Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod Warning: Post #7871

Augmerson

secman

No

Augmerson wrote: »

When will he start to believe ........ ..

Son Of A Vidic

goodolegill wrote: »

My obsession is that you are telling people that Moyes needs to get 3 1/2 years in the job becuz Fergie got it but admit that you didnt want to give Trap that same opportunity.

O.k. we have a little progress, you have at least admitted your obsession with Trap.

Now the next but very important step for you to realise is, it is you who brought him into the conversation.

And since it now appears to be clear that you are incapable of understanding that. I have to ask, did you not get that GCS assessment that I suggested yesterday?

Dicky Pride

No

It's really odd. A few weeks ago, after the Fulham game, almost everyone that I could see on this thread wanted moyes gone, they had lost their last shred of belief. Is it possible that one result against crystal palace (followed by an embarrassing display in Greece) has changed people's minds?

In Giles's rant last night he said that moyes deserves time and that some of the players, like van Persie, don't want to play under him. Doesn't he see that that's one of moyes's biggest issues? The man clearly doesn't know how to motivate the players and that's a huge factor towards this season's regression. The man's legacy will be that he destroyed an empire.

Deiseboy01

billyhead wrote: »

Fergie got out at the right time because he knew the team was in decline and he had already created a successful leagacy behind and bowed out on a high winning the PL. I dont think they will sack Moyes in the summer no matter how the rest of the league campaign pans out. I can see them reviewing it in Ocotber/November if results and performances are still ****e after he has been given full backing in the transfer market and has gotten the dreaded vote of confidence

I've seen this mooted a few times and it worries me. I think the time to make a call on Moyes future is now, not next Nov.

Make the call before the summer. If that call is to get a new man in at least he has time to buy players during the summer.

I can see this ending badly for Moyes. He ll buy players during the summer. He will struggle to integrate them post World Cup. Results will suffer and because of the legacy of this season he won't be given time. Goes at Xmas leaving us struggling to get into the CL again and the new guy short of funds.

Very worrying scenario.

Demosthenese

No

Dicky Pride wrote: »

It's really odd. A few weeks ago, after the Fulham game, almost everyone that I could see on this thread wanted moyes gone, they had lost their last shred of belief. Is it possible that one result against crystal palace (followed by an embarrassing display in Greece) has changed people's minds?

In Giles's rant last night he said that moyes deserves time and that some of the players, like van Persie, don't want to play under him. Doesn't he see that that's one of moyes's biggest issues? The man clearly doesn't know how to motivate the players and that's a huge factor towards this season's regression. The man's legacy will be that he destroyed an empire.

Sometimes football is not just results based but also quality based. United fans know the sort of football that they are capable of even with the players that now seem surplus to requirements - Carrick/Young/Valencia/Cleverly/Evra etc ... that's the annoying part. Everyone knows from last season they can play good football and even though it was a poor year for other teams going for the title they still were well shaped and performed well. It is a shadow of the team that played just 12months ago. People do not become bad players overnight.

Moyes has spent 10 years in the same fashion, battling with the 5th/6th placed teams in a dogfight, but that was acceptable, when going for 4th was a holy grail, nothing to play for regarding trophies and merely for pride. The players at United now must concede the league and do not hold the notion that they can achieve 4th ... very difficult to motivate a group like that. It reminds me of the last few games of the league when teams are SAFE from relegation and merely play out fixtures with no real intent. Everton/Spurs/Liverpool would stand on your head to get 4th ... they are hungry for it. What does finishing 4th mean to players with more medals than an army general!

Moyes looks destined to be remembered like Souness was for Liverpool. Tearing down a legacy.

Headshot

No

ffs bloody poll. As if you could have a partial poll in here

Such stupidity

bren2001

Dicky Pride wrote: »

There has to be 106 (and counting) non-man Utd fans trolling us because surely there can't be that many man utd fans who are that blind as to think that moyes will get any better. A shocking poll result tbh.

Why do I have to be blind to think Moyes should be given more time? Essentially, the poll does not agree with your view of thinking and as a result it is shocking. I know plenty of non-boards United fans who are not happy with Moyes's performance so far but still have faith in him. Are they blind too?

Mitch Connor

No

bren2001 wrote: »

Why do I have to be blind to think Moyes should be given more time? Essentially, the poll does not agree with your view of thinking and as a result it is shocking. I know plenty of non-boards United fans who are not happy with Moyes's performance so far but still have faith in him. Are they blind too?

Possibly - fact is I have yet to see anyone give a good reason as to why Moyes should be given time, beyond stupid reasons like 'We're not chelsea'.

What has Moyes done in his time at United to show he deserves time? Am I missing the football philosophy he clearly has us working towards? Am I missing the character and attitude he is bringing to the team?

Faith in Moyes at this point is blind faith, imo, because I really can't see any reasons to have faith in him - I don't see what he has shown that has earned him this faith.

DARK-KNIGHT

No

Dicky Pride wrote: »

There has to be 106 (and counting) non-man Utd fans trolling us because surely there can't be that many man utd fans who are that blind as to think that moyes will get any better. A shocking poll result tbh.

You can see the poll results the perm brigad3 and abus are voting no surprisingly :rolleyes:

Giruilla

Anyone see Sadlier on RTE last night? Made some excellent points.. asking the fundamental questions,
"What is Moyes stamp or what will be Moyes stamp when he gets his players in?"
.. to which Giles and Ronnie both couldn't/dodged answering.

I personally am happy to give Moyes the time, based on it being what Ferguson wants, and that I do believe stability is more important to a club than anything else.
However I can't say I'm not worried in that I'm also stuggling to find an answer to Sadlier's question.

bangkok

I am still behind moyes, he needs the summer to clear out players he doesn't want and buy the players he does want....after that ye can judge him all ye like but to judge him now after less than 1 season in the job in ridiculous

DARK-KNIGHT

No

Giruilla wrote: »

Anyone see Sadlier on RTE last night? Made some excellent points.. asking the fundamental questions,
"What is Moyes stamp or what will be Moyes stamp when he gets his players in?"
.. to which Giles and Ronnie both couldn't/dodged answering.

I personally am happy to give Moyes the time, based on it being what Ferguson wants, and that I do believe stability is more important to a club than anything else.
However I can't say I'm not worried in that I'm also stuggling to find an answer to Sadlier's question.

If the players were playing for moyes yes i would give him time but its like nobody in dressing room believes in him or wants to play for him..

We give him time we will end up regressing to the 80s

bangkok

Giruilla wrote: »

Anyone see Sadlier on RTE last night? Made some excellent points.. asking the fundamental questions,
"What is Moyes stamp or what will be Moyes stamp when he gets his players in?"
.. to which Giles and Ronnie both couldn't/dodged answering.

I personally am happy to give Moyes the time, based on it being what Ferguson wants, and that I do believe stability is more important to a club than anything else.
However I can't say I'm not worried in that I'm also stuggling to find an answer to Sadlier's question.

you also didn't mention than sadlier said utd were extremely poor and needed at least 7-8 new players in which Giles then asked him how can you blame moyes then which sadlier had no answer for....

DARK-KNIGHT

No

bangkok wrote: »

I am still behind moyes, he needs the summer to clear out players he doesn't want and buy the players he does want....after that ye can judge him all ye like but to judge him now after less than 1 season in the job in ridiculous

Yeah what manager wouldnt have taken that united team and invested in areas that needed attention? Moyes is gonna turn us into everton no ****ing thank you

paulbok

No

Richard Hillman wrote: »

No he wouldnt have. It would barely have made the news. Little things are very newsworthy right now.

People have some mad conception that footballers are crazed literally genius's that can launch scathing underhanded attacks with slight comments.

What was the question that was even asked of him? He hardly released a statement to tell the world of this.

What RVP said is worse than what got Stam booted out the door.

Giruilla

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

If the players were playing for moyes yes i would give him time but its like nobody in dressing room believes in him or wants to play for him..

We give him time we will end up regressing to the 80s

I personally think it's a risk you have to take. I'd rather see united fall for a season or two than instantly transform into a City or Chelsea mindset the season after losing the greatest manager in history.

Lord TSC

No

bangkok wrote: »

I am still behind moyes, he needs the summer to clear out players he doesn't want and buy the players he does want....after that ye can judge him all ye like but to judge him now after less than 1 season in the job in ridiculous

Honestly, its a trust issue.

Right now, I'm terrified with how he could "reshape" the team, shipping out the wrong players, overspeading on the wrong players, and then by the time he goes next year, the task is 100 times harder for whoever replaces him. It's already a hard task for whoever comes in next; the longer Moyes has the job, the harder the task will become imo.

EDIT: And back to the "We can't be like City or Chelsea arguement"? It really holds no ground here, given that it's a completly different situation we find ourselves in compared to them...

goodolegill

No

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

O.k. we have a little progress, you have at least admitted your obsession with Trap.

Now the next but very important step for you to realise is, it is you who brought him into the conversation.

And since it now appears to be clear that you are incapable of understanding that. I have to ask, did you not get that GCS assessment that I suggested yesterday?

I will try again

i will try to ask you the same question in the original post before you deemed i was obsessed with Trap.

U said that u werent willing to give him time when he started the job so im struggling to understand you're current logic saying that all managers need the 3 1/2 years that Fergie got. U seem to think that only after 3 years - we can make an assessment of a managers body of work.

So the 3 1/2 years should only be given to managers that u deem fit??

Cantona's Collars

Conflicting reports coming out about Moyes,some say he has the rest of the season to prove himself others say the transfer window will either make him or break him.

A good comment was made about him on the radio last night,think it was by Jim White from United We Stand.Basically he said that Moyes lacked the ego of the likes of Pep,Jose,etc.He used Pep as a good example as he basically said to Barca,"go ahead and give me the job",he had no fear in doing it.All we hear from Moyes is talk of "luck,hope,maybe,if".He lacks the conviction in what he is doing & gives the impression that he doesn't believe in himself to do the job.

jonnyfingers

I'm willing to give Moyes until after the 2nd leg against Olympiakos. If we go out without as much as a whimper then it can be said he has failed in every major competition this year and, as such, doesn't deserve to remain in charge. It will also give the next manager a nice act to follow, getting us to do well in any competition would be a success!

Crimson King

No

All that poll proves is the amount of opposition fans that read the United thread, as it happens its nearly half. Nice to know.

Nuri Sahin

Crimson King wrote: »

All that poll proves is the amount of opposition fans that read the United thread, as it happens its nearly half. Nice to know.

The poll was merged into here from another thread where the majority of votes took place.

stesaurus

No

zerks wrote: »

Conflicting reports coming out about Moyes,some say he has the rest of the season to prove himself others say the transfer window will either make him or break him.

A good comment was made about him on the radio last night,think it was by Jim White from United We Stand.Basically he said that Moyes lacked the ego of the likes of Pep,Jose,etc.He used Pep as a good example as he basically said to Barca,"go ahead and give me the job",he had no fear in doing it.All we hear from Moyes is talk of "luck,hope,maybe,if".He lacks the conviction in what he is doing & gives the impression that he doesn't believe in himself to do the job.

Wasn't there also some talk that Fergie had to convince him to take the role as Moyes himself didn't feel up to the task?

Giruilla

Crimson King wrote: »

All that poll proves is the amount of opposition fans that read the United thread, as it happens its nearly half. Nice to know.

And/or proves how fickle, impatient and desperate for instant success united supporters are after their most successful manager in history left them one request. Just saying.

bangkok

well moyes did make Fabregas his no1 transfer target in the summer, a deal that I believe could have happened if they had of made a higher bid (it wasn't moyes that bid 25m) he has just signed Juan Mata and Wayne Rooney has signed for life..... brilliant news. Come summer it looks like his no1 target will be Toni Kroos although I think he will stay with Bayern, hope I am wrong. Gundogan transfer looks like it could happen with kagawa going the other way..... all positives he just needs time and not to give him time is stupid

Nuri Sahin

bangkok wrote: »

well moyes did make Fabregas his no1 transfer target in the summer, a deal that I believe could have happened if they had of made a higher bid (it wasn't moyes that bid 25m) he has just signed Juan Mata and Wayne Rooney has signed for life..... brilliant news. Come summer it looks like his no1 target will be Toni Kroos although I think he will stay with Bayern, hope I am wrong. Gundogan transfer looks like it could happen with kagawa going the other way..... all positives he just needs time and not to give him time is stupid

Please, just stop talking about Borussia Dortmund.

bucketybuck

No

bangkok wrote: »

I am still behind moyes, he needs another summer to clear out players he doesn't want and buy the players he does want

FYP

sea_monkey

No

Did anyone watch the game? People saying RVP didnt try, how can he do anything when there is nothing going through the middle?

Rooney was back in midfield trying to get the ball on many occasions because there just isnt anything happening between the CMs and the strikers.

RVP could have just sat down for the entire match as nothing was being done to get him into a goal scoring chance (except that one that he skyed, suarez gets 5+chances every match)

bangkok

Nuri Sahin wrote: »

Please, just stop talking about Borussia Dortmund.

im talking about Gundogan not Dortmund...... :pac:

SlickRic

the Moyes conundrum isn't difficult.

he's never won anything. he has never proven he can win anything.

why?

because he's a safe manager who plays the most extreme form of percentage football I've ever seen. he doesn't get his teams to play with any risk. now, neither does José Mourinho. but he makes up for that with tactical nous and having his players willing to put everything on the line for the cause.

Moyes is good at getting a mediocre team organised, difficult to beat and competitive. that's it. his outlook on the game doesn't allow for actual success at the top end.

he was slagged all round for saying Utd were in good form going into the Olympiacos game. the thing is, I would bet he genuinely does think a couple of draws and a win is good form for a team.

Moyes just doesn't get it. and I'll be honest, i laugh on a regular basis because of it.

why?

because it won't last. as soon as the right man is in, even if it's as late as Christmas, Utd will be back. so I'm making the most of the joy now.

Nuri Sahin

bangkok wrote: »

im talking about Gundogan not Dortmund...... :pac:

You're talking about something Dortmund related, and again proving you have no idea what you're talking about.

looks like it could happen, based on what? Football manager? Some English tabloid? Mayans?

I will it say it here now. There is ZERO chance of Kagawa going back to Dortmund. I'll leave you to try and figure out why.

bangkok

SlickRic wrote: »

the Moyes conundrum isn't difficult.

he's never won anything. he has never proven he can win anything.

why?

because he's a safe manager who plays the most extreme form of percentage football I've ever seen. he doesn't get his teams to play with any risk. now, neither does José Mourinho. but he makes up for that with tactical nous and having his players willing to put everything on the line for the cause.

Moyes is good at getting a mediocre team organised, difficult to beat and competitive. that's it. his outlook on the game doesn't allow for actual success at the top end.

he was slagged all round for saying Utd were in good form going into the Olympiacos game. the thing is, I would bet he genuinely does think a couple of draws and a win is good form for a team.

Moyes just doesn't get it. and I'll be honest, i laugh on a regular basis because of it.

why?

because it won't last. as soon as the right man is in, even if it's as late as Christmas, Utd will be back. so I'm making the most of the joy now.

Manager

Preston North End

• Football League Second Division: 1999–2000

Manchester United

• FA Community Shield: 2013

Individual

• LMA Manager of the Year: 2002–03, 2004–05, 2008–09
• Premier League Manager of the Month: November 2002, September 2004, January 2006, February 2008, February 2009, January 2010, March 2010, October 2010, September 2012, March 2013

bangkok

Nuri Sahin wrote: »

You're talking about something Dortmund related, and again proving you have no idea what you're talking about.

looks like it could happen, based on what? Football manager? Some English tabloid? Mayans?

I will it say it here now. There is ZERO chance of Kagawa going back to Dortmund. I'll leave you to try and figure out why.

who are you, the Dortmund manager??!

goodolegill

No

bangkok wrote: »

well moyes did make Fabregas his no1 transfer target in the summer, a deal that I believe could have happened if they had of made a higher bid (it wasn't moyes that bid 25m) he has just signed Juan Mata and Wayne Rooney has signed for life..... brilliant news. Come summer it looks like his no1 target will be Toni Kroos although I think he will stay with Bayern, hope I am wrong. Gundogan transfer looks like it could happen with kagawa going the other way..... all positives he just needs time and not to give him time is stupid

Fabregas quote : "When I arrived, I knew there would be other clubs where I would have earned more money and where I could get more playing time.

"For example, I was making more money at Arsenal. But to join Barca was my dream, and I would not leave even if they [United] offered double my salary."

I dont think all the money in the world would of prized him away from his boyhood club

SlickRic

I stand corrected.

he's a proven winner.

Nuri Sahin

bangkok wrote: »

who are you, the Dortmund manager??!

No, but I'm someone who reads up on a subject I know little to nowt about before spewing absolutely nonsense.

You can admit you have no clue as to why Dortmund wouldn't re-sign Kagawa if you wish.

bangkok

SlickRic wrote: »

I stand corrected.

he's a proven winner.

u said he won nothing...

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

No

bangkok wrote: »

u said he won nothing...

bar one lower league title he hasn't

Community shield doesn't count, it's one game and he was in it because of the success of Ferguson the year before

goodolegill

No

bangkok wrote: »

u said he won nothing...

steve coppell has won the lma manager of the year (twice)
is he a better manager??

bangkok

Nuri Sahin wrote: »

No, but I'm someone who reads up on a subject I know little to nowt about before spewing absolutely nonsense.

You can admit you have no clue as to why Dortmund wouldn't re-sign Kagawa if you wish.

well done.... you should know then that every summer Dortmund also sell one of their best players..... Lewandowski, Gotze, Kagawa, Sahin and this summer will be no different wheather it be reus, gundogen or whoever

bangkok

bangkok wrote: »

Manager

Preston North End

• Football League Second Division: 1999–2000

Manchester United

• FA Community Shield: 2013

Individual

• LMA Manager of the Year: 2002–03, 2004–05, 2008–09
• Premier League Manager of the Month: November 2002, September 2004, January 2006, February 2008, February 2009, January 2010, March 2010, October 2010, September 2012, March 2013

One solitary 2nd division championship to his name. The charity shield is window dressing. As for the personal awards :-)

If you're happy as a Utd fan with a guy like that coming in that Cv good for you. I'd imagine alarm bells would go off for most fans looking at that alone tbh.

Doesn't mean it won't work of course but the odds are stacked against him.

SlickRic

bangkok wrote: »

u said he won nothing...

I did.

thanks.

now, do you think him winning Manager of the Month awards, a Community Shield against Wigan and a Second Division title with Preston mean he is a proven winner?

bucketybuck

No

bangkok wrote: »

well done.... you should know then that every summer Dortmund also sell one of their best players..... Lewandowski, Gotze, Kagawa, Sahin and this summer will be no different wheather it be reus, gundogen or whoever

Well then, this summer Lewandowski will be the one player that leaves. So by your own logic we cannot get Gundogan this summer.

Check and mate!

bangkok

rarnes1 wrote: »

One solitary 2nd division championship to his name. The charity shield is window dressing. As for the personal awards :-)

If you're happy as a Utd fan with a guy like that coming in that Cv good for you. I'd imagine alarm bells would go off for most fans looking at that alone tbh.

Doesn't mean it won't work of course but the odds are stacked against him.

sure what if pep guardiola had of taken over united before Barcelona.... he won nothing either. tata Martino the current coach has won nothing either.....

bangkok

bucketybuck wrote: »

Well then, this summer Lewandowski will be the one player that leaves. So by your own logic we cannot get Gundogan this summer.

Check and mate!

lewandowski on a free and he signed in January.....

stesaurus

No

bangkok wrote: »

well done.... you should know then that every summer Dortmund also sell one of their best players..... Lewandowski, Gotze, Kagawa, Sahin and this summer will be no different wheather it be reus, gundogen or whoever

Jesus your posts are just tiresome at this stage, I can't figure out whether your enjoying being contrary or just naive. Maybe you haven't been around long enough but Nuri actually knows what he's talking about when it comes to BVB.

Nuri Sahin

bangkok wrote: »

well done.... you should know then that every summer Dortmund also sell one of their best players..... Lewandowski, Gotze, Kagawa, Sahin and this summer will be no different weather it be reus, gundogen or whoever

I'll help you with your homework, here's a few headings for you:

1/ Try reading up on Gundogan's situation.
2/ Try reading up on a player called Mkhitaryan.
3/ Try reading up on Hofmann.
4/ Try reading up on Klopp's thoughts on Kagawa.
5/ Please ask Klopp or Loew to play Reus at CM if you ever get the chance.

Will I Amnt

No

Slick has it fairly bang on there. I was all for being patient while he adjusted to the step up in quality of team and player but he still has the mentality of managing a 5th-10th placed club.

If there were even the slightest signs it was changing I could be persuaded to stick with it.
Funny thing is, Everton under Moyes the last few seasons were a team I enjoyed watching. He has this team playing even more negative, it smacks of a man just happy not to lose games which is not good enough for this club by a long way.

ericzeking

I'm happy to stick by Moyes, Wednesday night was a test for me to be honest, to see the return our misfiring wingers (Antonio Valencia name on the team sheet makes me want to cry) in the wake of such a promising performance Saturday was pretty demoralising especially given that essentially the same team was available if you just swapped Mata for Kagawa.

I like how Moyes has spent money so far and I like who he has targetted and I think they reflect positively on what might be to come.
Mata, Fellaini, Rooney, Nani, Januzaj....that's what he has outlaid money on... all positive as far as I'm concerned.

He's been heavily linked with the likes of Fabregas and Gundogen, I like that too.

I concede that more business should have been done by now particularly in the full back positions...I'm assuming central midfield is lined up for the summer.

So I'm confident he will sign the right players.

However, I'm now almost convinced that he cannot motivate some of what we have, in particular Ferdinand, Evra, RVP, Vidic...but I'm not sure any manager could after the situation those players exited at the tail end of their careers ie that one last drive for Sir Alex.
Maybe Pep...but he was unavailable...Maybe Jose...but he would have been contentious for a myriad of reasons. Still both Maybes...our players have just exited a UNIQUE situation for modern day players.

So I'm happy for Moyes to get the summer to ship out more than a few and get players who want to play for him. If, come next October/November that there isn't a marked improvement, I think that will be time enough to make a change.

I regularaly see an argument about people sticking by the manager who has done nothing for us at the expense of these players who have won so much for us...well the counter to that is simply that when the players start calling the shots...that is when you are completely focked, the manager must have the power, that's how Fergie did it and that's how it should be done.
You simply cannot have players elevated to a higher plateau than the manager, regardless of past achievements.