Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod Warning: Post #7871

Lucas Hood

No

Idbatterim wrote: »

what is bayerns manager before Guardiola doing?

Retired.

Nuri Sahin

Idbatterim wrote: »

what is bayerns manager before Guardiola doing?

He's finito.

Kerrydude1981

No

Jesse Lingard gone on loan to Brighton for the rest of the season.

bangkok

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

Jesse Lingard gone on loan to Brighton for the rest of the season.

for next season....and powell, zaha back to..... 3 good young players

Blatter

No

whatawaster wrote: »

It's possible to think that United's squad needs a big overhaul (so this season is not completely Moyes' fault) but that Moyes isn't the man who should be allowed to do it. Your squad has a lot of holes in it, but it's hardly beyond repair.

Goalkeepers
De Gea (23), Lindegaard (29)

This position looks sorted. One of the best young keepers in the world and as good a backup as most clubs could hope for.

Right Back
Rafael (23), Varela (20)

Rafael is very strong first choice, Varela looks promising, but at the moment has to be classed as unproven backup. So for RB, cover may be necessary, but Jones/Smalling may be considered adequate emergency cover.

Left Back
Evra (32), Buttner (25)

Evra is past it imo and Buttner just isn't good enough. A left back is a top priority in the summer, ideally two.

Centre Back
Vidic (32), Ferdinand (35), Jones (22), Smalling (25), Evans (26)

Another problem position. Ferdinand is past it and will probably retire. Vidic is still your best defender but is leaving in the summer. That leaves just 3 recognised centre-backs. Jones is probably your future in that position, so the defense should be built around him. Smalling hasn't lived up to his initial promise, but he and Evans provide pretty decent backup. Sign one quality centre back to partner Jones and things don't look so bad. In an ideal world. you'd look to sign two new CB's and let Jones continue to develop (he is only 22 after all).

Central Midfield
Carrick (32), Fellaini (26), Cleverly (24), Giggs (40), Fletcher (30)

This continues to be a big weakness. Let's discount Giggs immediately for being too old. He has no part of United's playing future. Cleverly is simply not good enough and should be moved on. If you discount these two you really start to see the poverty of options in the middle.
Carrick is a very good player and although he is 32, he should have a few more years in him. Fellaini will come good, I think, but Fletcher is 30 and has had terrible health problems, so you'd wonder how much of a solution he will be for United over the next 3/4 years.
Two central midfielders are badly needed imo - one to replace Carrick in the first XI and one to replace Fellaini in the first XI. Now, I think both Carrick and Fellaini are good players and a Carrick/Fellaini midfield would be far from the worst midfield around, but even with those two you are missing any real pace in the centre and any real creativity.
So, a quick, physical defensive midfielder, and a creative outlet.

Attacking midfield
Januzaj (19), Mata (25), Kagawa (24), Young (28), Nani (27), Valencia (28)

There is really very little that should need to be done here. Mata is top class, Kagawa is an outstanding creative player and Januzaj is one of the most exciting young players in the premier league.
Nani has been criminally underused this season, but Young and Valencia are both on the wane. If you could offload two of Young/Nani/Valencia and bring in one more attacking player your options in this area would be as good as any teams.

Strikers
Rooney (28)
Van Persie (30)
Welbeck (23)
Hernandez (25)

If Van Persie stays, Chico goes. If Van Persie goes (which I think he might), Rooney becomes the main man and Chico stays. Either way, I'd be surprised to see any additions in this area.

In Summary
Out
Vidic
Ferdinand
Evra or Buttner
Cleverly
Giggs
Valencia, Young, Nani (2 from these)
Hernandez (or RVP)

That's 8 players out

In
First choice left back
First choice centre back
Defensive Midfielder
Creative Midfielder
Attacking Midfielder/Winger
plus possibly:
Right back cover
Additional centre back
Left back cover

So between 5 and 8 signings needed imo.

That's a massive turnaround.
If you don't get CL this season, you absolutely need to get it next season. With up to half a dozen new signings bedding in and some big players having left, it's going to be very tough. You need someone other than Moyes to make it happen imo.

I agree with your analysis for the most part however I'd definitely keep Cleverley on for back up.

Important to note though that the changes you suggest would lead to United having a near perfect squad. Perfect squads are very rare, there are none in the PL anyway, that's for sure. It's not something that needs to be done in one transfer window, or at all for the club to be successful but it's definitely nice to aim for it.

The squad as it is, is good enough to challenge for the PL imo and should be definitely in the top 4, but David Moyes...alas.

whatawaster

bangkok wrote: »

for next season....and powell, zaha back to..... 3 good young players

There is simply no room for the three of them currently. One maybe, with the other two going back on loan

They would all be competing with Mata, Januzaj, Rooney, RVP, Kagawa, Welbeck and at least a couple out of Nani, Valencia, Young, Chico

The attacking positions are the most stacked in the United squad.

Liam O

Whoever gets Kagawa for the circa 10m he'll probably go for will be laughing next season. The ability to shine in any league.

Courtesy Flush

No

Should Moyes be given all this money to spend in the summer?

He spent £27.5m on Marouane Fellaini, who spent Tuesday on the bench, and a club-record £37.1m on Juan Mata, whose best position is the same as Rooney's.

Bannerman7

No

Why should Moyes be given time ?
A lot of people are saying Ferguson was given time when he arrived from Aberdeen in 86. Back then Ferguson was a proven winner with Aberdeen having broken the Celtic / Rangers hold.
Just a reminder of what Ferguson achieved at Aberdeen.
Aberdeen
Scottish Premier Division (3): 1979-80, 1983-84, 1984-85.
Scottish Cup (4): 1981-82, 1982-83, 1983-84, 1985-86.
Scottish League Cup (1): 1985-86.
European Cup Winners' Cup (1): 1982-83.
European Super Cup (1): 1983.

What has David Moyes won at Everton apart from some manager awards ?
At the end of the day Moyes is a decent manager and is highly regarded in the game. However unfortunately these qualities alone fall way short as pointing to being a success at a club as big as United.
Ferguson as everyone knows recommended David Moyes to be the next manager of this great club. Even Ferguson must now admit that Moyes is not the right person to take the club forward.

Liam O

Blatter wrote: »

The squad as it is, is good enough to challenge for the PL imo and should be definitely in the top 4, but David Moyes...alas.

It's the fact that they are merely 'good enough' that's problematic. For the first time in a long time teams are thinking and almost expecting they can get points off United. A lot of the players aren't used to teams with that mentality. Evra could get away with not tracking back. Carrick and Cleverley had time to look forward. Young and Valencia had players bailing out their poor performances. The players are stuck in their ways and that's why an overhaul is needed which there are already clear plans for I'd say.

Leroy42

Very good post on football365.com today regarding the fallacy of stability in football.

Once the nonesense is cut through the article shows that many big clubs actually aim for instability and even SAF did himself. If the manager isn't working out then change it. Mancini wasn't doing the business for City so they got rid, and they are better for it. Arsenal have been the model of stability and what have they won? While it can be argued both ways, stability should not a goal in itself.

Stability is not blindly continuing with something that isn't working. The team is falling apart before our eyes and people want Moyes to continue that. He really had a fairly easy job to pull off. Nobody expected him to set the world alright, most supporters were braced for losing the league but wanted to see a rebuild and reshaping process.

The fact that he has actually managed to make such a mess of it is enough for me. He now is faced with the tipping point. He simply cannot accept the performance from Tuesday and must be seen to act. If he really believes that these players are not good enough then why bother to continue playing them. Get some reserves in for the last few matches. Of course we will lose matches but what difference 12th place or 7th?

Moyes now has a chance to make his mark, so if he fails at least he fails on his terms. Rio/Valencia/Young/Cleverly all need to be dropped from the squad.

VP needs to be dropped for speaking out. Rooney should be dropped for such a pathetic display. Time for Moyes to grow a pair. Buying in new players is not the only way to make the team his. He needs to grab hold of them, leave them in no doubt who is in charge and be prepared to take them on.

SAF did it when he joined, he did it with Stam, Ince, Beckham & Keano. I'm sure Moyes didn't want to go this route but I don't think he has any choice left.

I believe that there is still a feeling of goodwill from most supporters, they don't want to call for him to go, they want to stick with SAF choice. But they need to see some evidence that he is the right man and in every department he is failing to project that.

DARK-KNIGHT

No

Some of the **** posted here in the last few pages is astonishing.... between utter drivel being spewed by some not namoling anyone as its obvious and petty squabbling and cock measuring between some other fans included makes me not wanna check back here for hours to see if it all calms down...

Im saying it now your wreckin my buzz

Liam O

Courtesy Flush wrote: »

Should Moyes be given all this money to spend in the summer?

He spent £27.5m on Marouane Fellaini, who spent Tuesday on the bench, and a club-record £37.1m on Juan Mata, whose best position is the same as Rooney's.

Mata's played most of his career on the wings, it's just a stick used to beat Moyes that he's somehow not a terrific player there. Fellaini only came back from a long layoff the other day. Mistake not playing him but these things happen.

DARK-KNIGHT

No

Courtesy Flush wrote: »

Should Moyes be given all this money to spend in the summer?

He spent £27.5m on Marouane Fellaini, who spent Tuesday on the bench, and a club-record £37.1m on Juan Mata, whose best position is the same as Rooney's.

Rooneys best position is up front

kstand

No

One thing glaringly obvious is the lack of pace in the side - everything done at a snails pace now. Madrid last night tore Shalke asunder with pace - we have nothing. Valencia has regressed so much he cant even get crosses over. We're flatter than water right now - and nothing has been done to address that.

bucketybuck

No

bangkok wrote: »

people calling for moyes to be sacked are 90's fans who knew nothing of united when they hadn't won a league in 26 years before fergie....

No, no, too obvious mate, you need to run a bit longer with the other routine first. There is loads of fishing left in that one.

bedrock#1

Just came up on my twitter feed a second ago, not had the chance to read it (bloody long). It's a story in the Observer from 2003 entitled 'Moyes Own Story'.

A week with, the then new, Everton boss.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2003/apr/06/football.newsstory?CMP=twt_gu

FourFourRED

No

United appear to have realeased an official iOS & Android App last night but disappeared for iOS at least, whatever happened it.

iPhone - http://t.co/rkPkkOFsEc
Android - http://t.co/1quHTGqAjS

SlickRic

Pighead wrote: »

This might have been a good post had you made it when it was announced Moyes was getting the job. As it is it's straying far too much into populist hindsight claptrap.

'He plays the most extreme form of percentage football I've ever seen' . You surely can't be serious with that sentence. Talk about hyperbole. Everton were actually quite an attacking outfit with Fellaini and Osman bombing forward supported by Baines/Coleman/Pienaar out wide.

Moyes will get through this season and be given at least a couple of months next season to see how he gets on with his new team. I'm not as convinced as most in here that he can't turn things around.

yes that sentence is hyperbole.

but he's never won anything of note.

the rest is with the help of hindsight, of course. but hindsight sometimes helps you see things that you perhaps should've seen before.

there's a reason he never looked like winning anything with Everton, even though he'd build a good side by his final year there. there's a reason his teams don't beat the top teams. he doesn't go after games. it's not in his mentality.

many of Utd's fans were worried by his appointment from the start for many of the reasons I've outlined with the help of hindsight. it's a not new thing that's being directed at Moyes. it's been there every since Moyes made Everton into a pretty decent side.

he doesn't win.

it's one of the reasons why comparisons with Fergie's reign are very stupid. Fergie is a winner. he had proven it.

Moyes has proven nothing in that regard, and has shown nothing to suggest he has that mentality.

inforfun

No

irishfeen wrote: »

Agree with Gilles on RVP - what he said last night was unforgivable... if he did that under SAF he might not take to the pitch again for United.

Max_Charger wrote: »

Did Giles just call RVP a prat?

Headshot wrote: »

He wouldn't say or need to say it under fergie

Soups123 wrote: »

RVP went way to far last night if I was a United fan is be really fcukin pissed undermining players and manager

Missed that last night on RTE.

Were they discussing what RvP said on Dutch television after the Olympiakos match?

gracehopper

Chicharito in a direct comment to RVP?

Pro. F

No

Liam O wrote: »

It's the fact that they are merely 'good enough' that's problematic. For the first time in a long time teams are thinking and almost expecting they can get points off United. A lot of the players aren't used to teams with that mentality. Evra could get away with not tracking back. Carrick and Cleverley had time to look forward. Young and Valencia had players bailing out their poor performances. The players are stuck in their ways and that's why an overhaul is needed which there are already clear plans for I'd say.

The squad is only good enough to compete for the league so that explains why they are miles off competing for the league and out of every cup bar one (and that one hanging by a thread). Yeah that is a logical conclusion.

Blatter

No

Liam O wrote: »

It's the fact that they are merely 'good enough' that's problematic. For the first time in a long time teams are thinking and almost expecting they can get points off United. A lot of the players aren't used to teams with that mentality. Evra could get away with not tracking back. Carrick and Cleverley had time to look forward. Young and Valencia had players bailing out their poor performances. The players are stuck in their ways and that's why an overhaul is needed which there are already clear plans for I'd say.

So you think the main difference between this season and the last few prior, is that the opposition have a different mentality and United don't have players 'bailing them out' as much as they used to?

I already replied to your 'bailing out' theory recently. Here is the post. The fact is that United do have big hitters scoring/contributing at fairly similar rates to previous seasons. What is clearly different to previous seasons is a lack of variety of goals. That is down to tactics.

As for the oppositions' mentality changing and conspiring against Moyes....sorry, I just can't buy that. Yeah sure, the mentality of the opposition has changed, there is more belief that they can beat United now. Why? Because they quite clearly can. Why? Because United are quite clearly not the same force as they were under Ferguson or the force they would likely be under any top manager.

googled eyes

gracehopper wrote: »

Chicharito in a direct comment to RVP?

Fair play to Hernandez. RVP wasn't up for the game the other night and was blaming his teammates trying to deflect attention from his own lazy game.

gracehopper

googled eyes wrote: »

Fair play to Hernandez. RVP wasn't up for the game the other night and was blaming his teammates trying to deflect attention from his own lazy game.

Agree completely. RVP was ****e and has been ****e since he came back goals or no goals. Body language is all wrong. Something is up with him.

bullvine

No

Dutch footballer in Bad Attitude shocker ....... Sooner or later this was gonna happen.

Lord TSC

No

Um...couldn't that comment equally be a message of support for RVP, thanking him and saying he values his teammates?

Not saying it is, but seems like it could be interpreted both ways...

Will I Amnt

No

bullvine wrote: »

Dutch footballer in Bad Attitude shocker ....... Sooner or later this was gonna happen.

Good old Xenophobia :pac:

Pro. F

No

inforfun wrote: »

Missed that last night on RTE.

Were they discussing what RvP said on Dutch television after the Olympiakos match?

Hey, do you speak Dutch and did you see his interview? If so what did you think of it and do you think it's been reported accurately?

googled eyes

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Um...couldn't that comment equally be a message of support for RVP, thanking him and saying he values his teammates?

Not saying it is, but seems like it could be interpreted both ways...

I'd wouldn't say it was a comment backing Van Persie.


Let's say you played for a team and one of your "star players" said that he played crap because of you and the other players.

Would you congratulate him on a good point?

Giles has a point about RVP.

tallaghtmick

No

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Good old Xenophobia :pac:

Did he play for Holland too

Pighead

SlickRic wrote: »

yes that sentence is hyperbole.

but he's never won anything of note.

the rest is with the help of hindsight, of course. but hindsight sometimes helps you see things that you perhaps should've seen before.

there's a reason he never looked like winning anything with Everton, even though he'd build a good side by his final year there. there's a reason his teams don't beat the top teams. he doesn't go after games. it's not in his mentality.

many of Utd's fans were worried by his appointment from the start for many of the reasons I've outlined with the help of hindsight. it's a not new thing that's being directed at Moyes. it's been there every since Moyes made Everton into a pretty decent side.

he doesn't win.

it's one of the reasons why comparisons with Fergie's reign are very stupid. Fergie is a winner. he had proven it.

Moyes has proven nothing in that regard, and has shown nothing to suggest he has that mentality.

'He doesn't win'
This crap is annoying. He has managed Everton for the majority of his career. Of course the chances of winning anything are lessened when you manage a club outside the top 4. Jack Wilshire doesn't win. Matt le Tissier didn't win. Tom Finney didn't win etc etc etc. by your logic players who show potential at mid table clubs should never be given a chance by the big teams as they've never won anything. Moyes is still a relatively young manager at 50.

What about the new Barca manager Martino? Don't think he's won much of note yet he's being given a shot at one of the best teams in world football. What about Rodgers ? I'm pretty sure you were questioning his suitability for the Liverpool horse at given his cv.

There are plenty of sticks to beat Moyes with but saying 'he's won nothing ergo he's rubbish' is simplistic in the extreme.

Lord TSC

No

I would agree to an extent it's not a fair stick to beat him with.


But the problem comes in the fact that when things start going south, he doesn't have previous victories as something to fall back upon. Previous success can go a long way towards relieving pressure, and Moyes doesn't have that to help him.

Cantona's Collars

So much for the much vaunted 'wait until Rooney & RVP click" statements,the most passes they played between each other this season is 12 in the 0-0 with Chelsea.That includes 1 from kick off.
Hard for them to link up when the edict is "get it wide & knock it in".

Cantona's Collars

FFS,just saw a tweet from ITV Sport saying that our rebuilding will begin with the signing of Aaron Lennon.....Don't we already have a right winger who's fast but has no end product?

Rayne Wooney

Using Moyes doesn't win trophies is a lazy argument when you have so much other ammo you can use.

He brought Everton from bottom of the table and sustained them on the coat-tails of the top 4/5 despite having hardly any budget in comparison. He's made that club into a guaranteed 8-5th place team which is an impressive feat in the PL. He doesn't need to have won trophies at Everton, what he did was top class.

Surely just looking at our tactics over the last 6 months, almost every single game we've been shocking, one dimensional embarrassments. 82 crosses at Fulham just summed up our whole season in one game. We looked 'okay' against Palace but it looks like that was just a mistake and shouldn't have happened, because in the next game he ruined whatever little hope he gave supporters in the Palace game.

For his apparent ineptness he needs to go, sure if we sign 2 or 3 world class players in the summer, and replace all of the deadwood, the results would be better. We'll get 4th, but with the team we would have and the right tactics they should really be challenging for the league. Which won't happen under Moyes.

Maximus Alexander

I would love nothing more than for Moyes to turn things around, but I can't see it happening at this stage. There have been no signs that he has the tactical nous or motivational ability to mount a title challenge. I would firmly agree that holding his lack of trophies prior to United against him is nonsense. Following that logic, how can any manager ever be appointed to a top club in order to start winning things? However, the decline of the performances since his take over can be held against him.

Naturally I, like everyone else, expected the club to fall down the table this season after losing the greatest manager the sport has ever seen. I expected performances to be a level below what they were last year, and I wouldn't hold that against Moyes. When you're looking at walking in to a club full of players who have played a chunk of, or even all of their careers under SAF, and on the back of a comfortable title win, I would expect to see any manager struggle to motivate those players.

For a long time I thought the only way to resolve this was to get rid of some of SAF's old guard. Indeed, I still do think that, and I expect that whether Moyes or someone else is in charge next season, performances will be much improved if there is significant activity in the summer transfer market.

However, the scale of the decline, and the fact that United have arguably continued to get worse under Moyes, is something that is difficult to explain by any other means than poor management. I think if Moyes is kept on he will make some good signings, and if so I'd be very confident he'll get top 4 next year, but I no longer believe that he'll ever have United mounting a title challenge.

inforfun

No

Pro. F wrote: »

Hey, do you speak Dutch and did you see his interview? If so what did you think of it and do you think it's been reported accurately?

That is why i was asking whether it was about the Dutch interview.
I am Dutch indeed, saw that interview and he didnt say anything shocking.

Havent seen or heard how that was translated, the part about the team mates.
It just came down to that he likes to exploit defences by running into available space but that against Olympiakos, these spaces were all the time occupied by team mates, in a way that it didnt makes sense for him to get in those positions as well.

Mitch Connor

No

zerks wrote: »

FFS,just saw a tweet from ITV Sport saying that our rebuilding will begin with the signing of Aaron Lennon.....Don't we already have a right winger who's fast but has no end product?

He gets to the bye-line really well.

SlickRic

Rodgers quickly adapted, Moyes has not. not even close.

if Rodgers hadn't adapted, there'd be pressure on him right now.

if Martino doesn't succeed this season, I suspect pressure will come on soon enough, but the thing is, they're still involved in the competitions that matter, so he's proving he can somewhat do the job despite his previous relative lack of success at the top end.

Moyes not winning anything, along with the fact his teams have struggled immensely against top opposition, are valid criticisms.

also Pighead, my logic isn't the all the best players play for the best teams. don't start twisting it into a different argument. Shearer is the best striker to grace the Premier League and he won one Premier League. Le Tissier is one of the most gifted ever yet won nothing.

also, I've not once said Moyes is rubbish. he's a good manager. IMO, you need a certain mentality to manage a team at the top of the food chain, and Moyes has not proven at all that he can do it.

certain managers suit certain kinds of clubs with certain types of goals. Rodgers had a pathetic spell at Reading, and you'd have never had him as someone who could cut it at the top level. he still has to prove it by the way. but you'd have never guessed back then he'd be able to do what he's being doing at Liverpool so far. but his philosophy seems to suit.

Moyes' style may just not suit Utd.

Rayne Wooney

Sifting through the poll it looks like at least 90% want him gone which seems to be mirrored in other forums and websites

the small minority left must be expecting a miracle either in Europe, or the league, or are stubborn in the "we don't sack managers" camp.

It won't be long until he's got no support

Agueroooo

The thing about Moyes is that if the owners are going to keep him then they need to back him financially or what's the point, or delay in sacking him?

It's only going to prolong the disruption if they don't give him a rebuild budget.

classic case of back him or sack him.

bangkok

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Sifting through the poll it looks like at least 90% want him gone which seems to be mirrored in other forums and websites

the small minority left must be expecting a miracle either in Europe, or the league, or are stubborn in the "we don't sack managers" camp.

It won't be long until he's got no support

do any of ye go to away man utd games??? I do so I reckon im in a good position to say that most of the hardcore fans, "true fans" not glory hunters are still behind moyes

Agueroooo

bangkok wrote: »

do any of ye go to away man utd games??? I do so I reckon im in a good position to say that most of the hardcore fans, "true fans" not glory hunters are still behind moyes

ding ding ding ding

adox

No

bangkok wrote: »

do any of ye go to away man utd games??? I do so I reckon im in a good position to say that most of the hardcore fans, "true fans" not glory hunters are still behind moyes

Thats right. You havent missed a game in 20 years!

Pro. F

No

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Using Moyes doesn't win trophies is a lazy argument when you have so much other ammo you can use.

He brought Everton from bottom of the table and sustained them on the coat-tails of the top 4/5 despite having hardly any budget in comparison. He's made that club into a guaranteed 8-5th place team which is an impressive feat in the PL. He doesn't need to have won trophies at Everton, what he did was top class.

Surely just looking at our tactics over the last 6 months, almost every single game we've been shocking, one dimensional embarrassments. 82 crosses at Fulham just summed up our whole season in one game. We looked 'okay' against Palace but it looks like that was just a mistake and shouldn't have happened, because in the next game he ruined whatever little hope he gave supporters in the Palace game.

For his apparent ineptness he needs to go, sure if we sign 2 or 3 world class players in the summer, and replace all of the deadwood, the results would be better. We'll get 4th, but with the team we would have and the right tactics they should really be challenging for the league. Which won't happen under Moyes.

Have you any solid evidence to show that Moyes consistently outperformed his transfer+wage budget at Everton? I know that is what is generally accepted as truth, but that doesn't make it true.

bangkok

adox wrote: »

Thats right. You havent missed a game in 20 years!

u wanted moyes gone after 4 months in charge!!! I reckon your only supporting united last 10-15 years??

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Sifting through the poll it looks like at least 90% want him gone which seems to be mirrored in other forums and websites

the small minority left must be expecting a miracle either in Europe, or the league, or are stubborn in the "we don't sack managers" camp.

It won't be long until he's got no support

Do those 90% want him gone without a possible successor already being lined up or do they think United have already spoken to someone?

deisedevil

bangkok wrote: »

do any of ye go to away man utd games??? I do so I reckon im in a good position to say that most of the hardcore fans, "true fans" not glory hunters are still behind moyes

I don't go to games regularly but from those I know who do they have been saying that the hardcore fans are still trying to get behind him. Fergie's words are still ringing in their ears.

Chances are the most of those still being vocally supportive have different opinions at the back of their mind that could surface eventually.

I'll see for myself at OT vs. Pool. Chances of a bit of revenge are dwindling unfortunately.

KombuchaMshroom

No

2 points I want to make to the people who are still (stubbornly imo) sticking with Moyes and saying we have to support him no matter what:

1) Sven Goran Erikson said a few months ago that he had agreed to take over back in 2003 when Fergie original thought about retiring, but thankfully he changed his mind. It's clear to see from Sven's managerial record since that he would have been an awful choice, but would those of you saying we have to stick with Moyes just because he was the one who was picked be saying the same thing about Sven, or any other manager for that fact, simply because they were who Fergie picked to succeed him, regardless of the results they were achieving?
If we can get it so wrong with Sven in 03 no reason we couldn't be equally as wrong this time around.

2) For people saying Moyes still deserves more time to get his own team together and make his mark, 4 of the 6 managers ahead of us in the league, Mourinho Pelligrini Sherwood and Martinez, have all also taken over this year, so why don't they need as long to take over and why aren't any of them performing as incompetently as Moyes, especially considering none of them took over the champions. (repeating a point I made on Tuesday night that got lost among all the uproar)