Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod Warning: Post #7871

Rubber_Soul

No

Your Airbag wrote: »

Its nothing to do with instigating arguments and I'm sure Pro F can speak for himself but I agreeing with another posters view on Carrick.

I get tired of listening to one of our best players not getting the praise he clearly deserves and other clear misinformation on the thread and when its called out, proven wrong by someone else their opinion is labelled as bollocks.

What do you think of Carrick?

Oh I know well that Pro.F can speak for himself, it shouldn't even bother me tbh but I'm just noticing it's an almost daily occurrence lately. Anyway it's OT and probably close to backseat modding on my part so take it to pm if you feel the need.

As for Carrick, I think he's a very, very good player with exceptional positioning and reading of the game. However his deficiencies in close control and decision making are highlighted when he's pressed and for that reason he can never be truly classed as top class. I would class Busquets as top class, and imo Carrick isn't at his level.

Blatter

No

bangkok wrote: »

you hardly thought though that vidic was changing in another dressing room did you?

Not particularly but stranger things have happened.

irishfeen

TheDoc wrote: »

That poll a lot closer then I thought.

Wonder is it skewered by non thread regulars messing with the "keep Moyes for more lols" thing

This Vidic stuff annoying me now. Has been somewhat horrendous this season. Wouldn't argue with him being stripped of captaincy now and frozen out.

**** waiting until the end of the season. Big decisions need to happen now. Too much "he was a great servant" and all that rubbish. Utterly unproffesional and has stained his rep a bit with me.

Be fine if he was playing well. He has been pretty poor and this just provides ammunition thstchis head is elsewhwrre

Maybe there are a few United fans here who stay out of the debate as anyone who defends Moyes is usually ridiculed for backing him.

Macca07

zerks wrote: »

Not sure if posted before,rare footage of the last 3 minutes of the '99 ECL Final.
It was taken by a camera behind Bayern's goal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LC_f9CB1Pmg

That gave me the goosebumps!!!

What I'd do to have some of that team back!

Rubber_Soul

No

Blatter wrote: »

Not particularly but stranger things have happened.

Worth mentioning but I've also heard Andy Mitten and one or two others on the UWS podcast mention that there's been issues with Vidic behind the scenes. I'm sure Mitch who subscribes to the site could probably clarify or expand.

bangkok

vidic wont be playing champions league football next year anyway because inter wont be in it

Peter Flynt

Will I Amnt wrote: »

This argument makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. It's not the first time you have used it either, thought you might have had a rethink on it tbh.

Where were Bayern when Messi was being snapped up by Barcelona? or Ronaldo being snapped up by United?

It's the most ridiculous, simplistic line of attack on a scouting system you could come up with :rolleyes:

i go regularly to Germany to watch football.

3-4-5 years ago it was obvious that Reus, Kroos, Gundogan, Muller etc . . were all class players.

They were playing for some of the less big teams in the Bundesliga at the time.

Instead United sign the likes of Nani, Young, that fat one from Brazil. . .

Seriously - United buy shīt using a heck of alot of money to do so.

Lord TSC

No

irishfeen wrote: »

Maybe there are a few United fans here who stay out of the debate as anyone who defends Moyes is usually ridiculed for backing him.

Not true. Plenty of people back him without resorting to name calling ("Real fans back him"), and generally when people can put forth decent reasons for backing him, they are thanked and respected.

The problem comes from the fact the some Pro-Moyes debaters don't actually have much of an argument for keeping him, but rather an argument for why we can't sack him, which usually is full of logical flaws, holes and contradictions.

bangkok

Peter Flynt wrote: »

i go regularly to Germany to watch football.

3-4-5 years ago it was obvious that Reus, Kroos, Gundogan, Muller etc . . were all class players.

They were playing for some of the less big teams in the Bundesliga at the time.

Instead United sign the likes of Nani, Young, that fat one from Brazil. . .

Seriously - United buy shīt using a heck of alot of money to do so.

nani and Anderson were 2 of the hottest young players in Europe when they signed....

bangkok

Peter Flynt wrote: »

i go regularly to Germany to watch football.

3-4-5 years ago it was obvious that Reus, Kroos, Gundogan, Muller etc . . were all class players.

They were playing for some of the less big teams in the Bundesliga at the time.

Instead United sign the likes of Nani, Young, that fat one from Brazil. . .

Seriously - United buy shīt using a heck of alot of money to do so.

and you mustn't followe german football that much either as muller and kroos came up through the Bayern youth system

ericzeking

Vidic has been a great player for us but I can't say I was ever too gone on him, not in terms of as a player, he was very good if a tad over rated in my book, but his demeanour, as obviously it's hard to know what his personality is like. There was just something about him.

I felt that he hampered DDGs development at times, colliding with him, and getting in his way in that blood and guts style of his. Remember that situation Neville pointed out on Sky where Vidic was tearing strips off DDG with his eyes, "he's not looking at him cos he fancies him Ed".... it can't have been good for a 20 yo keepers confidence.

A particular turning point for me was when he was negotiating a contract a couple of years back and came out of it with the captains armband when the previous season it had been Giggs and Rio who captained the side in the absence of Gary Neville, there was something about that that I didn't like, did he just go in a demand captaincy? I know SAF said he wanted someone playing every week but at the time Rio and Giggs were still playing very regularly.

That pic is pretty sickening given out current state of affairs...and he has been cack this year

Your Airbag

StarshipPooper wrote: »

Oh I know well that Pro.F can speak for himself, it shouldn't even bother me tbh but I'm just noticing it's an almost daily occurrence lately. Anyway it's OT and probably close to backseat modding on my part so take it to pm if you feel the need.

As for Carrick, I think he's a very, very good player with exceptional positioning and reading of the game. However his deficiencies in close control and decision making are highlighted when he's pressed and for that reason he can never be truly classed as top class. I would class Busquets as top class, and imo Carrick isn't at his level.

I have no interest in taking the matter to IM especially when you are bothered by a perfectly fine post but other daily occurrences from Pro F, such as snidely calling posts he doesn't agree with bollocks, which another poster brought up recently and claiming his opinions as fact.

Yes its verging on backseat modding as you said. You can mod some of the examples above but PM'ing a mod is probably your best bet if you want to get into the reporting posts game.

Macca07

bangkok wrote: »

and you mustn't followe german football that much either as muller and kroos came up through the Bayern youth system

Kroos signed for Bayern when he was 16, from Hansa Rostock. Saying Kroos came up through the Bayern youth setup is like saying that Pogba came through Uniteds youths or Sterling came through Liverpools.

Peter Flynt

bangkok wrote: »

and you mustn't followe german football that much either as muller and kroos came up through the Bayern youth system

True. Kroos played for Leverkusen though.

Marco Reus came through the Dortmund setup but only made his name at Borussia M.

Will I Amnt

No

Peter Flynt wrote: »

i go regularly to Germany to watch football.

3-4-5 years ago it was obvious that Reus, Kroos, Gundogan, Muller etc . . were all class players.

They were playing for some of the less big teams in the Bundesliga at the time.

Instead United sign the likes of Nani, Young, that fat one from Brazil. . .

Seriously - United buy shīt using a heck of alot of money to do so.

So why are Bayern shelling out big bucks for Götze, Lewandowski, Martinez etc.
Surely they would have known about these players before they were big names and got them for a pittance???

Macca07

Peter Flynt wrote: »

True. Kroos played for Leverkusen though.

Marco Reus came through the Dortmund setup but only made his name at Borussia M.

If you're making a point at least have the facts right.

Kroos was on loan at Leverkusen for a season and a half!

Mikeyt086

No

bangkok wrote: »

and you mustn't followe german football that much either as muller and kroos came up through the Bayern youth system

No need to be a dick, especially as the other guy was correct. Kroos played on loan for Leverkusen.



Reus at Gladbach (and not in CM), Gundogan at Nurnberg.

Peter Flynt

Macca07 wrote: »

If you're making a point at least have the facts right.

Kroos was on loan at Leverkusen for a season and a half!

Did I say he wasn't on loan?

I said he played for Leverkusen. Muppet.

LostBoy101

No

Calm down folks, enough of the insults.

Macca07

Will I Amnt wrote: »

So why are Bayern shelling out big bucks for Götze, Lewandowski, Martinez etc.
Surely they would have known about these players before they were big names and got them for a pittance???

Lewandowski is a free transfer as his contract was up. Gotze was a Dortmund youth, and Martinez was Spanish.

Bandana boy

TheDoc wrote: »

That poll a lot closer then I thought.

Wonder is it skewered by non thread regulars messing with the "keep Moyes for more lols" thing

This Vidic stuff annoying me now. Has been somewhat horrendous this season. Wouldn't argue with him being stripped of captaincy now and frozen out.

**** waiting until the end of the season. Big decisions need to happen now. Too much "he was a great servant" and all that rubbish. Utterly unproffesional and has stained his rep a bit with me.

Be fine if he was playing well. He has been pretty poor and this just provides ammunition thstchis head is elsewhwrre

I think it is indeed Pool fans skewing the poll but are actually voting to Sack Moyes for his Everton history

Peter Flynt

Will I Amnt wrote: »

So why are Bayern shelling out big bucks for Götze, Lewandowski, Martinez etc.
Surely they would have known about these players before they were big names and got them for a pittance???

Well Martinez was bought from Bilbao.

Gotze and Lewandowski have reached the top and are among the best players. At that stage top dollar must be paid.

You should go and look at Bayern's squad. . and look at the players they haven't forked out huge sums of money on - In recent years Dante and Mandzukic come to mind. They brought in the likes of Alaba & Muller.

PS - They're getting Lewi on a free by the way

UnitedIrishman

No

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

It is bad form to have that photographed and a two fingers to us United fans imo. He's not the same player he was a couple of seasons ago, so we'll survive without him. Personally, I couldn't careless if he didn't play again for the rest of the season after seeing that photo.

Could be worse.. could've done what Ince did way back and get a picture taken before he was even signed for us!

Will I Amnt

No

Macca07 wrote: »

Lewandowski is a free transfer as his contract was up. Gotze was a Dortmund youth, and Martinez was Spanish.

Didn't know that about Lewandowski.
Not sure what your point is with the other 2, they still payed big money for them along with Thiago. All well known to be on their way to the top long ago.
Why didn't the brilliant Bayern scouting system catch them back then?

Macca07

Peter Flynt wrote: »

Did I say he wasn't on loan?

I said he played for Leverkusen. Muppet.

I was actually backing up your point but you pissed me off now!

You said

Peter Flynt wrote: »

i go regularly to Germany to watch football.

3-4-5 years ago it was obvious that Reus, Kroos, Gundogan, Muller etc . . were all class players.

They were playing for some of the less big teams in the Bundesliga at the time.

Instead United sign the likes of Nani, Young, that fat one from Brazil. . .

Seriously - United buy shīt using a heck of alot of money to do so.

followed by

Peter Flynt wrote: »

True. Kroos played for Leverkusen though.

Marco Reus came through the Dortmund setup but only made his name at Borussia M.

My point was that 5 years ago, Kroos was on loan at Leverkusen, do you think that United had any hope of signing Kroos then when he was one of Bayerns hottest prospects!!!

Muller was a Bayern youth.

Reus left the Dortmund team to get first team football, and went back to Dortmund, but they paid big money for him.

The point is that a most good young German players don't leave Germany, they sign for Leverkusen, Dortmund and Munich.

And no need for the name calling... it's just childish

Will I Amnt

No

Peter Flynt wrote: »

Well Martinez was bought from Bilbao.

Gotze and Lewandowski have reached the top and are among the best players. At that stage top dollar must be paid.

You should go and look at Bayern's squad. . and look at the players they haven't forked out huge sums of money on - In recent years Dante and Mandzukic come to mind. They brought in the likes of Alaba & Muller.

PS - They're getting Lewi on a free by the way

It's absolutely ridiculous of you to be coming on here saying United's scouting system is terrible for not spotting Reus or Gündogan years ago instead of buying Mata now?
It's a bizarre way of looking at things.

Macca07

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Didn't know that about Lewandowski.
Not sure what your point is with the other 2, they still payed big money for them along with Thiago. All well known to be on their way to the top long ago.
Why didn't the brilliant Bayern scouting system catch them back then?

Maybe because you can't sign every wonderkid available, it's not football manager. You can't take a risk on every player.

Peter Flynt

Macca07 wrote: »

I was actually backing up your point but you pissed me off now!

You said



followed by



My point was that 5 years ago, Kroos was on loan at Leverkusen, do you think that United had any hope of signing Kroos then when he was one of Bayerns hottest prospects!!!

Muller was a Bayern youth.

Reus left the Dortmund team to get first team football, and went back to Dortmund, but they paid big money for him.

The point is that a most good young German players don't leave Germany, they sign for Leverkusen, Dortmund and Munich.

And no need for the name calling... it's just childish

You have Boateng . . who played for Hertha Berlin then Hamburg.

Ozil . . .Played for Werder Bremen.

Schurrle . . . Played for Mainz

Khedeira . . Played for Stuttgart

Podolski . . Played for Koln

Gundogan. . Played for Bochum.

etc.

They do leave Germany - four above have.

Will I Amnt

No

Macca07 wrote: »

Maybe because you can't sign every wonderkid available, it's not football manager. You can't take a risk on every player.

I know that, it's sort of what I'm arguing here.

TheDoc

The last page is all based on the joys of hindsight.

Anderson and Nani were hot prospects when we got them...highly sought around Europe.

Its easy to say now about this or that player. But it wasn't glowingly obvious and never is.

Kroos was struggling at 16 and 17 and his loan move was to try see how he does actually playing first team football. It took him a while but only towards the end of the loan spell did he start to shine.

Lewandowski could have gone either way. Didnt show any obvious qualities at youth level but last few years bring the focul of Dortmund in their rise has raised his stock and his game.

Gotze was early on referenced as the German Messi. His physical build was always in question and he had a habit for niggly injuries. Dont forget he was completely outshined by Kagawa. But Gotze was a gamble for anyone at a young age.

Martinez is showing now IMO why there was reservations about him. Prone to positional brainfarys evident from Bayern's games this year.

Rarely you have s youth prospect who is so obviously good that you have to have him. Pogba was less then impressive in my eyes when he got his chance. Was probably down to being a little moany hole cause he exploded at Juventus.

Ronaldo probably would have been a little one trick showpony...only the training he got at United made him what he was.

Plenty of references for Messi that its folklore at this stage. Physical issues and growth problems meant he probably wouldn't make it. Barca took the risk and paid for growth treatment( that's IMO is backfiring now ) .

MagicIRL

No

TheDoc wrote: »

Barca took the risk and paid for growth treatment( that's IMO is backfiring now ) .

Really curious about this part here! Please explain!

Peter Flynt

Will I Amnt wrote: »

It's absolutely ridiculous of you to be coming on here saying United's scouting system is terrible for not spotting Reus or Gündogan years ago instead of buying Mata now?
It's a bizarre way of looking at things.

Buying Mata?

They bought Mata for 37 million POUNDS from a club/manager that didn't want him. That club made a profit of 14 million as I believe Chelsea signed Mata for 23 million.

Mars Bar

Peter Flynt wrote: »

Did I say he wasn't on loan?

I said he played for Leverkusen. Muppet.

No abuse. Debate civilly or don't bother at all.

LostBoy101 wrote: »

Calm down folks, enough of the insults.

Please report the posts rather than risking yourself a yellow card for backseat modding.

LostBoy101

No

Mars Bar wrote: »

No abuse. Debate civilly or don't bother at all.




Please report the posts rather than risking yourself a yellow card for backseat modding.

Sorry

Will I Amnt

No

Peter Flynt wrote: »

Buying Mata?

They bought Mata for 37 million POUNDS from a club/manager that didn't want him. That club made a profit of 14 million as I believe Chelsea signed Mata for 23 million.

Yeah, that's how buying works. What's the confusion over that term?

Peter Flynt

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Yeah, that's how buying works.

Yea. . .Well United should buy quality and stop pissing 28 million down the drain on the likes of Felliaini

Will I Amnt

No

Peter Flynt wrote: »

Yea. . .Well United should buy quality and stop pissing 28 million down the drain on the likes of Felliaini

Why change the player to suit your argument. We were talking about Mata...

Peter Flynt

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Why change the player to suit your argument. We were talking about Mata...

I don't think he's worth 37 million pounds. You do.

End of discussion.

Timmyctc

No

TheDoc wrote: »

This Vidic stuff annoying me now. Has been somewhat horrendous this season. Wouldn't argue with him being stripped of captaincy now and frozen out.

**** waiting until the end of the season. Big decisions need to happen now. Too much "he was a great servant" and all that rubbish. Utterly unproffesional and has stained his rep a bit with me.

Be fine if he was playing well. He has been pretty poor and this just provides ammunition thstchis head is elsewhwrre

Vidic has not been horrendous by any stretch of the imagination. The last game, against Olympiacos for example, he is the only reason we didn't lose by more. I would go as far as saying he's been among the best performers in our poor defence. Stripping him of the captaincy and freezing him out would be as you put it "utterly unproffesional", childish and stupid to boot too. Im sure he's devastated he's strained his rep with you but he has been and still is a great defender and captain and United need a leader at a time like this.

Will I Amnt

No

Peter Flynt wrote: »

End of discussion.

One can hope...

Mikeyt086

No

MagicIRL wrote: »

Really curious about this part here! Please explain!

Barca moved Messi and family to Barcelona at a young age and paid to give Messi growth injections because even as a kid he was way undersized.

Nalz

No

apols if already posted

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/26442914

Lord TSC

No

Honestly don't get why that particular petition is getting so much coverage; I'm guessing that every day, there's dozens of petitions that don't garner as much attention....

Mikeyt086

No

Trilla wrote: »

apols if already posted

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/26442914

And rightly so.

I'd be embarrassed for anyone who signed that petition. Regardless of how bad Cleverley has been, for a fan to think they have the right to put their name to a petition to tell a football manager who not to pick for a squad is naive, deluded, and for me the culmination of a generation of twitter muppets who think just because every can see their opinion, that it actually matters.

Bannerman7

No

How about this line up for next season (4- 2- 3 -1)
De Gea
Coleman Jones Managal Shaw
Kroos Carvalho
Reus Gundogan Januzaj
Rooney

Schwiiing

Bannerman7 wrote: »

How about this line up for next season (4- 2- 3 -1)
De Gea
Coleman Jones Managal Shaw
Kroos Carvalho
Reus Gundogan Januzaj
Rooney

Dortmund wont sell Reus and Gundogan in 1 summer. Kroos won't go to Utd. Shaw is off to Chelsea, Everton won't sell Utd Coleman shy of 15-20m.

Rayne Wooney

you'd be opening a can of whoop ass on everyone you play if you bought all those players for United on FIFA 14

IamtheWalrus

Will Moyes really be given 200m in the Summer?

The_Kew_Tour

No

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

Will Moyes really be given 200m in the Summer?

Closer to 100 if in charge

Deiseboy01

Liam O wrote: »

I blame Fergie for being in the position to lose that title against City. There was a good chance to push on both the Summer before and the Summer after. His tactics cost United the league that season and his ignorance is costing United now. Maybe he wanted to leave money for Moyes but I think Moyes would have preferred more competent players.

I'd love to have you as my boss. I'd get to fcuk up massively and you'd blame the guy that worked in the job before me. A guy who was once in a lifetime brilliant. Your opinion is so wrong it's almost right!