Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod Warning: Post #7871

Keep Moyes and I'll be surprised if ye challenge for the title next season

Hank Scorpio

No

rarnes1 wrote: »

Keep Moyes and I'll be surprised if ye challenge for 4th next season

fyp

Lord TSC

No

Liam O wrote: »

The amount of 1 goal losses and draws to bottom half teams will not be repeated. Be looking to get more than a point of Chelsea and 2 off Spurs I think it was too. More motivation from everyone for a fresh start and hopefully get better luck with injuries to key players. At the very least I expect everyone at the club to know where they stand at the start of next season and that itself should be worth a lot more points.

David, is that you? :P

No but seriously, nothing I've seen suggests Moyes is doing anything other than preforming at his level right now.

Liam O

happyoutscan wrote: »

Do you realistically expect the teams above you to underperform to the level that you have this year? That's what you would almost certainly need to overtake the majority of them, which I can't see happening. Obviously one or another might implode but can't see too many doing that.

They don't have to underperform, United just have to perform to potential. Sure Liverpool will never be a top 4 club with a small time manager like Rodgers there. They definitely wont improve when he's able to bring in the players he wants.

Cantona's Collars

Interesting read here, http://redmancunian.com/2014/03/02/go-wrong-manchester-united-season/

mitosis

happyoutscan wrote: »

Do you realistically expect the teams above you to underperform to the level that you have this year? That's what you would almost certainly need to overtake the majority of them, which I can't see happening. Obviously one or another might implode but can't see too many doing that.

I dunno, it happened last year.........

spiralism

No

Macca07 wrote: »

Based on this season, I wouldn't be so sure. We're probably going to be losing 3 of the back 4, still haven't sorted out midfield, and Roo and Rvp aren't linking up properly. The tactics and attitude this season have been terrible, and only one person is to blame for that. If Moyes is still manager next season, I wouldn't expect much more than this season.

If Moyes is still in next season i'd be expecting a near total disaster and flirting with relegation, winding up somewhere around 14th. We're 3 from 12 this year and have played all of the bottom 6 in that spell. Things are getting worse, not better.

Think i'm being overly pessimistic? Who here foresaw it being this bad? 3rd seemed to be an overly negative prediction last season.

Will I Amnt

No

happyoutscan wrote: »

Do you realistically expect the teams above you to underperform to the level that you have this year? That's what you would almost certainly need to overtake the majority of them, which I can't see happening. Obviously one or another might implode but can't see too many doing that.

You're not getting it. This isn't United's level.
It's not other teams underperforming that we need, it's this one performing at its peak or even close to it.

LuckyLloyd

No

Macca07 wrote: »

Question for ye...

If you had a choice, which would you take at this exact moment to get our season on track?

A 27 year old Roy Keane, would had so much to our midfield and would give a good kick up the hole that some players need

or

Cristiano Ronaldo

Keane at his peak would solve so many issues for ye automatically. Would offer the platform you have lacked in a lot of games.

Al Capwned wrote: »

Liverpool will get CL football next season, and they deserve it. They've been consistently good, and are now nailed on for a top 4 imo. Possibly even get 3rd ahead of Arsenal.

Where they might come up short is with the depth of quality in their squad. A couple of injuries to key players and they will struggle to stay in the top 4 next season unless they buy well this summer.

I think this is a fair opinion, certainly one that I'd share. We have structural problems in our squad and will need to be aggressive in the transfer market irrespective of how our last 10 league games go.

2moreMinutes

spiralism wrote: »

If Moyes is still in next season i'd be expecting a near total disaster and flirting with relegation, winding up somewhere around 14th. We're 3 from 12 this year and have played all of the bottom 6 in that spell. Things are getting worse, not better.

Think i'm being overly pessimistic? Who here foresaw it being this bad? 3rd seemed to be an overly negative prediction last season.

This is hilarious. You really should do stand up.

Peter Flynt

2moreMinutes wrote: »

This is hilarious. You really should do stand up.

In fairness it would have seemed hilarious six months ago that just after Manchester City won the first major honour, United would be 18 points off the top in seventh place and effectively out of the running for a Champions League spot after having gone out of the League Cup, FA cup and on their way out of the CL.

At this stage all bets are off.

Augmerson

Liam O wrote: »

They don't have to underperform, United just have to perform to potential. Sure Liverpool will never be a top 4 club with a small time manager like Rodgers there. They definitely wont improve when he's able to bring in the players he wants.

Can't tell if sarcastic or genuinely serious.

Dicky Pride

No

2moreMinutes wrote: »

This is hilarious. You really should do stand up.

You're deluded. Someone asked me for odds on Man Utd not finishing in the first 4 this season and I gave him 10-1 and thought I was collecting easy money. I couldn't see how a team that had won the league by 11 points could regress so badly. After the Summer of transfers, or lack of transfers, I knew we wouldn't be winning any league, but I still thought we had the quality to finish 2nd or 3rd.

But look at where we are. Deservedly so. Absolutely clueless in basically all areas of the park. If we continue as we are i.e. if we continue with David Moyes and his crew of inexperienced misfits then we will be lurking around the relegation area next season. To think that's far fetched is to be completely blind to what is happening to the club.

Agueroooo

Liam O wrote: »

They don't have to underperform, United just have to perform to potential. Sure Liverpool will never be a top 4 club with a small time manager like Rodgers there. They definitely wont improve when he's able to bring in the players he wants.

Lord TSC

No

Ah come off it. I'm all aboard the Moyes Out train, but we won't be in relegation zone.

I fear he'd cement us into the 5th-8th bracket, but while I'm all for providing logical reasons why he should go, let's not resort to hysterics in the process.

Dicky Pride

No

If I said to you at the start of the season that Moyes would have us in mid table by March, you'd be calling me hysterical.

I don't think it will get that bad. But we can't rule anything out the way things are currently going.

Mikeyt086

No

Dicky Pride wrote: »

If I said to you at the start of the season that Moyes would have us in mid table by March, you'd be calling me hysterical.

I don't think it will get that bad. But we can't rule anything out the way things are currently going.

Some predicted it in July and were routinely ridiculed.

Dicky Pride

No

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

Some predicted it in July and were routinely ridiculed.

I can believe it.

Lord TSC

No

Dicky Pride wrote: »

If I said to you at the start of the season that Moyes would have us in mid table by March, you'd be calling me hysterical.

Yes....because it would be hysterical.

If the world ends tomorrow, it doesn't make the crazy guy on the street in his pants and a sandwich board look intelligent or well-informed.

It could happen. So too could we sign Messi or Ronaldo. But making such crazy predictions now is still crazy.

Dicky Pride

No

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Yes....because it would be hysterical.

If the world ends tomorrow, it doesn't make the crazy guy on the street in his pants and a sandwich board look intelligent or well-informed.

It could happen. So too could we sign Messi or Ronaldo. But making such crazy predictions now is still crazy.

By your reasoning, saying that it won't happen is just as crazy.

Headshot

No

Moyes will just create another Liverpool at utd, we'll dwindle in the 5-6 spot for years

For the good of our club and long term, Moyes has to go this summer. I just cant stress it enough. The man has destroyed a PL winning team, do you want him to keep on destroying this great team?

Lord TSC

No

Dicky Pride wrote: »

By your reasoning, saying that it won't happen is just as crazy.

No, saying it won't happen is based on logic; it's never happened to Moyes before, never happened to the current batch of players and even at our worst (and by God, we've been dirt this year), we still are in 7th.

To go into relegation zone, we'd have to jump several million feet backwards. There's plenty of theoretical evidence to think reasonably that we'll not be fighting a relegation battle next year, while there is practically none to suggest we will.

2moreMinutes

One of the things that I enjoy about following football is the emotion that comes attached to being a fan of any club. Whether its Man Utd, Man City, Liverpool or Finn Harps, its always entertaining watching, listening or reading the emotional, outlandish opinions of those fans both in good and bad times.

Hidalgo

Will I Amnt wrote: »

You're not getting it. This isn't United's level.
It's not other teams underperforming that we need, it's this one performing at its peak or even close to it.

What has been witnessed this season is way below the very high usual Utd level.

There's no guarantee they'll return to near that level though with Moyes in charge, Ferguson was a massive part in the high level.

Hidalgo

Headshot wrote: »

Moyes will just create another Liverpool at utd, we'll dwindle in the 5-6 spot for years

For the good of our club and long term, Moyes has to go this summer. I just cant stress it enough. The man has destroyed a PL winning team, do you want him to keep on destroying this great team?

Very possible and with 2 major differences with Liverpool's fall from grace
1. Utd are a massive global brand with huge revenues, even outside CL they'll still operate at a high financial level. Of course the longer a side remains outside it, the harder it becomes to recruit CL type players without merely offering a higher pay packet to a transfer target.

2. Even though Liverpool havn't been a title winning force for over 20 years, they were still consistently getting to the CL (or were until 08/09). Its harder today then 10-15 years ago with the power Chelsea and Man City now wqeild in the transfer market. They're 2 you expect to fill the top 4 slots, the days of a closed top 4 shop looks gone, becoming more cluttered with 6 or 7 potentials for those 4 elusive spots

Nalz

No

Headshot wrote: »

Moyes will just create another Liverpool at utd, we'll dwindle in the 5-6 spot for years

In the same way there's various concepts and variables back when Fergie took over to not compare it to Moyes start, there's variables at play here to say that what you say above is impossible to predict\deduce

J. Marston

No

http://www.teamtalk.com/manchester-united/9193060/Premier-League-Sir-Alex-Ferguson-backs-David-Moyes-to-be-a-Manchester-United-success

Just admit your mistake, for fúck sake.

scudzilla

No

J. Marston wrote: »

http://www.teamtalk.com/manchester-united/9193060/Premier-League-Sir-Alex-Ferguson-backs-David-Moyes-to-be-a-Manchester-United-success

Just admit your mistake, for fúck sake.

He will.....in his next book

Lord TSC

No

J. Marston wrote: »

http://www.teamtalk.com/manchester-united/9193060/Premier-League-Sir-Alex-Ferguson-backs-David-Moyes-to-be-a-Manchester-United-success

Just admit your mistake, for fúck sake.

He isn't going to throw Moyes under the bus publicly.

Headshot

No

Trilla wrote: »

In the same way there's various concepts and variables back when Fergie took over to not compare it to Moyes start, there's variables at play here to say that what you say above is impossible to predict\deduce

I dont think its hard to predict/deduce when you look at this second rate manager has done during his career. Its a good call by me.

J. Marston wrote: »

http://www.teamtalk.com/manchester-united/9193060/Premier-League-Sir-Alex-Ferguson-backs-David-Moyes-to-be-a-Manchester-United-success

Just admit your mistake, for fúck sake.

I dont put much stock in that but I guarantee his stubbornness will halt the process of getting rid of Moyes

Courtesy Flush

No

I think Fergie sees Moyes situation as akin to his own when he became United manager, even if it isnt
Ferguson has frequently mentioned the people who stood by him in the tough early days, that he has never forgotton that
I think Ferguson will stick by Moyes come hell or high water

KH25

No

Its very difficult to listen to SAF and give Moyes time when you look at the performances on the pitch. I could stand by Moyes easily if I could see a genuine attempt to play better football and impose a different type of system on the team. Rodgers I think is the best example of this and he is now reaping the rewards. With Moyes though there is very little other than get it wide/give it to Rooney/give it to Januzaj.

Augmerson

J. Marston wrote: »

http://www.teamtalk.com/manchester-united/9193060/Premier-League-Sir-Alex-Ferguson-backs-David-Moyes-to-be-a-Manchester-United-success

Just admit your mistake, for fúck sake.

Moyes here to stay.

plasteritup

lads chelsea are top of the league on 63 points,if we win our game in hand we are 15 points behind,we have been dire this season absolutley rubbish at times.

With moyes in charge next season money spent in the summer i think we would be on 60 to 70 points this stage next season.
does anyone agree with this and would a points tally of 65 at this stage next season be acceptable to people in here.

it would mean winning five more games than we have done this season,i think of newcastle everton and swansea as three we should have one and the fulham game as 2 more points thats 11 points more already,outside of doing better against spurs chelsea and city.

what im getting at is as bad as we have been when you look at it honestly i think under moyes we will be right there next season.

Jimmy Iovine

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

He isn't going to throw Moyes under the bus publicly.

Especially not at some party in LA.

Paul Tergat

plasteritup wrote: »

With moyes in charge next season money spent in the summer i think we would be on 60 to 70 points this stage next season.
does anyone agree with this and would a points tally of 65 at this stage next season be acceptable to people in here.

why?

he can spends what he wants but when the tactics are still ****e and the team isnt playing tell i cant see much changing

Whatsisname

No

Saw this on Redcafe regarding the whole "200m warchest" and I couldn't agree more

Why are we spending 200m to create a squad "even Moyes can win with", instead of trying to find a good manager who can win with the squad we already have (and already won things with)?

plasteritup

Paul Tergat wrote: »

why?

he can spends what he wants but when the tactics are still ****e and the team isnt playing tell i cant see much changing

to much being read into this tactics thing,playing how we have been with moyes tactics we should still be higher up the league.i think players not having to look over there shoulder at fergie and taking foot off the gas has much more to do with it.if we were 2nd ie 4 results more going our way this season playing as we are there wouldnt be half the talk about tactics.

Lord TSC

No

Whatsisname wrote: »

Saw this on Redcafe regarding the whole "200m warchest" and I couldn't agree more

Actually as you post that...it's funny that some people don't want us to be like City or Chelsea in terms of sacking managers, so the way to stop that is to spend an absurd level of cash....just like City or Chelsea.

double GG

No

One possible positive that can be taken from Olympiakos game result is that we now have to come out and actually play attacking football again.

Get Kagawa, Rooney and RVP on the pitch at once and let them play, no holds barred.

Send Valencia and Young for another month at least in Dubai.

Go at them from the start with a bit of bite and vigour and win the damn football game.

eagle eye

No

I just don't get the amount of people who are continually calling for Kagawa to play? He has never/rarely done it in a United shirt, I've never seen him play well for them.

double GG

No

eagle eye wrote: »

I just don't get the amount of people who are continually calling for Kagawa to play? He has never/rarely done it in a United shirt, I've never seen him play well for them.

He may not have lit the place up but look at the other options.... Young, Valencia...

At least Kagawa has shown to be able to create something intermittently this season.

Whatsisname

No

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Actually as you post that...it's funny that some people don't want us to be like City or Chelsea in terms of sacking managers, so the way to stop that is to spend an absurd level of cash....just like City or Chelsea.

Exactly this. Our squad has a few holes but jesus, no where near bad enough to require 200m worth of investment.

Also, speaking of Olympiakos, apparently they lost 3-0 at home today, highlights just how bad we actually were

DM_7

I don't agree with the idea another manager would get great success with current side, unless Premier league was prioritised and other teams continued to underperform.

Moyes approach so far is a problem for sure.

But United were horrible in europe the last few seasons. It was going to take big changes and investment to turn that trend regardless of who came in.

Last time United went from struggling in league to european highs they needed serious investment. Time and Money in Rooney & Ronaldo. Vidic, Evra. Carrick, Hargreaves, Tevez, Nani, Andreson all brought in over 18 months to improve the first team and the squad (VDS and Park if you go back another 6 months). Similar situation this time as far as playing personnel goes.

Paul Tergat

plasteritup wrote: »

to much being read into this tactics thing,playing how we have been with moyes tactics we should still be higher up the league.i think players not having to look over there shoulder at fergie and taking foot off the gas has much more to do with it.if we were 2nd ie 4 results more going our way this season playing as we are there wouldnt be half the talk about tactics.

pretty much every part of this post is rubbish. ifs arent going to win us games. the manager picking the right way to play is, and he hasnt been. this is a fact

DazMarz

No

Serious investment is needed in the summer. It might not be as extreme as £200m, but it is going to be massive.

I would estimate that United need the following to get Champions League football next season and challenge for the title:

-At least one, if not two, quality centre backs
-A quality left back
-Two quality central midfielders

They will also potentially need to get replacements in for Nani, Valencia, Young, Van Persie and Kagawa. It is not just United's starting eleven that needs overhaul, it is the squad too. United need to buy in some cover in the summer.

Who should United be looking at?

Centre halves: potential targets could/should include; Hummels, Subotic, Papadopoulos, Vertongen, Wollscheid, Caceres, etc.

Midfielders: Lars Bender, Sven Bender, Vidal, Strootman, Kroos, Pjanic, Sandro, Guarín... this is an area that is of critical importance to United and needs a lot of thought.

Left back: Coentrao, Shaw

And then squad players.

It is going to be a massive job, and an expensive one. But will David Moyes be the man to being in the required players? Will he be able to manage and motivate them? Will the tactics change?

Only time will tell...

jebus84

No

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urUEeDsCRnk

.


not sure of posted up already been seen this on another forum

Kagawa v Olympiakos.

perfect illustration of Moyes not knowing how to use a great player. And of Ashley Young's uselessness.

plasteritup

Paul Tergat wrote: »

pretty much every part of this post is rubbish. ifs arent going to win us games. the manager picking the right way to play is, and he hasnt been. this is a fact

so IF he changed tactics we start winning,calling everthing i said rubbish,its fine margins where we are in the league and its all IFS,done this discussion with you when you come back with everything i said is rubbish,ya young and valencia didnt play all season kagawa did and we would be top of the league.

spiralism

No

J. Marston wrote: »

http://www.teamtalk.com/manchester-united/9193060/Premier-League-Sir-Alex-Ferguson-backs-David-Moyes-to-be-a-Manchester-United-success

Just admit your mistake, for fúck sake.

Sir Alex in not admitting he was wrong shocker. Short of Moyes getting three years and managing to relegate the club he won't either.

Paul Tergat

plasteritup wrote: »

so IF he changed tactics we start winning,calling everthing i said rubbish,its fine margins where we are in the league and its all IFS,done this discussion with you when you come back with everything i said is rubbish,ya young and valencia didnt play all season kagawa did and we would be top of the league.

what are you rambling on about?

he's persisted with the same style of play. nothing we have seen has suggested he will change this. we stumbled upon an alright performance against palace - some of us though ahhh some progress. However, it seemed like it was merely Moyes resting his star wingers to bring back 4-4-2 as we got soundly beaten in Greece.

again, you are dealing with ifs. if kagawa played we may have been doing better but the fact is moyes hasnt been playing him. so we should stick with moyes cause if he played kagawa, which he hasnt been, you think we would be top of the league.

basically, ive no idea what you are talking about