Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod Warning: Post #7871

keane2097

No

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Not much, but that was down to what Moyes told him. Why you ask dude?

I don't think he's anywhere near as good as most people seem to, thought he was a big downgrade on Ashley Young.

Mikeyt086

No

It just baffles me that I keep thinking it can't get worse.

The fact is that any team on any day at any ground can do us. To have such a bad lapse in concentration so late in the game is unforgivable, and yet, we have done it time and time and time again. Think how our season would look if we didn't concede late to Southampton, Cardiff, Everton, and Fulham. Instead the squad have to face the fact they are absolutely bottling it, repeatedly. So many have to look at themselves in the mirror and ask themselves if they really are good enough for United, Moyes included. But no, instead "We'll look to the next game, we were unlucky." **** that. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So thats the word I use to describe this season. Insane.

tallaghtmick

No

Gamb!t wrote: »

Ferguson said something last year along the lines of I would like to remind you, this club stood by me in bad times, the players and the staff .

" Your job now is to stand by the new manager."

While your post makes sense I dont think Moyes is going anywhere soon.

One would assume Fergie wasnt thinking 7th and awful tactics.

FutureGuy

I understand the need for a solid replacement to be lined up before Moyes is sacked.

We do.

He's in the stands. Alex something something.

Fanny Brioscaí

Gamb!t wrote: »

Ferguson said something last year along the lines of I would like to remind you, this club stood by me in bad times, the players and the staff .

" Your job now is to stand by the new manager."

While your post makes sense I dont think Moyes is going anywhere soon.

The difference with Ferguson appointment at the time was he was already very successful at Aberdeen winning and in Europe, he had winning mentality needed to succeed. Moyes has never won a trophy and always struggled to beat the top teams in the Premier League.

Chazz Michael Michaels

FutureGuy wrote: »

I understand the need for a solid replacement to be lined up before Moyes is sacked.

We do.

He's in the stands. Alex something something.

Oxlade Chamberlain?

shamrock55

zerks wrote: »

That needs framing

Rubber_Soul

No

Keno wrote: »

How much would Moyes' compensation be if let go? Couldn't he refuse it and take the pay for the next 5+ years?

From what I've read there's a max compensation clause in his contact. You can bet it's nowhere near the full value of his contact.

tallaghtmick

No

FutureGuy wrote: »

I understand the need for a solid replacement to be lined up before Moyes is sacked.

We do.

He's in the stands. Alex something something.

Cant see it myself, is Queroz a international manager? Could do a few months with us.

PhlegmyMoses

keane2097 wrote: »

I don't think he's anywhere near as good as most people seem to, thought he was a big downgrade on Ashley Young.

His cross completion percentage was miles better than Young's. We can argue that he had more attacking team mates and the opposition were tired, but he wasn't a downgrade in that sense.

Gamb!t

No

tallaghtmick wrote: »

One would assume Fergie wasnt thinking 7th and awful tactics.

Moyes has been playing "tactics" like that since his Everton days,always defensive and negative.

Lord TSC

No

Bringing back Fergie is suicidal.

The benefit of any manager coming in after Moyes is he doesn't have to follow Fergie. If Fergie came back, it leaves us back to square one in the summer.

Fergie is gone. The aim should be finding his long term successor. We failed in our first try. Time to try again.

bryangiggsy

No

On a poitive note loved Wazza's celebration at Carricks goal... United through and through !

Whatsisname

No

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Bringing back Fergie is suicidal.

The benefit of any manager coming in after Moyes is he doesn't have to follow Fergie. If Fergie came back, it leaves us back to square one in the summer.

Fergie is gone. The aim should be finding his long term successor. We failed in our first try. Time to try again.

Exactly what I was about to say. Have no idea who could come in now and change things but I'd sure as hell love to see Klopp in the summer.

Headshot

No

zerks wrote: »

Is that Simple Red?

Blatter

No

Gamb!t wrote: »

Ferguson said something last year along the lines of I would like to remind you, this club stood by me in bad times, the players and the staff .

" Your job now is to stand by the new manager."

While your post makes sense I dont think Moyes is going anywhere soon.

He did, )ut as somebody else pointed out here a while a go, when Ferguson said that, I'm fairly sure he didn't envisage the current predicament unfolding. He would have meant maybe finishing 3rd of 4th, or even missing out on top 4 by a small margin.

But to take the reigning champions and have them 9 points outside the top 4 in early February, with no improvement in sight - it's much more than a 'bad time'. It's a straightforward sackable offense.

Red Crow

bryangiggsy wrote: »

On a poitive note loved Wazza's celebration at Carricks goal... United through and through !

Is that before or after he asks to leave the club for a third time? United through and through my ar$e

DARK-KNIGHT

No

Its stupid saying anything else other than moyes can go and head off into the sunset... nothing worse than being mocked in other thread.

n32

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

His cross completion percentage was miles better than Young's. We can argue that he had more attacking team mates and the opposition were tired, but he wasn't a downgrade in that sense.

He put in a few bad crosses but he has way more of a threat than Young or Valencia. Young and Valencia have one trick; get to the byline and cross it (badly!) . At least Januzaj can beat a player and create something with a bit of guile. We definitely offered more of a threat with him

Ulysses Gaze

What about bringing in Marcello Lippi? He's turned the Spurs job down, has a winning mentality and a vast array of experience. He's also an admirer of Utd.

Only problem I can see would be the language barrier.

Cantona's Collars

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Bringing back Fergie is suicidal.

The benefit of any manager coming in after Moyes is he doesn't have to follow Fergie. If Fergie came back, it leaves us back to square one in the summer.

Fergie is gone. The aim should be finding his long term successor. We failed in our first try. Time to try again.

+1

4th place is gone,the best we can hope for now is 5th.Not even Fergie could change that scenario.

MD1990

No

bryangiggsy wrote: »

On a poitive note loved Wazza's celebration at Carricks goal... United through and through !

lol when he is going to get 300k a week he is
he put in two transfer requests
very naive post

Rubber_Soul

No

FutureGuy wrote: »

I understand the need for a solid replacement to be lined up before Moyes is sacked.

We do.

He's in the stands. Alex something something.

I really don't think Fergie coming back in is the answer as I don't think it would have as much of a positive effect as people seem to think. He's not going to be there next season so will in effect be an interim manager and we all saw what happened when the players thought he was leaving years ago. There's also the fact that he would have to appoint a coaching team and tbh he's not going to get anyone decent on an interim basis. Imo the next manager in has to be a permanent appointee.

collie0708

Can anyone else see moyes gone after arsenal beat us fergie back as interim manager until we get to the end of the season and sign someone else???

Pro. F

No

keane2097 wrote: »

I don't think he's anywhere near as good as most people seem to, thought he was a big downgrade on Ashley Young.

Wowser, I wouldn't agree with the Young part at all. I could understand a claim that he didn't improve on Young, but that would be pushing it imo.

Thatsfootball

Not particularly defending Moyes here but a few issues for the last goal.]

Vidic: should have made a clearing header, instead of a pass

Carrick: possibly should have done more to get the ball, least to blame out of all these

Valencia: caught out positionally for it, way too far forward

Evra: too slow getting back, could possibly have prevented the goal had he kept line with Vidic and Smalling

De Gea: not sure tbh, thought it was a decent save, some say he should have done better


As bad as tactics might have been, the last goal could well have been prevented. The subs worked when chasing the goal, and only for the mistakes mentioned we'd have won the game

Chazz Michael Michaels

Headshot wrote: »

Is that Simple Red?

Bilbo Baggins

Gamb!t

No

Quaint wrote: »

The difference with Ferguson appointment at the time was he was already very successful at Aberdeen winning and in Europe, he had winning mentality needed to succeed. Moyes has never won a trophy and always struggled to beat the top teams in the Premier League.

Ferguson knew all that with respect to Moyes before appointing him,he is basically saying stand by the manager.
For the record Im not a fan of Moyes's brand of football and never wanted him appointed in the first place just that Ferguson quote always stuck in my mind as if he knew its going to be a bumpy ride and to buckle up.

billyhead

shamrock55 wrote: »

That needs framing

Quality

DARK-KNIGHT

No

Imo moyes cant fix what has gone wrong... there is a huge amount of money neede pumped into the club and i dont trust moyes to pump that kinda cash around...

FutureGuy

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Bringing back Fergie is suicidal.

The benefit of any manager coming in after Moyes is he doesn't have to follow Fergie. If Fergie came back, it leaves us back to square one in the summer.

Fergie is gone. The aim should be finding his long term successor. We failed in our first try. Time to try again.

While I understand it's far from ideal, we have to steady the ship and play football that the players are capable of playing. While he is in charge as interim, find an experienced manager who can take the club forward.

I do not trust Moyes with the club. Fulham could and should have been out to the sword. Wait till Liverpool get their hands on Fulham. 5 goals without a sweat.

Chazz Michael Michaels

Thatsfootball wrote: »

Not particularly defending Moyes here but a few issues for the last goal.]

Vidic: should have made a clearing header, instead of a pass

Carrick: possibly should have done more to get the ball, least to blame out of all these

Valencia: caught out positionally for it, way too far forward

Evra: too slow getting back, could possibly have prevented the goal had he kept line with Vidic and Smalling

De Gea: not sure tbh, thought it was a decent save, some say he should have done better


As bad as tactics might have been, the last goal could well have been prevented. The subs worked when chasing the goal, and only for the mistakes mentioned we'd have won the game

But, the performance...

KombuchaMshroom

No

portcrap wrote: »

The same reasons that fergie felt he was the right choice stands:

he is a steady stabilising factor for club, really important fopr a club in transition like we are

he can get the best of mediocre players

he believes in youth and can blend them into the team

he can drive players to work hard, track back etc.

All of these aspects are still true regardless of the results. If we finish 7th at the end of the season (which we wont) it doesn't change the fact that the club are in transition. Change has to be managed very carefully, knee jerk reactions lead to barren runs of not winning anything. I, like I suspect most fans do, want to see a manager at the helm for at least 8-10 years and not go through the sh1te that liverpool have had for the last 20 odd years.

This for me is the root of the problem at the minute.
I think the only thing Moyes had in common with Fergie when he was selected to take over was that he had stayed at one club for such a long time, and too much emphasis is being place on this one factor alone.

Yes you are right that everyone would be much happier to have a manager that stays with the club for 10+ years, but not simply just for the sake of it, the manager has to warrant his position.
If we had Steve Mclaren or Mark Hughes managing us and we were doing even worse would you still be saying that we should keep them on rather than look silly for getting rid of the man?

Your first sentence you say he is a stablising factor for the club? That couldn't be further from the truth, he has brought no stability to the club whatsoever so far.

And you call it a knee jerk reaction for people seriously starting to consider he is the wrong man for the job? It would have been a knee jerk reaction back in October after poor results to West Brom and Southampton at home, but since then there have been Everton Newcastle Swansea Tottenham all winning at Old Trafford, as well as Stoke Sunderland and now Fulham getting results against us that they really shouldn't.

You also state matter of factly that we won't finish 7th. Again that would be a fair statement to make back in November if only 13 matches were played, but we only have 13 matches left and nothing suggests we are going to improve.


United haven't been in the business of manager hunting in 26 years so it is quite possible they made a mistake at their first attempt at it.
Quite simply, he has taken a team that won the league at a canter last season to already being written off for TOP FOUR by early February. People clearly have very valid reasons for questioning if he is the right man for the job or not.
Ultimately I think he will get 10 games into next season at a minimum, and ideally i would love to see him turning things around by then, but if he hasn't then he would have to go.

TL;DR: We shouldn't accept mediocrity, and sacrifice the quality of our manager just for this notion that we have to have consistency and faith in the first manager that we choose just for the sake of consistency itself.

Pro. F

No

Thatsfootball wrote: »

Not particularly defending Moyes here but a few issues for the last goal.]

Vidic: should have made a clearing header, instead of a pass

Carrick: possibly should have done more to get the ball, least to blame out of all these

Valencia: caught out positionally for it, way too far forward

Evra: too slow getting back, could possibly have prevented the goal had he kept line with Vidic and Smalling

De Gea: not sure tbh, thought it was a decent save, some say he should have done better


As bad as tactics might have been, the last goal could well have been prevented. The subs worked when chasing the goal, and only for the mistakes mentioned we'd have won the game

Moyes has kept Evra at the club and kept playing him despite how poor he has been. Moyes also brought on Valencia for Rafael. So Moyes had a huge hand to play in those mistakes happening.

Saucy McKetchup

No

Headshot wrote: »

Is that Simple Red?

Dicky Pride

No

Also, Vidic says he's going to leave the club in the summer. That should have immediately been the end of him as captain of the club. Yet another sign that Moyes hasn't got a grip of things.

MagicMarker

Dicky Pride wrote: »

Also, Vidic says he's going to leave the club in the summer. That should have immediately been the end of him as captain of the club. Yet another sign that Moyes hasn't got a grip of things.

Don't talk such bollocks.

Dicky Pride

No

MagicMarker wrote: »

Don't talk such bollocks.

I get the feeling you don't agree?

Saucy McKetchup

No

Dicky Pride wrote: »

Also, Vidic says he's going to leave the club in the summer. That should have immediately been the end of him as captain of the club. Yet another sign that Moyes hasn't got a grip of things.

You sir are clueless

Demosthenese

No

KombuchaMshroom wrote: »

This for me is the root of the problem at the minute.
I think the only thing Moyes had in common with Fergie when he was selected to take over was that he had stayed at one club for such a long time, and too much emphasis is being place on this one factor alone.

Ultimately I think he will get 10 games into next season at a minimum, and ideally i would love to see him turning things around by then, but if he hasn't then he would have to go.

The biggest mistake was allowing the last manager to choose his successor. Brilliant as he was what exactly made him the logical decider of the next manager? Just cos they are both Scottish and both had similar traits ... never ment he was going to be a success.

10 games into next season suggests he will be allowed spend money in the summer??? would you allow that?

Crimson King

No

Dicky Pride wrote: »

Also, Vidic says he's going to leave the club in the summer. That should have immediately been the end of him as captain of the club. Yet another sign that Moyes hasn't got a grip of things.

Said it in the match thread but I thought vidic was at least partially responsible for both goals.

Be interesting to see what will be done in the summer defender wise

PhlegmyMoses

Demosthenese wrote: »

The biggest mistake was allowing the last manager to choose his successor. Brilliant as he was what exactly made him the logical decider of the next manager? Just cos they are both Scottish and both had similar traits ... never ment he was going to be a success.

10 games into next season suggests he will be allowed spend money in the summer??? would you allow that?

Who else should have chosen the next manager? The Glazers know nothing about the sport.

They could get in advisors, but who could be a better advisor than the greatest manager the club has known?

Maximus Alexander

Watching United is having a seriously unpleasant effect on my mood this year.

bryangiggsy

No

MD1990 wrote: »

lol when he is going to get 300k a week he is
he put in two transfer requests
very naive post

Flawed genius ! When on the pitch he shows more heart than the majority of the team combined.

Will I Amnt

No

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Bringing back Fergie is suicidal.

The benefit of any manager coming in after Moyes is he doesn't have to follow Fergie. If Fergie came back, it leaves us back to square one in the summer.

Fergie is gone. The aim should be finding his long term successor. We failed in our first try. Time to try again.

Definitely. It's not even an option and it would more than likely mean losing Rooney.

Dicky Pride

No

Saucy McKetchup wrote: »

You sir are clueless

haha i see you've resurfaced so. The man who thinks that Moyes is the man to lead us back to glory. The man who steals my witty Rocky Dennis jokes.

Listen, Vidic says that he wants to leave the club in the summer. That to me is a perfect opportunity to make Rooney the captain, show him that we mean business. If that makes me clueless, well...you have a strange barometer for soccer knowledge in this forum.

portcrap

KombuchaMshroom wrote: »

This for me is the root of the problem at the minute.
I think the only thing Moyes had in common with Fergie when he was selected to take over was that he had stayed at one club for such a long time, and too much emphasis is being place on this one factor alone.

Yes you are right that everyone would be much happier to have a manager that stays with the club for 10+ years, but not simply just for the sake of it, the manager has to warrant his position.
If we had Steve Mclaren or Mark Hughes managing us and we were doing even worse would you still be saying that we should keep them on rather than look silly for getting rid of the man?

Your first sentence you say he is a stablising factor for the club? That couldn't be further from the truth, he has brought no stability to the club whatsoever so far.

And you call it a knee jerk reaction for people seriously starting to consider he is the wrong man for the job? It would have been a knee jerk reaction back in October after poor results to West Brom and Southampton at home, but since then there have been Everton Newcastle Swansea Tottenham all winning at Old Trafford, as well as Stoke Sunderland and now Fulham getting results against us that they really shouldn't.

You also state matter of factly that we won't finish 7th. Again that would be a fair statement to make back in November if only 13 matches were played, but we only have 13 matches left and nothing suggests we are going to improve.


United haven't been in the business of manager hunting in 26 years so it is quite possible they made a mistake at their first attempt at it.
Quite simply, he has taken a team that won the league at a canter last season to already being written off for TOP FOUR by early February. People clearly have very valid reasons for questioning if he is the right man for the job or not.
Ultimately I think he will get 10 games into next season at a minimum, and ideally i would love to see him turning things around by then, but if he hasn't then he would have to go.

TL;DR: We shouldn't accept mediocrity, and sacrifice the quality of our manager just for this notion that we have to have consistency and faith in the first manager that we choose just for the sake of consistency itself.

I say he is a stabilising influence of the club because of what could have been, not what has happened. Stability goes beyond the performances on the field, far more important is the culture of the club. For example, players don't mouth off to the media, the family club atmosphere, the separation of owners and management, the youth academy, media relations etc.

Stability also includes players. Lets face it, Rooney wanted to leave and him staying has been good for the club. Januzaj signed a five year contract. De gea is about to agree a five year contract. No players left or will leave that Moyes thinks is up to the standard.

I 100% agree with your last point. But nor should we sacrifice a manager after half a season that has the potential to do well. I accept that whether he does or not remains to be seen, but he should be at least afforded the opportunity.

weldoninhio

bryangiggsy wrote: »

On a poitive note loved Wazza's celebration at Carricks goal... United through and through !

Rooney is a mercenary, i'm sure that the above wuld have been quoted on an everton site a few years ago after his "once a blue, always a blue" celebration.

CSF

No

portcrap wrote: »

[/B]

I say he is a stabilising influence of the club because of what could have been, not what has happened. Stability goes beyond the performances on the field, far more important is the culture of the club. For example, players don't mouth off to the media, the family club atmosphere, the separation of owners and management, the youth academy, media relations etc.

Stability also includes players. Lets face it, Rooney wanted to leave and him staying has been good for the club. Januzaj signed a five year contract. De gea is about to agree a five year contract. No players left or will leave that Moyes thinks is up to the standard.

I 100% agree with your last point. But nor should we sacrifice a manager after half a season that has the potential to do well. I accept that whether he does or not remains to be seen, but he should be at least afforded the opportunity.

It's not after half a season. 25 games gone and Champions League qualification already looks impossible. That should be it. Anything else would be bizarre.

Mars Bar

Hernandez being cryptic on instagram. "The time to speak about many things will come…"