Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod Warning: Post #7871

Panthro

Maybe this will help ye understand the Mata dilemma....
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/367222/Fans-call-for-David-Moyes-to-be-SACKED-for-not-playing-Juan-Mata-but-he-s-cup-tied

Honestly, have the heads been buried in the sand round here?!:D:D:D

Discodog

My fear is that Moyes will be allowed to spend. If we start next season well then he will feel confident. But if we start badly then he will revert back to trying not to lose instead of trying to win.

As the losses have increased Moyes becomes negative. It's the exact opposite of what you need in a winning manager.

I am sure that there is a lot of disquiet amongst the players. They will be wondering if they are in or out. They have had a winning mentality drummed into them by SAF. It's no surprise if some of them have become apathetic.

Will I Amnt

No

Somebody let Panthro in on the joke...

beno619

No

KH25 wrote: »

Im at a loss to try to explain it. I know we are not PL managers, but how can something so obvious to the fans be completely ignored by the managers?

Kagawa played under Fergie. He missed three months of the season though injury but started most of the games he was available for.

KH25

No

beno619 wrote: »

Kagawa played under Fergie. He missed three months of the season though injury but started most of the games he was available for.

In that part I was actually talking about Valencia getting played almost every game and not Kagawa. I don't know how he gets away with his dire standard of play.

Panthro

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Somebody let Panthro in on the joke...

Hell no!:D
I honestly can't see why he wouldn't play Mata on Tuesday night.
Match was perfect for him.
Jones, Raf, Evans and Nani should have all been brought on too.

bangkok

beno619 wrote: »

Kagawa played under Fergie. He missed three months of the season though injury but started most of the games he was available for.

I was at the game kagawa got injured in, it was the champions league home game to braga.... he was very poor in that 45mins he played. I actually thought he was substituted at half time because he was so bad but turned out he injured his knee and kept him out for 3 months

bullvine

No

Panthro wrote: »

Hell no!:D
I honestly can't see why he wouldn't play Mata on Tuesday night.
Match was perfect for him.
Jones, Raf, Evans and Nani should have all been brought on too.

Quality Username!:)

Panthro

bullvine wrote: »

Quality Username!:)

Why thank you, can't take the creadit though.
That belongs to the Cats.

Thunda thunda...thunder Cats..
meeeow!:pac:

beno619

No

bangkok wrote: »

I was at the game kagawa got injured in, it was the champions league home game to braga.... he was very poor in that 45mins he played. I actually thought he was substituted at half time because he was so bad but turned out he injured his knee and kept him out for 3 months

Yeah I'm just sick of hearing Fergie didn't used Kagawa as some sort of justification for why Moyes has tried to wreck the lads career.

Fergie stalked the lad for the best part of 18 months and was about to make him the focal point of the side. While Rooney was injured at the start of last season him and RVP linked up tremendously.

Most likely if Fergie was still around Rooney would have moved on and we would have transitioned to the type of quality football this squad is cable of even with its deficiencies in the central midfield. Kagawa would have been the focal point.

Il take Kagawa , Hernandez, Nani and Anderson over Moyes any day. But most likely well be left with Moyes for another painful 12 months .

KH25

No

Hernandez has been shafted by Moyes IMO. He gets brought on in like the 85th minute or so. He seems to prefer Welbeck to him.

Deiseboy01

beno619 wrote: »

Guess you only watch the matches where he's played out of position.

Wrong. He gets bullied no matter where he plays. Lovely player but I just think the PL doesn't necessarily suit him. Hope I'm proved wrong because he could on his BL form be a great addition but so far he's been very disappointing.

Thecon21

No

Panthro wrote: »

Maybe this will help ye understand the Mata dilemma....
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/367222/Fans-call-for-David-Moyes-to-be-SACKED-for-not-playing-Juan-Mata-but-he-s-cup-tied

Honestly, have the heads been buried in the sand round here?!:D:D:D

Oh dear, same joke three times over two pages.. I'll assume you're taking the piss.

That joke died swiftly, similar to United's champs league campaign..

Lord TSC

No

KH25 wrote: »

Hernandez has been shafted by Moyes IMO. He gets brought on in like the 85th minute or so. He seems to prefer Welbeck to him.

Because Moyes goes very negTive as the game goes on, and when he is lucky Hernandez gets on near the end, usually when he gets time, it's no good, since there isn't any attempts to get him the ball (except for hoofball).

I use to think he was wasted as a super-sub under Fergie but Moyes takes it to a new level.

bangkok

KH25 wrote: »

Hernandez has been shafted by Moyes IMO. He gets brought on in like the 85th minute or so. He seems to prefer Welbeck to him.

in fairness, welbeck has so much more to offer the team than hernandez does....the home game against west brom hernandez was shocking...kept running miles offside even when it was obvious

Panthro

Thecon21 wrote: »

Oh dear, same joke three times over two pages.. I'll assume you're taking the piss.

That joke died swiftly, similar to United's champs league campaign..

Panthro never* assumes the role of 'the pisstaker'.:mad:

(*cept for the times I'm taking the piss...)

Julez

No

Dear Mr. Moyes,

Humour me, please play this team against West Brom.

---

DDG

---

--Rafeal

---

Smalling

---

Vidic

---

Evra--

---

Carrick

---

Fellaini

---

---

Mata

---

Rooney

---

Kagawa

---

---

Van Persie

---

Yours Sincerely,

Everyone

P.S. thats 4-2-3-1, not 4-4-2, not 4-5-1... no wingers.

Pro. F

No

Deiseboy01 wrote: »

Wrong. He gets bullied no matter where he plays. Lovely player but I just think the PL doesn't necessarily suit him. Hope I'm proved wrong because he could on his BL form be a great addition but so far he's been very disappointing.

I'm still waiting for an explanation of how my asking a guy with a Feyemoord avatar if he was Dutch and what he thought of the RVP interview is supposed to be a smart ass comment.

That was quite the insulting claim you made about my discussion with the lad, are you going to back it up?

Will I Amnt

No

Panthro wrote: »

Why thank you, can't take the creadit though.
That belongs to the Cats.

Thunda thunda...thunder Cats..
meeeow!:pac:

I do be hoping you get into a bit of an argument with Kryogen.
Is it just me that plays out avatar fights in my head? It's a joyous occasion when 2 relatable avatars have a dispute to settle.
There's something quite hilarious when you have Pinky and The Brain arguing over who is the best right back in Italy or Cartman telling Kyle it was ball to hand, never a pen :pac:

hufpc8w3adnk65

Julez wrote: »

Dear Mr. Moyes,

Humour me, please play this team against West Brom.

---

DDG

---

--Rafeal

---

Smalling

---

Vidic

---

Evra--

---

Carrick

---

Fellaini

---

---

Mata

---

Rooney

---

Kagawa

---

---

Van Persie

---

Yours Sincerely,

Everyone

P.S. thats 4-3-3, not 4-4-2, not 4-5-1... no wingers.

I'd call that 4-2-3-1

Julez

No

MrMac84 wrote: »

I'd call that 4-2-3-1

Duh, my bad! Thats what I meant! Now David is gonna get it all wrong!

Panthro

MrMac84 wrote: »

I'd call that 4-2-3-1

I'd call it a 1-3-2-4-1 but I'm looking upside down at the screen at the minute.
It's a feat I'm proud of, I won't lie to ya.
Moyes has it all planned out lads.
Do terrible this season, get in a few new players, do better next season ans then he can turn around and say "told ye so"

DARK-KNIGHT

No

Panthro wrote: »

I'd call it a 1-3-2-4-1 but I'm looking
Do terrible this season, get in a few new players, do better next season ans then he can turn around and say "told ye so"

This part of your post made me think you could very possibly be smoking crack somewhere

tossy

Young should never be allowed play for us again, Kagawa should be nailed on.

J. Marston

No

Van Persie has initiated his exit strategy. Moaning the other night, justifiably, and now the Guardian story which has probably come from someone close to him.

Moyes and his dogshít, cowardly football have led to one of the worst title defences ever. Had us knocked out of the domestic cups by footballing juggernauts such as Swansea and Sunderland and now we're going to be knocked out of Europe by Olympiakos. And to top it all off, he alienates our best striker. Yet he is still in a job and the vast majority of the media believe he should be given more time, and not just time but loads of money to build a team in his own vision.

What a nightmare, and it isn't ending any time soon because Fergie will not allow his pet to be sacked because it will reflect badly on him.

KH25

No

bangkok wrote: »

in fairness, welbeck has so much more to offer the team than hernandez does....the home game against west brom hernandez was shocking...kept running miles offside even when it was obvious

Hernandez has shown that when given a proper run of games he can link up very well with Rooney. He's had a poor season yes, but he's barely been seen. I won't be surprised if he goes this summer.

Welbeck is not good enough for United. He's supposed to be a goalscorer yet he trips over himself when in front of goal. I don't think he'll ever turn into the kind of striker United demands.

Nalz

No

tossy wrote: »

Young should never be allowed play for us again, Kagawa should be nailed on.

There's been a lot worse than Young lately.... check the other wing next time. Hint, his first name is Antonio, often abbreviated to Tony.

Giruilla

Deiseboy01 wrote: »

Because in the PL he gets knocked off the ball all the time.

That sounds like something ridiculous I can imagine David Moyes thinking.

KH25

No

Trilla wrote: »

There's been a lot worse than Young lately.... check the other wing next time. Hint, his first name is Antonio, often abbreviated to Tony.

Lately? Try the last 2 seasons. Valencia is a one trick pony and he has even forgotten how to perform it. Can't take a man on, can't cross, can't use his left foot at all....why does he play? Because he puts in a good defensive shift? Thats all well and good against someone like Barca where defence is paramount, but not on a weekly basis.

jebus84

No

KH25 wrote: »

Lately? Try the last 2 seasons. Valencia is a one trick pony and he has even forgotten how to perform it. Can't take a man on, can't cross, can't use his left foot at all....why does he play? Because he puts in a good defensive shift? Thats all well and good against someone like Barca where defence is paramount, but not on a weekly basis.

Its an absolute disgrace that he was getting in ahead of zaha,I hope Powell isn't messed about when he comes back

2moreMinutes

J. Marston wrote: »

Van Persie has initiated his exit strategy. Moaning the other night, justifiably, and now the Guardian story which has probably come from someone close to him.

If RVP is gonna start pissing and moaning in public, he can FRO. I don't care how good he is, I don't care what he's already done for us and I don't care why he's pissed. He's a professional so he should start acting like one instead of spitting out his dummy.

It's one thing being pissed at what's happening so long as he's still putting in 100% (a la Rooney). It's an entirely different matter when he's just punching in time and acting like a spoilt brat in public.

KH25

No

jebus84 wrote: »

Its an absolute disgrace that he was getting in ahead of zaha,I hope Powell isn't messed about when he comes back

A fair few here who watch the reserve games said Zaha hadn't really impressed so I can understand his not playing. What I can't understand is Moyes persisting with Valencia week in week out when we had the team to try alternate formations that didn't require him at all. He offers nothing going forward anymore.

MagicMarker

Someone posted the other day a list of players in order of chances created, Valencia was third after Rooney and RvP if I recall. That's why he's playing, coupled with his defensive work.

Nalz

No

KH25 wrote: »

Lately? Try the last 2 seasons. Valencia is a one trick pony and he has even forgotten how to perform it. Can't take a man on, can't cross, can't use his left foot at all....why does he play? Because he puts in a good defensive shift? Thats all well and good against someone like Barca where defence is paramount, but not on a weekly basis.

well yes lately, for two reasons (a) I was being smart and ironic and (b) Young has slightly upped his game lately. The end of last season and start of this season he was poor also.

MagicMarker wrote: »

coupled with his defensive work.

As long as it's not as a FB...I'd rather Rooney back there. Genuinely!

jebus84

No

MagicMarker wrote: »

Someone posted the other day a list of players in order of chances created, Valencia was third after Rooney and RvP if I recall. That's why he's playing, coupled with his defensive work.

constantly crossing bad balls in to the box isn't a chance, his a winger who cant cross a ball,we have a few of them in the team

kstand

No

jebus84 wrote: »

constantly crossing bad balls in to the box isn't a chance, his a winger who cant cross a ball,we have a few of them in the team

I agree - he was quick once but his pace is gone and he is very pedestrian.
Everything about us is pedestrian now - its cruel to have to look out at it.

bucketybuck

No

MagicMarker wrote: »

Someone posted the other day a list of players in order of chances created, Valencia was third after Rooney and RvP if I recall. That's why he's playing, coupled with his defensive work.

You must be having a laugh?

Valencia has TWO assists in the league this season. You must be counting balls booted into the stands as a "chance created".

v3ttel

I'd actually be happier to let Van Persie go than Chicharito. Not that he has had many chances this season, but when he has, he'd ran his nuts off for the team (he could barely move at the end of the Sunderland game at the end of extra time). He's shown desire and hunger that was completely missing on Tuesday.

He's only 25, will score goals where ever he goes because of his fantastic movement, and has a fantastic attitude. With a combination of Rooney, Chicharito, Mata & Kagawa, that would still be an exceptional attack if deployed the right way.

MagicMarker

bucketybuck wrote: »

You must be having a laugh?

Valencia has TWO assists in the league this season. You must be counting balls booted into the stands as a "chance created".

Erm, no. Chances created is fairly self explanatory.

Giruilla

MagicMarker wrote: »

Erm, no. Chances created is fairly self explanatory.

Such a shame there's no stat for chances NOT created whilst Valencia is on the pitch..

Julez

No

MagicMarker wrote: »

Someone posted the other day a list of players in order of chances created, Valencia was third after Rooney and RvP if I recall. That's why he's playing, coupled with his defensive work.

He's probably the only other player that gets as much, if not more game time than them two bar, maybe, Evra. So of course he's made more chances. Sure he's probably made more goal line clearances that Ben Amos, stick him in net.

Elro

MagicMarker wrote: »

Erm, no. Chances created is fairly self explanatory.

From what I can find here- http://www.whoscored.com/Players/18296

Valencia has an average of 0.9 key passes per game. Key passes are shots that either lead to goals or shots on goal.

Players with a higher KP average currently include Staurt Downing and Evra. I think it's fair to say that when your left back is producing more goal scoring chances than your right winger you need a new right winger.

Edit: also just seen that he makes on average 0.7 accurate crosses per game.

TheDoc

In regards to RVP stuff.

Sorry to say but if he's spitting the dummy out of his mouth not even two years with the club he knows where the door is. We all appreciate that he "may" have came to play under Ferguson. That's bollox. He had turned into one of the best strikers in Europe and hadn't any silverware to show for it. He came to United to win trophies at the end of his career, which is fine.
But don't spout rubbish about it, just be honest

"I came here to compete and win titles. I'm 30 years old, I don't have many years left and I want to win silverware. I don't have time on my side to wait for rebuilding projects like I kept waiting for at Arsenal".

And I'll accept that, I'll champion his time with us as a phenominal striker, and we can part ways.

But this rubbish to set himself up with an excuse, is something that will just bring speculation and questions for the rest of the reason. There was no one in his way on Tuesday when he blazed over the bar. He might well be frustrated after loosing, but if he buried that we would be in a much better position to go through this round.
If he buried his open goal at Fulham, we wouldn't have had a tormented few weeks.
If he scored one of his two sitters against Arsenal, we would have had a big win against an inform team and boosted confidence.

Moan about the players all he wants, his hands arn't clean in the filth that has been on the pitch.

A great player, a really wonderful striker that I would hope cuts the ****, and knuckles down and helps the team back to get where it belongs and finishes his career here. If not, away he goes and we carry on. We've lost plenty of top strikers over the years, and never struggled afterwards to score goals. It's never nice to lose a top player, but those sort of comments need to be reigned in quickly, or he will talk himself out the door.

beno619

No

KH25 wrote: »

Hernandez has shown that when given a proper run of games he can link up very well with Rooney. He's had a poor season yes, but he's barely been seen. I won't be surprised if he goes this summer.

Welbeck is not good enough for United. He's supposed to be a goalscorer yet he trips over himself when in front of goal. I don't think he'll ever turn into the kind of striker United demands.

I agree with the first part but.

Welbeck has real quality imo.His finishing will only get better though more he plays his natural position. He won us matches when he got 4 or 5 start up front. I would prefer we let RVP go and focus on Welbeck and Chicha.

The_Kew_Tour

No

Wow wow ****ing woooooow

Wtf!!!!!!

Headshot

No

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Wow wow ****ing woooooow

Wtf!!!!!!

What?

That Kagawa vs Olympiakos video is an eye-opener, but probably the most shocking thing for me was seeing Ashley Young not lift his head once while taking on a man and trying to cross the ball. Not the slightest sign of a glance to see who he was hitting the ball to. So that attitude says to me 'I'll get the cross in somehow, somewhere, but it's your job to get on the end of it', rather than the way it should be with the striker rightfully thinking - 'I'll be in the box waiting, making space, and you pick me out with your cross.'

bucketybuck

No

MagicMarker wrote: »

Erm, no. Chances created is fairly self explanatory.

When you are trying to imply that Antonio Valencia has been a creative force second only to Rooney or Van Persie, and greater than Nani, Young, Mata, Januzaj, Felliani or Kagawa, then yes, you do need to explain yourself just a little bit more.

Soups123

stankratz wrote: »

That Kagawa vs Olympiakos video is an eye-opener, but probably the most shocking thing for me was seeing Ashley Young not lift his head once while taking on a man and trying to cross the ball. Not the slightest sign of a glance to see who he was hitting the ball to. So that attitude says to me 'I'll get the cross in somehow, somewhere, but it's your job to get on the end of it', rather than the way it should be with the striker rightfully thinking - 'I'll be in the box waiting, making space, and you pick me out with your cross.'

That's harsh most wingers are thought to hit certain spots with there crosses and the forward players know the place to be.

He really gets random stick

Lord TSC

No

I continue to be amazed at how some people will chose to throw players who've brought us success under the bus in an effort to back a manager who continues to bring us failure.

If RVP is unhappy, then the question needs to be asked why. As plenty of people have pointed out, Fergie worked wonders last year, and imo, RVP was a massive reason why. He won us more games than I can count last year.

So for Moyes to have alienated him to the extent he'll ask to leave....I really wonder how some people don't hold it against Moyes. This blind loyalty to Moyes drives me nuts; if RVP has a problem, it's not born out of nowhere. Be it a lack of respect, a lack of results or whatever, I feel RVP has every right to question what is happening at the club.

For all people say he needs to be a professional, so to does the club need to be professional to him. If it's true that the promise was broken to him as reported, and then the replacement comes in and is wrecking a year of his career, more power to him. He's earned the right to be surrounded by winners, and if he obviously isn't getting that back up from the manager, then I won't hold it against him if he does decide to walk.

However my biggest fear is coming true; it looks like RVP is going, Hernandez and Kags likely going.....I genuinely worry Moyes will sell off our genuine talents, keep Val, Young and Cleverly and drive us even deeper into the hole he's created for us.