTD have been. Everton used to put up some real fights against UTD, pool and many many teams in terms or workrate and desire.

They didn't struggle all match with one dimensional tactics and struggle to keep going for 90 mins. I'm not sure shipping late goals was one of their traits.

I disagree with your assessment of Everton and United under Moyes.

You're not sure that shipping late goals was a trait of that Everton team? Well, that's me convinced.

Your Airbag wrote: »

I remember UTD being 3-1 one up at goodison in injury time a few years ago for the match to finish 3-3. The 1-0 nil defeat there on the opening day of last season was not how a defensively lapse team with overall poor preformances.

Two games out of a ten year career at the club.

Discodog

Never mind the whiteboards this is the interesting bit of that Guardian article.

"Such is the faith in Moyes that the ambition for 2014-15 is not to finish in a Champions League position but to win a 21st domestic title."

It says a lot about the owner's knowledge of football if whiteboards are more impressive than management ability.

MisterAnarchy

No

irishfeen wrote: »

At Everton he built a good team with a laughable budget ... The man can and will buy well IMO.

The problem is that he will be under massive pressure to buy alot of players this summer and other clubs will know this and the asking price will be through the roof especially in a world cup year.

Ferguson couldnt buy a decent central midfielder ,one the team has been crying out for years .
Instead he bought sub standard players for positions he didnt need cover and wouldnt spend the big money required for true class.
Its like buying 2 cheap golf drivers instead of one top quality one .

By the time the summer comes Moyes will either be sacked or else have the club in such a terrible state that the Glazers might finally realise that they need to buy some true world class players .
Bad and all as Moyes is ,this bad run may be the wake up call the Glazers need to start buying proper players .

Your Airbag

Pro. F wrote: »

I disagree with your assessment of Everton and United under Moyes.

You're not sure that shipping late goals was a trait of that Everton team? Well, that's me convinced.



Two games out of a ten year career at the club.

I clearly said Everton had many many good preformances but chose two recent matches against us for relevance. The 4-4 all draw was also not typical of how UTD played this season compared to Everton that day.

Its not two matches over ten years, like i said many good showings above what we are seeing UTD do against many teams.

Unfortunatley repeating this is as tiresome as your insistance to constantly distort and twist a point someone has meet to suit yourself rather then have an honest discussion but it needs to be done to stop you doing this.

Also your assesment of Moyes Everton based on less or actual zero evidence put forward has me equally convinced.

Augmerson

Sack Moyes already?

Chelsea 2.0

Pro. F

No

Your Airbag wrote: »

I clearly said Everton had many many good preformances but chose two recent matches against us for relevance. The 4-4 all draw was also not typical of how UTD played this season compared to Everton that day.

Its not two matches over ten years, like i said many good showings above what we are seeing UTD do against many teams.

Unfortunatley repeating this is as tiresome as your insistance to constantly distort and twist a point someone has meet to suit yourself rather then have an honest discussion but it needs to be done to stop you doing this.

Also your assesment of Moyes Everton based on less or actual zero evidence put forward has me equally convinced.

Where did I do that?

Whatsisname

No

Independent reporting he has 12 games left to prove Glaziers he's the right man for the job

Your Airbag

Pro. F wrote: »

Where did I do that?

Its clearly mentioned in the post you quoted.

Pro. F

No

Discodog wrote: »

Never mind the whiteboards this is the interesting bit of that Guardian article.

"Such is the faith in Moyes that the ambition for 2014-15 is not to finish in a Champions League position but to win a 21st domestic title."

It says a lot about the owner's knowledge of football if whiteboards are more impressive than management ability.

The article is probably wild speculation. Anybody could have written that based on what is known publicly and some reasonable guess work.

The fact that there are people who do actually follow the sport who still think that Moyes should be given time and money and allowed to break up and rebuild the squad would indicate that it's possible for the American owners to be fooled too. It is a very disturbing situation.

Pro. F

No

Your Airbag wrote: »

Its clearly mentioned in the post you quoted.

I didn't distort or twist any point you made.

BloodBath

No

Pro. F wrote: »

The article is probably wild speculation. Anybody could have written that based on what is known publicly and some reasonable guess work.

The fact that there are people who do actually follow the sport who still think that Moyes should be given time and money and allowed to break up and rebuild the squad would indicate that it's possible for the American owners to be fooled too. It is a very disturbing situation.

Any manager coming in would have to break up and rebuild that squad. Between aging and underperforming players who also under performed for Fergie. There's going to near 10 players out the door in the summer.

Devil08

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Lads can we just sign Moyes as manager of transfers and get a real manager in for the tactics part because he clearly hasn't a clue what he's doing on that front

Yea he only has the highest coaching badge you can get and the guts of 15 years experience coaching and managing professional footballers. We all seem to be better tactically educated than Moyes.

Pro. F

No

BloodBath wrote: »

Any manager coming in would have to break up and rebuild that squad. Between aging and underperforming players who also under performed for Fergie. There's going to near 10 players out the door in the summer.

Any decent manager would have been able to get that squad playing effectively. Any decent manager who had £60m to spend on transfers and top end contracts to offer players would have been able to get that squad winning or close to winning silverware.

There might be 10 players leaving in the summer. That would be more evidence that Moyes is not good enough to manage at this level.

Edit: Wait a minute! You have voted that Moyes should be sacked. Why, if you think the squad needed a total rebuild, are you not going to give him time to do that?

BloodBath

No

I don't disagree. I'm not defending Moyes but there's no questioning that a big rebuild was coming this summer regardless of who the manager was.

larrymiller

If I was moyes I wouldn't of touched the utd job, option 1. Stay at the club your at and get away with finishing in the top Half of the table with a large salary no pressure or option 2, join utd with massive expectations etc etc for a larger salary, but I'd always go for the simple life

Devil08

larrymiller wrote: »

If I was moyes I wouldn't of touched the utd job, option 1. Stay at the club your at and get away with finishing in the top Half of the table with a large salary no pressure or option 2, join utd with massive expectations etc etc for a larger salary, but I'd always go for the simple life

But if you were Moyes you would be the Utd manager now..

Pro. F

No

BloodBath wrote: »

I don't disagree. I'm not defending Moyes but there's no questioning that a big rebuild was coming this summer regardless of who the manager was.

Meh, we will never know now.

BloodBath

No

It was coming. Fergie as good as he was left the team in dire straits.

Aging players were not replaced. Bad players were not replaced. Retired players were not replaced. The best young talent we've had in years was let go.

The only thing I'm happy with about Moyes is his identification of the players we need and the removal of players like Anderson with more to follow. I do think it was a mistake loaning Anderson out before he was replaced though. As bad as he was he would be a far better option than Cleverly is at the moment.

Even Powell would be a better option.

larrymiller

Devil08 wrote: »

But if you were Moyes you would be the Utd manager now..

Think I'd rather stick to me own job, at least I'm good at it!

Pro. F

No

BloodBath wrote: »

It was coming. Fergie as good as he was left the team in dire straits.

Aging players were not replaced. Bad players were not replaced. Retired players were not replaced. The best young talent we've had in years was let go.

The only thing I'm happy with about Moyes is his identification of the players we need and the removal of players like Anderson with more to follow. I do think it was a mistake loaning Anderson out before he was replaced though. As bad as he was he would be a far better option than Cleverly is at the moment.

Even Powell would be a better option.

Yeah, your and my understand of what constitutes a squad in dire straights are very far removed.

BloodBath

No

I'm not excusing the **** performance this year on a poor squad. Moyes and his staff are the number 1 reason we're doing as badly as we are but if we honestly want to win the PL and CL anytime soon then we need some major restructuring and spending.

Fergie scraping by and getting results and titles with a mediocre team didn't encourage spending. This year is the badly needed kick up the arse that was needed to pump some serious money into the team and get rid of the dead weight.

miralize

No

Kagawa is wasted on you lot Moyes

THE ART OF SUBTLETY: ILLUSTRATIONS OF KAGAWA’S INTELLIGENCE VS OLYMPIAKOS

http://livelifeunited.com/shinji-kagawa-qualities-intelligence-positional/

Pro. F

No

BloodBath wrote: »

I'm not excusing the **** performance this year on a poor squad. Moyes and his staff are the number 1 reason we're doing as badly as we are but if we honestly want to win the PL and CL anytime soon then we need some major restructuring and spending.

Fergie scraping by and getting results and titles with a mediocre team didn't encourage spending. This year is the badly needed kick up the arse that was needed to pump some serious money into the team and get rid of the dead weight.

I don't agree that the team was/is mediocre. Do we really need to continue a back and forth on this. We don't agree on the quality of the squad.

wonderfullife

No

miralize wrote: »

Kagawa is wasted on you lot Moyes

THE ART OF SUBTLETY: ILLUSTRATIONS OF KAGAWA’S INTELLIGENCE VS OLYMPIAKOS

http://livelifeunited.com/shinji-kagawa-qualities-intelligence-positional/

Nice diagrams and illustrations but doesn't alter the fact he was absolute poison like the rest of the side on the night.

Anybody can draw clever diagrams about someone being in space. I'm sure i could draw you a dozen with RVP in space. Illustrating the classic positional sense of a striker.

Oh , wait, he was poison on the night too.

Neither RVP nor Kagawa tried a leg. No desire. No spirit. Souls destroyed.

Incidentally, there's no point saying Moyes doesn't "get" Kagawa. SAF didn't "get" him either.

He'll be off back to Germany in the summer.

BloodBath

No

Pro. F wrote: »

I don't agree that the team was/is mediocre. Do we really need to continue a back and forth on this. We don't agree on the quality of the squad.

Yes we do as you're talking nonsense. First you don't agree that Moyes is the problem, now you're saying the team isn't the problem when in reality it's a combination of both.

It's 70% Moyes and his staff, 30% squad.

If we want to win a champions league look at what we're up against. Our squad doesn't have anywhere near the strength and depth of the big 3.

We could spend small and be competitive in the PL or build a proper team that can compete on all fronts.

Mikeyt086

No

irishfeen wrote: »

"Moyes has installed a bespoke facility that houses whiteboards, computers, high-definition screens, iPads and other state-of-the-art digital technology at United's training ground. This allows the manager easy access to data on players of all positions, ages and career trajectory from around the world, while also maintaining immediate contact with a global network of scouts"

Sounds fancy

I would jizz in my pants if I was let inside that room.

Pro. F

No

BloodBath wrote: »

Yes we do as you're talking nonsense. First you don't agree that Moyes is the problem, now you're saying the team isn't the problem when in reality it's a combination of both.

It's 70% Moyes and his staff, 30% squad.

If we want to win a champions league look at what we're up against. Our squad doesn't have anywhere near the strength and depth of the big 3.

We could spend small and be competitive in the PL or build a proper team that can compete on all fronts.

I have said many times that Moyes is the problem.

I don't agree with your assessment of the squad.

CSF

No

irishfeen wrote: »

I think for all his possible faults, Moyes transfer dealing is exceptional ... At Everton he built a good team with a laughable budget ... The man can and will buy well IMO.

I do agree though that if we miss out on CL this year then it is vital for the season after because the last thing we want is to be falling down the seeding pots too much... I assume if we miss out we would slip automatically down to pot 2 the year after.

Exceptional? Jesus, exaggeration of the century there. Coleman and Baines were very good signings. Who else would you put into a top 4 side that he signed? He would put Fellaini in clearly but I wouldn't. Other than that all his signings were upper mid-table players that have never evolved beyond that. I'm not saying there was anything wrong with his Everton signings (granted it's a lot easier to source players who can do a job for Everton than can United) but exceptional is definitely pushing the boat out there. Bit ridiculous.

Pro. F

No

CSF wrote: »

Exceptional? Jesus, exaggeration of the century there. Coleman and Baines were very good signings. Who else would you put into a top 4 side that he signed? He would put Fellaini in clearly but I wouldn't. Other than that all his signings were upper mid-table players that have never evolved beyond that. I'm not saying there was anything wrong with his Everton signings (granted it's a lot easier to source players who can do a job for Everton than can United) but exceptional is definitely pushing the boat out there. Bit ridiculous.

Arteta, Jagielka, Distin are a few more I can think of. He bought a few players good enough for top 4 imo. I wouldn't have enough detailed information about the budget to know whether to call his transfer work exceptional or not myself.

Augmerson

Cahill was quite good for a few seasons.

goodolegill

No

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

You're confused? What is your fixation with Trap? Christ I'm trying to figure out what in God's name he has got to do with Moyes in the United thread. Did you fall over this afternoon and suffer a head trauma? Maybe even a concussion perhaps? Because in almost 5 years in this forum, I have posted 3 posts relating to Trap. Now off to A&E and get someone to check your GCS (Glasgow Coma Scale).

My obsession is that you are telling people that Moyes needs to get 3 1/2 years in the job becuz Fergie got it but admit that you didnt want to give Trap that same opportunity.

U cant use that logic to hide behind a managers failings if you choose to ignore it for a different manager!!

People base whether a manager is worthy of continuing in their position if they are meeting their standards and targets.

Moyes was fortunate to get the job and is even more fortunate to still be in the job when there are quite a few managers who have under performed less and still being sacked.

Agueroooo

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

I would jizz in my pants if I was let inside that room.

Stick a white board in most living rooms and taaadaaa there you go !

Dicky Pride

No

There has to be 106 (and counting) non-man Utd fans trolling us because surely there can't be that many man utd fans who are that blind as to think that moyes will get any better. A shocking poll result tbh.