Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod Warning: Post #7871

tallaghtmick

No

How is Anderson getting on in Italy?

Headshot

No

tallaghtmick wrote: »

How is Anderson getting on in Italy?

Loves the Pizza

beno619

No

Pro. F wrote: »

Sorry for the late reply, real life has kept me busy.

The first Leverkusen game Kagawa played on the left with Rooney and RvP central.

So that leaves the second Leverkusen game and the Swansea half game (after he swapped with Januzaj to go central) where the team played better than the awful stuff they've mostly played this season against poor opposition. That's very few examples, they're against poor teams and the play was still not particularly impressive. I would argue that those slight improvements in performance were down to chance and the quality of the opposition rather than Kagawa playing in his preferred position.

Yeah he moved into CAM for the last 20 mins in the first leverkuzen game and we became more fluent and football was just flat out better.

It's definitely a small sample size but it is definitely a bit unfair to take the little bit of credit that can be given to Kagawa this season away from him. Swansea and Leverkuzen arnt poor and we have certainly played poorer sides this season. We have played our best football with Kagawa in the hole. That's a fact.

Pro. F

No

beno619 wrote: »

Yeah he moved into CAM for the last 20 mins in the first leverkuzen game and we became more fluent and football was just flat out better.

It's definitely a small sample size but it is definitely a bit unfair to take the little bit of credit that can be given to Kagawa this season away from him. Swansea and Leverkuzen arnt poor and we have certainly played poorer sides this season. We have played our best football with Kagawa in the hole. That's a fact.

Kags wasn't on the pitch for the last 20 minutes of that Leverkusen game, he was the first subbed off and that happened in the 71st minute.

I'm not looking to take the small bit of credit away from Kagawa that he is due. He has sometimes looked okay the few times he has played in the hole this season. That is fair. Saying that the team plays well with Kagawa at number 10 is drawing a conclusion from a tiny and exaggerated sample.

v3ttel

tallaghtmick wrote: »

How is Anderson getting on in Italy?

He's hardly kicked a ball for them. Any time I check the Fiorentina line up (using the FotMob app on Android, I'd semi regularly check a good few teamsheets), he hasn't started. They left him out of the Copa Italia game against Roma that was on Sky. Wikipedia says he only has 3 appearances.

The loan was a completely pointless one IMHO. If he goes away, performs fantastically well and revitalises his career, they'll buy him for the set price agreed, and we lose a player who could potentially help us. If he goes away, performs like crap, or barely kicks a ball, they send him back to us, and we're still stuck with him and in the same situation we were in before. It's not like we're loaning a young player looking to get experience.

I can't see any logic to it.

Jayop

Update 5 to our history blog.

http://www.unitedreds.net/xfa-blog-entry/update-5-united-teams-through-the-ages-newton-heath-1897-1898.12/

Lord TSC

No

v3ttel wrote: »

I can't see any logic to it.

I'm coming to think the "logic" was "Look at us, we're doing something, and it's about a player ye all were moaning about too""

IamtheWalrus

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

I'm coming to think the "logic" was "Look at us, we're doing something, and it's about a player ye all were moaning about too""

God help us if that's the way the club is being run.

DM_7

Anderson was moved out on loan because someone was mad enough to sign him.

Thecon21

No

bangkok wrote: »

winning a dutch league is hardly impressive..... sure didn't good owl steve McLaren win one of them as well....

Ridiculous post..

spiralism

No

Thecon21 wrote: »

Ridiculous post..

You would swear its the current SPL or something. The snobbery towards leagues that arent La Liga or the Premiership is a real joke sometimes. Eredivisie has no money but a generally good standard of football, has very passionate fanbases and it's competitive and exciting. Ajax have in recent years won in the San Siro and Old Trafford and beaten City and Barcelona at home. They are no mickey mouse outfit - De Boer has built a machine there out of scrap metal.

bucketybuck

No

bangkok wrote: »

winning a dutch league is hardly impressive..... sure didn't good owl steve McLaren win one of them as well....

For somebody who "claims" to have watched every United match for the last 20 years you seem to have a strange opinion on a man who was instrumental in perhaps the greatest season in Manchester United history.

Lord TSC

No

I'm all for De Boer (or anyone but Moyes tbh).

But honestly, I think they won't give it straight to him because of attitudes like the one bangkok is displaying. A lot of people will not want another "Moyes-level" appointment, and many won't know who he is or respect what level of job he's done at Ajax.

Rather, I think United will try and get a bigger name or at least someone with a tonne of top level trophies to their name. I think that's why Van Gaul/De Boer was suggested; Van Gaul has the resume to appease people Post-Moyes, and would give people time to adjust to the idea of De Boer taking over long term.

J. Marston

No

spiralism wrote: »

You would swear its the current SPL or something. The snobbery towards leagues that arent La Liga or the Premiership is a real joke sometimes. Eredivisie has no money but a generally good standard of football, has very passionate fanbases and it's competitive and exciting. Ajax have in recent years won in the San Siro and Old Trafford and beaten City and Barcelona at home. They are no mickey mouse outfit - De Boer has built a machine there out of scrap metal.

Yes, in recent years they've won at the San Siro and Old Trafford. In recent weeks, they were demolished 6-1 on aggregate by Red Bull Salzburg in the Europa League.

They're nothing special.

Peter Flynt

Jurgen Klopp?. . Would he do?

bucketybuck

No

J. Marston wrote: »

Yes, in recent years they've won at the San Siro and Old Trafford. In recent weeks, they were demolished 6-1 on aggregate by Red Bull Salzburg in the Europa League.

They're nothing special.

In recent weeks Sunderland put us out of the cup and we got spanked by Olympicaos.

Are we anything special?

Lord TSC

No

Peter Flynt wrote: »

Jurgen Klopp?. . Would he do?

TheMilkyPirate

bucketybuck wrote: »

In recent weeks Sunderland put us out of the cup and we got spanked by Olympicaos.

Are we anything special?

No.

djPSB

Peter Flynt wrote: »

Jurgen Klopp?. . Would he do?

Doubt he'd touch the job.

Much better squad at Dortmund.

spiralism

No

J. Marston wrote: »

Yes, in recent years they've won at the San Siro and Old Trafford. In recent weeks, they were demolished 6-1 on aggregate by Red Bull Salzburg in the Europa League.

They're nothing special.

Again, i'd question their effort in that, they've been guilty of not bothering in the Europa League, the only time in memory they actually gave it a go was in Old Trafford two years back. Pretty sure the attendance in the first leg was below half full. The impression would be that it's simply not very important to them and they see the competition as beneath them. You can bet they were far more concerned with Feyenoord away and looking ahead to that than either leg of the match, there's a near Old Firm level of hatred between the two sides.

yabadabado

djPSB wrote: »

Doubt he'd touch the job.

Much better squad at Dortmund.

I don't think he would take it either but he hasn't got a much better squad at Dortmund.

spiralism

No

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

I'm all for De Boer (or anyone but Moyes tbh).

But honestly, I think they won't give it straight to him because of attitudes like the one bangkok is displaying. A lot of people will not want another "Moyes-level" appointment, and many won't know who he is or respect what level of job he's done at Ajax.

Rather, I think United will try and get a bigger name or at least someone with a tonne of top level trophies to their name. I think that's why Van Gaul/De Boer was suggested; Van Gaul has the resume to appease people Post-Moyes, and would give people time to adjust to the idea of De Boer taking over long term.

I can see why it's suggested but the only way i see that happening is if De Boer stays at Ajax until then. No way he makes a downward move when he's bossing the Dutch game with Ajax and he's a club legend there.

Van Gaal would be a good step though but does have his flaws, namely his prickliness, having left Bayern in acrimonious circumstances and his numerous rows with the media (he's at least as bad as SAF was in that department if not worse: he famously resigned as Barca manager with the setup in tatters saying : "Friends of the media, i am leaving. Congratulations.") On the topic of his Barcelona stint, he had numerous difficulties with players and fought like a tinker with Rivaldo. Also, we'd at the most get 3/4 years out of him all going well and his system has been known to take quite some time to assert himself in his job with results taking some time to pick up in most cases (Bayern 2010 aside). It would be a good appointment though but not a great long term solution in my view, he's a more abrasive Hiddink really.

De Boer has a hell of a lot better CV than Moyes ever did, he's a proven winner as both a player and a manager.

J. Marston

No

bucketybuck wrote: »

In recent weeks Sunderland put us out of the cup and we got spanked by Olympicaos.

Are we anything special?

Currently, no.

8-10

spiralism wrote: »

Again, i'd question their effort in that, they've been guilty of not bothering in the Europa League, the only time in memory they actually gave it a go was in Old Trafford two years back. Pretty sure the attendance in the first leg was below half full. The impression would be that it's simply not very important to them and they see the competition as beneath them. You can bet they were far more concerned with Feyenoord away and looking ahead to that than either leg of the match, there's a near Old Firm level of hatred between the two sides.

I'd agree with this

Elro

djPSB wrote: »

Doubt he'd touch the job.

Much better squad at Dortmund.

I don't know, I think United would be tempting for him. I know he said he wanted to stay at Dortmund until 2018 but he's likely to lose a few of his best players again this Summer. When your losing your best players to your main title rivals each summer that's got to get frustrating and disheartening. At least at United he would be able to build a team in the knowledge that he should be able to keep his best players.

spiralism

No

yabadabado wrote: »

I don't think he would take it either but he hasn't got a much better squad at Dortmund.

Not currently, no thanks to Bayern ripping the soul out of the team and an injury crisis to a thin squad. I get the feeling he's there for the long haul though, he loves the club. He stayed at Mainz for several years too, he has a real dedication to his teams. On top of that he is just very German, it's hard to see him leaving Germany at all imo. I think everyone here would love to see Klopp, it's just not realistic imo.

Blatter

No

Not sure what happened with Salzburg but the few times I've seen Ajax over the last few years they've looked very impressive.

They drew at the Etihad and beat City in Amsterdam last season. Beat Barcelona 2-0 this season and looked quite good against United in the EL in 2012. Their football seems fluid and possession based.

I think Liverpool wanted to interview de Boer before appointing Rodgers but he declined.

Rayne Wooney

tbh I'd have what Moyes did at Everton higher up the scale than what de Boer has done at Ajax domestically.


He does bring good football though which would be an improvement over the last 3 years on that front, and seems to have an eye for players. I don't really care who comes in as long as the football drastically improves, because results will surely follow.

spiralism

No

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

tbh I'd have what Moyes did at Everton higher up the scale than what de Boer has done at Ajax domestically.


He does bring good football though which would be an improvement over the last 3 years on that front, and seems to have an eye for players. I don't really care who comes in as long as the football drastically improves, because results will surely follow.

Why? Surely winning trophies very consistently at one of europe's bigger clubs trumps finishing around 6th every year?

The football would be a nice improvement, as would be the case with Van Gaal. Would be a bit alarmed about Van Gaal's record of fighting with players though, i'd expect a falling out with a major player at some point if he took over.

Rayne Wooney

spiralism wrote: »

Why? Surely winning trophies very consistently at one of europe's bigger clubs trumps finishing around 6th every year?

The football would be a nice improvement, as would be the case with Van Gaal. Would be a bit alarmed about Van Gaal's record of fighting with players though, i'd expect a falling out with a major player at some point if he took over.

The standard isn't great, watching the majority of teams is tough. Ajax have won 26% of the titles since the league began, funnily enough beats Bayern Munich who have won 22% in that stat in their league despite a surprising amount of people believing the Bundesliga is generally a 1 horse race most years. I know that's not a very relevant stat but it shows Ajax win more than 1 title in every 4 years. Winning 3 titles isn't an amazing achievement, it's good but if we're comparing I think what happened at Everton is more impressive than Ajax, not by much but I'd still have it ahead.


I'd take any manager that made it not painful to watch United play a game of football

8-10

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

The standard isn't great, watching the majority of teams is tough. Ajax have won 26% of the titles since the league began, funnily enough beats Bayern Munich who have won 22% in that stat in their league despite a surprising amount of people believing the Bundesliga is generally a 1 horse race most years. I know that's not a very relevant stat but it shows Ajax win more than 1 title in every 4 years. Winning 3 titles isn't an amazing achievement, it's good but if we're comparing I think what happened at Everton is more impressive than Ajax, not by much but I'd still have it ahead.


I'd take any manager that made it not painful to watch United play a game of football

What's the % of Premier League titles that United have won since the league began in 1992?

By your logic Moyes coming in and winning a PL title or 2 or 3 wouldn't be an amazing achievement.

Winning 3 titles isn't an amazing achievement? Bullcrap. He came in and got the team back on top after I think 7 years without a title

Rayne Wooney

8-10 wrote: »

What's the % of Premier League titles that United have won since the league began in 1992?

By your logic Moyes coming in and winning a PL title or 2 or 3 wouldn't be an amazing achievement.

Winning 3 titles isn't an amazing achievement? Bullcrap. He came in and got the team back on top after I think 7 years without a title

Yes, in comparison to other things it's not amazing.

Ernesto Valverde has won 3 of the last 4 league titles in Greece is that an amazing achievement?

Liam O

spiralism wrote: »

Why? Surely winning trophies very consistently at one of europe's bigger clubs trumps finishing around 6th every year

Surely an apple would taste the same as an orange?

Moyes would have won trophies at Ajax and De Boer wouldn't at Everton so that's fairly irrelevant.

tallaghtmick

No

Liam O wrote: »

Surely an apple would taste the same as an orange?

Moyes would have won trophies at Ajax and De Boer wouldn't at Everton so that's fairly irrelevant.

Imagine Moyes at Ajax......

spiralism

No

Liam O wrote: »

Surely an apple would taste the same as an orange?

Moyes would have won trophies at Ajax and De Boer wouldn't at Everton so that's fairly irrelevant.

No guarantee he would. I'd hasten to say he wouldn't, they'd won **** all in years when De Boer took over and his tactics don't suit a league frontrunner.

He'd be successful at Feyenoord maybe as they like a more English style of play and titles and attractive football arent demanded there like in Amsterdam. It's clear though that Moyes isn't suited in style of play, tenacity and demeanor to lead the league frotrunners as opposed to scrappy underdog types

Meanwhile id hasten to say De Boer would have won a few cups at everton, the scenarios are similar resource wise and he'd have had less pressure.

irishfeen

8-10 wrote: »

What's the % of Premier League titles that United have won since the league began in 1992?

By your logic Moyes coming in and winning a PL title or 2 or 3 wouldn't be an amazing achievement.

Winning 3 titles isn't an amazing achievement? Bullcrap. He came in and got the team back on top after I think 7 years without a title

13 PL titles since 1992 - so 13/21 .... 61.9% ? I'm after a good few pints but that is an amazing statistic.

Your Airbag

I see ESPN are running a story about how "the Kroos family have discussed a move to Manchester".

I was going to post the link and then I had a quick look at the article and its a rehash and spin of the comments from Felix Kroos.

Nani is about to return to training, I was going to post the bet 365 link but meh.

Kagawa has said he knows he needs to improve to expect a place in the first team, I was going to post a link but meh.

Its not really all that much in the way of news.

The Mirror are running a story that UTD are interested Santiago Arias after being told a deal for Seamus Coleman is a no go.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/manchester-united-transfer-news-santiago-3202241

Did anyone hear Pellegrinis clanger yesterday in his post math interview

Clanger at 1:20

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bwo4kqOE6cc

Fergie was at the Oscars

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEJL_0AiPQQ

The_Kew_Tour

No

Julez

No

Your Airbag wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEJL_0AiPQQ

Nothing to do? Sure we've a job you could do! God I miss him at the helm.

hufpc8w3adnk65

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Who's that?

The_Kew_Tour

No

MrMac84 wrote: »

Who's that?

RVP

Mars Bar

It's Robin

hufpc8w3adnk65

Your Airbag wrote: »

Did anyone hear Pellegrinis clanger yesterday in his post math interview

Clanger at 1:20

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bwo4kqOE6cc

Thats mad!!!!!

hufpc8w3adnk65

Mars Bar wrote: »

It's Robin

Was that the warm up mid week?

Rayne Wooney

Imagine this lad in one of our counter attacking teams of the past

Hypnotising stuff

8-10

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Yes, in comparison to other things it's not amazing.

Ernesto Valverde has won 3 of the last 4 league titles in Greece is that an amazing achievement?

It sure sounds like it though I haven't ever seen a single league game there.

Before lifting the league trophy in 2011 Ajax had gone 7 years without one.

In that time they had and sold a lot of players that would decimate many many teams in Europe, the likes of Wesley Sneijder (coveted by United actually at one stage), van der Vaart who was a great captain, Tommy Vermaelen (went on to Arsenal), Zlatan Ibrahimovic (one of the worlds best strikers), Maxwell (went on to win 3 Serie A, 2 La Liga, Champions League, Ligue 1 title), Luis Suarez (one of the EPL's best strikers), as well as great squad players like Jaap Stam solid at the back, Huntelaar who scored for fun and Steven Pienaar and Johnny Heitinga who your Chosen One Moyes actually bought from them.

Go 7 years without a title, lose players of a class like Ibrahimovic and Suarez, and still build a squad who can comeback to win 3 league titles in a row and beat the likes of United, City and Barcelona in the CL? That's a whole lot better than a decent result and I resent your arrogance of downplaying the achievement. United would be doing well to have a coach like de Boer on their staff. Who knows, people might be looking down on your clubs' Europa League performances before too long.

Edit: United was EL not CL so I'm ok not to count that one sorry

Rayne Wooney

8-10 wrote: »

It sure sounds like it though I haven't ever seen a single league game there.

Before lifting the league trophy in 2011 Ajax had gone 7 years without one.

In that time they had and sold a lot of players that would decimate many many teams in Europe, the likes of Wesley Sneijder (coveted by United actually at one stage), van der Vaart who was a great captain, Tommy Vermaelen (went on to Arsenal), Zlatan Ibrahimovic (one of the worlds best strikers), Maxwell (went on to win 3 Serie A, 2 La Liga, Champions League, Ligue 1 title), Luis Suarez (one of the EPL's best strikers), as well as great squad players like Jaap Stam solid at the back, Huntelaar who scored for fun and Steven Pienaar and Johnny Heitinga who your Chosen One Moyes actually bought from them.

Go 7 years without a title, lose players of a class like Ibrahimovic and Suarez, and still build a squad who can comeback to win 3 league titles in a row and beat the likes of United, City and Barcelona in the CL? That's a whole lot better than a decent result and I resent your arrogance of downplaying the achievement. United would be doing well to have a coach like de Boer on their staff. Who knows, people might be looking down on your clubs' Europa League performances before too long.

Edit: United was EL not CL so I'm ok not to count that one sorry

First of all I said domestically in my post so whatever you're saying about Europe has no relevance

Secondly you're vastly over exaggerating the quality of the Dutch league, for example there are only two or three players on the second place team who would get into the Sunderland squad who currently sit in relegation zone of the premier league. Now that's no full proof litmus test but it's easy to see the difference in quality by even watching a few games and highlights.

Unless you watch every single Eredevesie and Premier league game and can give a full report on the quality, what you are giving is just your opinion which is what I'm doing, so you can leave off with the arrogance stuff.

For me, getting Everton to a point where they are consistently running close to Liverpool and Spurs on 1/7 of their budget each year over 10 years is pretty impressive, and for me more impressive than winning the league 3 times with the best team in the Netherlands with the best youth setup in the Netherlands. It's not hugely more impressive, as I said before it is very good to win 3 titles and De Boer has done a good job, but I think what happened at Everton was even better.

Kirby

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

For me, getting Everton to a point where they are consistently running close to Liverpool and Spurs on 1/7 of their budget each year over 10 years is pretty impressive, and for me more impressive than winning the league 3 times with the best team in the Netherlands with the best youth setup in the Netherlands. It's not hugely more impressive, as I said before it is very good to win 3 titles and De Boer has done a good job, but I think what happened at Everton was even better.

I take your point but what does it say that Martinez has the same team playing better football in such a short amount of time? Sometimes I feel the media hyper-inflated the job that Moyes was doing.

When a manager who got relegated the year before can take over the same group of players, and not only keep their position in the league intact but improve their style of play too......it begs the question how important Moyes was. I'll remind you that many people tipped Everton to be in a relegation battle this season after losing him.

Backstreet Moyes

Kirby wrote: »

I take your point but what does it say that Martinez has the same team playing better football in such a short amount of time? Sometimes I feel the media hyper-inflated the job that Moyes was doing.

When a manager who got relegated the year before can take over the same group of players, and not only keep their position in the league intact but improve their style of play too......it begs the question how important Moyes was. I'll remind you that many people tipped Everton to be in a relegation battle this season after losing him.

Who are these people you will have to remind me.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Kirby wrote: »

I take your point but what does it say that Martinez has the same team playing better football in such a short amount of time? Sometimes I feel the media hyper-inflated the job that Moyes was doing.

When a manager who got relegated the year before can take over the same group of players, and not only keep their position in the league intact but improve their style of play too......it begs the question how important Moyes was. I'll remind you that many people tipped Everton to be in a relegation battle this season after losing him.

Take Lukaku out of the Everton team and where would they be? Everton may play a brand of football that's easier on the eye under Martinez but I think the change isn't as dramatic as people make out. Outside of Barry in midfield its still pretty much the team Moyes left behind and they werent exactly mugs.