Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod Warning: Post #7871

adox

No

Your Airbag wrote: »

We have a had a lot of changes in one season and people don't like it. They hammer Moyes as means of coping.

You really think that? Could you be any more condescending?

Your Airbag

adox wrote: »

You really think that? Could you be any more condescending?

Its a minority that is grwoing but yes. If you want to ignore this then go ahead.

The reason we need a rebuild is a combination of many factors over many season not just the last two transfer windows. We got a player in each window but a lot more are needed.

UnitedIrishman

No

Don't think Vidic leaving is a case of 'leaving a sinking ship' as some suggested. His play has deteriorated in the last two years with injuries and he deserves to choose where he finishes his career. You only have to look at the Chelsea game to see how short of pace he has become. It just wouldn't be worthwhile to keep him for another 2-3 year's with a new manager that is trying to rebuild a squad.

As for replacements, wouldn't be surprised to see Davide Astori from Cagliari come in the summer seeing as Moyes has scouted him previously and he's wanted by a lot of the top Italian sides according to reports. There were reports that Moyes expressed an interest last summer in him.

At left back, it will be interesting to see if our interest in Coentrao continues. He looked decent in the game midweek against Atl. Madrid and has a serious engine. Was pretty much alone in defending the left hand side with Ronnie playing higher up the field with Jese on the other side.

One thing that has to change with our squad IMO is this idea of 'getting by' with players. Just look at Madrids squad of 18-19 players. They took off Di Maria the last night and replaced them with Isco. Brought on Illaramendi too who cost over 30m IIRC. Thats with Bale and Khedira both injured and Varane on the bench. Whilst they're still producing young players like Jese and Morata. Same goes for Bayern and same for Chelsea. For much of the last season or more, the United starting XI resembles a mix of world class players and some too average to warrant a starting position particularly in midfield.

Can only hope that come the summer we won't just have a starting 11 but a further 7-8 players who are good enough to make an impact and challenge for places outside that.

bullvine

No

Why is Vidic leaving any different to when Schmeichel left? Hes 32, fancies one final day probably Monaco or Barca maybe, in the sun. Hes an absolute legend, the best ever Center Back to wear the red of United. Good luck to him!

tallaghtmick

No

Cheeky bid for Varane would be nice

IamtheWalrus

tallaghtmick wrote: »

Cheeky bid for Varane would be nice

Alternatively a fair bid.

TheDoc

If I'm honest I' kinda excited for the summer. While I'm anxious voer this season and hoping to get 4th, the summer approaching could see us spend the sort of money we have kinda looked on jealously at our rivals doing the last few years. It will obviously be dictated by the funds available, but I get the feeling from the Mata signing that the Glazers are making funds available.
I read last year that the club was moving into a state of great financial health with the risk that Glazers took about to pay off, and a large amount of funds being made available to the club to spend in transfer markets, and compete with the best. Be interesting to see.

If the Glazers open the chequebook and make a number of high profile, marquee sigings, it will go along way to silencing the still rubmling disent from sections of the support. And will show essentially their trust, backing and faith in Moyes.
For Woodward it will be a massive confidence boost if he can bring great players to the club, and hopefully give him the experience and confidence going forward through the years.
Moyes will have alot of reassurance that the board totally believe in where he wants to go, and perhaps will encourage him to implement the vision he wants, and be more adventurous.
For the fans, we can have one of those summers that our rivals at Chelsea, City and the likes have had for years. Seeing top quality signings come through the door.

If it doesn't come off, well, we are in trouble.

But I'm Mr. Positive. While it's being a dismal season and it could still get worse, it does give some sort of hope at the end of the tunnel, that big things are coming. And I hope they are big.

I don't think the departure of Vidic and inevitable Ferdinand means we need two new CB's. I'm happy with a trio of Evans, Jones and Smalling, but if a top class CB is available I wouldn't say no. Don't think we need two.
A new LB is inevitable at this stage. Shaw or Contrao ideal, personally prefering Contrao
New CM's obviously required, and here is hoping Fellaini settles in the run in. Kroos would be a dream.
Potentially a new striker. Chico no doubt will leave. wellbeck will probably be kept for ticking homegrown player box. Rooney potentially on the way out, maybe staying. The rumours of Cavani are mouth watering.


Be also cool to have a new club captain. I was never overly fond out Evra as Captain, I enjoyed Neville and Keane and Vidic. Captaincy to me, on appearances on the pitch seem to be waining in the modern game. Fiery characters are becoming less and less, and you wonder who the squad could look to drive them on. I mentioned few weeks back that Rooney being handed the captaincy might encourage him to stay. With the type of performances he has put in this season, with his workload and tracking back, I get the feeling he will be made captain.

TheDoc

bullvine wrote: »

the best ever Center Back to wear the red of United.

I can see that is going to spark off a debate, and to be honest actually one I'd welcome for a change of pace from worrying over the troubles.

Be a nice change of pace to reflect back on the absolute stunning CB's we have had at the club.

Stam immediately stands out for me. Blanc had a kinda twilight year with us, but I always wished he came sooner, an outrageously good centre half. I'll always have that soft spot for Bruce and Pallister aswell. When I started following the club in the early 90's they just were so iconic in that defence.

IamtheWalrus

Rooney should have been given the captaincy years ago.

Your Airbag

TheDoc wrote: »

Be a nice change of pace to reflect back on the absolute stunning CB's we have had at the club.

Have to go with Bullvine on this one. He may not have had as long a UTD career as some others but for me Vidic was the best CB UTD ever had. Head and shoulders above the rest. This is a massive loss. He was a leader physically and vocally. Rio and Evans improved by 20% when Vidic was beside them.

How do you measure a man who makes those around him better?

Burlap_Sack

No

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

Rooney should have been given the captaincy years ago.

Two transfer requests say otherwise.

TheDoc

Burlap_Sack wrote: »

Two transfer requests say otherwise.

^

Unfortunately the squad seems deprived of captain material. Then again what constitutes it these days? Very few mouthy mental cases around that would drive their team mates on.

The likes of Vidic, Puyol, the Maldini's of this world, a dieing breed. We will probably pick someone based on years of service or performances, and Rooney is really the only option I guess....

Personally though don't like strikers being captains. Always prefer it being a CM,CB or Goalie.

Sad to see Vidic go, a true leader who gave everything on the pitch, so unselfish in his play. Would constantly put his body on the line for the team.
Though his powers may be fading a little bit I still think our strongest team has him in the line up. Next season may not have been the case though, can see us making huge signings in centre midfield, centre back and left back.

bullvine

No

TheDoc wrote: »

I can see that is going to spark off a debate, and to be honest actually one I'd welcome for a change of pace from worrying over the troubles.

Be a nice change of pace to reflect back on the absolute stunning CB's we have had at the club.

Stam immediately stands out for me. Blanc had a kinda twilight year with us, but I always wished he came sooner, an outrageously good centre half. I'll always have that soft spot for Bruce and Pallister aswell. When I started following the club in the early 90's they just were so iconic in that defence.

Stam was indeed Quality but he was only at the club for 3 years, his third season was a little shaky to be honest, part of the reason they sold him not that Vidic didn't have his shaky moments.

Stam only scored one goal in his United Career as well. We'll miss Vidic's goal scoring as well as his defending, absolute brilliant header of the ball.

Burlap_Sack

No

TheDoc wrote: »

^

Unfortunately the squad seems deprived of captain material. Then again what constitutes it these days? Very few mouthy mental cases around that would drive their team mates on.

The likes of Vidic, Puyol, the Maldini's of this world, a dieing breed. We will probably pick someone based on years of service or performances, and Rooney is really the only option I guess....

Personally though don't like strikers being captains. Always prefer it being a CM,CB or Goalie.

I'd agree with you in the fact there really is no one else apart from maybe carrick or RVP but I still wouldn't like to see him with armband. People follow the leader and he doesn't set the right example off the pitch.

TheDoc

TheDoc wrote: »

^

Unfortunately the squad seems deprived of captain material. Then again what constitutes it these days? Very few mouthy mental cases around that would drive their team mates on.

The likes of Vidic, Puyol, the Maldini's of this world, a dieing breed. We will probably pick someone based on years of service or performances, and Rooney is really the only option I guess....

Personally though don't like strikers being captains. Always prefer it being a CM,CB or Goalie.

If Rooney signs this contract that some places have claimed he has already signed he's nailed on to be the captain. I agree that I prefer it to be Cm or Cb, (not goalie though) but at least Rooney can put the boot in and shout at people.

bullvine

No

Jones is captain material, if he wasnt so fricking clumsy :pac:

bullvine

bullvine wrote: »

Jones is captain material, if he wasnt so fricking clumsy :pac:

He's not clumsy really, just puts his body on the line so much and gets injured. Needs to be played in his proper position too.

Cantona's Collars

Burlap_Sack wrote: »

I'd agree with you in the fact there really is no one else apart from maybe carrick or RVP but I still wouldn't like to see him with armband. People follow the leader and he doesn't set the right example off the pitch.

Not Carrick anyway,he just doesn't stand out as captain material.You'd always see Vidic cajoling and encouraging those around him plus he's not afraid to let rip when needed.Carrick just doesn't do that.

Rooney,despite having the right traits has wanted to leave twice,who's to say he won't do it again if we miss out on CL football.

Evans would imo be a decent captain,he's always vocal on the pitch.

Your Airbag

We are losing the "Murder Ya!" chant

Julez

No

If Fletcher was fully fit I'd have him as captain all day long. Unfortunatly, I don't think he'll ever get back to the level he had previously gotten to.

UnitedIrishman

No

tallaghtmick wrote: »

So whos will be coming in, thats the question.

Hate doing this because feels very Football Managery (and I'd just play football manager if I wanted to so that!) but these are the players I think realistically we could bring in or we're targeting or would like us to bring:
Left back: Coentrao 12m-14m; Shaw 20m-25m. Although Shaw likely to join Chelsea in summer.

Right back: Coleman 18m-22m. Could cover right midfield too against bigger sides.

Center backs: Astori 13m-15m. Otamendi free. Both reported targets. Can't saw I've seen much of either so both fall under the category of player's I think we're monitoring.

Center midfield. Vidal 35m-40m. Fernando free. Also see the return of Nick Powell and try give him some game time.

Wing: Draxler 35m. This is a longshot granted. But Schalke have said he won't join Bayern so that leaves Arsenal as frontrunners. Hijack the deal, sell the club to the player as building as a major force. Also get Zaha back and given game time.

Outside of that others to consider would be Patrick Hermann, Blaise Matuidi and Raul Garcia, the latter two out of contract in summer.

Your Airbag

zerks wrote: »

Not Carrick anyway,he just doesn't stand out as captain material.You'd always see Vidic cajoling and encouraging those around him plus he's not afraid to let rip when needed.Carrick just doesn't do that.

Rooney,despite having the right traits has wanted to leave twice,who's to say he won't do it again if we miss out on CL football.

Evans would imo be a decent captain,he's always vocal on the pitch.

With Rio going its got to be either Rooney, Fletch or Carrick/Evans in that order.

Fletch has the vocal qualities but may not be able to play a lot so its got to be Rooney. Evans & Carrick have been there a long time too so its a tie between them, both reliable.

Julez

No

Your Airbag wrote: »

We are losing the "Murder Ya!" chant

I'd imagine with him being the club hero he is it will still be sang, much like C. Ronaldo chants.

Your Airbag

Julez wrote: »

I'd imagine with him being the club hero he is it will still be sang, much like C. Ronaldo chants.

Or we can reassign it to Adnan

Adnan ohhh, Adnan ohhh,
He comes from Serbia...
Or Belgium, Kosovo or Albania.

or Young

Ashley ohhh, Ashley ohhh
He comes from Stevenage,
He's distinctly average

lordgoat

No

Giggsy11 wrote: »

I was hoping Tyler Blackett gets few appearances as sub but never happened.

Should have been given a chance than signing Buttner IMO.

Blackett for me is a liability. Not good enough on the ball and get's a bit lost which is to be expected for a young player but he tends to do it a bit more. He has been better this season. It will be intersting to see how the loan goes.

TheDoc wrote: »

^


Personally though don't like strikers being captains. Always prefer it being a CM,CB or Goalie.

I agree with this.

Ronny Johnsen was the best CB I've seen at united. 100 appearances(ish) 4 leagues, 1 FA Cup and 1 CL.

Barring injuries he would have been something truly special.

You'll never beat Ron-Johnsen in the 99 season was my favourite chant. He was superb. Always did really well against Juve too. Had one game early in his career where he played CM against them. Cracker of a match 3-2 at home. Johnsen man of the match for me and left a lasting impression.

brinty

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

Hate doing this because feels very Football Managery (and I'd just play football manager if I wanted to so that!) but these are the players I think realistically we could bring in or we're targeting or would like us to bring:
Left back: Coentrao 12m-14m; Shaw 20m-25m. Although Shaw likely to join Chelsea in summer.

Right back: Coleman 18m-22m. Could cover right midfield too against bigger sides.

Center backs: Astori 13m-15m. Otamendi free. Both reported targets. Can't saw I've seen much of either so both fall under the category of player's I think we're monitoring.

Center midfield. Vidal 35m-40m. Fernando free. Also see the return of Nick Powell and try give him some game time.

Wing: Draxler 35m. This is a longshot granted. But Schalke have said he won't join Bayern so that leaves Arsenal as frontrunners. Hijack the deal, sell the club to the player as building as a major force. Also get Zaha back and given game time.

Outside of that others to consider would be Patrick Hermann, Blaise Matuidi and Raul Garcia, the latter two out of contract in summer.

+1 on this..

The most worrying thing now with the players likely to leave (Vida, Rio,Evra and Giggs) is that a lot of the dead wood already in the squad (Andow, Valencia, Nani Young, Buttner etc) have very little sell on value or appeal to other clubs and could now be kept around the squad to have numbers available.

We've talked of war chest 100-200m and given the size of the task ahead we will need that and now might need to capitalise on some of our sellable assets (RVP, Kagawa, Chicarito) to bump up this fund to further improve the squad.

Where Moyes goes from here will be absolutely helter skelter rollercoaster ride. I've consistently said i hope that with the scouting he's done in january and the talk coming from reporters about an exciting summer ahead that we'll see a battery of signings being announced between now and June

Mitch Connor

No

Players I'd be looking at or reckon United are looking at:

LB - Coentrao, Luis Felipe, Alberto Moreno.
CB - Astori, Benatia - beyond that no idea. Zouma gone and Managala probably out of price range.
RB - Coleman if Raf is sold, no idea who if he isn't.

CM - Vidal, Gundogan, Kroos, Carvalho - no idea if we have a chance with any of them, but I'd say they are topping the list of targets.

Winger - Reus, Lallana.

Stiker - Cavani, Costa - don't think we will move for either if RVP is staying.

Your Airbag

Gundogan is done if rumors are to be believed. Apparently he has a incurable back condition that is manageble for the average person but means he is done as a pro footballer. There is even talk of him announcing his retirement from the game this season and if he can continue it would be in a limited role. I don't think any club will risk him.

Coentrao worries me. Lots of Madrid fans think he is poor. Should we not be going for the LB target Madrid are instead of the cast off?

Besides that some great names. A MF pair of Kross and Vidal would have us in dreamland.

Wether Moyes works out longterm or not the window is massive. Its important he gets in quality players for the good of the club going forward.

I am looking forward to the summer. A WC and what looks set to be one of UTD most epic transfer windows in living memory.

paulbok

No

There is a case for pretty much every position needing players coming in (esp the no. 10, we show have at least 12 of them :P) but this is where I see the priorities;

Critical, we are f*%ked if these are not properly addressed.
LB, Evra now a liability , Buttner no good enough even as a squaddie. Coentrao for me £10-15m. Shaw unlikely to sign and way over priced.
CB - With only Evans, Jones & Smalling potentially left, and given our usual injury levels, the numbers are now low in CB so the signing here should be top class, ideally in the mold of Vidic/ Bruce.
CM - Probably the biggest stain on Fergies record is that this position was neglected for a decade. Moyes HAS to bring in a at least one world class midfielder, for me it's break the bank for Vidal.

Essential, Next in line and if we get these sorted, then there is some chance next season;
GK - I can't see Lindergard staying next season and I wouldn't like to be depending on Amos or Johnstone as back up.
CM - We could get by on 1 big signing IF Fellani comes good, Carrick has it in him for another year and Fletcher stays fit. Really need another top midfielder. Powell may need another season on load at a Prem club before coming back.
RB - Need at a minimum, decent competition for Raf, Coleman jumps off the page for this.
LB - back up to the new 1st team player.
Lw - If Nani goes as expected, then a replacement will be needed.

Important; Can wait until the following windows, but may move up in priority depending on who leaves.
ST - IF RVP or Chico leave then a top striker will be needed.
Rw - replacement/ competition for Valencia.

Rubber_Soul

No

I'm surprised to see so many put Vidic ahead of Stam on here, to me Stam was the best we ever had (however brief his time at the club). The pace and positioning of Ferdinand and the physicality and bravery of Vidic all rolled into one. It's such a shame we only got 3 years out of him and the fact we sold him for only £15m at the age of 29 has to go down as one of Fergie's biggest mistakes.

paulbok

No

Your Airbag wrote: »

Gundogan is done if rumors are to be believed. Apparently he has a incurable back condition that is manageble for the average person but means he is done as a pro footballer. There is even talk of him announcing his retirement from the game this season and if he can continue it would be in a limited role. I don't think any club will risk him.

.

Arsenal?

Corvo

Your Airbag

paulbok wrote: »

Arsenal?

Not sure what you mean. Were they in for him?

UnitedIrishman

No

Your Airbag wrote: »

Coentrao worries me. Lots of Madrid fans think he is poor. Should we not be going for the LB target Madrid are instead of the cast off?

Who they want to bring in at LB seems to chane on a day to day basis. Most likely the left back that's on loan at Benfica from Granada. Coentrao has looked solid enough to me defensively anytime I've seen him and gets into good attacking positions. Real Madrid fans would also probably have Pepe and Ramos ahead of Varane which is nuts.

lordgoat

No

Your Airbag wrote: »

Not sure what you mean. Were they in for him?

Whooossshhh

KK.

Backstreet Moyes

Sacramento wrote: »

He's not clumsy really, just puts his body on the line so much and gets injured. Needs to be played in his proper position too.

He looks clumsy because his positioning is not great so he ends up having to dive into last ditch tackles. He could learn a lot from Ferdinand best cb i ever seen for reading the game and making it look easy. He has all the tools and will improve his positioning from regular games at cb which i hope he starts getting.

Red Crow

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Players I'd be looking at or reckon United are looking at:

LB - Coentrao, Luis Felipe, Alberto Moreno.
CB - Astori, Benatia - beyond that no idea. Zouma gone and Managala probably out of price range.
RB - Coleman if Raf is sold, no idea who if he isn't.

CM - Vidal, Gundogan, Kroos, Carvalho - no idea if we have a chance with any of them, but I'd say they are topping the list of targets.

Winger - Reus, Lallana.

Stiker - Cavani, Costa - don't think we will move for either if RVP is staying.

Gundogan is unlikely as he has a major back issue with his nerves. Kroos is looking for a new deal. He has said this publicly many times in the last few weeks. His current deal runs out in 2015 but he's obviously looking for a pay increase too. Vidal is virtually impossible the club have absolutely no intention of selling him and Vidal seems to be one of these guys that really likes where he is. He's said that he will not leave Juventus. PSG are rumoured to be interested in Pogba but you have to wonder what the Cabaye deal does to that. Matuidi is out on contract and he still hasn't signed although L'Equipe have said that Manchester City made an offer in January and will come back in the Summer. Although Le Parisien reported that the deal is done but it isn't being signed until Matuidi settles with his former agent Jean-Pierre Bernes.

I'd love to see Mangala, Alberto Moreno and Marchisio.

paulbok

No

Your Airbag wrote: »

Not sure what you mean. Were they in for him?

Ah c'mon Airbag.

MisterAnarchy

No

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Based on how difficult United have found doing deals in the last two windows, I have little confidence that we will be able to negotiate for 4 or 5 top players and a few squad players in the summer with great success.

+1

I have to laugh at the delusion of posters on here who only last May claimed that the squad was probably the strongest squad we've ever had with a weaker first 11 than we had from 07-09.

Fergie had years to find a quality central midfielder and failed ,you could argue he hasnt signed a quality central midfielder since Keane .

I cant see Moyes being able to do better seeing as he has to buy this summer and every other club knows this and its a World Cup year ,the club will be held to ransom for anyone even half decent.

I dont like to say it but the way things are going Utd could end up like Liverpool in 1990 -91

Backstreet Moyes

Seems were in fantasy land.

GK DDG, Lindergaard, Amos

RB Rafael, Santon

LB Contrao, Santon,

CB Jones, Evans, Smalling, Astori or Managala

CM Fellaini, Carrick, Fletcher, Fernando, Vidal, Cleverley

Wingers Nani, Valencia, Mata, Janjuaz, Draxler, Lallana

AM Rooney, Mata, Kagawa, Janjuaz

Strikers RVP, Hernandez, Wellbeck


Outgoing players.

Ferdinand
Evra
Giggs
Buttner
Vidic
Anderson
Young
Maybe Kagawa

bullvine

No

I will be shocked if Young leaves.

TheDoc

Serious lack of Kroos in the last page of fantasy teams.

You disgust me...

Delboy5

Red Crow wrote: »

Vidal is virtually impossible the club have absolutely no intention of selling him and Vidal seems to be one of these guys that really likes where he is. He's said that he will not leave Juventus.

Offer enough cash to club and player and it may not be as impossible as you think.....

Lord TSC

No

Honestly, put Vidal in the same bracket as Ronaldo or Messi right now; just don't see him moving, and if he does, it will be for absolutely crazy money with richer clubs (with less priorities) outbidding us...

bullvine

No

Arsenal buying Ozil changed things for United, I think they know they have to start buying big to compete, its all well and good buying these players but whether Moyes can integrate and handle them is another thing..

UnitedIrishman

No

TheDoc wrote: »

Serious lack of Kroos in the last page of fantasy teams.

You disgust me...

Reason I left him out was because I think he's just looking for a bigger contract. Only chance we have is if the two parties remain so far apart that the player begins to see his future elsewhere. There was talk of him wanting Schweinsteiger/Lahm type of money but isn't a regular first teamer as such - but they see him as being such very soon.

Agueroooo

bullvine wrote: »

Arsenal buying Ozil changed things for United, I think they know they have to start buying big to compete, its all well and good buying these players but whether Moyes can integrate and handle them is another thing..

some say Arsenes big spending and moving away from the 'buy young and cheap and develop' model was because the stadium is now built, and cash reserves are big enough to splash out a bit.

I have my doubts.

Yes the cash reserve is one of the reasons, but he realises that to truly compete in this unique league then you're gonna have to spend big.

Liverpool simply cant compete at that level whilst still trying to get the stadium in order (ala Arsenal 8yrs ago), but if the rumours are to be believed, and Utd/Moyes truly want to be top of the pile then expect some serious outlay this summer.

Mitch Connor

No

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Honestly, put Vidal in the same bracket as Ronaldo or Messi right now; just don't see him moving, and if he does, it will be for absolutely crazy money with richer clubs (with less priorities) outbidding us...

Disagree with you.

Vidal is very gettable imo.

I think Juve are willing to do business at a big fee, and Vidal could be easily enough swayed with an offer to triple his wages (on 50k pw at the moment).

Other clubs probably will come in for him - and we may lose out on him, but he isn't in the ungettable bracket you would put Ronaldo and Messi in.

I reckon it is very likely that Vidal leaves Juve in the summer. I hope it is to us.

TheDoc

Agueroooo wrote: »

some say Arsenes big spending and moving away from the 'buy young and cheap and develop' model was because the stadium is now built, and cash reserves are big enough to splash out a bit.

I have my doubts.

Yes the cash reserve is one of the reasons, but he realises that to truly compete in this unique league then you're gonna have to spend big.

Liverpool simply cant compete at that level whilst still trying to get the stadium in order (ala Arsenal 8yrs ago), but if the rumours are to be believed, and Utd/Moyes truly want to be top of the pile then expect some serious outlay this summer.

The risk the Glazers took as well has completely paid off, with the clubs debt drastically reducing. Funds can be released now into the transfer budget to wrestle with the big boys, and in some cases blow them out of the water.

I'd expect a serious spend this summer coming (cant come soon enough)