Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod Warning: Post #7871

The_Kew_Tour

No

Agueroooo wrote: »

The thing about Moyes is that if the owners are going to keep him then they need to back him financially or what's the point, or delay in sacking him?

It's only going to prolong the disruption if they don't give him a rebuild budget.

classic case of back him or sack him.

The contract maybe.

I think there might be something in contract about not getting CL football.

Thats just theory. Might not be in it, I bloody hope it is.

adox

No

bangkok wrote: »

u wanted moyes gone after 4 months in charge!!! I reckon your only supporting united last 10-15 years??

Wrong.

Rayne Wooney

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Do those 90% want him gone without a possible successor already being lined up or do they think United have already spoken to someone?

It's a yes or no poll so hard to distinguish

bangkok

deisedevil wrote: »

I don't go to games regularly but from those I know who do they have been saying that the hardcore fans are still trying to get behind him. Fergie's words are still ringing in their ears.

Chances are the most of those still being vocally supportive have different opinions at the back of their mind that could surface eventually.

I'll see for myself at OT vs. Pool. Chances of a bit of revenge are dwindling unfortunately.

of course they have, I am the same, I questioned the other night when I seen Valencia young and clev all starting but I am prepared to give him until the summer to clear players out and buy his own, I will judge him then.....

user2011

No

Aodhagan wrote: »

United appear to have realeased an official iOS & Android App last night but disappeared for iOS at least, whatever happened it.

iPhone - http://t.co/rkPkkOFsEc
Android - http://t.co/1quHTGqAjS

Hmm nothing mentioned any where from United about this? Manutd.com or the twitter feed.

Rayne Wooney

Pro. F wrote: »

Have you any solid evidence to show that Moyes consistently outperformed his transfer+wage budget at Everton? I know that is what is generally accepted as truth, but that doesn't make it true.

Consistently outperformed who?

In his time at Everton 35m net spend is fairly impressive. I haven't got the wages and I doubt anybody will but I personally think he would have had them under control.

If you factor in players he bought and the club sold the summer 2013 he left, Fellaini, Jelavic, and Anichiebe, his net spend goes below the 0 mark.

KombuchaMshroom

No

bangkok wrote: »

of course they have, I am the same, I questioned the other night when I seen Valencia young and clev all starting but I am prepared to give him until the summer to clear players out and buy his own, I will judge him then.....

The problem a lot of people have with that though is that it would appear from his team selections and the attitude of certain players towards him, that potential players to be moved on could easily be Kagawa Rvp Rafael Nani Hernandez, while the likes of Cleverley Valencia and Young will be kept on, causing even more damage to the club than he has already caused.

I understand some people wanting to give him another summer to see what he does with the team, but if he f**ks that up too, then we will have taken even larger steps backwards plus we will have to wait another 12 months before a new manager has a window for him to try and build his team, meaning the gap between us and those ahead of us will only get bigger in the mean time

irishfeen

Lads why aren't we playing this weekend??

The_Kew_Tour

No

KombuchaMshroom wrote: »

The problem a lot of people have with that though is that it would appear from his team selections and the attitude of certain players towards him, that potential players to be moved on could easily be Kagawa Rvp Rafael Nani Hernandez, while the likes of Cleverley Valencia and Young will be kept on, causing even more damage to the club than he has already caused.

I understand some people wanting to give him another summer to see what he does with the team, but if he f**ks that up too, then we will have taken even larger steps backwards plus we will have to wait another 12 months before a new manager has a window for him to try and build his team, meaning the gap between us and those ahead of us will only get bigger in the mean time

Good point.

Enough damage is already done.

Lucas Hood

No

irishfeen wrote: »

Lads why aren't we playing this weekend??

We were due to play City but they play in Capital one cup final.

aperture_nuig

irishfeen wrote: »

Lads why aren't we playing this weekend??

Because we're not able for another 90 minutes of that shit yet.

Mikeyt086

No

bangkok wrote: »

u wanted moyes gone after 4 months in charge!!! I reckon your only supporting united last 10-15 years??

I've been a United fan since 19 dickety 2, back when we were called the Manchester Dandys!

irishfeen

aperture_nuig wrote: »

Because we're not able for another 90 minutes of that shit yet.

Actually wasn't too bad against Palace...

The_Kew_Tour

No

Imagine playing City of the back of last couple of weeks this weekend.

phew!!!!!!!!

Thank you Sunderland and crap penalty takers.

Pighead

SlickRic wrote: »

Rodgers quickly adapted, Moyes has not. not even close.

if Rodgers hadn't adapted, there'd be pressure on him right now.

Quickly adapted? Eh you might want to take a look back at the Liverpool thread from this time last year. Early Feb and Rodgers had been in the job the same length of time as Moyes. He had lost an FA Cup to Oldham and a home tie against West Brom in the space of two weeks. The knives were very much out for him.

grames_bond

bangkok wrote: »

u wanted moyes gone after 4 months in charge!!! I reckon your only supporting united last 10-15 years??

Who cares how long he has been a supporter for?! He is as entitled to an opinion as you are!

irishfeen

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Imagine playing City of the back of last couple of weeks this weekend.

phew!!!!!!!!

Thank you Sunderland and crap penalty takers.

I'd still prefer to be there and at least have a chance then not be there at all - thrashing or no trashing...

CSF

No

Pro. F wrote: »

Arteta, Jagielka, Distin are a few more I can think of. He bought a few players good enough for top 4 imo. I wouldn't have enough detailed information about the budget to know whether to call his transfer work exceptional or not myself.

Yeah Arteta actually, Jagielka and Distin have never been top 4 players.

The_Kew_Tour

No

irishfeen wrote: »

I'd still prefer to be there and at least have a chance then not be there at all - thrashing or no trashing...

hmmm kinda yes and kinda no....It all depends how well City play at weekend.

if they destroy Sunderland then I be thanking the stars, although I think it will be good game and closer then some think.

I know a Sunderland fan from the area itself, living over here, sound bloke, so for him I like see Sunderland win it.

Kess73

Mod Post: There are a small group of posters doing their best to ruin a number of threads in this forum, including this thread, with their attempts to bait each other and settle some childish online scores.


Does not matter who you support or what imaginary online "scores" you think you are trying to settle, if you want to bait/troll/flame/bully/isolate any poster in this forum, then you can get used to the idea of posting somewhere else.

No more warnings

Pro. F

No

inforfun wrote: »

That is why i was asking whether it was about the Dutch interview.
I am Dutch indeed, saw that interview and he didnt say anything shocking.

Havent seen or heard how that was translated, the part about the team mates.
It just came down to that he likes to exploit defences by running into available space but that against Olympiakos, these spaces were all the time occupied by team mates, in a way that it didnt makes sense for him to get in those positions as well.

Thanks for that.

It sounds like the translations we were given were fairly accurate so. Nothing shocking that he said really.

But the timing was poor imo. After a big loss I'd rather a player toe the party line and not go into such detail. The manager would be justified in giving RVP a bit of punishment, but it's no big deal. The press will pretend it's a big deal, but it would all blow over with a few wins.

Speaking about player reactions after a bad result, what about Pelle at the weekend? Now that was a proper tantrum

DARK-KNIGHT

No

bangkok wrote: »

u wanted moyes gone after 4 months in charge!!! I reckon your only supporting united last 10-15 years??

Only seen your post kess apologies edited and mod poibt taken onboard

irishfeen

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

hmmm kinda yes and kinda no....It all depends how well City play at weekend.

if they destroy Sunderland then I be thanking the stars, although I think it will be good game and closer then some think.

I know a Sunderland fan from the area itself, living over here, sound bloke, so for him I like see Sunderland win it.

Ah Kew get out of it :eek: - it's still a cup final ... and who would have known maybe they could have had an off day and we could have raised our game ... I'd have taken the chance any day of the week anyway.

... and yeah I hope Sunderland pull something out of the bag too and get a sneaky win

ronjo

What would you guys think of Mancini as a replacement?

Probably not that popular I would imagine but I was reading he supposedly wants to come back to England.
Someone else for Mourinho to fight with regularly.

The_Kew_Tour

No

irishfeen wrote: »

Ah Kew get out of it :eek: - it's still a cup final ... and who would have known maybe they could have had an off day and we could have raised our game ... I'd have taken the chance any day of the week anyway.

... and yeah I hope Sunderland pull something out of the bag too and get a sneaky win

Tbh while come 3pm Sunday I be roaring like any cup final. I think most of the roaring would be behind the chair in case it got nasty on scoreboard.

Not saying im happy not to be in it, rather have won semi final, but just looking at the positives

aperture_nuig

irishfeen wrote: »

Actually wasn't too bad against Palace...

I'll give you that one, but the performances lately (even if you leave out Olympiacos) have not been easy on the eye, to say the least.

K-9

No

Pighead wrote: »

Quickly adapted? Eh you might want to take a look back at the Liverpool thread from this time last year. Early Feb and Rodgers had been in the job the same length of time as Moyes. He had lost an FA Cup to Oldham and a home tie against West Brom in the space of two weeks. The knives were very much out for him.

I'd say 7 or 8 posters at most, a couple of those had it in for him from the start. We brought in Sturridge and Coutinho and the league results improved from then on.

Nearly the opposite to this thread with maybe 7/8 posters wanting Moyes to stay, and even a few of those need to see a change in results in the next month.

When maybe close to 90% of the fans here are against him, a couple of other United fan sites as well, it's only a matter of time before the Old Trafford crowd becomes restless. Going out of the CL to Olympiakos could be the final nail in the coffin. You'll probably always have 10% of the fan base who'll back him regardless of going out of the CL, finishing 6/7th.

If he stays, you then have a manager that the big majority of fans have no particular faith in, playing a big part in identifying signings, older players leaving, players needed to be replaced and maybe a couple of players not exactly enamoured with him as a manager. Maybe he can turn it around, he had a slump or 2 at Everton as well.

I backed Hodgson as well until the football became nearly unwatchable and dreaded watching Liverpool play, the results eventually killed it for him. He gave nothing to believe he could turn things round. There was plenty of belief by United fans that Moyes could do a job, get top 3 at a minimum, then it became we'll still get 4th, then it was the cups, then the only thing left was the CL and he'd done well enough in that. Olympiakos is the only thing left really, getting a feel good win over Liverpool or City is hardly acceptable and changes nothing.

The_Kew_Tour

No

ronjo wrote: »

What would you guys think of Mancini as a replacement?

Probably not that popular I would imagine but I was reading he supposedly wants to come back to England.
Someone else for Mourinho to fight with regularly.

God nooooooooo!!!!!!!

He can stay in Turkey.

irishfeen

ronjo wrote: »

What would you guys think of Mancini as a replacement?

Probably not that popular I would imagine but I was reading he supposedly wants to come back to England.
Someone else for Mourinho to fight with regularly.

No point in thinking about it a while anyway imo - i'd say the club will give at least to the end of the season even if things continue.

ronjo

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

God nooooooooo!!!!!!!

He can stay in Turkey.

Fair enough.
Maybe I am just thinking of the entertainment

LuckyLloyd

No

Pighead wrote: »

'He doesn't win'
This crap is annoying. He has managed Everton for the majority of his career. Of course the chances of winning anything are lessened when you manage a club outside the top 4. Jack Wilshire doesn't win. Matt le Tissier didn't win. Tom Finney didn't win etc etc etc. by your logic players who show potential at mid table clubs should never be given a chance by the big teams as they've never won anything. Moyes is still a relatively young manager at 50.

What about the new Barca manager Martino? Don't think he's won much of note yet he's being given a shot at one of the best teams in world football. What about Rodgers ? I'm pretty sure you were questioning his suitability for the Liverpool horse at given his cv.

There are plenty of sticks to beat Moyes with but saying 'he's won nothing ergo he's rubbish' is simplistic in the extreme.

If this was Everton and they had the same points total / results and performances to date Moyes would be under no pressure. There might be some dissatisfaction at the club but, overall, relative to budget and expectation levels he'd be doing acceptably. That's a huge issue whether you are interested in seeing it or not. I believe I said something similar when he was hired too but no doubt you'll condradict as required.

The_Kew_Tour

No

ronjo wrote: »

Fair enough.
Maybe I am just thinking of the entertainment

I would nearly rather keep Moyes

Nearly:pac:

irishfeen

aperture_nuig wrote: »

I'll give you that one, but the performances lately (even if you leave out Olympiacos ) have not been easy on the eye, to say the least.

You see I don't understand why he went backwards against Olympiacos - why in the christ did he send out that team is annoying me the most and i'm still pro Moyes ... it seemed he was playing for a 1-0 win or a draw but why is the big question.

ronjo

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I would nearly rather keep Moyes

Nearly:pac:

Haha..... He did win the league in two different countries though.

Rubber_Soul

No

KombuchaMshroom wrote: »

2 points I want to make to the people who are still (stubbornly imo) sticking with Moyes and saying we have to support him no matter what:

1) Sven Goran Erikson said a few months ago that he had agreed to take over back in 2003 when Fergie original thought about retiring, but thankfully he changed his mind. It's clear to see from Sven's managerial record since that he would have been an awful choice, but would those of you saying we have to stick with Moyes just because he was the one who was picked be saying the same thing about Sven, or any other manager for that fact, simply because they were who Fergie picked to succeed him, regardless of the results they were achieving?
If we can get it so wrong with Sven in 03 no reason we couldn't be equally as wrong this time around.

Fergie wasn't involved in the decision to go for Sven, he didn't actually rate him according to his autobiography.

Pighead

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

If this was Everton and they had the same points total / results and performances to date Moyes would be under no pressure. There might be some dissatisfaction at the club but, overall, relative to budget and expectation levels he'd be doing acceptably. That's a huge issue whether you are interested in seeing it or not. I believe I said something similar when he was hired too but no doubt you'll condradict as required.

I have two problems with some of these issues being thrown about.

My problem is equating no medals with no talent. Moyes did a very good job at Everton. Generally when you do a good job somewhere you get offered a better job somewhere else.

Also the short term nature of judging football managers. The man has managed Man Utd for six months.

You've seen yourself at your club the benefit of affording the manager time to see if he can turn things around.

Moyes may well fail but give him a chance.

Your Airbag

This has to be the worst year for fighting on the thread. We need a better way of settling arguments than thread de-railling or take it to PM.

I propose a FIFA or FM head to head between two parties whenever a fight breaks out. We can turn it into the Bragging rights League too.

Each player selects UTD and then uses their own formation and first eleven based on whatever argument they were having. For example Pro F would line up with Clev in his MF and I would go with anyone else available.

Given that FMs scouting database is highly regarded so much so that teams actually pay for access to it (Real Madrid and Everton had a deal with them and other big clubs are rumored to also have deals) and that the EA player index is thought of highly, used by Sky and updated weekly to reflect in and out of from players, it should be fool proof and the loser of a match will have to bow down and acknowledge his counter parts superior deity status within the thread.

A google doc will have to be created to allow users to enter their username, gamerID, console (PC, PS3or4) and preferred game title (Fifa or FM) and final score of a grudge match. With both parties having to select UTD I will have to assign a team name so we can maintain a leader board of who is the ultimate Jose or Pep of the thread if it takes off.

Then the mods will no longer have to say take it to PM. Instead we can say to each other "I challenge you to a duel" instead.

Think about it people. The Logic is 100% flawless.

irishfeen

Pighead wrote: »

I have two problems with some of these issues being thrown about.

My problem is equating no medals with no talent. Moyes did a very good job at Everton. Generally when you do a good job somewhere you get offered a better job somewhere else.

Also the short term nature of judging football managers. The man has managed Man Utd for six months.

You've seen yourself at your club the benefit of affording the manager time to see if he can turn things around.

Moyes may well fail but give him a chance.

People ask how I can still defend Moyes as a United supporter - its this reason exactly... I refuse not to give the man a chance before he buys his own players and plays the way he wants.... if after that it doesn't work out then fine i'll hold my hands up and admit I got it wrong.

Rayne Wooney

The similarities are there between this thread and Pool one last year, moaning about interviews, team selections, saying he's not up to it etc

But the main point is that Rodgers had a distinct philosophy he was working towards, some still wanted him out anyways, but Moyes has shown us nothing like that

If it looked like Moyes was working towards something better there's no doubt I'd be behind him and I'm sure most of the support would be as well, but he simply hasn't given us that impression

The_Kew_Tour

No

You see people will refer to giving Fergie time.

The difference is Fergie took over a team that was what 21st in the league? at the time. He took over a team that had not won a league in 17 years.

He took over a team that was basically a pub team. A pub team of alcoholics

ronjo

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

The similarities are there between this thread and Pool one last year, moaning about interviews, team selections, saying he's not up to it etc

But the main point is that Rodgers had a distinct philosophy he was working towards, some still wanted him out anyways, but Moyes has shown us nothing like that

If it looked like Moyes was working towards something better there's no doubt I'd be behind him and I'm sure most of the support would be as well, but he simply hasn't given us that impression

Also, Liverpool and United were coming from different positions in the league and with different expectations.

If United were in Liverpools position right now then very few fans would be looking backwards down the table...... just upwards.

Backstreet Moyes

irishfeen wrote: »

Actually wasn't too bad against Palace...

Yes because for the first time he abandoned his dreadful crossing tactic and we played good football which gave me a glimmer of hope. Tuesday in the biggest game left in our season he went back to the tactics and players who were failing. For that alone i think he deserves to go he needs to show some backbone.

irishfeen

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

The similarities are there between this thread and Pool one last year, moaning about interviews, team selections, saying he's not up to it etc

But the main point is that Rodgers had a distinct philosophy he was working towards, some still wanted him out anyways, but Moyes has shown us nothing like that

If it looked like Moyes was working towards something better there's no doubt I'd be behind him and I'm sure most of the support would be as well, but he simply hasn't given us that impression

Do you think he has the players to stamp his own philosophy? - I think we can all agree that 7/8 players in our squad are no where near good enough to compete at the highest level in England don't mind Europe ... did Moyes know how average some of the players are (through no fault of their own)? No! ... was the greatest manager in the history of club football getting 110% out of players last season? - very much yes on the evidence we see before our eyes.

bangkok

United not playing until the 8th of march again.... we should all end the moyes debate now. give him until the summer see where we are then, see where the club want to go with him and the players we are going to sign. going to be a very long week in here if everyone keeps fighting and arguing

Pro. F

No

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Consistently outperformed who?

In his time at Everton 35m net spend is fairly impressive. I haven't got the wages and I doubt anybody will but I personally think he would have had them under control.

If you factor in players he bought and the club sold the summer 2013 he left, Fellaini, Jelavic, and Anichiebe, his net spend goes below the 0 mark.

Consistently out performed other teams on similar budgets. It's a simple concept. You are saying that he did a top class job at Everton because he was on a small budget yet you are not comparing his budget to the other teams he was competing against. You are even ignoring wages completely and talking about players that were sold after he left the club.

All you have is an impression that he did a good job at Everton, you haven't actually looked into it or thought about it past the first level of complexity. I'm in the same boat of not knowing all the relevant details, but I hold my hands up to that lack of knowledge and don't take the impressions we have as a certain truth.

irishfeen

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

You see people will refer to giving Fergie time.

The difference is Fergie took over a team that was what 21st in the league? at the time. He took over a team that had not won a league in 17 years.

He took over a team that was basically a pub team. A pub team of alcoholics

But under any other manager in world football could Manchester United have won the league title last season? - I very very much doubt it.

The_Kew_Tour

No

irishfeen wrote: »

But under any other manager in world football could Manchester United have won the league title last season? - I very very much doubt it.

Think Jose, Pep would have more likely got us over the line. I think we would have won league still with these lads. Fergie was a big difference. Dont think he was 11 points difference though.

irishfeen

Nuts102 wrote: »

Yes because for the first time he abandoned his dreadful crossing tactic and we played good football which gave me a glimmer of hope. Tuesday in the biggest game left in our season he went back to the tactics and players who were failing. For that alone i think he deserves to go he needs to show some backbone.

That's exactly why i'm so confused about that CL team selection ... if he plays the same team with the same tactics for the rest of the 11 games we will start turning a corner ... my only hope is that result will totally end any doubt in his head that it might work and never again try it.

Pro. F

No

CSF wrote: »

Yeah Arteta actually, Jagielka and Distin have never been top 4 players.

They've never played for top 4 teams, but they definitely had more than enough quality.

The_Kew_Tour

No

irishfeen wrote: »

That's exactly why i'm so confused about that CL team selection ...

There should have been only 1 change from last week and that was Kagawa in for Mata.

The rest picked itself.

It showed a lack of belief in his team that he had to go change it around. It was the last straw for me.

How many people said it when they heard the team that they were changing their predictions. Some were maybe little too confident of winning well, but it become a game where we could win it to a game where we be doing well to get a draw.

All because of Moyes. He did not have to start Cleverley and Valenca and he did. He deserves a lot of flak for it.