Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod Warning: Post #7871

Corvo

bullvine wrote: »

He should have left after the Newcastle defeat, its too late now. Charlton and Fergie still thinking like its the 20th Century, the Champions League has changed everything. There is absolute zero chance of an improvement. Appointing Moyes will go down as the worst decision in the history of the club. He is gonna set us back years.

All he had to do was keep the team stable, he couldn't even do that. There has not been one decent performance this season, not a single one in the prem league.

Disgraceful.

I hope to God that if he is sacked (unlikely) that he does not benefit from a full contract payout. I hope the Glazers have it riddled with clauses

Leftist

No

yes it's all the players fault.

if only they had someone who can motivate, organise and train them.

it really is painfully frustrating reading and hearing these excuses.

the club is in bits, the manager is clueless, totally lacking in ideas other than keep the ball and cross it in. and he has the the defence in tatters. no discipline or structure.
and people still blame singular instances, a single mistake by a defender bereft of all confidence, a referee decision or bad f**king luck.

TheDoc

ericzeking wrote: »

You saved me writing a long post Doc....I was going to say exactly that about being forced wide by the crowded box and the quality of delivery and attacking in the box was the issue. Chicha might have made a difference if brought on earlier.

Your posting has been on fire lately. Major Kudos.

I'm with you.... I still support Moyes too.

Cheers man.

In fairness there is plenty of top posters in here, and it's easy to have a good discussion with most. We are all passionate about the club, and we all have our views. I just stand firmly behind mine.

It just infuriates me to see. There is so many angles to potentially what the problem is, I just don't feel it's as clear cut as Moyes being the problem, nor his staff.
I think he has been DRASTICALLY let down by players in the squad who were either average in the first place, or havn't got the hunger to prove themselves from scratch (ie Evra, Ferdinand).

I think yesterday showed how complex the issue is, that it's not as striaght forward as Moyes being the problem. If that game finished 2-0, no problems. Fulham have a decent defensive record oddly enough, and literally went 4-6-0, and at times 6-4-0. They had no intention of playing football, and that can be hard to break down regardless of how good you are. (Reference Barcalona v Celtic).

Manager is taking extreme flack for two horrendous defensive errors, from two defenders who have been extrmely sub-par this season.


You can setup tactics, formations, style and all that for as much and as long as you want. But if your left back just stands idly by watching the play unfold, or your centre half get's sucked completely out of position through pure tunnel vision and lack of awareness, you can toss your whiteboards out the window.

Maximus Alexander

tallaghtmick wrote: »

Now to get some goals out of him too

I can already see his Wikipedia article as of next week:

He made his debut against Cardiff City on 28 January and provided one assist in the 2–0 victory.[77] On 12 February 2014 he scored twice in the Barclay's Premier League match against Arsenal. United went on to lose the match 6-2.[78]

bucketybuck

No

TheDoc wrote: »

He is probably utilising what he feels at present is the only way to win/grind a result. Obviously the players are carrying out his instructions.

He is dropping points to the likes of Stoke and Fulham, and we haven't had a single good performance this season, not one.

At what point does he realise he is doing it wrong?

KH25

No

Leftist wrote: »

yes it's all the players fault.

if only they had someone who can motivate, organise and train them.

it really is painfully frustrating reading and hearing these excuses.

the club is in bits, the manager is clueless, totally lacking in ideas other than keep the ball and cross it in. and he has the the defence in tatters. no discipline or structure.
and people still blame singular instances, a single mistake by a defender bereft of all confidence, a referee decision or bad f**king luck.

Its not 100% down to the players, but its also not 100% down to Moyes. Both are responsible.

bucketybuck

No

TheDoc wrote: »

If that game finished 2-0, no problems.

I totally disagree. Winning the game at 2-1 I was seething with that abysmal performance, the final score doesn't actually matter in this regard.

beno619

No

How Evra can continue to be selected is mind boggling, but is damming of Moyes and is management this season.
Evra has been ****e but his been given far too many opportunities to do so, Buttner tries which is the bare minimum really.

I actually feel bad for the likes of Cleverley, he shouldn't have played so many games earlier in the season and I feel its gonna take him a long time to get over the battering he's received from United fans this season, that coming from one of his biggest critics.

The argument that Moyes is only playing this way because he feels its his only option is a joke.If we were getting results I would understand but it clearly isnt working and there is no sign of any of that changing. Its a criminal for the likes of RVP, Mata and Rooney to be forced into such anti football.

Mata looked just as helpless as Kagawa has all season, not a hope of him forcing his way into the Spain starting line up playing on the right wing for David Moyes. Thats another player added to the list that have become shadows under Moyes. Kagawa, RVP, Hernandez..

I'll reach new lows on Wednesday by having to quietly cheer on Arsenal. United literally have nothing to play for, the season is a write off at least Arsenal might stop the oil clubs from winning the title. Thats how bad this season has been and there is no sign of things improving.

RGDATA!

TheDoc wrote: »

I don't personally think it's tactical or style. With what happened yesterday we should have hammered Fulham all day long.

if it's not tactical or style how would you explain the number of crosses yesterday, contrasted with one pass all game from Rooney to RVP?

bucketybuck

bucketybuck wrote: »

I totally disagree. Winning the game at 2-1 I was seething with that abysmal performance, the final score doesn't actually matter in this regard.

Exactly how I felt. Like a bull....:mad:

Wouldn't mind even the missus said what type of awful football are Man utd playing.

tallaghtmick

No

From the Daily (fail)mail

Sacked Swansea manager Michael Laudrup is on Tottenham's radar but Real Madrid are considering turning to the Dane in the summer

*Please note childish post and stereotypical Italian wording.


"Hi Carlo its Ed here from Man Utd, do you wanna manage a non mental club?"

"Are a Young and a Valencia still a there"

"ye...yes they are Carlo"

*sound of phone being hung up*

Yup Moyes will still be here next year

Leftist

No

TheDoc wrote: »

You can setup tactics, formations, style and all that for as much and as long as you want. But if your left back just stands idly by watching the play unfold, or your centre half get's sucked completely out of position through pure tunnel vision and lack of awareness, you can toss your whiteboards out the window.

funny how some managers/staff can take responsibility for their defense. Like Carlos Queiroz built at united and mourinho at chelsea or countless other managers all over the place.
But for Moyes, it's not his fault his defense is in tatters.

KH25

No

At this stage Evra should be a winger. He played fairly well going forward yesterday. His defending has just gone to pot for the last few years. He puts more effort going forward than tracking back.

Your Airbag

bucketybuck wrote: »

Your Airbag talks about the players being responsible when they cross the white line, but as far as I am concerned there is no way that a team of Mata, Young, Rooney, RVP and Carrick cross the ball 83 times in a match unless they are explicitly being told to do so.

I never made this point. Of course Moyes had them set out to repeatedly corss the ball yesterday. I've already said I thought this was madness.

I was talking about workrate/desire/concentration or lack of it when crossing the white line. Those things should be a given, players should always seek to cut out danger when they have the chance and not just stand and watch.


In reference to the crossing, as constant as it was, the way Fulham had set up didn't make this approach as bad as it seemed. If they are parking the bus and not pressing us then they are allowing cross after cross to come in. There were a few occasions when players cut inside and tried to work something but with so many Fulham bodies there it was hard to work something centrally in and around or just outside the box.

Catching them on the counter and going central was also not an option as they never attempted to press up the field, they just sat in their own half. I counted two attempted forward passes from midfield from Carrick but the ball was going into heavy traffic. There were pockets of resistance all over the park, Fulhams approach was as straightforward as they come, lets have a man for man approach in our own half and feed off scraps.

Its the errors for those scraps that cost us not our crossing.

If we got back to individual responsibilty and look at the crossing approach and see that UTD hit 80+ crosses and had massive possession you can still argue that the standard of those crosses were very poor whether Fulham were set to defend or not. So many over hit and over powered balls that were not seemingly directed at anyone in particular.

Moyes went with the something will eventually get through approach against a team parking the bus and it worked offensively, we got through eventually. Its concentration and errors at the back that cost, you can focus the blame on Moyes poor tactics all day but that part of the game worked and you can be sure players being told to give it a go in defense if you can be bothered was not, unlike cross it, an instruction given to the players.

Individual errors and concentration cost us two goals yesterday. The players are not blameless in all of this.

sawfish

tallaghtmick wrote: »

From the Daily (fail)mail

Sacked Swansea manager Michael Laudrup is on Tottenham's radar but Real Madrid are considering turning to the Dane in the summer

The papers really write some bullsh1t to fill the pages.

Tottenham and Real Madrid`s managers are both doing great. Ridiculous talk.

bullvine

No

Leftist wrote: »

yes it's all the players fault.

if only they had someone who can motivate, organise and train them.

it really is painfully frustrating reading and hearing these excuses.

the club is in bits, the manager is clueless, totally lacking in ideas other than keep the ball and cross it in. and he has the the defence in tatters. no discipline or structure.
and people still blame singular instances, a single mistake by a defender bereft of all confidence, a referee decision or bad f**king luck.

Agreed. Its definitely the players fault but the blame lies with the manager. He just can't motivate them unfortunately.

You've got to hand it to Liverpool, they've played really well for the most part this season but United have not even put up a fight for fourth spot.

I think United will be doing well to get 60 points at this stage.

Surely a defeat to Palace will spell the end but the way the club has trusted Moyes it will take Relegation for that to happen.

TheDoc

KH25 wrote: »

New blood that is hungry for success.

This cannot be mentioned enough afaik.

Seems some of the senior ranks feel they've nothing to prove, or arn't arsed proving themselves to a new regime.

Getting in new hungry players would go along way to raising the overall tempo and play. Centred around a Mata who has been cast aside by Mourinho and Chelsea, stands to reason changes need to be made to create a hungry, vibrant competitive team

You cant do that with players who feel they've nothing to prove. Standing still is going backward in football.

Evra,Ferdinand,Vidic will be gone in the summer. Potentially more, replaced with vibrant, hungry players who will want PL success, both domestically and in Europe.

KH25

No

TheDoc wrote: »

This cannot be mentioned enough afaik.

Seems some of the senior ranks feel they've nothing to prove, or arn't arsed proving themselves to a new regime.

Getting in new hungry players would go along way to raising the overall tempo and play. Centred around a Mata who has been cast aside by Mourinho and Chelsea, stands to reason changes need to be made to create a hungry, vibrant competitive team

You cant do that with players who feel they've nothing to prove. Standing still is going backward in football.

Evra,Ferdinand,Vidic will be gone in the summer. Potentially more, replaced with vibrant, hungry players who will want PL success, both domestically and in Europe.

I think Rooney will be gone too. New tactics, style of play and players are desperately needed.

tallaghtmick

No

sawfish wrote: »

The papers really write some bullsh1t to fill the pages.

Tottenham and Real Madrid`s managers are both doing great. Ridiculous talk.

A poster here commented last week(dont ask me to find it as id be all day! lol) that apparently hes under pressure already? You know the Real circus 2nd place will be nothing unless they win the champions league.

TheDoc

RGDATA! wrote: »

if it's not tactical or style how would you explain the number of crosses yesterday, contrasted with one pass all game from Rooney to RVP?

People aren't understanding what I'm saying. The sytle at present obviously comes form MOyes direction, but I think it's only temporary due to what he feels is a lack of quality, and he is trying to do something that can win games.
He clearly feels the quality isn't there to unlock defences with slow, patient build up play. And you know I sometimes agree with that. RVP is more an explosive forward, who is more effective on the move rather then being static. your relying on Rooney and Mata to operate miracle interchanges to unlock a Fulham defence packed with ten lads in front of them.

In terms of specifically yesterday, I'd expect a team of our stature and quality, to convert a number of chances from that amount of crosses. Regardless of how it looks, lack of quality and compsure was evident. RVP missed a sitter, so did Chico. So did Rooney.

Regardless of the stlye or formation, we should be beating Fulham. When we are not, like yesterday, you need to look at the players, who were criminal with their quality and ruthlessness.

beno619

No

KH25 wrote: »

I still support Moyes like the two of you. I said it last night that I want to see him succeed. I have at times said he's not good enough and I may well be right there, but as long as he is our manager I support him.

The team needs a clear out drastically. New blood that is hungry for success.

Yes lets blame the players who have brough us success over the past few year apart from Evra who may or may not give a crap/ have the legs. The players are victims IMO.

Every time Moyes puts Valencia at right back he is involved in the team conceding. Does Moyes learn anything from matches? The most worrying thing is that he is sticking to his football believes and tactics which anyone can see are not working.

I said like others at the start of season that 4th place had to be the minimum requirement for Moyes this season or he would be under pressure. I wouldn't mind if we were 7th but he was trying to implement a good style of football and the players were getting used to it. But no, the football and tactics have been terrible (crosses, crosses, crosses) so it's hard to see Moyes as the man to bring the club forward into the future.

FutureGuy

bullvine wrote: »

Agreed. Its definitely the players fault but the blame lies with the manager. He just can't motivate them unfortunately.

You've got to hand it to Liverpool, they've played really well for the most part this season but United have not even put up a fight for fourth spot.

I think United will be doing well to get 60 points at this stage.

Surely a defeat to Palace will spell the end but the way the club has trusted Moyes it will take Relegation for that to happen.

Palace did some fabulous business in January and are very tough to beat at home. A win would be a tough ask.

Looking at the table, we cold easily end the season in 9th.

Leftist

No

TheDoc wrote: »

People aren't understanding what I'm saying. The sytle at present obviously comes form MOyes direction, but I think it's only temporary due to what he feels is a lack of quality

No. Just no.

he had januzaj, mata, rooney and rvp out there.

lack of quality?

his designs for last summer (fabregas joke bids aside) was fellaini and baines.

that's his design. Crosses into the big man.

If he had choice, he would buy players to suit that game.

if he wanted to get the most out the players he has until he can bring in different players, he would not try to play a game familiar to tony pulis.

the only reason people are backing him now is because SAF told them too.

United don't sack managers.

except O'farrell, Doc, Sexton and Big Ron. :rolleyes:

TheDoc

Leftist wrote: »

funny how some managers/staff can take responsibility for their defense. Like Carlos Queiroz built at united and mourinho at chelsea or countless other managers all over the place.
But for Moyes, it's not his fault his defense is in tatters.

A lot of selective picking going on in posts this morning :rolleyes:

When it comes to individual, brain fart Sunday football, comical defending and individuals errors from your defence. How is that the managers fault?

Mourinho was openly critical of his defence earlier in the season. He mentioned how he sets them up, he does this and that, but then they make a comical error, what can he do.

Is Brendan Rodgers to take the flak for Toure giving a suicide pass against West Brom to level the game.


The point is that you can work tactics, positional training until sundown, but if one of your defenders makes a howler, what the **** can the manager actually be expected to do. You can't compensate, or do anything, when someone makes a blunder. Evra and Vidic made two defensive howlers yesterday. Somehow that's his fault?
Is it his fault RVP missed an open goal from 3 yards ?

I'ts not Moyes fault that Evra and Vidic were shocking in two incidents yesterday.

Your Airbag

KH25 wrote: »

I think Rooney will be gone too. New tactics, style of play and players are desperately needed.

His passion for the 2nd goal yesterday would indicate otherwise.

He also recently stated he wants to break Sir Bobbys record for club and country.

beno619

No

TheDoc wrote: »

A lot of selective picking going on in posts this morning :rolleyes:

When it comes to individual, brain fart Sunday football, comical defending and individuals errors from your defence. How is that the managers fault?

Mourinho was openly critical of his defence earlier in the season. He mentioned how he sets them up, he does this and that, but then they make a comical error, what can he do.

Is Brendan Rodgers to take the flak for Toure giving a suicide pass against West Brom to level the game.


The point is that you can work tactics, positional training until sundown, but if one of your defenders makes a howler, what the **** can the manager actually be expected to do. You can't compensate, or do anything, when someone makes a blunder. Evra and Vidic made two defensive howlers yesterday. Somehow that's his fault?
Is it his fault RVP missed an open goal from 3 yards ?

I'ts not Moyes fault that Evra and Vidic were shocking in two incidents yesterday.

Yes when this carry on happens for a whole season its Moyes fault.

Why did Valencia finish the game at RB ?

Why was Evra in the starting line up ?

Why did we finish a game that should have been a walk in the park with 7 forwards on the pitch including Rooney in CM. Its an absolute circus.

KH25

No

Your Airbag wrote: »

His passion for the 2nd goal yesterday would indicate otherwise.

He also recently stated he wants to break Sir Bobbys record for club and country.

You have a point and I hope Im wrong, but players say a lot of things and then go against them.

TheDoc

Leftist wrote: »

No. Just no.

he had januzaj, mata, rooney and rvp out there.

lack of quality?

his designs for last summer (fabregas joke bids aside) was fellaini and baines.

that's his design. Crosses into the big man

I stopped here.

I'm not going to be a smartarse or offensive in anyway, but I think your post sort of sum's up the sort of poor level of critism Moyes is receiving that I don't believe is fair. There are a lot of things that are indefensiveable that he has down or will do, but when your calling for the managers head or going to give him flack, we need to be objective and base it of indisputable evidence and facts.

Fellaini was bought as a DM. If you thought he was buying Fellaini to play as a target man, to be coupled with crosses from Baines, I think your only familiar with Fellaini from the last 18 months, which is somewhat understandable considering it's where only most people took notice of him. When he was moved forward as an auxiliary no.10.

Again I'm not being a smart arse, but your forming an opinion on the manager, from incorrect assumptions from your own end.

GSPfan

No

The media are being extremely reserved about this whole thing. Any other manager in the World would be in trouble, apart from Bulletproof Moyes.

That celebration yesterday after Carricks Goal sickened me. Not even gonna watch the Arsenal game on Wednesday. I have something else to do that could be easily missed but I'd rather miss the match for my own sanity. Wednesday could be another frustrating mess.

Al Capwned

Leftist wrote: »

No. Just no.

he had januzaj, mata, rooney and rvp out there.

lack of quality?

his designs for last summer (fabregas joke bids aside) was fellaini and baines.

that's his design. Crosses into the big man.

If he had choice, he would buy players to suit that game.

if he wanted to get the most out the players he has until he can bring in different players, he would not try to play a game familiar to tony pulis.

the only reason people are backing him now is because SAF told them too.

United don't sack managers.

except O'farrell, Doc, Sexton and Big Ron. :rolleyes:

I don't know about that tbh, I'm sure people are capable of making their own minds up.
My support of the manager is not based on anything that Ferguson said.

TheDoc

beno619 wrote: »

Yes when this carry on happens for a whole season its Moyes fault.

Why did Valencia finish the game at RB ?

Rafael's final ball was absolutely terrible yesterday. United were receiving little to no pressure from Fulham and Rfael was playing most of the game as a right winger. Makes sense to replace him with an actual right winger. Valencia obviously is suspect defensively, but he wasn't overly at fault for the goal conceded. I probably would have done the same, or maybe replaced Young with Kagawa, Rafael with Janners, and try something more intricate for the last 25 minutes. But I get why he did it.

Why was Evra in the starting line up ?

Moyes has yet to make an example of a big player. Evra is important to the dressing room ,and Buttner isn't the perfect replacement. I'm sure Evra has been given the opportunity to prove himself to Moyes, which he failed again yesterday. Has to be the last straw, and a decision needs to be made for him to be dropped.

Why did we finish a game that should have been a walk in the park with 7 forwards on the pitch including Rooney in CM. Its an absolute circus.

Fulham were being pretty resilient and fair play to them, Steklenberg made some terrific saves and their hole team defended compact and in their own box.

Rooney moving into CM was to accommodate Janners on the wing, by removing Fletcher. Mata moved in central behind RVP. The way the game was flowing it would be reasonable to expect Rooney to play more advanced. Wasn't a horrendous or terrible decision, Fulham were barely getting out of their own half.

eagle eye

No

TheDoc wrote: »

I stopped here.

I'm not going to be a smartarse or offensive in anyway, but I think your post sort of sum's up the sort of poor level of critism Moyes is receiving that I don't believe is fair. There are a lot of things that are indefensiveable that he has down or will do, but when your calling for the managers head or going to give him flack, we need to be objective and base it of indisputable evidence and facts.

Fellaini was bought as a DM. If you thought he was buying Fellaini to play as a target man, to be coupled with crosses from Baines, I think your only familiar with Fellaini from the last 18 months, which is somewhat understandable considering it's where only most people took notice of him. When he was moved forward as an auxiliary no.10.

Again I'm not being a smart arse, but your forming an opinion on the manager, from incorrect assumptions from your own end.

Why would somebody think he was bought to play in defensive midfield when the manager that bought him is the guy that turned him into a no.10?
I think everybody knows he played deeper for Everton for a couple of years but he was moved up and his price went up too because of that.

As for people not being fair, I'm not a United fan but its clear that Moyes does not have it for a job this big. There is too much disorganisation in midfield at the moment and thats all down to the manager. It was the big problem for the same manager at Everton. He could get his team playing great football but a lot of the goals conceded by this teams all through the years have been down to disorganisation in midfield.

tallaghtmick

No

FutureGuy wrote: »

Palace did some fabulous business in January and are very tough to beat at home. A win would be a tough ask.

Looking at the table, we cold easily end the season in 9th.

This is the Man Utd under Moyes, we would never have said that had Fergie still been in charge

Royal Legend

DeanAustin wrote: »

What a stupid thing to post. Do you know anything about the man's career outside of his spell at Liverpool?

Yes I do, what did he achieve in your opinion exactly? Smoke and mirrors and palsy with the FA. Achieved F all in Italy, his only success was in Scandanavia, and even then he was not liked, he is an arrogant, classless little man. He was completely out of his depth with Liverpool. I am sure he has already wrote a book of excuses for Brazil in the summer.
His list of excuses are endless, at least Moyes is fronting up, whereas Hodgson always sets his sights low.

I do not see the same with Moyes just yet, give him time and I think he will get it right. Can he make the step up to build a PL winning team, that remains to be seen, but I have no doubt that with investment in the summer, Utd will challenge next season.

Agueroooo

DeanAustin wrote: »

What a stupid thing to post. Do you know anything about the man's career outside of his spell at Liverpool?

book marked til the end of the W.C

bucketybuck

No

TheDoc wrote: »

Is Brendan Rodgers to take the flak for Toure giving a suicide pass against West Brom to level the game.


The point is that you can work tactics, positional training until sundown, but if one of your defenders makes a howler, what the **** can the manager actually be expected to do.

This reasoning only holds up for the first error, maybe the second. Toure can make that one error, but if he starts making that error regularly then damn right Rodgers gets criticism, for continuing to play him!

The manager cannot do anything about one howler, but when the entire defence is under performing for an entire season then you really do have to look at the bigger picture.

Your Airbag

beno619 wrote: »

Yes when this carry on happens for a whole season its Moyes fault.

Why did Valencia finish the game at RB ?

Why was Evra in the starting line up ?

Why did we finish a game that should have been a walk in the park with 7 forwards on the pitch including Rooney in CM. Its an absolute circus.

When players make errors its the players fault. The manager doesn't tell them to switch off or give it a go if you like. They train and prepare all week, do you honestly believe Moyes is able to predict these errors.

DDG spilling the ball late to Sunderland cost us a cup final. Rio, Evra and Vidic have all cost us points. We have let in four very late costly goals from individual errors.

We had a game against Everton where Welbeck headed over the bar from an open goal.

We have had a fair amount of bad luck but Moyes is not the only person that needs to be looked at.

TheDoc

Al Capwned wrote: »

I don't know about that tbh, I'm sure people are capable of making their own minds up.
My support of the manager is not based on anything that Ferguson said.

Same for me. I believe the squad have let the club down badly here.

We are on the cusp of having one of the most competitive leagues for aslong as I can remember.

City have got a title under their belt, and then the had the post winning hangover. They know what it takes to win, and they know what happens when they ease of after a title win. They've a manager inplace that is doing well. They are a massive threat.

Chelsea now have a manager potentially for a couple of years that will bring them into the title race properly. They are going back to basics that I felt at the time would usurp us and dominate English football. Compact defensive unit that can counter like lightning. Chelsea really scare me.

Arsenal have got the bit between their teeth this year. The funds at the club are starting to become available. Which means they will be able to compete for big players. This season was a waking of the sleeping giant imo. And they are right back in the mix.

Liverpool, are making steady progress. They arn't title contenders yet for me, but if they get back into the CL, big players will go to Anfield again. Solidify their CM and defense they could really mount a title challenge in the next 2 seasons.

Totenham I don't think will get there under Sherwood, but they've a squad that when they organise it, and decide what is what, could and proably will mount a decent challenge.

Everton are going to get bought out. It will happen soon, and with an injection of cash, will be top 4 contenders soon enough. I don't subscribe to themj being nearly rans, they are going to be there or there abouts under Martinez, and would have been under Moyes.


We don't have any right to expect top 4 finishes anymore. The teams behind are catching up, and the teams ahead are mvoing further ahead. This is as big a challenege as has come to the club. Chelsea were the last REAL threat I ever felt was substantial, and when Mourinho left I felt we got away with it big time.
I didn't think City would maintain a consistent threat with Mancini, but they have a guy know who possibly can.

It's not been frquent a league has been so tight, so competitive. Moyes has a monumental tsk ahead. But to deal with it, to give it a shot, he needs to have hungry players. PLayers who are up for the fight. Too many of the current squad, just arn't read to do it all over again. They arn't ready to prove people wrong, they arn't ready to claw their way to the top again.

This is why I want Moyes to be given time, this is why I want to back him. It's not "just" replacing Ferguson, it's dealing with the rise and threat of clubs that have made their own changes and plans to conquer the premier league. As the season has progresesd, it's become evidently more complex for the manager.

He nees to be given the resources and time to bring in players and build a squad that will be capable and ready to mount a SERIOUS title challenge. We have no right to the top 4, we have no right to the title. We never had. But what we have now, is what's quickly becoming a much more competitive league, and it's no longer a two horse race. If we want to be challenging for titles, competiting in the champions league, this squad needs a facelift.

Giggsy11

FutureGuy wrote: »

All for Van Persie goals too.

2 for RVP and 1 for young. IMO Young's goal shouldn't be counted as assist for Mata.

Julez

No

ON a lighter note, anyone see this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkxSmLo1DDs

Maximus Alexander

Julez wrote: »

ON a lighter note, anyone see this?

Dafuq did I just watch?

beno619

No

TheDoc wrote: »

Rafael's final ball was absolutely terrible yesterday. United were receiving little to no pressure from Fulham and Rfael was playing most of the game as a right winger. Makes sense to replace him with an actual right winger. Valencia obviously is suspect defensively, but he wasn't overly at fault for the goal conceded. I probably would have done the same, or maybe replaced Young with Kagawa, Rafael with Janners, and try something more intricate for the last 25 minutes. But I get why he did it.

How many times has Valencia came on at right back and cost us points this season? It was yet again pointless shuffling of the back four.


Moyes has yet to make an example of a big player. Evra is important to the dressing room ,and Buttner isn't the perfect replacement. I'm sure Evra has been given the opportunity to prove himself to Moyes, which he failed again yesterday. Has to be the last straw, and a decision needs to be made for him to be dropped.

Should have been dropped/replaced months ago.


Fulham were being pretty resilient and fair play to them, Steklenberg made some terrific saves and their hole team defended compact and in their own box.

The saves the keeper made yesterday were fairly bread and butter a lot has been made of them though. Fulham played well but we were awful.


Rooney moving into CM was to accommodate Janners on the wing, by removing Fletcher. Mata moved in central behind RVP. The way the game was flowing it would be reasonable to expect Rooney to play more advanced. Wasn't a horrendous or terrible decision, Fulham were barely getting out of their own half.

Rooney should never play CM its fairly obvious he doesn't enjoy it and we have dropped points the last few games he has.

There is some serious deflection here it sounds like you dont think Moyes could have done anything better yesterday ?

Iused2likebusts

No

Its mad how football can change so quick. There is some rebuilding job required at utd now. I personally think a new RB,CB,LB,CM and 1 or 2 attacking midfielders are required with the guts of 150 million to be spent. The way I see it either rvp or rooney has to go in the summer. Mata needs to play centrally and rooney for me is not creative enough in that position off a front man. I'd sell rvp and play mata behind rooney and look at getting another mata type player in the attacking midfield positions. Lots of people going on about the style of play but at the moment there isnt much of an alternative unless one of rvp or rooney dont play IMO.
A front 4 of
kagawa mata janujaz
RVP or Rooney
Is the best way to go to see a better style. Rooney doesnt want to play wide and mata is better centrally so although a great signing long term, I dont see him making much of a difference short term if moyes persists with his current selections.

Your Airbag

Julez wrote: »

ON a lighter note, anyone see this?

Yes, in context he has been getting a lot of stick for ripping off other peoples ideas and tweets lately and this was his first public appearance since then. Tongue frimly in cheek.

GSPfan

GSPfan wrote: »

The media are being extremely reserved about this whole thing. Any other manager in the World would be in trouble, apart from Bulletproof Moyes.

That celebration yesterday after Carricks Goal sickened me. Not even gonna watch the Arsenal game on Wednesday. I have something else to do that could be easily missed but I'd rather miss the match for my own sanity. Wednesday could be another frustrating mess.

I'd like to understand why it sickened you? I think the man was just relieved (albiet partially) that the goal came.

TheDoc

beno619 wrote: »

Rooney should never play CM its fairly obvious he doesn't enjoy it and we have dropped points the last few games he has.

There is some serious deflection here it sounds like you dont think Moyes could have done anything better yesterday ?

we bombarded a team that came to Ot to play 4-6-0 and at times 6-4-0.

We missed three pretty much guilt edge chances. Our defence made two lapses from three Fulham attacks, two ended up being goals.
We got in positions of threat out wide over 60 times, and sent in rarely a threatening ball, and when we did, at times we only had RVP and Rooney in the box.

I've no problem admitting that maybe the play needed some variety, but at the same time, with what unfolded yesterday, I'd expect the team to comfortably win that game 9 times out of 10.

Just comes from a lack of confidence and belief at the moment. If that happened yesterday, coming of a winning run of a few games, no doubts that game would have been over by half time.

What alternatives are being provided as a matter of interest for yesterday. I've seen mention of a 4-2-3-1 with Mata, Rooney and Janners, Kagawa playing behind RVP. That sounds a decent alternative, but then again putting in a system and formation yet to be used. could easily have been ineffective.

What alternatives and different decisions would others have made? Not being passive aggressive, interested to hear.

Personally would have removed Young for Kawaga, and moved to a 4-2-3-1, with Kagawa, Mata and Rooney in behind RVP, play some linkup play to try force Fulham out of their comfortable defensive positions, after the bombardment from the wings wasn't working.

Then again that's me being an armchair coach, not factoring in the formation and system never been tried and could easily have been incoherent.I felt during the match yesterday it was only a matter of time before we got ahead. I genuinelly didnt see anything but us winning, which is why I guess the last gasp equaliser was soul destroying. So can understand why Moyes persisted, I'd assume he thought eventually our current champions would send in a half decent cross, that someone could put in the net.

beno619

No

TheDoc wrote: »

This is why I want Moyes to be given time, this is why I want to back him. It's not "just" replacing Ferguson, it's dealing with the rise and threat of clubs that have made their own changes and plans to conquer the premier league. As the season has progresesd, it's become evidently more complex for the manager.

Moyes should be given time because new managers have improved their sides, while we have declined with a new man in charge ?

Again if we had some philosophy or were trying to play something that resembled football I think Moyes could be forgiven for what has been an awful season but things are just getting worse, with more rumblings of discontent in the squad and performances declining.

mitosis

Leftist wrote: »

United don't sack managers.

except O'farrell, Doc, Sexton and Big Ron. :rolleyes:

What, four of the last five? :eek:

Call Me Jimmy

I have a somewhat interesting theory on Evra.

I think Moyes came in, noticed that Evra is the big personality, the most feared/liked in the dressing room, essentially, although I hate the term generally, the 'alpha' guy. Moyes took the easy route of sucking up to Evra from the start, playing nice to him, rather than challenge him and risking pissing him off and he starting an undercurrent of dissent.

Any time I've read or heard anything about the dressing room, Evra seems to be front and center.

Speculative, but it makes sense to me why Evra has got it so easy this season (aside from the fact that Buttner is the only real backup), and why the players don't appear to have much faith or respect for Moyes.