Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod Warning: Post #7871

Leftist

No

Liam O wrote: »

The reality is that on the pitch yeah it's disgraceful. But I blame that more on Fergie. He moulded a squad over the last few seasons that just about got by. Last season was the icing on the cake with so many late Van Persie goals saving the team with 1 goal wins. This season the late surge hasn't been there and while Moyes has to shoulder blame for his team selections the players hewas left with are 1 season on and that bit less motivated seemingly. Signing Fellaini and Mata will benefit the team for 5-6 seasons, signing Rooney and Januzaj to contracts will too, Rooney less so for the long term. If Nani has indeed just been injured all this time then if he stays its another positive. The noises are that the players coming in are going to be pretty good so that's further positves. Moyes can't have known from 1 preseason that so many would be this bad. He deserves a chance for the clearout and not to be stuck with the likes of Evra, Valencia and Young. If in late August-September they're still starting then fine, I'll be the first to turn but with all the scouting work being put in and noises out of the club I don't believe that will be the case. So blame me all you want.

there's no way evra, cleverly, valencia and or young are an excuse for the position he has achieved in all competitions this season.

added to that, he chooses to play valencia and young when he doesn't need to. He chooses them because they fit into his joy destroying, awful football structure of a flat, rigid 442 structure.

i expect young and valencia to be at the club next season too.

i think he fancies both as squad options.

he's a disaster. An absolute disaster and he will never succeed at united,

BloodBath

No

Valencia and Young are on too high a wage to be considered squad options. The likes of Kroos is being paid less than them.

They aren't good enough for the first team and their wages are too high for squad players, they should be sold.

IamtheWalrus

BloodBath wrote: »

Valencia and Young are on too high a wage to be considered squad options. The likes of Kroos is being paid less than them.

They aren't good enough for the first team and their wages are too high for squad players, they should be sold.

Neither will be sold.

Macca07

Pro. F wrote: »

Carrick was wildly overrated for many seasons.
Cleverley has been ridiculously scapegoated this season.
Rafael was excellent last season.

Yes, those are all my opinions. I am indeed that guy.

Carrick is a top midfielder for a number of seasons, only thing is that he hasn't had a decent midfield partner since Hargreaves.

Cleverly has been scapegoated since he came out and said he was the scapegoat.

I agreee with Rafael.

Liam O

Leftist wrote: »

there's no way evra, cleverly, valencia and or young are an excuse for the position he has achieved in all competitions this season.

added to that, he chooses to play valencia and young when he doesn't need to. He chooses them because they fit into his joy destroying, awful football structure of a flat, rigid 442 structure.

i expect young and valencia to be at the club next season too.

i think he fancies both as squad options.

he's a disaster. An absolute disaster and he will never succeed at united,

So there's no way 4 regulars in the first team that was left to him are excuses for the performances? I think Cleverley has been a victim of the tactics but the other 3 have no excuses.

Yeah, Moyes loves the 4-4-2, a quick look at his career will tell you that...oh wait. He made a big mistake thinking players who've played in multiple knockout stages of the CL, bar Young, could handle Olympiakos but the move to a different system is definitely on the cards, it's just a bit hard when your full backs are either past it or not full backs. Fabio really should have been kept but all this will be forgotten about if he goes out and signs a top CM and left back replacements. Teams know United's weaknesses and are able to exploit them. No matter whether he plays Carrick and Cleverley in midfield with nobody dropping deep to help or Evra or Buttner at left back with no midfielder (or themselves) covering for when they go forward. There are a lot of things Moyes has done wrong but this is the biggest job in world football and will take time to move on from the old regime. Some people don't think it will happen, others can't handle United not winning and throw hissy fits with little or no reasoning(not saying you're in this by the way). I have respect for one group, none for the other.

Macca07

Red Crow wrote: »

Just because we won the league last season doesn't mean we have a good squad this season.


Goalkeepers
De Gea - Very good keeper
Lindegaard - Good back up
Amos - Don't know enough

Defenders
Rafael - Inconsistent, poor defensively, gone backwards in the last 18 months.
Evra - Good going forward but a liability defensively.
Jones - Good player, versatile
Ferdinand - Finished at the top level
Evans - Up and down couple of years. Seems to have taken a step backwards
Vidic - Poor on the ball, slow pace, finished as a top defender
Smalling - Not a RB, seems to have taken a step backwards in his development
Buttner - Not an adequate replacement at LB, probably not a PL player
Varela, Keane - Don't know enough about either

Midfielders
Cleverley - Not good enough, even as a back up.
Carrick - Mix of injuries and form has him fragile. Taken a huge step back this season.
Fellaini - Not seen enough. Good player for Everton. Needs to be given a chance.
Fletcher - Good player but his best days are gone.
Kagawa - Should be given a consistent run
Januzaj - Promising
Nani - Injured
Valencia - Finished
Young - Decent back up. Not a starter
Mata - Great player
Giggs - Should be retired by now

Forwards
van Persie - Our best player. Not in top form. Doesn't seem to be happy either
Rooney - Good in flashes. I think overall his play hampers the team from the role in which he's currently deployed.
Hernandez - Should get more game time
Welbeck - Needs to become more clinical but a good player

De Gea
RB CB Jones LB
Fellaini CM
Mata Rooney Januzaj
van Persie

That's four first team players needed right away. Then you would probably want another bit of cover at LB added to buying a starter. Two CMs (one starter, one developmental/squad player). Maybe a striker depending on van Persie/Hernandez.

How anyone doesn't see that Evans is our best CB is beyond me! Up and down couple of years, sure. And to have Jones ahead of him is nuts.

Rafael hasn't gone backwards in the last 18 months, he was the 2nd best RB in the league last season, he has been poor this season.

bucketybuck

No

Liam O wrote: »

Yeah, Moyes loves the 4-4-2, a quick look at his career will tell you that...oh wait. He made a big mistake thinking players who've played in multiple knockout stages of the CL, bar Young, could handle Olympiakos

Moyes problem is that he has made this mistake over 28 times now. And at this point nobody has any faith that he won't make it yet again next time out.

bangkok

rooney has been one of the best players in the premier league last 10 years easily and yet people don't think he is world class :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

DARK-KNIGHT

No

I am sad go away david please oh please go away....

Nalz

No

bangkok wrote: »

rooney has been one of the best players in the premier league last 10 years easily and yet people don't think he is world class :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

If he'd have been left in the one position it would be easier for people to lable him world class.

jaykay74

No

BloodBath wrote: »

Valencia and Young are on too high a wage to be considered squad options. The likes of Kroos is being paid less than them.

They aren't good enough for the first team and their wages are too high for squad players, they should be sold.

If they are on too high wages why would anyone buy them and offer similar wages. Or why would they move for less. The only option is a version of paying them off, supplementing their salary elsewhere but sure if we are doing that may as well keep them as squad players, not as first teamers obviously...

bangkok

Trilla wrote: »

If he'd have been left in the one position it would be easier for people to lable him world class.

the fact he can play in more than 1 position just shows how good he is..

Nalz

No

bangkok wrote: »

the fact he can play in more than 1 position just shows how good he is..

I agree but I can't help but think if he'd stayed a no 9 the majority of his career more ppl would be ranting and raving about him

Nailz

No

Macca07 wrote: »

How anyone doesn't see that Evans is our best CB is beyond me! Up and down couple of years, sure. And to have Jones ahead of him is nuts.

Absolutely. Jones is nothing more than a utility style John O'Shea sort of player. I can't see him become prominent in any role, people seem to think if he gets his chance at CB he'll come good there, but in all honesty I don't think he's good enough to play regularly in a United first team in any position; be that CB, CM or RB.

Cantona's Collars

Macca07 wrote: »

Carrick is a top midfielder for a number of seasons, only thing is that he hasn't had a decent midfield partner since Hargreaves.

Cleverly has been scapegoated since he came out and said he was the scapegoat.

I agreee with Rafael.

Carrick was decent last season,he's really not a top midfielder.Way too easy for teams to play their way around him due to his lack of mobility.When the going gets tough he goes missing.A season & a half of decent performances doesn't make a guy into a top midfielder.Everyone forgets that Fergie dropped him out of the squad but brought him back in due to "no value in the market" and his failure to sign a replacement.

Cleverley didn't need to come out & say that,he's been rubbish.His job has been to get the ball from Carrick & move our play along,last time I checked that didn't include standing being marked or passing the ball sideways to the fullback or back to Carrick for him to hit it long.

I like Rafael,yes he can be rash but he provides more attacking threat than our so-called right winger when he gets forward.If he was English he'd be worth £30 million.

Nalz

No

Nailz wrote: »

Absolutely. Jones is nothing more than a utility style John O'Shea sort of player. I can't see him become prominent in any role, people seem to think if he gets his chance at CB he'll come good there, but in all honesty I don't think he's good enough to play regularly in a United first team in any position; be that CB, CM or RB.

Give him a chance he's 22 ffs

Giggsy11

Liam O wrote: »

The reality is that on the pitch yeah it's disgraceful. But I blame that more on Fergie. He moulded a squad over the last few seasons that just about got by. Last season was the icing on the cake with so many late Van Persie goals saving the team with 1 goal wins. This season the late surge hasn't been there and while Moyes has to shoulder blame for his team selections the players hewas left with are 1 season on and that bit less motivated seemingly. Signing Fellaini and Mata will benefit the team for 5-6 seasons, signing Rooney and Januzaj to contracts will too, Rooney less so for the long term. If Nani has indeed just been injured all this time then if he stays its another positive. The noises are that the players coming in are going to be pretty good so that's further positves. Moyes can't have known from 1 preseason that so many would be this bad. He deserves a chance for the clearout and not to be stuck with the likes of Evra, Valencia and Young. If in late August-September they're still starting then fine, I'll be the first to turn but with all the scouting work being put in and noises out of the club I don't believe that will be the case. So blame me all you want.

We can blame players all we want but the tactics used by Moyes are awful. Someone posted Kagawa video, it was spot on.

There are teams with much worse players than ManUtd and they play some very good football. Moyes had a very good squad except CMs and that was his only job, to sign a decent CM or 2.

Not sure how anyone can put any blame on Fergie.

Macca07

Nailz wrote: »

Absolutely. Jones is nothing more than a utility style John O'Shea sort of player. I can't see him become prominent in any role, people seem to think if he gets his chance at CB he'll come good there, but in all honesty I don't think he's good enough to play regularly in a United first team in any position; be that CB, CM or RB.

In a few years, yes, I think Jones will be a quality CB, but 1st choice at the moment he is not. He'll get his chance, but it shouldn't be in CM or RB.

Leftist

No

Liam O wrote: »

So there's no way 4 regulars in the first team that was left to him are excuses for the performances? I think Cleverley has been a victim of the tactics but the other 3 have no excuses.

Yeah, Moyes loves the 4-4-2, a quick look at his career will tell you that...oh wait.

he didn't have to play them did he? They've been atrocious so assuming they can do a job is brainless.

he doesn't have to play 442 and yet he does it.

The team is built around getting it wide and crossing it in.

you're watching the football we've played this season, you can see that.

Cantona's Collars

Read a stat about Young,he gave the ball away 24 times against Olympiakos.That takes some doing.
He's the only winger I know who runs with the ball but never seems to look up.

On the other wing we have a guy who looks up,stops & passes it backwards or tries to break the fullbacks ankles as he smashes the ball against them.

I think a change of formation & play our most creative players rather than constantly rely on 2 of the most innefective players we've got is the way to go.I don't know what they do in training to justify constant selection.

Fuck it,I'd even play Kagawa in midfield,he is creative and it's not as if Cleverley offers anything either attacking or defensively from there.Scholes was a superstar in his position & he had asthma & couldn't tackle to save his life.


....................DDG...............

RAFAEL........JONES.......VIDIC.......EVRA

....................CARRICK....................

.................KAGAWA..................

.........MATA............JANUZAJ..........

..................ROONEY.............

....................RVP........................



Bar Carrick,that gives us a really mobile midfield/attack with all those players able to interchange positions when needed during a game.Kagawa moves forward & Rooney is well versed in dropping back & so on.

bangkok

zerks wrote: »

Read a stat about Young,he gave the ball away 24 times against Olympiakos.That takes some doing.
He's the only winger I know who runs with the ball but never seems to look up.

On the other wing we have a guy who looks up,stops & passes it backwards or tries to break the fullbacks ankles as he smashes the ball against them.

I think a change of formation & play our most creative players rather than constantly rely on 2 of the most innefective players we've got is the way to go.I don't know what they do in training to justify constant selection.

Fuck it,I'd even play Kagawa in midfield,he is creative and it's not as if Cleverley offers anything either attacking or defensively from there.Scholes was a superstar in his position & he had asthma & couldn't tackle to save his life.


....................DDG...............

RAFAEL........JONES.......VIDIC.......EVRA

....................CARRICK....................

.................KAGAWA..................

.........MATA............JANUZAJ..........

..................ROONEY.............

....................RVP........................



Bar Carrick,that gives us a really mobile midfield/attack with all those players able to interchange positions when needed during a game.Kagawa moves forward & Rooney is well versed in dropping back & so on.

lots of space down the wings...... do you mean more of a 4-4-2

Cantona's Collars

Breaking on SSN,Vidic will join Inter in the Summer.Confirmed.

Bannerman7

No

zerks wrote: »

Breaking on SSN,Vidic will join Inter in the Summer.Confirmed.

Seems he cant wait to get away from Moyes

Headshot

No

ffs one of my favourite players going

Very disappointed

Mitch Connor

No

Remember at the start of the season when Moyes was lauding Vidic as the best defender he has worked with. How times change, eh.

Really apprehensive about this summer - I can see it being an absolute disaster transfer wise, and lead to next season being a feck up to.

I just know the World Cup excuse is going to be rolled out quite a bit, by the club and people on here. Going to be so irritating.

Cantona's Collars

Kagawa had an assist & scored a pen against New Zealand last night.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Vidic would have stayed if he was offered a two-year extension, united only offered one. Not exactly running from Moyes, but maybe Moyes should have insisted he be given two. Hope there's a serious replacement lined up in the summer, will get over it if there is. Vidic is older and more injury prone now, football is a cruel game and if there is a top class replacement maybe it was time.

Liam O

Giggsy11 wrote: »

We can blame players all we want but the tactics used by Moyes are awful. Someone posted Kagawa video, it was spot on.

There are teams with much worse players than ManUtd and they play some very good football. Moyes had a very good squad except CMs and that was his only job, to sign a decent CM or 2.

Not sure how anyone can put any blame on Fergie.

Does Moyes tell Young, a 16m signing a couple of years ago to keep his head down with the ball and not pass to open players? Ultimately when Kagawa plays it's clear his vision and movement is incredibly superior to everyone else and he winds up finding space that nobody sees him in, or don't trust him in it because nobody else at the club could control the ball in a similar situation, they go for the safe option.

So it's allowed to blame Fergie for choosing Moyes but not neglecting the team's issues for 3 or 4 seasons?

Will I Amnt

No

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Really apprehensive about this summer - I can see it being an absolute disaster transfer wise,

Really???
That's not like you at all Mitch :pac:

Cantona's Collars

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Really???
That's not like you at all Mitch :pac:

Daily Fail saying that Moyes wants 8 players,if we sign that many, Mitch exploding will be visible from space:pac:

Mitch Connor

No

:pac:

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Really???
That's not like you at all Mitch :pac:

Indeed!

I just think the amount of players we are going to need to sign, in world cup year, while we are splitting time between heading to america and possible EL qualifiers, is going to be too much for the club.

Nothing in our transfer dealings so far indicate to me the club has the ability to negotiate multiple high level deals in a short space of time.

Obviously it would be ideal to get stuff done in May and not have to worry about the WC, but a lot of players (and clubs) will wait to see how the WC possibly increases their value - so we could be waiting til July when the WC ends for the top players - who will then go on holidays, further delaying the transfer process.

On top of the logistical issues, there is the fact we won't have CL to offer - and that will have some level of impact on the players we end up bringing in.

Signing a potentially large number of players in the short period available after the WC will prove, imo, problematic for the start of the season as our pre-season has the potential to be an absolute disaster tactics/conditioning/bonding wise.

Macca07

Mitch Connor wrote: »

:pac:

Indeed!

I just think the amount of players we are going to need to sign, in world cup year, while we are splitting time between heading to america and possible EL qualifiers, is going to be too much for the club.

Nothing in our transfer dealings so far indicate to me the club has the ability to negotiate multiple high level deals in a short space of time.

Obviously it would be ideal to get stuff done in May and not have to worry about the WC, but a lot of players (and clubs) will wait to see how the WC possibly increases their value - so we could be waiting til July when the WC ends for the top players - who will then go on holidays, further delaying the transfer process.

On top of the logistical issues, there is the fact we won't have CL to offer - and that will have some level of impact on the players we end up bringing in.

Signing a potentially large number of players in the short period available after the WC will prove, imo, problematic for the start of the season as our pre-season has the potential to be an absolute disaster tactics/conditioning/bonding wise.

If we sign that many players during the summer, I'd be astonished. You can use Spurs last summer as an example. Players need time to gel with the team.

Also, I'd be hoping that a few transfers would be wrapped up before the summer, or else Moyes and Woodward will be busy boys.

Liam O

Macca07 wrote: »

If we sign that many players during the summer, I'd be astonished. You can use Spurs last summer as an example. Players need time to gel with the team.

Also, I'd be hoping that a few transfers would be wrapped up before the summer, or else Moyes and Woodward will be busy boys.

I'd say a lot of them are very far along, Woodward wouldn't have come out saying that they're looking to buy so many otherwise.

Macca07

So we're scouting Ginter of Freiburg. Good player, was quite good for Germany U21s last summer in the Euros. But wouldn't put him ahead of Jones.

Mitch Connor

No

Macca07 wrote: »

If we sign that many players during the summer, I'd be astonished. You can use Spurs last summer as an example. Players need time to gel with the team.

Also, I'd be hoping that a few transfers would be wrapped up before the summer, or else Moyes and Woodward will be busy boys.

Reality of the situation is we likely need 2 centre backs, at least one left back and at least one central midfielder.

You can then make very easy arguments for a right back, a left back, another CM and possibly a winger and a striker.

8 players being brought in (or the club wanting to bring in 8) is a very realistic scenario.

Evra, Rio, Vidic need to be replaced - Buttner should be and a back up right back needed too. Need at CM is obvious and we need a winger based on the performances of Valencia and Young (who hasn't actually been that bad imo, but just isn't good enough). Nani may do something for us here, but feck knows if he will ever play for us again!

Dont be at yourself

zerks wrote: »

Kagawa had an assist & scored a pen against New Zealand last night.

How many times did he get to the byline though?

bangkok

zerks wrote: »

Kagawa had an assist & scored a pen against New Zealand last night.

I could score a peno against new Zealand in fairness

Cantona's Collars

bangkok wrote: »

I could score a peno against new Zealand in fairness

Didn't know you played international football.

secman

No

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Reality of the situation is we likely need 2 centre backs, at least one left back and at least one central midfielder.

You can then make very easy arguments for a right back, a left back, another CM and possibly a winger and a striker.

8 players being brought in (or the club wanting to bring in 8) is a very realistic scenario.

Evra, Rio, Vidic need to be replaced - Buttner should be and a back up right back needed too. Need at CM is obvious and we need a winger based on the performances of Valencia and Young (who hasn't actually been that bad imo, but just isn't good enough). Nani may do something for us here, but feck knows if he will ever play for us again!

Most definitely need a Right Full, sick and tired of watching centre halves and wingers palying right full when Rafael is either injured or suspended , both of which seem to occur a lot !

Julez

No

zerks wrote: »

Didn't know you played international football.

Plot twist, bangkok is Reus!

Deiseboy01

Liam O wrote: »

The reality is that on the pitch yeah it's disgraceful. But I blame that more on Fergie. He moulded a squad over the last few seasons that just about got by. Last season was the icing on the cake with so many late Van Persie goals saving the team with 1 goal wins. This season the late surge hasn't been there and while Moyes has to shoulder blame for his team selections the players hewas left with are 1 season on and that bit less motivated seemingly. Signing Fellaini and Mata will benefit the team for 5-6 seasons, signing Rooney and Januzaj to contracts will too, Rooney less so for the long term. If Nani has indeed just been injured all this time then if he stays its another positive. The noises are that the players coming in are going to be pretty good so that's further positves. Moyes can't have known from 1 preseason that so many would be this bad. He deserves a chance for the clearout and not to be stuck with the likes of Evra, Valencia and Young. If in late August-September they're still starting then fine, I'll be the first to turn but with all the scouting work being put in and noises out of the club I don't believe that will be the case. So blame me all you want.

Yeah blame Fergie who was a kick of a ball away from winning the last three league titles and a silly sending off from beating Real in the CL all with the same players minus Fellaini and Mata, that makes sense.

Cantona's Collars

Bayern signing another midfielder. http://espnfc.com/news/story/_/id/1675155/eintracht-frankfurt-midfielder-sebastian-rode-join-bayern-munich-summer?cc=5739

Sport also reporting that Barca are interested in Kroos.

Backstreet Moyes

secman wrote: »

Most definitely need a Right Full, sick and tired of watching centre halves and wingers palying right full when Rafael is either injured or suspended , both of which seem to occur a lot !

Would Santon come to United as a rotation player he can play at lb and rb. He wouldn't cost a bomb haven't seen enough to know if he is good enough for first choice lb.

Giggsy11

Liam O wrote: »

Does Moyes tell Young, a 16m signing a couple of years ago to keep his head down with the ball and not pass to open players? Ultimately when Kagawa plays it's clear his vision and movement is incredibly superior to everyone else and he winds up finding space that nobody sees him in, or don't trust him in it because nobody else at the club could control the ball in a similar situation, they go for the safe option.

So it's allowed to blame Fergie for choosing Moyes but not neglecting the team's issues for 3 or 4 seasons?

No but Moyes plays Young and benches Januzaj and Kagawa, so it's Moyes mistake.

So when Hazard scores a goal and wins league or Aguero for City, will the managers gets the credit or the managers who signed them will?

No one is forcing Moyes to play Valencia and Young. He is doing it. He didn't play Kagawa for about 2 months, who is it anybody's but Moyes fault?

We had very good squad and it was Moyes mistake for not signing good CMs. That's almost the only job he had whole summer when it comes to playing squad.

Liam O

Deiseboy01 wrote: »

Yeah blame Fergie who was a kick of a ball away from winning the last three league titles and a silly sending off from beating Real in the CL all with the same players minus Fellaini and Mata, that makes sense.

I blame Fergie for being in the position to lose that title against City. There was a good chance to push on both the Summer before and the Summer after. His tactics cost United the league that season and his ignorance is costing United now. Maybe he wanted to leave money for Moyes but I think Moyes would have preferred more competent players.

Lord TSC

No

So if Fergie's ignorance, according to you, was a reason why the team is in the state it is now, would it not also logically follow that perhaps he mucked up the manager choice as well? That if he couldn't build a team that built on what he already had, maybe his choice of manager was also seriously flawed?

Macca07

zerks wrote: »

Bayern signing another midfielder. http://espnfc.com/news/story/_/id/1675155/eintracht-frankfurt-midfielder-sebastian-rode-join-bayern-munich-summer?cc=5739

Sport also reporting that Barca are interested in Kroos.

Rode is actually a handy player, but can't see him getting anywhere near the Bayern first team, unless Kroos is on his way.

xtal191

No

Your Airbag

Giggsy11 wrote: »

No but Moyes plays Young and benches Januzaj and Kagawa, so it's Moyes mistake.

So when Hazard scores a goal and wins league or Aguero for City, will the managers gets the credit or the managers who signed them will?

No one is forcing Moyes to play Valencia and Young. He is doing it. He didn't play Kagawa for about 2 months, who is it anybody's but Moyes fault?

We had very good squad and it was Moyes mistake for not signing good CMs. That's almost the only job he had whole summer when it comes to playing squad.

This argument always gets thrown up. What is stopping Young from playing as well as Kagawa and Januzaj? 24 misplaces passes or something

The player has to look at himself too. Thats shocking from Young.

Peter Flynt

Macca07 wrote: »

Rode is actually a handy player, but can't see him getting anywhere near the Bayern first team, unless Kroos is on his way.

Another talent who had a great season with Eintracht Frankfurt last season.

He'd have cost United less than 6-7 million euros . . or even nothing if they'd got in before Bayern.

There is plenty of available talent in the Bundesliga that is being snapped up for cheap by Bayern.

Where are United?

Spending 28 million pounds of Fellaini it seems.

Was Mata worth 37 million pounds?