Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod Warning: Post #7871

DeanAustin

Royal Legend wrote: »

Yes I do, what did he achieve in your opinion exactly? Smoke and mirrors and palsy with the FA. Achieved F all in Italy, his only success was in Scandanavia, and even then he was not liked, he is an arrogant, classless little man. He was completely out of his depth with Liverpool. I am sure he has already wrote a book of excuses for Brazil in the summer.
His list of excuses are endless, at least Moyes is fronting up, whereas Hodgson always sets his sights low.

I do not see the same with Moyes just yet, give him time and I think he will get it right. Can he make the step up to build a PL winning team, that remains to be seen, but I have no doubt that with investment in the summer, Utd will challenge next season.

Okay, firstly, it doesn't matter if he was liked. Lots of successful managers aren't liked.

Secondly, he had a lot of success in Sweden.

He also qualified Switzerland for their first major tournament in 30 years from a group including Italy and Portugal losing only one of ten games. He then qualified them for Euro 96 by winning the group.

He took Inter from the bottom of Serie A to European football and a third placed finish the following year while also making the UEFA Cup final. He was very highly spoken of by the chairman.

He won the league in Denmark with Copenhagen who were a mid table team when he took over.

He got Finland as close to qualifying for a major tournament as they've been in recent memory.

He kept Fulham up when they were certs to go down. He guided them to their highest ever finish and a UEFA Cup Final. He was voted by his peers as the best manager in the league in 2010.

He did a good job with West Brom and he's done reasonably well with England so far.

There have been some patchy elements to his CV but to label him "a complete clown" is the sort of extremism that too many football fans are guilty of these days.

He's a very good manager.

TheDoc

beno619 wrote: »

Moyes should be given time because new managers have improved their sides, while we have declined with a new man in charge ?

Again if we had some philosophy or were trying to play something that resembled football I think Moyes could be forgiven for what has been an awful season but things are just getting worse, with more rumblings of discontent in the squad and performances declining.

Would it put peoples mind at ease if he openly and candidly outlined his plan and vision. And why maybe he has been unable to implement it thus far?

It's a possability, and something I've wondered myself. But I get the feeling that if he did it, he'd come accross as blaming the current squad, which will be no constructive use when hes trying to get something out of a deflated team.

Maybe its worth him having a punt. He might feel something is missing from the puzzle, but maybe he should just have a go. Show us the framework of what he wants to achieve.

For example if I saw a lineup that was essentially trying to be possession based and intricute, but falling short because of certain personal, I'd be happy enough to say " ok I see what he wants to do, and I see why he cant do it".

I do agree that it's difficult to ascertain what direction he is trying to go. I get the impression he has decided he can't do it with the current squad, is trying things to grind results, and is waiting until the summer to bring in specific players he feels will fit into his vision.

beno619

No

TheDoc wrote: »

What alternatives are being provided as a matter of interest for yesterday. I've seen mention of a 4-2-3-1 with Mata, Rooney and Janners, Kagawa playing behind RVP. That sounds a decent alternative, but then again putting in a system and formation yet to be used. could easily have been ineffective.

What alternatives and different decisions would others have made? Not being passive aggressive, interested to hear.

Personally would have removed Young for Kawaga, and moved to a 4-2-3-1, with Kagawa, Mata and Rooney in behind RVP, play some linkup play to try force Fulham out of their comfortable defensive positions, after the bombardment from the wings wasn't working.

Then again that's me being an armchair coach, not factoring in the formation and system never been tried and could easily have been incoherent.I felt during the match yesterday it was only a matter of time before we got ahead. I genuinelly didnt see anything but us winning, which is why I guess the last gasp equaliser was soul destroying

I would play a similar team to what you described ,No Evra and the three in the middle varying. Yesterday was the perfect chance to experiment.

Its criminal for the like of RVP, Rooney and Mata to be instructed to play football in that manner.

We were playing Fulham at home a team that hadnt scored in 5 hours of football.

Moyes has bottled most of the big decisions this season, he has failed to put out a decent side that have gone into games with the right approach more times than I can count.

Treatment of Chicha, Hernandez, Anderson, Buttner, Fabio is disgraceful.
Indulging Evra and Valencia.

Its incredible how much he's gotten wrong in such a short space of time.

Backstreet Moyes

On a positive note it was nice to see Carrick allowed to be more creative yesterday. His passing range is very good he really is a good all round player. Hopefully if Fellaini is back he can shield the back four and allow Carrick to be more creative.

Cantona's Collars

RAI Sport reporting that Vidic has agreed a 2 year deal with Inter & the option for a 3rd season.

Backstreet Moyes

beno619 wrote: »

Treatment of Chicha, Hernandez, Anderson, Buttner, Fabio is disgraceful.
Indulging Evra and Valencia.

I don't see the need to mention Hernandez twice. He has got chances this season but has shown little all season.

Anderson, Buttner and Fabio got around the same amount of games under Fergie last season.

Leftist

No

TheDoc wrote: »

I stopped here.

I'm not going to be a smartarse or offensive in anyway, but I think your post sort of sum's up the sort of poor level of critism Moyes is receiving that I don't believe is fair. There are a lot of things that are indefensiveable that he has down or will do, but when your calling for the managers head or going to give him flack, we need to be objective and base it of indisputable evidence and facts.

Fellaini was bought as a DM. If you thought he was buying Fellaini to play as a target man, to be coupled with crosses from Baines, I think your only familiar with Fellaini from the last 18 months, which is somewhat understandable considering it's where only most people took notice of him. When he was moved forward as an auxiliary no.10.

Again I'm not being a smart arse, but your forming an opinion on the manager, from incorrect assumptions from your own end.

was he? at the time that is what I assumed too.

but most importantly, we will see if that is how he will be used.

We already see what moyes' design is.

if you think it's beyond crossing it in, you are completely wrong and deluded.

you can nit pick one comment here, one comment there to 'sum up' the supporters who want moyes gone. All you like.
If you want to be honest, and pragmatic and see what is in front of you, based on results and statistics and the horrific gruel that is the football moyes's side has been set up to play, you will see it's the responsibility of the management and his staff.
Evra and Vidic have not put united in the position we are in today.

so don't talk to me about incorrect assumptions.

spiralism

No

I've said it before and i'll say it again about Moyes, the man has gotta go.

Talk of letting him stay so he can properly make his mark, im beginning to think he's making it with the football becoming progressively worse and the results along with it. As things stand i'm doubtful we get a Europa league spot, it's that bad.

The club is literally ****ing lifeless at the minute. It's February and there's **** all apart from making a run in Europe to look good and i'm not too sure we'll even turn over Olympiakos at this rate. At any rate i'm not sure whether or not it'd be worse than a severe humiliation against Europe's elite in a subsequent round. We're out of everything and top 4 is out of the question. The football resembles Tony Pulis's stoke with our squad. Despite spending nearly 70 million and signing Juan Mata. If anyone said that would be the case last august they'd be laughed at.

We look flat and demoralised, the results are progressively worsening, Moyes himself looks flustered and out of his depth, keeping him is becoming more and more a point of stubborn refusal to admit a mistake and stubborn refusal on many fans' behalf to admit we ****ed this one up. Well Fergie has made bad choices before, see Eric Djemba-Djemba. His postmatch interview was very telling, another deluded refusal to see the wood from the trees. No we're not unlucky or whatever excuse there is this time, we're ****ing crap and it's on you. Questioning the mentality now of a dressing room that has won far more than he could ever dream of is ridiculous and he could even lose the dressing room with **** like that if he's not careful.

Cantona's Collars

To say it is disappointing is an understatement. It's devastating more than anything. The variety in their play wasn't there. It was all about crossing the ball. You don't put that many crosses in without thinking to yourself whether there is anything else because that hasn't worked that well. Can you start manipulating the ball? Can you start playing those little give-and-goes to try to make Fulham do something different?

--Mike Phelan

To think so many thought Phelan was just the guy who put out the cones for Fergie.Was there nobody on the touchline to point out the obvious to Moyes?

keeponhurling

No

On the Valencia thing, in fairness to Moyes, he threw him and Hernandez on when they were 0-1 down and had to just go for it.
When they did get to 2-1 ahead, they had no subs left so naturally left Valencia at full back. They couldn't put Rafael back on again.

It's not his natural position, but he does often get put there at the end of matches, so it might be worth giving him a bit more coaching.
Phil Neville was a full back so may be the man for this

TheDoc

beno619 wrote: »

I would play a similar team to what you described ,No Evra and the three in the middle varying. Yesterday was the perfect chance to experiment.

Its criminal for the like of RVP, Rooney and Mata to be instructed to play football in that manner.

We were playing Fulham at home a team that hadnt scored in 5 hours of football.

Moyes has bottled most of the big decisions this season, he has failed to put out a decent side that have gone into games with the right approach more times than I can count.

Treatment of Chicha, Hernandez, Anderson, Buttner, Fabio is disgraceful.
Indulging Evra and Valencia.

Its incredible how much he's gotten wrong in such a short space of time.

OK, but to ask, do what? What side should be put out there, and what should they instructed to do?
Let's get specific here. I know we arn't premier league managers, but we are questioning the decisions made by one, let's have specifics here.

I'm not putting you on the spot, but if we take yesterday as an idolated example. What would you have done? There is no right or wrong answer, I just see so much critique but nothing specific. Lets get specific and debate the merits of it.


In terms of the players he treated disgracefully

Hernandez
Get's alot of love and I get why. But his general play and ability to linkup play is generally poor. Most times he starts he is utterly ineffective. He is an impact player, unless he quickly learns how to play outside the box.

Anderson
Not having it. Has leeched massive wages from the club for sproadic cameo appearances. Clearly doesn't look after himself personally, the only reason there is for a player to be consistently injured.
Appreciate that he probably has never had the chance to develop with injuries, and when injury free has done well, but has horrendous stamina and should have been removed from the club a while ago

Buttner
He isnt the finished article. I have alot of time for him because he has some good qualities, but needs to learn the positional sense of defending. I can see why he isn't overly played, but think now he needs to get inclusion

Fabio.
Don't get the love here. Hasn't developed at the same rate as his borther. His times on loan has been shockingly exposed as a somewhat average full back, and has alot to learn. Debatable if he will learn. I remember when he went to QPR I watched his first two appearances he got demolished. Didn't play again
Saw him for Cardiff there against Swansea and was pretty woeful again. Sorry but not buying he got a rough ride, simply didn't appear good enough

Call Me Jimmy

zerks wrote: »

--Mike Phelan

To think so many thought Phelan was just the guy who put out the cones for Fergie.Was there nobody on the touchline to point out the obvious to Moyes?

Does Phil Neville look a bit of a yes man to anyone else?

keeponhurling

No

Nuts102 wrote: »

I don't see the need to mention Hernandez twice. He has got chances this season but has shown little all season.

Anderson, Buttner and Fabio got around the same amount of games under Fergie last season.

Buttner and Fabio are not up to it, in my opinion.

Problem is that despite Moyes recognising left back as somewhere that needs strengthening, he has let two transfer windows pass by, with inaction on this front.

OK, he did sign some Uruguayan guy called Guillermo Varela, but he has appeared even less than Fellaini. And he is a right back.
Anyone know if he is any good?

Mitch Connor

No

I don't understand why our tactics dictate Evra, Young and Valencia are our key players, and don't utilize the abilities of RVP, Rooney, Januzaj, Mata, Kagawa.

It is the most painful part of Moyes' reign. I want him to do well, as it means United do well, but I just can't understand a single part of his management of United. The guy isn't an idiot, so I just can't work out how he is getting it so wrong, so obviously, so consistently.

Cantona's Collars

Call Me Jimmy wrote: »

Does Phil Neville look a bit of a FAS man to anyone else?

FYP.

Lord TSC

No

Can't disagree more on the idea that Chico is poor. This season, I have felt his link up play has improved dramatically, including his passing.

His problem comes from the fact he is constantly isolated and often throw on at the end of games when the rest of the team has been told to sit back and don't try too hard to score. He isn't a good target man for hoofball.

Demosthenese

No

Being too harsh here on Moysie, he played the 11 that most would have pre-game. He set them out to do their job and after 60 minutes they came back empty handed. Is that his fault? Is it his staff's fault?

Rooney/RVP/Mata all on the same pitch and they fail to break down the worst defence in the league. So we are claiming Moyes hasn't a clue and cannot manage but somehow he does get 11 players to play his style, his way, random crosses for 70 minutes with no other variation on the play? Not one player decides, hold on a second, lets NOT hack aimless crosses into the box to nobody time after time? these are seasoned international players - how much could it kill them to take some responsibility on their own shoulders and actually do what they are paid to do and think for themselves.

Only reason to sack a manager is when he loses the dressingroom completely. It doesn't quite seem like that yet. Pre-season everyone was singing from the same sheet saying he needs time to build his own team and to stamp his mark on the team. To do that he needs a year in charge and to get rid of the dead weight that is clearly dragging the team down. Evra/Rio/Vidic/Anderson/Nani/Young/Valencia/Smalling ... that is alot of work to offload and rebuild.

It is no coincidence that everyone is calling for Evra's head here today cos everyone knows what his antics are like when things do not go well. He should have been first to be chopped. The man needs another year in charge, to see what he is really made of.

keeponhurling

No

Demosthenese wrote: »

Being too harsh here on Moysie, he played the 11 that most would have pre-game. .

Don't think many would have selected Ashley Young

ericzeking

beno619 wrote: »

Yes when this carry on happens for a whole season its Moyes fault.

1Why did Valencia finish the game at RB ?

2Why was Evra in the starting line up ?

3Why did we finish a game that should have been a walk in the park with 7 forwards on the pitch including Rooney in CM. Its an absolute circus.

1 Because rafael was playing like a winger, had acres of space and we needed more attacking quality in that position, Valencia actually did well in an attacking sense, fizzed one cracking ball across the box

2 I kind of agree with this but the answer to your question is because the alternative is not very good at all.

3 Because we needed 2 goals (which we got). Simples.

The man gets it in the neck no matter what he does, is he too defensive or too attacking?...from what I'm reading the anti-Moyes side can't seem to decide...they just want the team to win and they don't really care about much else, if we don't win....sack Moyes seems to be the solution.

bucketybuck

No

Demosthenese wrote: »

Rooney/RVP/Mata all on the same pitch and they fail to break down the worst defence in the league. So we are claiming Moyes hasn't a clue and cannot manage but somehow he does get 11 players to play his style, his way, random crosses for 70 minutes with no other variation on the play? Not one player decides, hold on a second, lets NOT hack aimless crosses into the box to nobody time after time? these are seasoned international players - how much could it kill them to take some responsibility on their own shoulders and actually do what they are paid to do and think for themselves.

You really need to stop and think here about why Rooney/RVP and Mata were hacking those aimless crosses into the box, because these seasoned international players can indeed think for themselves.

Cantona's Collars

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Can't disagree more on the idea that Chico is poor. This season, I have felt his link up play has improved dramatically, including his passing.

His problem comes from the fact he is constantly isolated and often throw on at the end of games when the rest of the team has been told to sit back and don't try too hard to score. He isn't a good target man for hoofball.

Sell Chico,buy Andy Carroll.Problem solved.:(

ericzeking

keeponhurling wrote: »

Don't think many would have selected Ashley Young

Young has been playing well lately and we needed to stop flogging Adnan to death, hence his stint on the bench. Good handling of a young talent if you ask me.

Kagawa, maybe...but I think he will be on his way in the summer, class player but not fitting in and adapting to the PL or doing it regularly enough for us.

beno619

No

Nuts102 wrote: »

I don't see the need to mention Hernandez twice. He has got chances this season but has shown little all season.

Anderson, Buttner and Fabio got around the same amount of games under Fergie last season.

Haha didnt mean to include Chicha twice.He didnt feature at all for the first 2 months on the season and has fed on crap, RVP has looked poor this season and goal poacher would struggle under Moyes. Come to think of it Moyes has a history of failed forwards under his name that have otherwise performed well at other clubs.

Anderson featured much more and was instumental in some of our better performances last year.

Buttner played a similar number of games but Evra wasnt as poor as he has been this year.

Fabio wasn't at the club last season

tallaghtmick

No

zerks wrote: »

Sell Chico,buy Andy Carroll.Problem solved.:(

Nah nah nah stick Fellaini up there, 81 crosses with him up front we would win by 10

spiralism

No

Demosthenese wrote: »

Being too harsh here on Moysie, he played the 11 that most would have pre-game. He set them out to do their job and after 60 minutes they came back empty handed. Is that his fault? Is it his staff's fault?

Rooney/RVP/Mata all on the same pitch and they fail to break down the worst defence in the league. So we are claiming Moyes hasn't a clue and cannot manage but somehow he does get 11 players to play his style, his way, random crosses for 70 minutes with no other variation on the play? Not one player decides, hold on a second, lets NOT hack aimless crosses into the box to nobody time after time? these are seasoned international players - how much could it kill them to take some responsibility on their own shoulders and actually do what they are paid to do and think for themselves.

Only reason to sack a manager is when he loses the dressingroom completely. It doesn't quite seem like that yet. Pre-season everyone was singing from the same sheet saying he needs time to build his own team and to stamp his mark on the team. To do that he needs a year in charge and to get rid of the dead weight that is clearly dragging the team down. Evra/Rio/Vidic/Anderson/Nani/Young/Valencia/Smalling ... that is alot of work to offload and rebuild.

It is no coincidence that everyone is calling for Evra's head here today cos everyone knows what his antics are like when things do not go well. He should have been first to be chopped. The man needs another year in charge, to see what he is really made of.

Calling a squad that has won everything out and saying they lack a winning mentality is putting himself on a fast track to do exactly that.

Yeah everyone was saying that then but results have progressively worsened, i'd argue he's stamping his mark on the team with the football becoming dourer and the results progressively worsening

Cantona's Collars

tallaghtmick wrote: »

Nah nah nah stick Fellaini up there, 81 crosses with him up front we would win by 10

dixiefly

The draw yesterday was like a defeat in many ways. As a one off it should not make the club panic. However when it is coupled with the other losses and the way the team are playing then, for the first time, I am beginning to think that Moyes could be in trouble.

Remember the decision makers at Old Trafford are the Glaziers not Ferguson. Thankfully they are not as trigger happy as other owners but I think a bad defeat to Arsenal this week could be the catalyst for change in the shorter term.

I was thinking this morning about our backroom staff. Much less experienced than Ferguson had for many of his years. Irionically the Republic of Ireland have a stronger & more experienced management team than United.

If people here were given a choice of O'Neill / Keane instead of Moyes / Steve Round for the rest of this season and the next what would you choose? I think I would pick O'Neill / Keane.

ericzeking

The stuff that floats about my head at times...

Since the universal opinion seems to be that Evra needs immediate replacing, here's a Wild notion....could we convert someone into a left back? How about Cleverley...remember that season Flamini played left back for Arsenal, he was immense and the following year he went on to play exceptionally in the middle of the park to get the move to Milan.

Would playing regularly in a position with less responsibility bring TC23 on? Has the engine to get up and down, can be agressive and can cross a ball....

Mad...I know

stooge

Moyes took on a mammoth task of replacing ferguson, starting with a new backroom team, a new VC and a squad with certain deficiencies in key areas. For that I have some respect for him and some sympathy.

I dont think sacking him is the best thing at this point in the season. Maybe getting in a senior coach to help him out and to provide a different viewpoint/opinion would be better for the rest of the season(and then take it from there).

Round is a bit of an unknown to me. P.Nev and Giggs are new to the coaching game and relatively 'pally' with the players. Having that sort of a mix with a squad full of egos (ferdinand, evra, rooney, RVP) is not a good mix. It breeds contempt and apathy. Getting a senior coach/ or one with more authority would get the players focussed more on their training and games. Simple things yesterday like not tracking players(fletcher) and not covering space(evra) are schoolboy errors any good coach can point out.

Despite all this, I do feel that his tactical and management capabilities are somewhat limited. His philosophy has always been to keep games tight and get crosses in the box. Having such ridgid tactics is a recipe for disaster as Rene pointed out in his PM conference. Hopefully with Mata and possibly a few other signings this 'get a cross in at all costs' tactic may change.

Backstreet Moyes

beno619 wrote: »

Haha didnt mean to include Chicha twice.He didnt feature at all for the first 2 months on the season and has fed on crap, RVP has looked poor this season and goal poacher would struggle under Moyes. Come to think of it Moyes has a history of failed forwards under his name that have otherwise performed well at other clubs.

Anderson featured much more and was instumental in some of our better performances last year.

Buttner played a similar number of games but Evra wasnt as poor as he has been this year.

Fabio wasn't at the club last season

Who are these forwards that performed at other clubs?

SlickRic

Mitch Connor wrote: »

It is the most painful part of Moyes' reign. I want him to do well, as it means United do well, but I just can't understand a single part of his management of United. The guy isn't an idiot, so I just can't work out how he is getting it so wrong, so obviously, so consistently.

because I think he honestly believes it's down to luck.

the thing he stubbornly won't accept is that he shouldn't really be relying on luck.

thegreengoblin

Call Me Jimmy wrote: »

Does Phil Neville look a bit of a yes man to anyone else?

I was just coming on here to mention the exact same thing. He reminds me of Phil Neal in that Graham Taylor documentary.

I'm a United fan since 1981, and I can't ever remember the team playing such awful football. Up until the last couple of weeks I was more than happy to just kick back, let the season unfold and if we don't do well then so be it. We've had so many years of success with empty-handed seasons scattered among it all that another one isn't going to make a huge difference. Especially as this is a transitional time for the club.

However...I can rarely remember being so angry watching United as I was at the moment Bent's goal went in. I have a few opinions on all of this.

1. The major problem for me stems from the transfer window disaster of last summer. Had Mourinho or another big name come in, would he have ended up buying Fellaini and no one else? Not a hope. I'm not privy to the inside workings of the club but surely...surely...at least three world class players should have been bought to begin the rebuilding job. They would have fired up the team, got players playing their guts out for their places, which is an absolute must for any team looking to win titles.

2. The attitude of certain players stinks. Evra is the obvious example. There are times when I want to kick the TV in when I see his half-arsed efforts at running back to help his team. Thanks for all your efforts a few years back but just leave now. I can't believe I just read a few posts ago that Anderson has been treated badly! So glad he's gone. Rafael needs to cop on and start realising that stupid rash tackles are not a sign of your commitment, they are a sign of immaturity.

3. Moyes should be ashamed of those crossing stats from yesterday. It was beyond a joke. Can he not see what everyone else can clearly see?! As for his ridiculous celebration for Carrick's goal..against Fulham! That just summed up his desperation. Having said that, he can't be blamed for the goals, which were just down to appalling defending.

4. Keeping Vidic on as captain and playing him....wtf is that about? He's leaving in a few months! He doesn't want to stay at the club, leave him on the bench. He's been a fantastic servant to the club but he doesn't want to play for United anymore so don't play him.

5. Regardless of this not being 'his' team, Moyes just doesn't appear to have any idea of how to handle world class players, what system to utilise them fully. If he buys world class players in the summer what makes us sure he's going to know how to use them? I hope I'm wrong about him, I really do. But this is going from bad to worse to worse again. The team can't keep shipping so many bad goals, so many points. It's truly agonising to watch it happen.

I knew this season would be a tough one and I was ready for it, and I was relishing a good old battle. But we had a right not to expect it to be this bad. I'm really concerned that all of this is damaging the club.

United we stand!

DeanAustin

Nuts102 wrote: »

Who are these forwards that performed at other clubs?

Don't necessarily agree with the point but I'm guessing people like:

Andy Johnson
James Beattie
Jermaine Beckford

keeponhurling

No

ericzeking wrote: »

Young has been playing well lately and we needed to stop flogging Adnan to death, hence his stint on the bench. Good handling of a young talent if you ask me.

Kagawa, maybe...but I think he will be on his way in the summer, class player but not fitting in and adapting to the PL or doing it regularly enough for us.

I do take your point about protecting Adnan, however no matter what the question is, Ashley Young should not be the answer.

On the left, maybe Giggs or Welbeck? Not sure if Nani is still injured or not.

Maximus Alexander

Some of the criticism is beyond the pale at this stage. The manager celebrates goals too much? Give me a break.

spiralism

No

keeponhurling wrote: »

I do take your point about protecting Adnan, however no matter what the question is, Ashley Young should not be the answer.

On the left, maybe Giggs or Welbeck? Not sure if Nani is still injured or not.

If we're seeing Ashley Young as the answer i'm worried about what the question is tbh

tallaghtmick

No

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Some of the criticism is beyond the pale at this stage. The manager celebrates goals too much? Give me a break.

My facebook was full of Pool fans gloating about it saying how desperate it is yet say nothing about Rooney going mental.

keeponhurling

No

thegreengoblin wrote: »

4. Keeping Vidic on as captain and playing him....wtf is that about? He's leaving in a few months! He doesn't want to stay at the club, leave him on the bench. He's been a fantastic servant to the club but he doesn't want to play for United anymore so don't play him.

!

Not trying to be smart, but maybe he's in there for his goal threat from set-pieces?

The way they play, they do inevitably win a lot of corners.

ericzeking

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Some of the criticism is beyond the pale at this stage. The manager celebrates goals too much? Give me a break.

Sure Fergie used to celebrate goals like a 7 year old child

Maximus Alexander

ericzeking wrote: »

Sure Fergie used to celebrate goals like a 7 year old child

Sometimes he'd nearly look like he was having a seizure he was that excited.

Maximus Alexander

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Sometimes he'd nearly look like he was having a seizure he was that excited.

I asked this question already, and rightly so he should get excited. At least it shows a bit of passion.

beno619

No

TheDoc wrote: »

OK, but to ask, do what? What side should be put out there, and what should they instructed to do?
Let's get specific here. I know we arn't premier league managers, but we are questioning the decisions made by one, let's have specifics here.

I'm not putting you on the spot, but if we take yesterday as an idolated example. What would you have done? There is no right or wrong answer, I just see so much critique but nothing specific. Lets get specific and debate the merits of it.

We have to try and pass the ball we did for 30 mins against Stoke untill things fell apart, Mata on the right is a waste. Our goals came through the middle yesterday not crosses.


In terms of the players he treated disgracefully

Hernandez
Get's alot of love and I get why. But his general play and ability to linkup play is generally poor. Most times he starts he is utterly ineffective. He is an impact player, unless he quickly learns how to play outside the box.

He's just a player ruined by Moyes, has been fantastic and started a CL final vs Barcelona on merit

Anderson
Not having it. Has leeched massive wages from the club for sproadic cameo appearances. Clearly doesn't look after himself personally, the only reason there is for a player to be consistently injured.
Appreciate that he probably has never had the chance to develop with injuries, and when injury free has done well, but has horrendous stamina and should have been removed from the club a while ago

Regardless of how people assess his fitness, he was a viable option earlier in the season when Cleverley was clocking up a lot of game time. Would also play him ahead of Giggs and Jones so would Fergie

Buttner
He isnt the finished article. I have alot of time for him because he has some good qualities, but needs to learn the positional sense of defending. I can see why he isn't overly played, but think now he needs to get inclusion

Evra is so poor he should get a chance regardless of perceived ability he will at least try

Fabio.
Don't get the love here. Hasn't developed at the same rate as his borther. His times on loan has been shockingly exposed as a somewhat average full back, and has alot to learn. Debatable if he will learn. I remember when he went to QPR I watched his first two appearances he got demolished. Didn't play again
Saw him for Cardiff there against Swansea and was pretty woeful again. Sorry but not buying he got a rough ride, simply didn't appear good enough

Same as above and also a viable RB. He was very impressive when given a run in the United side.
Did any QPR player look impressive last season ? He was very good on his debut according to Ole.

keeponhurling

No

more analysis of the match yesterday....

Fulham defender Dan Burn admits he hadn't had to deal with as many crosses as he did against Manchester United on Sunday since his days in the Conference.

The 6ft 7ins centre-back was at the heart of a Fulham defence that cleared 81 crosses during the Old Trafford match, with neither of United's goals in the 2-2 draw coming from one of them.

Burn himself made the clearance on 22 occasions with pundits questioning why Moyes constantly attacked the heart of a team with such a height advantage.

The youngster, who learned his trade in non-league football with Darlington, said: "I've never headed that many balls since the Conference.

beno619

No

DeanAustin wrote: »

Don't necessarily agree with the point but I'm guessing people like:

Andy Johnson
James Beattie
Jermaine Beckford

+ Yakubu,Saha who was coming to the end of his career, Jevelic steadily declined under Moyes after looking great when he first arrived.

tallaghtmick

No

keeponhurling wrote: »

more analysis of the match yesterday....

Fulham defender Dan Burn admits he hadn't had to deal with as many crosses as he did against Manchester United on Sunday since his days in the Conference.

The 6ft 7ins centre-back was at the heart of a Fulham defence that cleared 81 crosses during the Old Trafford match, with neither of United's goals in the 2-2 draw coming from one of them.

Burn himself made the clearance on 22 occasions with pundits questioning why Moyes constantly attacked the heart of a team with such a height advantage.

The youngster, who learned his trade in non-league football with Darlington, said: "I've never headed that many balls since the Conference.

Ouch! That and Rene yesterday really shows how bad or one dimensional we are.

Vanolder

tallaghtmick wrote: »

Ouch!

That's a proper mugging off from Burn.

Richard Hillman

No

Vanolder wrote: »

That's a proper mugging off from Burn.

More like

FutureGuy

keeponhurling wrote: »

more analysis of the match yesterday....

Fulham defender Dan Burn admits he hadn't had to deal with as many crosses as he did against Manchester United on Sunday since his days in the Conference.

The 6ft 7ins centre-back was at the heart of a Fulham defence that cleared 81 crosses during the Old Trafford match, with neither of United's goals in the 2-2 draw coming from one of them.

Burn himself made the clearance on 22 occasions with pundits questioning why Moyes constantly attacked the heart of a team with such a height advantage.

The youngster, who learned his trade in non-league football with Darlington, said: "I've never headed that many balls since the Conference.

Burn!!!

tallaghtmick

No

Vanolder wrote: »

That's a proper mugging off from Burn.

FutureGuy wrote: »

Burn!!!

IamtheWalrus

Fulham seem to be taking a lot of joy out of belittling Utd's tactics. If they concentrated on their own failings they mightened be in the mess they're in.