Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod Warning: Post #7871

Deiseboy01

BloodBath wrote: »

Ok those sale prices are in Euro. I forgot to convert them but even at that they will be only slightly less so say £50M for the lot.

You need to spend £30m+ these days for a good player. 1/3 of that for those players is not unreasonable.

If you had said the prices were in Albanian dog biscuits I would have agreed.

Elro

Pighead wrote: »

No it's not. Relegation would be a calamity. A bottom half finish could probably be considered a calamity. A 5th/6th place finish while very disappointing cannot be described as a calamity.

Why not? If it happened to Chelsea, Arsenal, Man City or any other top European teams United should be competing with they'd consider it a calamity. Why is it not when it happens to United?

Deiseboy01

Paully D wrote: »

I agree that the center of midfield is a position they need to improve on, they still do because Fellaini is not good enough in my opinion. Almost £30m for him was laughable in any case.

Is Fellaini a holding player? A more attacking player? Or a box-to-box player? It seems Moyes doesn't even know his best position given how often he changed him between roles at Everton. I would personally say more of a holding player and Fellaini himself says he prefers to play that role, but Carrick is more than sufficient for the vast majority of games in that position.

I think having both Van Persie and Rooney plus Mata doesn't help things either. It's no secret that all three will be playing every week when fit which means they virtually have to go 4-4-2. That means Mata can't play in his proper, most effective position as a number 10 and United are caught between playing both Carrick and Fellaini in 4 man midfield or dropping one. Go to more of a 4-3-3 and you still have Mata out of position plus Rooney.

I'm gone off topic from your response to my post I know so apologies for rambling, but it seems to me like Moyes has bought a couple of players he has liked rather than having any clear idea about systems or tactics in relation to using those players. Look at the difference between what such a successful manager in Mourinho did at Chelsea for example. Mata didn't fit into his system/tactical plans, he didn't get into the team because of that. He did the same with Pepe and Verane at Madrid.

After spending around £65m are they any really better off in terms of their areas of need? I would argue no. It says a lot when Wayne Rooney is being used in central midfield at times.

Fellaini is clearly Carricks replacement. We need another CM to play alongside Fellaini.

Liam O

Pighead wrote: »

The season isn't over yet. You can't say they've gone from Champions to 7th when the season is still underway. Especially given the fact they are actually 6th. And that Champions League tie is far from over. If Utd finish 5th and get to the quarter finals of the Champs League would you still call it a calamity?

It is a calamity but sure, United were due one sooner or later so I'm not going to throw my toys out of the pram. Every big team has them. Fergie's brilliance kept the team from having any for a while and his mistakes have helped cause this one. Moyes will bring in the right players I have no doubt. The tactics I do doubt but it will be after the summer spree that I judge them.

Blatter

No

Pighead wrote: »

I am not disagreeing with you about Jose's talents as a manager. He's clearly one of the top managers in the game. But in my opinion he walked into a better situation at Chelsea than Moyes did at Utd.

Ok, but we can agree that the situations were at the least not that much different?

Yet one manager has the team top of the league playing a clear, developing style of football and the other one has his team 11 points outside the top 4 whilst playing turgid football that has actually got worst as the season has gone on.

Ability wise, Mourinho and Moyes are miles apart. I appreciate that a manager of Mourinho's quality isn't always available but United, with the resources and ambition they have, should have a manager at least somewhat close to Mourinho's ability.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Nice to see Gary Neville speaking sense and telling it like it is. He's one of the most knowledgeable pundits in the game.

I see the hysteria around here is such that now Neville is being pilloried and having his integrity called into question.

Of course Keane the other night also blasted the players and didn't suggest Moyes should be sacked. He can't be accused of towing the line since he's hardly likely to want to defend the chap that Fergie selected as his successor.

The reality is no ex-United player has come out and called on Moyes to be sacked.

He'll be given more time and rightly so.

1) How can his integrity on the matter not be called into question when his brother is part of the coaching set up?

2) He could be accused of towing the 'Ferguson left the squad in bad shape' line given his evident bitterness towards the man.

3) The reality is that if Ferguson hadn't picked Moyes himself and made that 'stand by your new manager' speech, and if Moyes wasn't British, there'd be plenty of ex United players calling for him to be sacked.

Deiseboy01

BloodBath wrote: »

I said 10-15M ffs. Most if not all of those players would sell for at least £10M.

The valuations I got were taken from. If you know of a better more reliable source then link it. Otherwise shut up.

http://www.transfermarkt.com/en/

Their prices are already driven down and those values reflect that. We could have got at least double for all of them 2-3 years ago. Nani could have sold for 30M+ 3 seasons ago.

Seriously what are you smoking and can I have some? 30m Nani?!!!

DARK-KNIGHT

No

To think i was optimistic at start of season for us to finish top 3 and having a right go at winning the league.....

How ****ing deluded was i?

Moyes out

K-9

No

Liam O wrote: »

It is a calamity but sure, United were due one sooner or later so I'm not going to throw my toys out of the pram. Every big team has them. Fergie's brilliance kept the team from having any for a while and his mistakes have helped cause this one. Moyes will bring in the right players I have no doubt. The tactics I do doubt but it will be after the summer spree that I judge them.

Going from 1st to 6/7th is a calamity, can't see how anybody could argue otherwise, I doubt anybody saying it isn't even thought it was possible in the Summer. Blackburn were the last, Rafa probably nearest in recent times and he lost his job.

MisterAnarchy

No

Blatter wrote: »

Martino has kept Barcelona competing to a similar standard in comparison to last season despite the issues. He is performing at a reasonable level relative to expectations. The issues have not been magnified as a result.

Well if you are to believe the rumours coming out of Spain ,Martino could be out of a job in the summer.
He could still win 3 trophies and is under fire.

Moyes on the other hand ,is clinging to hope in one tournament,will be out of the Champions league next season ,is alienating his older players ,playing caveman football and refusing to drop players who are in diabolical form.

Quandary

No

I've been willing to give Moyes a chance but everything we've seen so far on the pitch suggests he is lost IMO.

Aside from giving Januzaj more of a shot than Fergie most likely would, tying Rooney into a long term deal, and signing Fellaini to try and address the midfield, what has he done?

I want to give the man a real chance but please, someone tell me what he has done in the last 7months to deserve another season managing the most successful club in the history of the premier league?

That Olympiakos game ripped away any hope I had.

EDIT: that green smiley was an accident!

Will I Amnt

No

Deiseboy01 wrote: »

Seriously what are you smoking and can I have some? 30m Nani?!!!

The form Nani was in back then I'd have wanted 25m minimum if he had to go.

The_Kew_Tour

No

Pighead wrote: »

The season isn't over yet. You can't say they've gone from Champions to 7th when the season is still underway. Especially given the fact they are actually 6th. And that Champions League tie is far from over. If Utd finish 5th and get to the quarter finals of the Champs League would you still call it a calamity?

We have 1 game where we are 2-0 down, in a situation that has only been overturned once in 21 years.

Does not fill me with too much heart.

Lose that and the season is over.

Even if we were to win if we play like we did Tuesday we could beat Barca 7-0 drubbing record in the next round no matter who we play.

I hope you're right though. I would be only too happy to be proven wrong believe me.

RobertKK

Johnny Giles said if he was manager of United he would play the following team:

---

de Gea

---

Rafael----Smalling----Jones----Evra

---

Rooney

---

Mata----
Valencia/Young---Kagawa---Januzaj

---

RVP

---

Says Cleverley and Carrick not good enough. Rooney moved there for a temporary period. Nani not good enough either.

The_Kew_Tour

No

RobertKK wrote: »

Johnny Giles said if he was manager of United he would play the following team:

---

de Gea

---

Rafael----Smalling----Jones----Evra

---

Rooney

---

Mata----
Valencia/Young---Kagawa---Januzaj

---

RVP

---

Says Cleverley and Carrick not good enough. Rooney moved there for a temporary period. Nani not good enough either.

Rooney and Mata as our CM??????:eek:

Whatsisname

No

RobertKK wrote: »

Johnny Giles said if he was manager of United he would play the following team:

---

de Gea

---

Rafael----Smalling----Jones----Evra

---

Rooney

---

Mata----
Valencia/Young---Kagawa---Januzaj

---

RVP

---

Says Cleverley and Carrick not good enough. Rooney moved there for a temporary period. Nani not good enough either.

Rooney and Mata in cm? thats football suicide

Will I Amnt

No

RobertKK wrote: »

Johnny Giles said if he was manager of United he would play the following team:

---

de Gea

---

Rafael----Smalling----Jones----Evra

---

Rooney

---

Mata----
Valencia/Young---Kagawa---Januzaj

---

RVP

---

Says Cleverley and Carrick not good enough. Rooney moved there for a temporary period. Nani not good enough either.

Johnny Giles is mad as a box of frogs.

RobertKK

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Rooney and Mata as our CM??????:eek:

Whatsisname wrote: »

Rooney and Mata in cm? thats football suicide

Yeah, he says Carrick and Cleverley offer nothing there and that Mata and Rooney would do a better job.

MisterAnarchy

No

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Rooney and Mata as our CM??????:eek:

Could work ,it couldnt be any worse that the current central midfielders.
You could play Fellaini in behind them.
Rooney would throw a fit if asked to play in midfield though .

The_Kew_Tour

No

Put Fellaini where Mata is and Mata where 2 V's are and we have something, maybe.

Also Carrick positional work was excellent the other night. Broke down number dangerous areas, sadly he had nobody to help him out. Poor second half, but could been worse on scoreboard only for him.

Rayne Wooney

Even Johnny fcuking Giles puts Kagawa in the god damn hole :pac:


If that's not a barometer of how out of touch Moyes is I don't know what is

ManofStraw

No

I don't post a lot but was thinking about the Moyes situation on the way home from work. I think that most of the things he has done off the pitch have been positive eg signing Rooney to a new contract, identifying areas of weakness in the team and being seen to be doing a lot of scouting and trying to get players in. The summer transfer market was a disaster, but I am willing to put that down to the learning experience.

On the pitch it has just been a complete disaster to put it nicely. I think our set up is overly cautious and Moyes sees to be afraid of changing things up. Mid-week for example why wait until the 80th min to bring on Kagawa and Welbeck. At Everton his teams always looked so solid defensively but defensively we just look so porous and frail at the moment. There also seems to be no overall vision as to how the team wants to play. Moyes just doesn't seem to have a philosophy on how we should play.

I think Moyes is a good manager and I have tons of respect for what he did at Everton. As much as I would like it to work out for him, I just don't see it happening at the moment. I think that he is in a unique situation at the moment as I don't honestly believe that at any other big club in the world Moyes would still be in charge. I think being out of all competitions, 7th in the league and that dismal display mid-week would be enough to get the bullet at any other club

I have been surprised by his transfer strategy too, I mean at Everton he seemed to have a great eye for under rated players but Fellaini and Mata are big names. As much as I want big players to come to the club, spending 30 odd million on each player and huge wages doesn't seem to be the right way to go about it. I am interested to see how he performs in the transfer market this summer, but none of it means anything if he can't get results on the pitch.

tl;dr moyes lucky to be in a job, hope he gets some good transfers in but doesn't matter what he does if he can't get the results on the pitch.

Morzadec

No

Pighead wrote: »

The season isn't over yet. You can't say they've gone from Champions to 7th when the season is still underway. Especially given the fact they are actually 6th. And that Champions League tie is far from over. If Utd finish 5th and get to the quarter finals of the Champs League would you still call it a calamity?

Absolutely! How would it not be??

Blatter

No

Morzadec wrote: »

Absolutely! How would it not be??

The fact that the best we can realistically hope for is 5th in the league and to reach the QFs in the CL, in February, is a massive calamity in itself.

Pighead

Morzadec wrote: »

Absolutely! How would it not be??

As I said already, I'd class relegation or bottom half finish as a calamity. As it is it's a very disappointing season. A calamity in my book is when absolutely everything goes to ****.

Despite everything that's gone on this season there have still been a few positives. Signing of Mata, Rooney staying, fletcher return, emergence of Januzaj. I think most Utd fans were expecting 3rd/4th place finish this season.

5th/6th while disappointing should not be classed as calamitous (unless you write for the sun/star/mirror).

The_Kew_Tour

No

Its not like though we have done well in any cup competition.

I would say something if we were in Cup final this weekend, still in FA Cup and got decent result and performance during the week.

Then you could at least say Moyes seems to be getting it right in Cups but needs to get it right in the league.

We dont have the excuse of complaining about too many games as we dont have as many with being out of the Cups now.

This makes being in 6th on Goal difference actually worse.

irishfeen

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Its not like though we have done well in any cup competition.

I would say something if we were in Cup final this weekend, still in FA Cup and got decent result and performance during the week.

Then you could at least say Moyes seems to be getting it right in Cups but needs to get it right in the league.

We dont have the excuse of complaining about too many games as we dont have as many with being out of the Cups now.

This makes being in 6th on Goal difference actually worse.

Tbf on Moyes up to the Olympiacos match we had been playing well in the Champions League.

Kerrydude1981

No

What do ye think of this?Apparently this could be next seasons away jersey,

http://www.101greatgoals.com/blog/rip-offs-of-manchester-uniteds-black-and-gold-kit-for-201415-already-on-sale-in-thailand/?

If Kagawa is still around at least the colours will remind him of a better time

The_Kew_Tour

No

irishfeen wrote: »

Tbf on Moyes up to the Olympiacos match we had been playing well in the Champions League.

Against poor enough sides though. Ok beating the German team 9-1 over 2 games is impressive, so why then does he decide to sub the player who was most impressive in those games. Kagawa.

We we have come up against any half decent team we have either been murdered or lucky to escape with a win.

Your Airbag

irishfeen wrote: »

Tbf on Moyes up to the Olympiacos match we had been playing well in the Champions League.

We'd be in a cup final only for DDG spilling the only shot on target against Sunderland.

Nobody likes to hear the luck talk but they have been some real stinkers this season.

The_Kew_Tour

No

Your Airbag wrote: »

We'd be in a cup final only for DDG spilling the only shot on target against Sunderland.

Nobody like to hear the luck talk but they have been some real stinkers this season.

But if DDG had not slipped the ball who to say we would have scored the exact same way few minutes later?

Your Airbag

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

But if DDG had not slipped the ball who to say we would have scored the exact same way few minutes later?

We were through on away goals regardless. 2-1 away, 1-0 at home.

Elro

Your Airbag wrote: »

We'd be in a cup final only for DDG spilling the only shot on target against Sunderland.

Nobody like to hear the luck talk but they have been some real stinkers this season.

We'd also probably be in the final if we hadn't played negative one dimensional football for the 209 minutes before DDGs mistake as well.

The_Kew_Tour

No

Your Airbag wrote: »

We were through on away goals regardless. 2-1 away, 1-0 at home.

Actually forgot that. You're right.

The Penalties though were horrid.

Never seen such bad Penalties and seen fair few bad ones in this Island alone.

Pighead

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Against poor enough sides though. Ok beating the German team 9-1 over 2 games is impressive, so why then does he decide to sub the player who was most impressive in those games. Kagawa.

We we have come up against any half decent team we have either been murdered or lucky to escape with a win.

Your just making stuff up now. Kagawa played in the three games following his impressive display against Leverkusen and contributed **** all.

Also played Chelsea Drew 0-0 and lost 3-1. Beat Arsenal 1-0 and drew 0-0. Lost 1-0 to Liverpool and lost 4-1 to City. How does that equate to getting murdered by every half decent side? We only got played off the park in the city game. The rest were competitive (even the Chelsea game. Thought 3-1 flattered them)

Whatsisname

No

Christian Eriksen is pure quality, would have loved United to go for him last summer

The_Kew_Tour

No

Pighead wrote: »

Your just making stuff up now. Kagawa played in the three games following his impressive display against Leverkusen and contributed **** all.

Also played Chelsea Drew 0-0 and lost 3-1. Beat Arsenal 1-0 and drew 0-0. Lost 1-0 to Liverpool and lost 4-1 to City. How does that equate to getting murdered by every half decent side? We only got played off the park in the city game. The rest were competitive (even the Chelsea game. Thought 3-1 flattered them)

Sadly scorelines dont tell the whole picture.

Can you name a game where we totally dominated from start to finish in the league?

Just 1?

Pro. F

No

K-9 wrote: »

It's isn't the first, second time it has come up. I'm surprised at how low the wage budget was tbh.

It has indeed come up many times before. I have asked for proof before with regards to the wages, and I've looked myself, and today was the first time I was given a source.

Pighead

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Sadly scorelines dont tell the whole picture.

Can you name a game where we totally dominated from start to finish in the league?

Just 1?

Hang on you're the one that said we got murdered by all the decent teams. Bar the City game that is absolutely untrue. I never claimed Utd dominated anybody this season in the league.

Deiseboy01

Pro. F wrote: »

Consistently out performed other teams on similar budgets. It's a simple concept. You are saying that he did a top class job at Everton because he was on a small budget yet you are not comparing his budget to the other teams he was competing against. You are even ignoring wages completely and talking about players that were sold after he left the club.

All you have is an impression that he did a good job at Everton, you haven't actually looked into it or thought about it past the first level of complexity. I'm in the same boat of not knowing all the relevant details, but I hold my hands up to that lack of knowledge and don't take the impressions we have as a certain truth.

Could be wrong but I seem to remember 365 running an article which stated that while his transfer spend was low his spend on wages was roughly 6-8th in the league consistently. In effect in terms if wages spent the team performed to where they should be, nothing remarkable.

Kerrydude1981

No

Your Airbag wrote: »

We'd be in a cup final only for DDG spilling the only shot on target against Sunderland.

Nobody likes to hear the luck talk but they have been some real stinkers this season.

We could have been in the cup final if the manager wasn't so negative and actually sent the team out in the second half of normal time to finish Sunderland off,playing at home Utd should be winning that tie in normal time.

irishfeen

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Against poor enough sides though. Ok beating the German team 9-1 over 2 games is impressive, so why then does he decide to sub the player who was most impressive in those games. Kagawa.

We we have come up against any half decent team we have either been murdered or lucky to escape with a win.

I can't answer that Kew because i'm not David Moyes - i'd love to know his rationale as much as yourself.

Robson99

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Also Carrick positional work was excellent the other night. Broke down number dangerous areas, sadly he had nobody to help him out. Poor second half, but could been worse on scoreboard only for him.

Personally I thought Carrick offered absolutely nothing the other night. He has been terrible all season. Had a good season last year but IMO is nowhere good enough when push comes to shove against the better teams. He will never dominate a game the way Keano or Scholes could

Pighead

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

We could have been in the cup final if the manager wasn't so negative and actually sent the team out in the second half of normal time to finish Sunderland off.

You make it sound so easy!

Chelsea also could have had a chance to reach a league cup final if the manager wasn't so negative and actually sent the team out in the second half of normal time to finish Sunderland off.

The_Kew_Tour

No

Pighead wrote: »

Hang on you're the one that said we got murdered by all the decent teams. Bar the City game that is absolutely untrue. I never claimed Utd dominated anybody this season in the league.

We have been easily the 2nd best team against

Livepool
City
Chelsea
Spurs
Everton
Swansea cup
Sunderland in lc
WBA
Newcastle
Southampton

City destroyed us
So have greeks
Chelsea were better then us easily. Scoreline flattered me bollocks
Spurs destroyed our game at OT
Everton also gave us a lesson at OT

Plus we were haunted to beat Hull and Norwich over christmas

ShaneU

No

Seen this on twitter, the baby Jebus wept. If it's not fake let's hope it's just a training shirt.

Kylo Ren

ShaneU wrote: »

Seen this on twitter

Seems legit.

Headshot

No

ShaneU wrote: »

Seen this on twitter, the baby Jebus wept. If it's not fake let's hope it's just a training shirt.

Klopp will feel right at home

Kylo Ren

Headshot wrote: »

Klopp will feel right at home

Does he like checkers?

Will I Amnt

No

Looks real. I'm basing this on nothing more than the fact it looks sh*t enough to fit right in with the sh*t they have produced over the last few years.

The_Kew_Tour

No

Yellow for outfield?

Hopefully Goalie top at best.

awful if outfield.