Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod Warning: Post #7871

Lord TSC

No

A major fear for me is that while I agree we need a rebuild, I feel the wrong pieces are getting removed in an effort to fix things up.

The players we need to replace, Valencia, Young, Cleverly....there aren't any stories linking them away, and I'm not getting the vibes they are leaving.

Instead, we get the likes of RVP linked away, Kagawa and Hernandez being left out in the cold. Rio and Vidic are older and, imo, shouldn't be first teamers. But they still offer a wealth of experience to the squad in multiple ways.

I'm terrified of a summer under Moyes. I feel like the rebuild, as it stands, looks to be happening in completely the wrong way.

Danger781

No

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

A major fear for me is that while I agree we need a rebuild, I feel the wrong pieces are getting removed in an effort to fix things up.

The players we need to replace, Valencia, Young, Cleverly....there aren't any stories linking them away, and I'm not getting the vibes they are leaving.

Instead, we get the likes of RVP linked away, Kagawa and Hernandez being left out in the cold. Rio and Vidic are older and, imo, shouldn't be first teamers. But they still offer a wealth of experience to the squad in multiple ways.

I'm terrified of a summer under Moyes. I feel like the rebuild, as it stands, looks to be happening in completely the wrong way.

Vidic and Rio out, with Jagielka coming this way.

Rafael being sold, and Coleman coming in.

RVP out with no replacement.

Hernandez out with no replacement.

Kagawa out since we have Mata.

Danger781

No

Danger781 wrote: »

Hey guys - Haven't been keeping up with this thread at all so my apologies if any of these have been posted already.

Was just speaking to a friend of mine and he informed me of a number of things going on at the United camp that he believes are 100% true. I am not saying they are. He wouldn't reveal his source or where he heard the news but if so, Moyes needs to be gone sooner than later.

1. The relationship between David and Giggs is quite strained as he seemingly never takes Giggs' opinion into consideration at games or with tactics.

2. Ferdinand and Moyes aren't getting along as Moyes keeps comparing what he does with Jagielka. At training David continuously says "this is how Jagielka would do it", which understandably would piss off Rio.

3. Rafael is on the transfer list following a disagreement with Moyes.

One more thing I had forgotten about.

He said Moyes had absolutely no say on the Mata transfer. The whole thing was completed without him and it was being pushed through with or without his consent.

Lord TSC

No

Danger781 wrote: »

Vidic and Rio out, with Jagielka coming this way.

Rafael being sold, and Coleman coming in.

RVP out with no replacement.

Hernandez out with no replacement.

Kagawa out since we have Mata.

Thecon21

No

Red Crow wrote: »

Why should David Moyes listen to Ryan Giggs' tactics who has no experience as a manager?

Why hire him as a coach then if he is not willing to listen to anything he has to say?

Thecon21

No

Al Capwned wrote: »

I can see Moyes getting the summer window, and at least the early period (10/12 games perhaps) of next season at the very least.

It's getting harder and harder to support him. But I still do.
You may call that blind faith, delusion, stubbornness or whatever.

I do not do this because Ferguson asked the fans to get behind him, I do it because I think it's the right thing to do. It is entirely possible that I'm wrong, and I'm sure the majority of people reading this believe that I am wrong.
Some posters will surely ask why, and tbh I can't give an answer that would adequately answer that. Especially when presented with the constant stream of perfectly valid arguments as to why a lot of you want to see him out!

Up to around Christmas, I would have said that I wouldn't change my mind on this. Right now though, I would have to say that I am on the cusp of it.

That's a fair post Al, although I am now against Moyes after too many mistakes/poor results, your thoughts seem rational.. You're not spouting some of the other stuff as others are thankfully..

I would have loved if Moyes worked out, unfortunately though these things can happen and mistakes can be made in appointing a new manager

beno619

No

Bannerman7 wrote: »

Who said no one person is bigger than the club ?
That's right Ferguson said so and when Moyes goes Ferguson should have little say who the next manager will be.
Most people think Moyes will be sacked at the end of this season so I bet Ferguson will keep a lower profile when it happens.

I really hate the way Fergie has been portrayed this season. Nobody has a clue about how he feels about the current state of affairs and nobody knows if he's keeping Moyes in his job or not.

While Fergie made mistakes he usually rectified them.

Rubber_Soul

No

With David Weir's comments about Moyes approaching the game from a defenders perspective, it actually wouldn't surprise me to find out he is ignoring the opinion of the one attack minded person amongst his whole coaching staff. Still though, the source may as well be some lad in the pub in terms of legitimacy.

beno619

No

Valmont wrote: »

One bad season doesn't equal decimation!

Our squad could be decimated come September, underachieving in every competition and moral at an all time low

I agree, it has been a disaster but I wonder whether it's Moyes or the players who think they know more than he does!

Its Moyes, these players are winners and Moyes is an amateur in comparison.

If blah blah blah is the noise you have to make to hide from yourself the fact you want Man Utd to be the next Chelsea type club then so be it!

Chelsea sacked a manager who won them the Champions league if you cant see the difference between that and sacking a man who has failed to meet all his targets with no clear plan to address the problems then all your arguments seem ridiculous.

Mongo

Why aren't United playing this weekend?

Lord TSC

No

Mongo wrote: »

Why aren't United playing this weekend?

Were due to face City. they have the cup final though so match was pushed back.

BloodBath

No

bucketybuck wrote: »

Rooney and Van Persie are averaging around one pass to each other per game. Either people believe that Wayne Rooney isn't working hard enough or they believe there is a serious problem with the tactical setup of the side. I know which I believe.

No they believe the bs spouted by the media saying there is a gulf between the 2 players.

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

A major fear for me is that while I agree we need a rebuild, I feel the wrong pieces are getting removed in an effort to fix things up.

The players we need to replace, Valencia, Young, Cleverly....there aren't any stories linking them away, and I'm not getting the vibes they are leaving.

Instead, we get the likes of RVP linked away, Kagawa and Hernandez being left out in the cold. Rio and Vidic are older and, imo, shouldn't be first teamers. But they still offer a wealth of experience to the squad in multiple ways.

I'm terrified of a summer under Moyes. I feel like the rebuild, as it stands, looks to be happening in completely the wrong way.

Rio is not worth a damn to us at the moment. I said at the start of the season that he was past it and nowhere near the standard needed to which I got many angry responses saying "but sure he was on the team of the year."

If anything he's damaging efforts at the club. The sooner he's gone the better. Thanks for your service Rio. You have been fantastic for the club but it's time to move on.

Vidic has another season or 2 in him but is also practically past it. There's no point having a player who is constantly injured. You need your 2 CB's playing side by side, week in week out like they did in their prime.

Van Persie leaving could be beneficial to the team as well. We would get decent money for him and it would allow Rooney and Mata to move into their best positions. I'm hoping RVP goes in the summer. He's not getting any younger either.

Sadly Moyes will probably let Kagawa go instead of using him as part of a dynamic attacking trio.

Cleverly is on lower wages than most and is a perfectly adequate as a squad player. Don't get me wrong, he has been terrible lately but there are bigger fish to fry in this window. Nani, Valencia and Young should all be sold though.

The_Kew_Tour

No

No dropped pints this weekend lads!!!

I'll drink to that'

KombuchaMshroom

No

Red Crow wrote: »

Are we getting relegated? It's one poor season. Cop on to yourself.

A) he said "if" we were to get relegated, and
you are missing his point completely. Its nonsense that we have to support Moyes regardless of what he achieves. If Ferguson chose Mark Hughes to take over would you be saying we have to support him no questions asked. The man signed bebe djemba djemba obertan etc and left pogba escape. He has made mistakes before and its pretty clear his last decision was a mistake too.

Nalz

No

adox wrote: »

It's not. It's really not.

I want Moyes out but I do think its stupid to compare Fergusons start to Moyes. Why isn't it, why really isn't it?

The_Kew_Tour

No

Trilla wrote: »

I want Moyes out but I do think its stupid to compare Fergusons start to Moyes. Why isn't it, why really isn't it?

Well here it goes........ AGAIN

One manger took over a team that won the league 11 points

Another took over a team in relagation zone.

tallaghtmick

No

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Well here it goes........ AGAIN

One manger took over a team that won the league 11 points

Another took over a team in relagation zone.

One more time please :pac:

Rubber_Soul

No

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Well here it goes........ AGAIN

One manger took over a team that won the league 11 points

Another took over a team in relagation zone.

It was a team that hadn't finished outside the top 4 in 5 or 6 years and was filled with internationals, including the English captain who was one of the finest midfielders the country had produced.

Yes Fergie had a massive task in changing the culture at the club and yes Moyes took over a massively better situation but the team Fergie took over wasn't as bad as you've implied repeatedly.

Thecon21

No

Trilla wrote: »

I want Moyes out but I do think its stupid to compare Fergusons start to Moyes. Why isn't it, why really isn't it?

Why isn't what?

BFassassin

Stupid google now didn't update their fixture list so I though the derby was on today! I'll know not to trust them again

Nalz

No

Lingard wins a pen on his debut for brighton

bucketybuck

No

BloodBath wrote: »

No they believe the bs spouted by the media saying there is a gulf between the 2 players.

What has media BS got to do with the facts?

The only pass RVP made to Rooney against Olympiakos was the kick off. Rooney had four passes to RVP all game.

Against Stoke there were only three passes total between the two players.

Fulham, one pass from Rooney to Van Persie all game excluding the kick off.

Against Arsenal Rooney passed to Van Persie just twice all game.

West Brom, zero passes from Rooney to Van Persie when he came on.

Both Swansea games, Rooney had only two passes to Van Persie

These are facts and nothing to do with media BS. The original point was the players were not trying, well then £300000 per week Wayne Rooney is not trying because these facts are a disgrace.

Or...perhaps the problem is a little deeper than the players not huffing and puffing enough...

BloodBath

No

No they aren't facts. They are statistics used by certain media to construct soap like storylines instead of analysing why there are so few pases between them.

It's 100% down to how weak our midfield is and the tactics being deployed by Moyes.

If you watched the games instead of reading nonsense you would know this.

Your Airbag

Comparing Fergies start to Moyes is equally as pointless as asking a hypothetical about Moyes getting sacked if we were fighting relegation.

Fergie didn't have the financial clout then we have now.

Moyes has us in 6th, there is a world of difference between that and a relegation battle.

tallaghtmick

No

Your Airbag wrote: »

Comparing Fergies start to Moyes is equally as pointless as asking a hypothetical about Moyes getting sacked if we were fighting relegation.

Fergie didn't have the financial clout then we have now.

Moyes has us in 6th, there is a world of difference between that and a relegation battle.

His point was the whole back your manager no matter what, we surely wouldnt if we where relegated.

Macca07

Jack Barmby scores for Hartlepool in League 2. 2nd goal in his 6th game I think

Nalz

No

Trilla wrote: »

Lingard wins a pen on his debut for brighton

Macca07 wrote: »

Jack Barmby scores for Hartlepool in League 2. 2nd goal in his 6th game I think

and then............................there's this

Unbelievable Jeff





unreal

Macca07

Trilla wrote: »

and then............................there's this

Unbelievable Jeff

unreal

What a waste of talent Morrisson is though, he had the world at his feet when he was with United. Think he'll end up being a jouneyman in the Championship.

Macca07

Macca07 wrote: »

Jack Barmby scores for Hartlepool in League 2. 2nd goal in his 6th game I think

Goal and assist now for him. Hope he has more talent than his dad.

tallaghtmick

No

Macca07 wrote: »

Goal and assist now for him. Hope he has more talent than his dad.

Nick Barmby was a good player.

Macca07

tallaghtmick wrote: »

Nick Barmby was a good player.

Not United standard though.

tallaghtmick

No

Macca07 wrote: »

Not United standard though.

Was he Clev standard

Macca07

tallaghtmick wrote: »

Was he Clev standard

Think I'd take Nick Barmby at this stage over Clev

Macca07

We have a better chance of catching Arsenal at this stage over Pool, next 4 games in the league for them at Spurs away, Chelsea away, City at home and Everton away.

Timmyctc

No

We still have to play and attempt not to get spanked by city and Liverpool too though. Its a sad day when a win for Southampton over Liverpool will have us looking over our shoulder, and still miles off fourth

Mitch Connor

No

Moyes still not fired?

whats the hold up?

Your Airbag

tallaghtmick wrote: »

His point was the whole back your manager no matter what, we surely wouldnt if we where relegated.

Its not a valid point to ask it when your talking relegation.

Backing your manager to come good depends on the club being managed.

Some people feel that we should still give Moyes time to get it right even based on a 6th-7th place finish. That is not unreasonable.

Taking us to relegation would be impossible with this team, this is as bad as it can get right now.

A fanbase sticking by a manager of a team expecting to be and eventually being relegated is not unreasonable. If they think he can rebuild and bring them back up.

Talking anything about UTD being relegated is silly because it simply would not happed to the modern UTD. Its near impossible. Moyes would have to be taking bribes, throwing matches and playing corrupt players for it to happen. He'd have to worry about jail rather than a sacking.

bucketybuck

No

BloodBath wrote: »

No they aren't facts.

Are you trying to say that those passing stats are not accurate, not factual?

Oh wait, you are the guy that thinks Valencia is worth 16m, I guess you struggle with numbers and figures.

2moreMinutes

StarshipPooper wrote: »

It was a team that hadn't finished outside the top 4 in 5 or 6 years and was filled with internationals, including the English captain who was one of the finest midfielders the country had produced.

Yes Fergie had a massive task in changing the culture at the club and yes Moyes took over a massively better situation but the team Fergie took over wasn't as bad as you've implied repeatedly.

Agree with the above. Fergie took over around Halloween if I recall what my Dad said recently correctly (I was only a wee innocent kid at the time:)).
Granted, we were in the relegation zone at that time but it was only Halloween so its not as dramatic a point as it sounds and especially when its considered the players at his disposal in that team. Its factually correct that there were a few, ummmm, social, drinkers in the team at the time but it was the mid 80's so every single team at that time had players who spent as much time in the pub as they did on the training pitch. To say he took over a pub team or a team full of alcoholics is a little bit disingenuous.

Now, in saying all that, I 100% agree that its nonsense to say that Moyes should get the same amount of time that Fergie did purely because Fergie got that time and we all know what happened when he did. I think its nonsense to say Moyes should get more time just because Fergie said to support him. I think its nonsense to say Moyes should get more time just because we're not Chelsea/City/AN Other and we don't sack managers on a whim.

However, I do think he should get more time so that he can create his own team. He needs time to get rid of the players he wants to get rid of, to get in players he wants to get in and then to give him a chance to get his team playing in a manner that will bring success again.
I know that's not a popular opinion and I know there are valid and understandable arguments put forward by those with an opposite viewpoint to me but I'm not for changing my mind yet. If it takes this season's performances and results to really highlight the deficiencies in the team, then so be it so long as those deficiencies are remedied in the summer. Its only one season and even though its been an absolutely forgettable one, its still only one season.

Your Airbag

For anyone who missed it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98WC7cdGU0w

David Moyes on the postponement of today's game vs City:

"Finally we got a bit of luck, that rub of the green which I knew was coming, long may it continue."



*Not an actual David Moyes quote!*

tallaghtmick

No

Your Airbag wrote: »

Its not a valid point to ask it when your talking relegation.

Backing your manager to come good depends on the club being managed.

Some people feel that we should still give Moyes time to get it right even based on a 6th-7th place finish. That is not unreasonable.

Taking us to relegation would be impossible with this team, this is as bad as it can get right now.

A fanbase sticking by a manager of a team expecting to be and eventually being relegated is not unreasonable. If they think he can rebuild and bring them back up.

Talking anything about UTD being relegated is silly because it simply would not happed to the modern UTD. Its near impossible. Moyes would have to be taking bribes, throwing matches and playing corrupt players for it to happen. He'd have to worry about jail rather than a sacking.

You're making it out to be more than he meant, IF we got relegated would you stand by Moyes? No, so why should we stand by as he makes the champions into a mid table team, thats the point he made. Relegation/mid table muck its not acceptable.

You say relegation is impossible.....did you see us 7th please answer that.

Rayne Wooney

Stoke beat Arsenal

They could self destruct over the next month

It'll probably be Everton or Spurs who capitalise though

tallaghtmick

No

Non united related Pardew loafed Meyler

LuckyCharms

Just watched that, Giles is in total denial, Moyes spent 60m already, how much money are we gonna throw at this for Moyes to finally get his stamp on the team.

The fact is, Moyes will never be good enough to win the UCL no matter how much money is thrown at the current issues. He isnt good enough to win the EPL either even with unlimited resources unless he kidnaps Ronnie or Messi.

1. Giles behaving like one of the most biased pro Moyes fanatics.
   
2. Moyes doesn't have control over the current dressing room.
   
3. Doesn't seem to be able to motivate the players at all
   
4. He is still playing ppl like Rio who are completely uninterested in playing for him.
   
5. No tactical nous
   
6. His subs and starting 11s have been bordering on the disastrous at times
   
7. The football he has the club playing is shocking poor and the results are way worse.
   
8. Has spent a fortune already and brought badly imo
   
9. Can't think of one positive thing he has brought to the club tbf
   

I said that i didn't want him for a myriad of reasons when he was appointed but the fact is no matter what the criteria that most reasonable people decided to judge him upon at the start of the season, he is failing miserably. This whole give the lad 2 years is nonsense. 2 years and a couple of hundred million down the drain wont help alleviate the alarming problems that are highlighted at present, clearly can't control the dressing room, the side has completely lost any winning mentality, no cutting edge, no passion from the players, rarely even see them put in a shift against opposition now.

Your Airbag

tallaghtmick wrote: »

You're making it out to be more than he meant, IF we got relegated would you stand by Moyes? No, so why should we stand by as he makes the champions into a mid table team, thats the point he made. Relegation/mid table muck its not acceptable.

You say relegation is impossible.....did you see us 7th please answer that.

My point was and is that the level of how acceptable it is to stand by a manager is directly related to the club he is managing.

It would be acceptable to stand by Moyes through relegation if he was managing Sunderland or Hull. Of course it would not be acceptable to stand by him if he got UTD relegated because it would be the big balls up in the history of football.

There is a world of difference between 7th and 18th. Your looking at 4-6 games losing streaks in the league.

Our current but not final position is 7th. When you consider that any manager coming into a club has to be given time to build his own team and that we had 25 yrs of a previous manager , you can't say less than one season and two transfers windows is enough time. The first window in which the first he wanted to asses what he had as well as tried to make some of his own signings.

To answer your question did I see us in 7th? No, i expected a drop and adjustment but thats not to say it proves you right to question why people should stick with him. To stick with him if we finish 7th is not shocking when you factor in our aging squad, Moyes wanting to rebuild based on what he has seen from the players at his disposal.

To want to see him have more time based on 7th is not unreasonable, 18th yes.

inforfun

No

Your Airbag wrote: »

For anyone who missed it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98WC7cdGU0w

Finally got to hear what Giles said about Van Persie and his quoting of Van Persie.

Now, word for for the translation isnt wrong.

The last line though where Van Persie says "I think that is a shame" (about other players occupying the spaces/opportunities he wants to exploit).

It is the word "shame" i wouldnt have used. For me, having heard the interview in Dutch, "pity" would have been a better way to translate what Van Persie was saying.

tallaghtmick

No

Your Airbag wrote: »

My point was and is that the level of how acceptable it is to stand by a manager is directly related to the club he is managing.

It would be acceptable to stand by Moyes through relegation if he was managing Sunderland or Hull. Of course it would not be acceptable to stand by him if he got UTD relegated because it would be the big balls up in the history of football.

Their is a world of difference between 7th and 18th. Your looking and 4-6 games losing streaks in the league.

Our current but not final position is 7th. When you consider that any manager coming into a club has to be given time to build his own team and that we had 25 yrs of a previous manager , you can't say less than one season and two transfers windows is enough time. The first window in which the first he wanted to asses what he had as well as tried to make some of his own signings.

To answer your question did I see us in 7th? No, i expected a drop and adjustment but thats not to say it proves you right to question why people should stick with him. To stick be him if we finish 7th is not crazy when you factor in our aging squad, Moyes wanting to rebuild based on what he has seen from the players at his disposal.

To want to see him have more time based on 7th is not unreasonable, 18th yes.

Its not just the position but also the horrific play awful tactics, players falling out with him etc, I said id give him 2 years maybe 3 but not now, ive had enough especially after the champions league and his excuses the past few weeks.

Anyways off to the lego movie, hopefully Southampton do us a favour and ill be back on to read a giant airbag reply

Your Airbag

tallaghtmick wrote: »

Its not just the position but also the horrific play awful tactics, players falling out with him etc, I said id give him 2 years maybe 3 but not now, ive had enough especially after the champions league and his excuses the past few weeks.

Anyways off to the lego movie, hopefully Southampton do us a favour and ill be back on to read a giant airbag reply

I fully understand people wanting him gone. I don't question this. I just replied to show why some are willing to give him more time but I 100% anyone who's had enough.

Yes the tactics have been poor and the football not a joy to watch but I'm willing to give him more time based on the assumption or hope on my part that Moyes doesn't have the players in to play it his way and has tried to adjust based on what is at his disposal and it hasn't worked.

That and the fact we have been and playing some poor football the past two seasons, even though winning trophies and this sqaud was due an overhaul not matter who came in. It was due an overhaul in MF for 3 seasons before this and the ball was well and truly dropped in that area and it cannot poosibly be helping.

KombuchaMshroom

No

That video is further evidence that Richie Sadlier is the best pundit on RTE, I've thought that since I seen his analysis of the world cup qualifiers.

Well reasoned arguments based on clear facts, as opposed to the sensationalism and heads in the sands stuff that the rest of them constantly show.