Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod Warning: Post #7871

The_Kew_Tour

No

Headshot wrote: »

What?

get rid of RVP and keep Chico and Let Welbeck also be main srriker????

Have people lost their minds?!!!!

brinty

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

get rid of RVP and keep Chico and Let Welbeck also be main srriker????

Have people lost their minds?!!!!

damn Kew i thought you were breaking some news like Moyes had gotten the chop

Checked a few websites and was disappointed....

Then saw your response :mad:

Pro. F

No

Giruilla wrote: »

When Kagawa has been in the team from the start United have played well and passed through him. makes such a difference to the style when he's on the pitch. He's the ideal link from defence to attack. I just don't understand how so many people (on here included) haven't seen it when he's played. Look at the Champions League games he started and played 90 mins in.
His ball retention is better than any other player on the team, not to mention his vision, movement and eye for developing attacking play. .

Perfect example is second leg against Sunderland last month. Kagawa starts, united start the game well, get the goal they need.. and while not playing amazing, were comfortable on the ball, creating chances and Kagawa was right in the middle of it. Thought they were comfortable to go through.
THEN, (pains me to think back about it) Moyes brings on f*'in Valencia on 61 mins. Instantly the team falls apart, can't keep the ball anymore and started getting pushed back into their own half. Sunderland got a lucky goal, but as soon as Kagawa went off united were playing long ball football and Sunderland effectively had 30 mins of pressure.

If you are including games that Kagawa played on the left then that is not true at all. If you are only talking about games where he played on his proper position then you are talking about a tiny sample and even in those games I would hesitate in saying the team played well.

I rate Kagawa highly, but i think you are exaggerating how well the team has played when he's been in it.

bullvine

No

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

get rid of RVP and keep Chico and Let Welbeck also be main srriker????

Have people lost their minds?!!!!

I feel a little sick... Wouldnt put it past Moyes though.

Lucas Hood

No

MagicMarker wrote: »

Erm, no. Chances created is fairly self explanatory.

It's not as straight forward as you'd think.

http://www.optasports.com/news-area/blog-optas-event-definitions.aspx

Goal Assist
The final pass or pass-cum-shot leading to the recipient of the ball scoring a goal
Second Assist/Key Pass
A pass/cross that is instrumental in creating a goal-scoring opportunity, for example a corner or free-kick to a player who then assists an attempt, a chance-creating through ball or cross into a dangerous position.
Key Pass
The final pass or pass-cum-shot leading to the recipient of the ball having an attempt at goal without scoring.
Chances Created
Assists plus Key passes

Headshot

No

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

get rid of RVP and keep Chico and Let Welbeck also be main srriker????

Have people lost their minds?!!!!

Feck sake you had my hopes up thinking something may have happened to Moyes

The_Kew_Tour

No

bullvine wrote: »

I feel a little sick... Wouldnt put it past Moyes though.

I need some fresh air ha!!

In the love of god what are people thinking

bangkok

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVsIfRjFjdY

oh to have a young david beckham coming through the youths again..... what a player

Kerrydude1981

No

brinty wrote: »

damn Kew i thought you were breaking some news like Moyes had gotten the chop

Checked a few websites and was disappointed....

Then saw your response :mad:

Same here

Nalz

No

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Wow wow ****ing woooooow

Wtf!!!!!!

omg gtfo

HFG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Paulegend

brinty wrote: »

damn Kew i thought you were breaking some news like Moyes had gotten the chop

Checked a few websites and was disappointed....

Then saw your response :mad:

stalled the laptop by trying to rush onto the skysports website

TheDoc

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

get rid of RVP and keep Chico and Let Welbeck also be main srriker????

Have people lost their minds?!!!!

That's ludacrous.

And look I'm not calling out now for him to go. I'm sure words will be said, and it will cool off. It was frustrated comments from a low on confidence striker who has missed a few chances in the last few weeks h'ed normally rattle the net with. I'm sure it's just frustration and to be fair, he made some supportive comments about the manager. And seemed to be slamming team mates a little.
I'm sure he will have his neck pulled in and hopefully that's the end of it.

In no way shape or form would I advocate Wellbeck to lead the line. Hells no. While I'd be totally fine with Chico going(not buying into the man love for him) if RVP was to walk out the door, I'd expect the club to land a marquee striker as a replacement

Your Airbag

TheDoc wrote: »

That's ludacrous.

Its as ludakroos as Reus taking a CMs place if you catch my drift.

Now here is a picture of Park Ji Sung throwing a grenade.

The_Kew_Tour

No

TheDoc wrote: »

That's ludacrous.

And look I'm not calling out now for him to go. I'm sure words will be said, and it will cool off. It was frustrated comments from a low on confidence striker who has missed a few chances in the last few weeks h'ed normally rattle the net with. I'm sure it's just frustration and to be fair, he made some supportive comments about the manager. And seemed to be slamming team mates a little.
I'm sure he will have his neck pulled in and hopefully that's the end of it.

In no way shape or form would I advocate Wellbeck to lead the line. Hells no. While I'd be totally fine with Chico going(not buying into the man love for him) if RVP was to walk out the door, I'd expect the club to land a marquee striker as a replacement

I think RVP has few seasons to give us yet.

It would be big blow if he left

Soups123

Soups123 wrote: »

That's harsh most wingers are thought to hit certain spots with there crosses and the forward players know the place to be.

He really gets random stick

That's fair enough, I just think of it as a minimum requirement for a winger playing for Manchester United to be able to precision-aim a cross even while under pressure. For the vast amount of crosses that our wingers/LBs execute during games, it is rare these days that the ball will go comfortably to a Man United player never mind create a dangerous goalscoring opportunity for the team. I'm just sick of shíte crossing, be it from Young or Valencia.

As for 'he really gets random stick', outside of personal stuff like 'Just fúck off Ashley' and the likes of that, I think Ashley Young is quite deserving of criticism (or stick) considering his performances on the field definitely up to January. He has improved IMO since then, in that he isn't always the worst player in the side when he plays now and he has the ability to score a thunderbastard every once in a while, but he needs to lift the head when crossing!

bangkok

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5YV9V2uRiU&feature=player_embedded

marco reus.... nearly all of his play coming from an attacking CENTRE midfield role.....

Paulegend

bangkok wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5YV9V2uRiU&feature=player_embedded

marco reus.... nearly all of his play coming from an attacking CENTRE midfield role.....

get out of here with your factual proof you.............

double GG

No

His touch, his vision, his positioning, his tenacity, his bravery, his goals, his ability to always be in control.

To think Cleverley is now playing where he used to play makes me really really sad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ggu9d4xlTFo

MisterAnarchy

No

KH25 wrote: »

Lately? Try the last 2 seasons. Valencia is a one trick pony and he has even forgotten how to perform it.

He hasnt been the same player since the Champions league final vs Barcelona in 2011.
He couldnt move with nerves that night and all his confidence was drained from his body.

He lost his mojo that night and never got it back,like something out of Space Jam

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWeII9xkTnw

bullvine

No

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

He hasnt been the same player since the Champions league final vs Barcelona in 2011.
He couldnt move with nerves that night and all his confidence was drained from his body.
He lost his mojo that night and never got it back.

Nonsense! from Jan to May 2012, he was arguably the best attacking player in the premiership.

Remember this!

Paulegend

all surpassed by this gent

Blatter

No

bangkok wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5YV9V2uRiU&feature=player_embedded

marco reus.... nearly all of his play coming from an attacking CENTRE midfield role.....

Ah right, so his play is coming from around this area of the field:





As opposed to this area:

MisterAnarchy

No

bullvine wrote: »

Nonsense! from Jan to May 2012, he was arguably the best attacking player in the premiership.

Best attacking player in the league ,you are talking nonsense now.

v3ttel

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

He hasnt been the same player since the Champions league final vs Barcelona in 2011.
He couldnt move with nerves that night and all his confidence was drained from his body.

He lost his mojo that night and never got it back

And to completely disproof that theory...........

Here is Antonio Valencia picking up the Sir Matt Busby Player's player of the year, and Fans player of the year award, in 2012:



He doesn't look impressed with you saying he hasn't been the same since the 2011 Champions League final.

bullvine

No

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Best attacking player in the league ,you are talking nonsense now.

Really, you obviously don't remember that season very well then, he was sensational for the second half of the season, everything good about the team came through him. Hes an easy target now and deserves it but back then for about 3 months he was absolutely brilliant.

MisterAnarchy

No

bullvine wrote: »

Really, you obviously don't remember that season very well then, he was sensational for the second half of the season, everything good about the team came through him. Hes an easy target now and deserves it but back then for about 3 months he was absolutely brilliant.

3 months out of nearly the last 3 years so he was half decent.
He has been brutal the rest of that period.

Nalz

No

imo re Valencia

1 or 2 months in to his Utd career he was great
injury vs Rangers caused about 2 months of meh/poor form after he returned
since then he's had half a season of fantastic form and the rest awful.

Nani, Young and Valencia have been the most jekle and hyde wingers ever at any club.

Nani has showed WC form at times, Tony V close to that and Young was a solid top 4 player

keane2097

No

Pro. F wrote: »

If you are including games that Kagawa played on the left then that is not true at all. If you are only talking about games where he played on his proper position then you are talking about a tiny sample and even in those games I would hesitate in saying the team played well.

I rate Kagawa highly, but i think you are exaggerating how well the team has played when he's been in it.

I'm not sure I agree with sample being an issue when it comes to Kagawa playing at 10 considering he's a known quantity in terms of having shown himself to be world class in that position over a large sample elsewhere.

I would think the null hypothesis in this case would be that Kagawa is an excellent number ten and one should require evidence to the contrary before moving from that position rather than the other way around.

United haven't played all that great when he's been at ten, but they have played far, far better than 99% of games they've played this season.

bullvine

No

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

3 months out of nearly the last 3 years so he was half decent.
He has been brutal the rest of that period.

That's not the point though, I never said he wasn't brutal, you said he was never the same after the 2011 Final, which is complete nonsense as proven by the fact he won both United player of the year awards in 2011-2012.

He was very good that entire season but in particular for 3 months after Christmas, he was sensational.

KombuchaMshroom

No

v3ttel wrote: »

And to completely disproof that theory...........

Here is Antonio Valencia picking up the Sir Matt Busby Player's player of the year, and Fans player of the year award, in 2012:



He doesn't look impressed with you saying he hasn't been the same since the 2011 Champions League final.

I always thought that award was a bit of a joke to be honest. Didn't he break his leg in the first CL game that season and miss like 5 months.

Nani had been sensational in the first half of the season, continuing on from the season before where he got our POTY, and was very harshly shafted out of the team for Valencia for the last 3 months.

In a trophyless season that had no stand out players I felt Valencia got the reward more on sentiment for recovering from injury so well and for that goal on the wing v Blackburn which was very good and seemed like the league clinching goal at the time but got a bit exaggerated in terms of its quality ( Think it was even voted our goal of the season? )

Julez

No

bullvine

No

KombuchaMshroom wrote: »

I always thought that award was a bit of a joke to be honest. Didn't he break his leg in the first CL game that season and miss like 5 months.

Nani had been sensational in the first half of the season, continuing on from the season before where he got our POTY, and was very harshly shafted out of the team for Valencia for the last 3 months.

In a trophyless season that had no stand out players I felt Valencia got the reward more on sentiment for recovering from injury so well and for that goal on the wing v Blackburn which was very good and seemed like the league clinching goal at the time but got a bit exaggerated in terms of its quality ( Think it was even voted our goal of the season? )

That was the year before

v3ttel

KombuchaMshroom wrote: »

I always thought that award was a bit of a joke to be honest. Didn't he break his leg in the first CL game that season and miss like 5 months.

Nani had been sensational in the first half of the season, continuing on from the season before where he got our POTY, and was very harshly shafted out of the team for Valencia for the last 3 months.

In a trophyless season that had no stand out players I felt Valencia got the reward more on sentiment for recovering from injury so well and for that goal on the wing v Blackburn which was very good and seemed like the league clinching goal at the time but got a bit exaggerated in terms of its quality ( Think it was even voted our goal of the season? )

If I'm not mistaken myself, I believe you've gotten this completely mixed up.

Valencia was injured in Sept 2010 against Rangers. He returned later in the season against Arsenal at Old Trafford in an F.A Cup tie.

The award(s) he won as voted for the players and fans, was won in 2011/2012, the next season.

The award was not based on sentiment. He was excellent that season.

bullvine

No

Let me sum it up!

09-10 - Very good first season - Made it into PFA team of the year
10-11 - Missed around 5 months after leg break against Rangers, came back and had a very good last few months of season, had a disaster in the CL Final, lucky not to get sent off
11-12 - Super season, winning both POTY awards
12-13 - Lets not speak of it...
13-14 - oh dear...

KombuchaMshroom

No

Ah fair enough seems I was wrong on the injury front. But at the end of the day, Valencia is s**t now.

Whatever about his ability back then, as has been pointed out before he does seem to have the space jam disease, he is simply 100% ineffective these days

jimmytwotimes 2013

Valencia is like a newly promoted team, you might get a season where the trick that got you there works but you'll be found out eventually.

Valencia approaches a full back, touches the ball, with his right, beyond them once they step in and runs into the space- every bloody time. He can't use his left at all and ends up passing the ball backwards when no space is available on the right.

Full backs now show him onto his left and stand a step back in case he tries to kick it past them onto his right.

One-trick pony and good, even average defenders, aren't falling for it anymore.

bullvine

No

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Valencia is like a newly promoted team, you might get a season where the trick that got you there works but you'll be found out eventually.

Valencia approaches a full back, touches the ball, with his right, beyond them once they step in and runs into the space- every bloody time. He can't use his left at all and ends up passing the ball backwards.

Full backs now show him onto his left and stand a step back in case he tries to kick it past them onto his right.

One-trick pony and good, even average ones, aren't falling for it anymore.

Kevin Kilbane did the same.. In fairness if he actually crossed the ball properly it wouldnt be so bad.

jimmytwotimes 2013

bullvine wrote: »

Kevin Kilbane did the same.. In fairness if he actually crossed the ball properly it wouldnt be so bad.

Kevin 'Killer' Kilbane would of had as much business playing for United as Valencia does

Deiseboy01

Pro. F wrote: »

I'm still waiting for an explanation of how my asking a guy with a Feyemoord avatar if he was Dutch and what he thought of the RVP interview is supposed to be a smart ass comment.

That was quite the insulting claim you made about my discussion with the lad, are you going to back it up?

You know , you're right. I apologise.

I'm so used to you being smart arsey I just assumed you were sticking in a sly dig.

Deiseboy01

Giruilla wrote: »

That sounds like something ridiculous I can imagine David Moyes thinking.

Have you never seen him play? He gets pushed about all the time.

2moreMinutes

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

I continue to be amazed at how some people will chose to throw players who've brought us success under the bus in an effort to back a manager who continues to bring us failure.

For me, my annoyance at RVP has nothing to do with me being in favour of giving Moyes more time.

Both issues are completely separate to me. Of course it's understandable why RVP may be upset but the simple fact is that coming out with sly digs in interviews, particularly when given in Dutch, or releasing little sound bites to the media do nothing but create additional unrest.
He's a player playing under a manager. It's his role to play as the manager wants him to play. It's not his role to bitch and moan to the media irrespective of how disillusioned he is.
It's completely irrelevant who the manager is or how he has the team playing; any player who intentionally sets out to rock the boat is neither needed nor wanted.

He can come out publicly and say he's 100% behind the manager, say his interview was taken out of context, start playing like he cares again and he's back in my good books cos like most football fans, I'm fickle like that

Pro. F

No

keane2097 wrote: »

I'm not sure I agree with sample being an issue when it comes to Kagawa playing at 10 considering he's a known quantity in terms of having shown himself to be world class in that position over a large sample elsewhere.

I would think the null hypothesis in this case would be that Kagawa is an excellent number ten and one should require evidence to the contrary before moving from that position rather than the other way around.

United haven't played all that great when he's been at ten, but they have played far, far better than 99% of games they've played this season.

The claim that I was disputing was not that Kagawa is an excellent number 10 but rather that the team had played well when he's played 10 this season. So the null hypothesis would be that the team have played below power when he's been at number 10 just like they have 99% of the time this season.

Rayne Wooney

Squawka have our top 5 highest chance creators this season as follows

1. Rooney
2. Evra
3. Januzaj
4. Valencia
5. Carrick

Lol

beno619

No

TheDoc wrote: »

That's ludacrous.

And look I'm not calling out now for him to go. I'm sure words will be said, and it will cool off. It was frustrated comments from a low on confidence striker who has missed a few chances in the last few weeks h'ed normally rattle the net with. I'm sure it's just frustration and to be fair, he made some supportive comments about the manager. And seemed to be slamming team mates a little.
I'm sure he will have his neck pulled in and hopefully that's the end of it.

In no way shape or form would I advocate Wellbeck to lead the line. Hells no. While I'd be totally fine with Chico going(not buying into the man love for him) if RVP was to walk out the door, I'd expect the club to land a marquee striker as a replacement

I love RVP and back his comments. But is becoming increasingly clear that him and Rooney will n it be able to co exist with Mata.

Either we shoe horn all three of them into a lobsided 4231 or we play 442 with Mata out wide. Neither of those options sounds great imo.

So if I was to pick two of RVP , Rooney and Mata I would take Rooney and Mata, Chicha and Welbz to provide the competition for Rooney.

beno619

No

Pro. F wrote: »

The claim that I was disputing was not that Kagawa is an excellent number 10 but rather that the team had played well when he's played 10 this season. So the null hypothesis would be that the team have played below power when he's been at number 10 just like they have 99% of the time this season.

We have played better when Kagawa is in the hole. Leverkuzen x2, Swansea..
.

Jaysus we really have been ****e this season.

DM_7

beno619 wrote: »

I love RVP and back his comments. But is becoming increasingly clear that him and Rooney will n it be able to co exist with Mata.

Either we shoe horn all three of them into a lobsided 4231 or we play 442 with Mata out wide. Neither of those options sounds great imo.

So if I was to pick two of RVP , Rooney and Mata I would take Rooney and Mata, Chicha and Welbz to provide the competition for Rooney.

Its not becoming clear at all. They showed a lot of promise v palace with Rooney dropping off to create space for the other 3 attackers (including Januzaj). Then supporting them by coming onto the play. They linked well in a game were it wasn't a game plan based on kicking the ball into the box.

The root of the issues and frustration for RVP are coming from disappointments pre Mata and without Mata in the side.

Your Airbag

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Squawka have our top 5 highest chance creators this season as follows

1. Rooney
2. Evra
3. Januzaj
4. Valencia
5. Carrick

Lol

Nothing wrong there. Evra creates loads, getting back to defend is his problem. Val crosses enough that soe will always get through.

beno619

No

DM-ICE wrote: »

Its not becoming clear at all. They showed a lot of promise v palace with Rooney dropping off to create space for the other 3 attackers (including Januzaj). Then supporting them by coming onto the play. They linked well in a game were it wasn't a game plan based on kicking the ball into the box.

The root of the issues and frustration for RVP are coming from disappointments pre Mata and without Mata in the side.

I saw that game differently, it was better than prior performances but I saw problems like Rooney and Mata picking up very similar positions and struggling to impact the game or supply RVP who was still starves of chances IMO.

Vic Vinegar

F**k me.

Vidal has 17 goals in 29 games this season.

That's more than our whole midfield has scored in the last 7 years*


*Possibly

Mikeyt086

No

Your Airbag wrote: »

Nothing wrong there. Evra creates loads, getting back to defend is his problem. Val crosses enough that soe will always get through.

Yep.

There is nothing wrong with Evra going forward, he's quite effective actually and links up so well with Adnan, but his desire to track back is so bad that I would be screaming at him if he was playing 5-a-side with me on Tuesday nights, so in the Premier League it's not nearly good enough.

Valencia will cross and make chances, but his transition play in moving from defence to attack is maybe the worst I've ever seen. He dwells on the ball so long that the other team can get back, get organised, and have a little meeting to discuss what to do if a variety of scenarios occur, then he just drills it low.