Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod Warning: Post #7871

Giggsy11

Dicky Pride wrote: »

Doubt it. A six year contract for an unproven manager. It's frightening really. I would give anything to have access to behind the scenes at the club now.

I'm sure there would be some clause, no one in their right mind will offer a 6 year contract with out some exit clause or fixed compensation. Something like Newcastle offered Pardew according to rumors.

Tom.D.BJJ

No

Horribly, we've dropped points against the leagues bottom three teams now (West Brom, Cardiff and Fulham).

We've also dropped points against five of the six teams above us.

Dicky Pride

No

You know what's scary? A lot of man Utd fans think that "he should be given a chance with his own team".

It's taking all my e-lip biting to not call these people idiots. 21 points worse off than last year. I'm starting to get really worried now.

Blatter

No

Dicky Pride wrote: »

You know what's scary? A lot of man Utd fans think that "he should be given a chance with his own team".

It's taking all my e-lip biting to not call these people idiots. 21 points worse off than last year. I'm starting to get really worried now.

Is there really many fans that think that at this stage though?

I would say they are very much in a minority, most fans are of the opinion that he just isn't up to the job.

jaykay74

No

Dicky Pride wrote: »

It's taking all my e-lip biting to not call these people idiots.

have to be careful to attack the post and not the poster. Maybe something like if the opinion you expressed in your last post was to take human form, it would be an idiot. Maybe that could work...

Dicky Pride

No

jaykay74 wrote: »

have to be careful to attack the post and not the poster. Maybe something like if the opinion you expressed in your last post was to take human form, it would be an idiot. Maybe that could work...

It's all on twitter. I'm engaging with them because in someway it feels like I'm doing something when I currently feel helpless.

Dozyart

Blatter wrote: »

Is there really many fans that think that at this stage though?

I would say they are very much in a minority, most fans are of the opinion that he just isn't up to the job.

Of course they will become a minority when they are called idiots or delusional etc for trying to explain their opinion or thinking behind supporting Moyes!!

jaykay74

No

If he is not sacked today it wouldn't be for a while I think. Arsenal loss won't trigger it I don't think. Easily drop points away to palace late kick off Sat but CL game is the following Tuesday so very tight timewise.

Vinz Mesrine

I texted a mate of mine yesterday to see what he thinks now(he has been defending Moyes all season), the reply I got back was "the players aren't good enough, he'll turn it around". I just didn't know where to even start.

Corvo

Vinz Mesrine wrote: »

I texted a mate of mine yesterday to see what he thinks now(he has been defending Moyes all season), the reply I got back was "the players aren't good enough, he'll turn it around". I just didn't know where to even start.

By deleting his number hopefully :pac:

Red Crow

Blatter wrote: »

Is there really many fans that think that at this stage though?

I would say they are very much in a minority, most fans are of the opinion that he just isn't up to the job.

I'm prepared to give him time. He needs to start getting this team playing though. The balance of our team is terrible. We have lots of good attacking players but we are useless at the back and we have weak central midfield options.

Whoever comes in will have to buy at least 1 CB, 1/2 CM's and a left back. I think if we start the first 10 games in the same fashion next year then he should go but I don't really think that will happen.

sky88

No

Gary Neville really annoys me during Uniteds games he never criticizes the players he played when its warranted (Evra) or the style of play or moyes but i heard him countless times say mata wasnt doing his job cutting inside he should of stayed on the wing. I dont think hes said a good word about Mata since joining united

Demosthenese

No

People can blame Moyes for much of what has gone wrong and thats fine, but the players have alot to be blames for as well ...


Evra was always the first place in the list of potential mutinies as he proved with the French squad when things went wrong. Added to the fact that he knew Moyes wanted Baines and then didn't land his man. Evra is a coward and has been hiding for longer than Moyes' reign to be fair. Unbelievable that this man was made Captain at certain stages.

Rio was out in the news as soon as he realised he was not to be a regular starter form Moyes - surplus to requirements he tweeted an early disregard for Moyes' way of handling things when he questioned if it was the Man Utd way. Immediate disrespect.

Phil Jones should be shot when he enters midfield. He is nowhere near the quality to be in a midfield that used to boat such players as Keane and Scholes. I understand occasionally you need to put him in there but its a damning indication of how far the midfield has been let slip over the years.

Valencia has been poor for the whole season, fouls too much and final product is a disgrace.

Evans/Smalling - both highly tipped to be the next big thing they've simply not stepped up to the plate and now they have their chance both found wanting. Poorest united backline in recent years.

Same could be said for Ashley Young who finally got a new chance to impress under a different manager. It just shows how much Ferguson could get from a few average players who now are being found out.

Fletcher - not gona say anything bad about the lad as such, but he is possibly the only player that i have ever known to have gotten 50% better by not playing in certain games! CL finals being one. He is only back from longterm layoff and although his attitude cannot be questioned his form can, shameful that he is to be so relied upon there should be a long list of midfield players chomping at the bit to get in ahead of him.

Moyes made mistakes, replacing the whole backroom staff being the biggest - i mean if Evertons backroom staff where all that for the past 10 years they'd have maybe won something! but there's many portions of blame to be handed out.

Blatter

No

Red Crow wrote: »

I'm prepared to give him time. He needs to start getting this team playing though. The balance of our team is terrible. We have lots of good attacking players but we are useless at the back and we have weak central midfield options.

Whoever comes in will have to buy at least 1 CB, 1/2 CM's and a left back. I think if we start the first 10 games in the same fashion next year then he should go but I don't really think that will happen.

Can you ever envisage Moyes consistently challenging for the league at Man Utd even if he was allowed to build his own team?

That is the expectation at the club and I just can't see Moyes ever fulfilling it. He has shown very few signs that he could ever achieve that. He has done a very good job at convincing me of the opposite, he just doesn't have the mentality or ability for the job, that is very clear to me at this stage.

tallaghtmick

No

SherlockWatson wrote: »

You post more shít than most people, so it really annoys me when people like you feel the need to insult other people just giving their opinions, if you disagree with it, then make a solid rebuttal, not a simple one liner saying "you should change your name to postcrap"

It's just immature and painfully annoying to read, also, your "mammy" comment just highlights the immaturity that is painfully obvious in your posts.

Show me where I post ****?

I think you will find that I join in when there's a bit of fun here, I was the one that brought up the fake fan ****e that goes on here and its barely been seen since, im also the one that got a certain 2 posters to stop bickering here and even got a poxy warning over it, if you dont like what I post block me, the fact of the matter is he was posting utter tosh, saying that style of game is "good football", so the one liner was apt, also I do be in work most times I post in here so dont really have the time to get into massive stats arguements, ill leave that to the rest on here.

My "mammy" comment was aimed at you as the original comment had nothing to do with you yet you dragged it up from hours ago, he seen it he moved on, I dont see you jumping on everyone elses back when they call a poster a idiot or clown etc.

Giggsy11

Saw this stat on other forum,

Tony Pulis has won 7 of his 15 league games this season. 0.47 win ratio.
David Moyes has won 12 of his 25 league games this season. 0.48 win ratio.

That's a shocking stat.

Mitch Connor

No

jaykay74 wrote: »

If he is not sacked today it wouldn't be for a while I think. Arsenal loss won't trigger it I don't think. Easily drop points away to palace late kick off Sat but CL game is the following Tuesday so very tight timewise.

United don't play for 10 days after the arsenal game, with the squad going to Dubai for some warm weather training on Thursday - sacking him after the Arsenal game makes sense time-line wise, to be honest.

Dicky Pride

No

Some man utd die hards who were behind moyes have now had enough. Surely the board are sharing that view now.

Saucy McKetchup

No

Mitch Connor wrote: »

United don't play for 10 days after the arsenal game, with the squad going to Dubai for some warm weather training on Thursday - sacking him after the Arsenal game makes sense time-line wise, to be honest.

If moyes has booked warm weather training in Dubai then that would suggest that there's not a hope of him being sacked

Blatter

No

Mitch Connor wrote: »

United don't play for 10 days after the arsenal game, with the squad going to Dubai for some warm weather training on Thursday - sacking him after the Arsenal game makes sense time-line wise, to be honest.

I'm not too sure, I don't know the contract but I'd imagine that it'd be much more cost effective to sack him at the end of the season when he has mathematically failed to reach certain minimum targets like the top 4.

bucketybuck

No

Your Airbag wrote: »

Evra decided he wasn't arsed. Thats 100% on him.

I'm not going to deny Evra has a personal responsibility, but as I've said before, the Evra situation is just another item in a looong list of things that Moyes has handled badly.

Evra isn't arsed at all this season because Moyes made it abundantly clear that he wanted to replace him. He is in the twilight of his career, he has won everything, and a new unproven manager came in and publicly tried to replace him. I'm not surprised at all that Evra doesn't give a hoot about busting his balls to save Moyes job.

It was not a mistake to want Evra replaced. The mistake from Moyes was to publicly display that he wanted a new left back, and then to not follow through on getting one. Two transfer windows gone and Moyes did not get a new left back. Now he is stuck with Evra and frankly, I don't think Evra gives a **** about Moyes.

niallo27

No

Not a hope he will be sacked before the champions league games. While utd are still in it he has a chance to rescue the season.

tallaghtmick

No

niallo27 wrote: »

Not a hope he will be sacked before the champions league games. While utd are still in it he has a chance to rescue the season.

Worked for Chelsea with Di Matteo.....then he got sacked :pac:

Chucky the tree

Moyes won't be sacked until the summer. Sack him now it's just more money for his pay-off and the options to replace him are pretty thin. At this stage relegation is out of the question and CL qualification via the league is as well so little point doing it now.

DeanAustin

Have to say, I thought from the start that Moyes was not the man for United and I hold that view very strongly now. His style just isn't suited to a top team. Never has been, never will be.

However, two things in his defence:

1. He has had a lot of bad luck. Okay, luck shouldn't come into it with a club like United but everything is going against him and making a terrible situation even worse.
2. The man is not an idiot or a bad manager. He was excellent at Everton and he'll be very good somewhere else again, I'm sure. Some of the abuse I've heard people give him is unfair.

Like I say, that doesn't detract from the fact that he's in way over his head and that he's been a bad mistake for United. But the extreme reactions from some are unnecessary.

niallo27

No

bucketybuck wrote: »

I'm not going to deny Evra has a personal responsibility, but as I've said before, the Evra situation is just another item in a looong list of things that Moyes has handled badly.

Evra isn't arsed at all this season because Moyes made it abundantly clear that he wanted to replace him. He is in the twilight of his career, he has won everything, and a new unproven manager came in and publicly tried to replace him. I'm not surprised at all that Evra doesn't give a hoot about busting his balls to save Moyes job.

It was not a mistake to want Evra replaced. The mistake from Moyes was to publicly display that he wanted a new left back, and then to not follow through on getting one. Two transfer windows gone and Moyes did not get a new left back. Now he is stuck with Evra and frankly, I don't think Evra gives a **** about Moyes.

I don't think this is right. You have a full back being paid a fortune playing at home and he looks as if he doesn't give a **** but people are blaming Moyes for this. Even he doesn't give a **** about Moyes he owes it to fans and his teammates. You can forgive most things but showing no heart you can't.

Blatter

No

bucketybuck wrote: »

I'm not going to deny Evra has a personal responsibility, but as I've said before, the Evra situation is just another item in a looong list of things that Moyes has handled badly.

Evra isn't arsed at all this season because Moyes made it abundantly clear that he wanted to replace him. He is in the twilight of his career, he has won everything, and a new unproven manager came in and publicly tried to replace him. I'm not surprised at all that Evra doesn't give a hoot about busting his balls to save Moyes job.

It was not a mistake to want Evra replaced. The mistake from Moyes was to publicly display that he wanted a new left back, and then to not follow through on getting one. Two transfer windows gone and Moyes did not get a new left back. Now he is stuck with Evra and frankly, I don't think Evra gives a **** about Moyes now.

No, Evra was going down this road under Ferguson. He was awful in 11/12 and not great last season. His performances this season can't be blamed on Moyes trying to bring in a left back, he'd have played just as bad under any manager imo.

It is 100% Moyes' fault for not replacing him though.

Giggsy11

Blatter wrote: »

Can you ever envisage Moyes consistently challenging for the league at Man Utd even if he was allowed to build his own team?

That is the expectation at the club and I just can't see Moyes ever fulfilling it. He has shown very few signs that he could ever achieve that. He has done a very good job at convincing me of the opposite, he just doesn't have the mentality or ability for the job, that is very clear to me at this stage.

IMO he is a very good midtable manager, can do very good job (limited) at midtable level but lacks something at top level. Maybe something like taking risks or taking the game to the opposition and working on all aspects on the game.

Mitch Connor

No

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Moyes won't be sacked until the summer. Sack him now it's just more money for his pay-off and the options to replace him are pretty thin. At this stage relegation is out of the question and CL qualification via the league is as well so little point doing it now.

But if the plan is to sack him in the summer, why waste time with him till then - his work on transfers would be a waste of time and he could further alienate players like Kagawa, RVP and Chico, who the next manager might want. Better to get rid now and damn the consequences for this season.

xtal191

No

Conte or Klopp please

Mitch Connor

No

niallo27 wrote: »

I don't think this is right. You have a full back being paid a fortune playing at home and he looks as if he doesn't give a **** but people are blaming Moyes for this. Even he doesn't give a **** about Moyes he owes it to fans and his teammates. You can forgive most things but showing no heart you can't.

If I was Moyes I would bin Evra, buttner is rubbish but at least he would try.

bucketybuck

No

niallo27 wrote: »

I don't think this is right. You have a full back being paid a fortune playing at home and he looks as if he doesn't give a **** but people are blaming Moyes for this. Even he doesn't give a **** about Moyes he owes it to fans and his teammates. You can forgive most things but showing no heart you can't.

I never said I was forgiving anything, I am as disappointed as anybody with Evra himself but its too simplistic to just say that Evra has no heart, you also need to look at the circumstances that created the situation.

Chucky the tree

Mitch Connor wrote: »

But if the plan is to sack him in the summer, why waste time with him till then - his work on transfers would be a waste of time and he could further alienate players like Kagawa, RVP and Chico, who the next manager might want. Better to get rid now and damn the consequences for this season.

Who cares if his work on transfers is a waste? I'm sure Kagawa and Co. will soon turn over a new leaf if a high profile manager is hired. Sack him now and who replaces him? Giggs?

Mitch Connor

No

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Who cares if his work on transfers is a waste? I'm sure Kagawa and Co. will soon turn over a new leaf if a high profile manager is hired. Sack him now and who replaces him? Giggs?

Why not Giggs? Could Giggs honestly have done worse yesterday?

I don't see Giggs as the long term solution, but I'd have more faith in him to win United a few games between now and the end of the season than I do Moyes.

Moyes doesn't have the slighest notion what to do with the United squad as it is, his management has been a pathetic embarrassment.

Donnielighto

Moyes is a capable manager. He has shown that over the last decade. He hasn't put that in display with utd though. United always crossed the played with width under fergie but moyes ia taking that to extremes.

niallo27

No

bucketybuck wrote: »

I never said I was forgiving anything, I am as disappointed as anybody with Evra himself but its too simplistic to just say that Evra has no heart, you also need to look at the circumstances that created the situation.

It's too easy for the players to hide behind Moyes though. There is enough big characters to stand up and be counted. Says a lot about the character of players when things are going ****e.

Lord TSC

No

Giggs in while we spend a few weeks looking for a proper replacement wouldn't be e worst idea. And I bet the players would have more respect for Giggs at this stage....

wonderfullife

No

kryogen wrote: »

The team is not playing to its strengths right now at all, and it is clear to everyone that its not working, the only reasonable possibility there is to draw is that Moyes also sees its not working, but that is how he wants them to play and he will stick with it until it is working or until he gets the boot. I know which is more likely.

I want Moyes to succeed, I want the romance of the guy who serves his apprenticeship in the game, does it the right way and gets his shot at the big time, only to grasp it with both hands and thrive. Not what we have seen so far.

There are positives, to deny them is common enough for plenty of fans right now, but there are positives to his reign. I like that the team is focused more on possession, that it is not using it better is still a huge problem of course.

1. 4-4-2 with 2 wide-men launching in crosses is a tactic best left to the late 1990s. Incidentally it worked so well in the 90s and 00's largely down to the fact that 2 of that midfield (Keane and Beckham) had phenomenal engines. Becks never gets enough credit for the amount he runs, tracked back and closed down space. And, well, Keane was Keane. There was also a steady treadmill of predatory box-players - Cole, Van Nistelrooy, Ole Gunnar etc. Good standard crossing to them was always going to pay off.

2. For me, it's not very romantic someone serving "an apprenticeship" with Preston and Everton then landing the top job at a club he's never played for.

If it was someone like Neville, Ole Gunnar, hell even a Denis Irwin type, then by all means it'd be touching. An ex-player who went away, did the hard graft at middling clubs, returning to manage their team. That's romance.

Appointing Moyes is about as romantic as appointing Alan Curbishley. He was pretty good at retaining Premier League status too whilst winning nothing.

3. Lastly, this is a fundamental problem. Possession, as you point out, is all about what you do with it - and they're not doing much with it.

Also, possession football is not the style associated with the teams flying high in the league this year. Liverpool, Everton, Chelsea, even City & Arsenal of all teams are willing to cede possession to inferior sides and break at pace, power and decimate teams.

It's too easy to set up against "possession teams" nowadays. People have a go at Fulham for their style yesterday but when you analyse it coldly they had the 3 best chances of the match, 2 resulting in goals. For all Uniteds crossing and possession, the clinical chances fell to a side bottom of the table, who were rubbish against Sheffield United not even a week ago, and who allowed United to stroke it around and hit them on the counter at pace.

Kieran Richardson was made to look like a 21 year old Usain Bolt at times, a flyer!! He's 30 this year ffs! There's simply no pace in the spine of this team. Vidic, Carrick, Mata, RVP, Rooney, all excellent players but not a yard of pace to rub between the 3 of them over more than 5 yards. Contrast that to the spine of City (Kompany, YaYa, Aguero) which is full of speed and energy.

The game is moving away from possession based football. It's moving towards effective use of limited possession. The fact Moyes is swimming against the tide is no surprise.

tallaghtmick

No

I said it yesterday but Carlos Queroz would be a decent short term manager, isnt managing a middle eastern international team? he could do both.

Also what Chicarito said, I dont know why people are getting so annoyed about it, it could mean anything tbh.

Blatter

No

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Why not Giggs? Could Giggs honestly have done worse yesterday?

I don't see Giggs as the long term solution, but I'd have more faith in him to win United a few games between now and the end of the season than I do Moyes.

Moyes doesn't have the slighest notion what to do with the United squad as it is, his management has been a pathetic embarrassment.

Still, his point about not caring about his work on transfers stands as does his point that players will consider staying even if he's only replaced in the Summer as opposed to now.

It comes down to the contract situation for me. Whatever makes most sense for United in terms of saving a lot of money.

If the club is going to lose out on a further £10m+ by sacking him now rather than the Summer, I'd wait till the Summer. If it didn't make much difference, I'd obviously sack him now.

bucketybuck

No

Again I don't want to defend Evra too much, he has been shocking this season, but the last goal yesterday gave another hint of something I suspected. I think Evras legs have gone.

I remember a friend asking me to play 7 a side Astroturf with his team. I had always played over the years so I went up for a few weeks, but I found that it just wasn't there any more. I could launch forward as quick as ever but once the attack broke down, all I could do was watch as the younger players ran back the way I had just come. I would be looking at an oppposing player and thinking "I need to track him" but the legs just weren't there to do it. Thats when I knew I was done.

Thats what the Bent goal reminded me off yesterday. Evra could see Bent and probably was thinking "I need to get tight on him" but the burst of pace needed to do that in a split second just wasn't there. Thats also why you see him almost sauntering back at times, looking like he doesn't care.

Time catches up with everybody, and I could be wrong but I think it has caught up with Evra, after all there is a lot of mileage in those legs. Moyes really needed to have sorted this situation before now.

Dicky Pride

No

Donnielighto wrote: »

Moyes is a capable manager. He has shown that over the last decade. He hasn't put that in display with utd though. United always crossed the played with width under fergie but moyes ia taking that to extremes.

Capable managers belong in the championship. Not the biggest job in football.

bucketybuck

No

niallo27 wrote: »

It's too easy for the players to hide behind Moyes though. There is enough big characters to stand up and be counted. Says a lot about the character of players when things are going ****e.

Again, far too simplistic. One charge you cannot throw at Patrice Evra is a lack of character, this is a guy who was at times the best left back in the world and a guy who has a proven record of performing on the big stage.

tallaghtmick

No

Dicky Pride wrote: »

Capable managers belong in the championship. Not the biggest job in football.

He's a mid table manager at best or a Celtic manager, he will bounce back.....just not with us.

SlickRic

there's no point getting yourselves in a tizzy about Moyes getting sacked.

it won't happen unless Fergie allows it. so it would mean him not being stubborn.

hmmm.

not gonna happen.

tallaghtmick

No

SlickRic wrote: »

there's no point getting yourselves in a tizzy about Moyes getting sacked.

it won't happen unless Fergie allows it. so it would mean him not being stubborn.

hmmm.

not gonna happen.

Isnt it the boards decision?

Mitch Connor

No

tallaghtmick wrote: »

Isnt it the boards decision?

On which Fergie and Charlton sit - the two main football fellas on the board. The rest are business people who may defer to Fergie and Charlton.

tallaghtmick

tallaghtmick wrote: »

Isnt it the boards decision?

I'd imagine it is. Fergie is on the board though and I'd imagine has alot of influence over decisions that affect the actual playing side of things.

Your Airbag

Pro. F wrote: »

Is it a surprise that Evra was lazy and shít at defending today? No it is not, we've known that he is like that for a few years.

bucketybuck wrote: »

I'm not going to deny Evra has a personal responsibility, but as I've said before, the Evra situation is just another item in a looong list of things that Moyes has handled badly.

How people can blame Moyes for Evras lack of effort when he was doing this under Fergie is strange. Evra bucked up a little when Buttner scored on his debut only to slip into lazy mode again so the competition excuse is invalid. Moyes tired for Coentrao and Shaw but they didn't happen. Just because Moyes tried to sign other players this gives Evra an excuse to be even lazier and to switch off? Your having a laugh. This is all on Evra, he is letting the fans, the team and his manager down.

He is still getting paid by UTD right now. Regardless of what his future holds he should work hard for us. Can you imagine going to work and doing a crap job for 12 months because you know your off at the end of the year to another job? You'd be fired with no reference before the year is out.

Blatter wrote: »

No, Evra was going down this road under Ferguson. He was awful in 11/12 and not great last season. His performances this season can't be blamed on Moyes trying to bring in a left back, he'd have played just as bad under any manager imo.

It is 100% Moyes' fault for not replacing him though.

Exactly. Evra has been like this for three seasons. When competition arrived there was a slight temporary improvement.

Yes if we had a new LB Evra's attitude would not be a problem but that does not absolve the player of his attitude and all responsibility. He could be out there trying and giving us the best final months he possibly can but he is not because Evra himself, not Moyes, has chosen to do so.

Cartman78

Does anyone know if Mourinho was ever a realistic/viable option to replace Ferguson?

Goes without saying that Man Utd would be a very different beast with him at the helm, so would be interested to know if the move was ever on the cards and why it didn't happen.

Ferguson seems to have escaped any blame at all for the current situation but can't imagine he's going to put his hand up and admit his choosing of the Chose one was flawed