Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod Warning: Post #7871

Your Airbag

beno619 wrote: »

Sorry we drew to Fulham, it didnt work if we won 2-1 complaints would be just as bad imo. We needed to score 5 without reply to justify that kind of football.

Like I said in terms of getting goals against a team parking the bus, it worked, which it did, we scored twice and at the 94th minute mark that was enough. Cue brain farts from Vidic and Evra.

Agreed, even 2-1 would have been poor. Maybe with some quality composed crossing we would have had some more and our defense concentrating harder.

Whats done is done and hopefully we won't see it to that level again as other team won't as be ultra defensive as Fulham and there will be gaps to exploit.

SherlockWatson

More or better crossing was not the answer.

Keeping the ball on the ground and playing to the strengths of three of the best players in the league, would have been the answer.

TheDoc

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

18 out of 82 successful.

Says it all really, the quality of the final ball was horrendous. In most cases the players werent even being hard pressed when making the crosses.

Pro. F

No

Your Airbag wrote: »

Rubbish of the highest order. Fulham were set up defensively very well. To ignore how well they defend and waited for the counter is ignorance. People calling them negative and anti football looked just as foolish.

Fulham defended well and countered excellently. They could have had three goals on the counter.

As it being a joke Moyes can't lead them them to a victory, yes its a terrible result but the crossing until we get through worked, it was shocking individual errors that cost us and in the 5th minute of injury time too.

People slated Chelsea after they defeated Barca in the UCL semi final for high defensive and countering football which they claimed lack any skill and tactical know how. Those people were clowns too.

Fulham were not set up defensively well. They were falling back to their own six yard line when the ball was 30-40 yards out. They were falling back to their own goal line when the ball was 20 yards out!

I didn't call Fulham negative or anti-football so what the fúck does what other people called them have to do with my post? And what the does Chelsea parking the bus vs Barca have to do with this?

Also lol at the idea that scoring two goals against a team defending that badly is considered proof of an attacking plan working for United.

Edit: Also lol at you trying to blame the result on defensive errors yet ignoring the fact that Moyes has not managed to replace Evra after two transfer windows and massive funding from the suits.

user2011

No

Michael Keane 1-0

Nice wee turn and shot from the edge of the box.

Pro. F

No

TheDoc wrote: »

Says it all really, the quality of the final ball was horrendous. In most cases the players werent even being hard pressed when making the crosses.

Play Evra, Young on the left, Mata on the right cutting in and replace Rafael with Valencia and you should expect shít crosses. It's simple stuff.

wonderfullife

No

Pro. F wrote: »

Fulham were not set up defensively well. They were falling back to their own six yard line when the ball was 30-40 yards out. They were falling back to their own goal line when the ball was 20 yards out!

I didn't call Fulham negative or anti-football so what the fúck does what other people called them have to do with my post? And what the does Chelsea parking the bus vs Barca have to do with this?

Also lol at the idea that scoring two goals against a team defending that badly is considered proof of an attacking plan working for United.

Defending from the 6 yard line is, ordinarily, not being set up defensively well.

However - if you know the opposition will insist on shifting it wide and crossing it to death, then it's absolutely a good defensive set-up. There's no point holding a high line leaving space in behind. Because when they shift it wide it means you're running back towards your own goal to clear the crosses.

I.e. In short, if you defend that deep at least you are facing the play and can see ball and man in your eyeline. Easy to defend against crosses that way. Not so easy when running backwards from a high line.

So i'd disagree. They set up defensively well because they did their homework and knew Moyes is a one-trick-pony obsessed with crossing.

If, and it's a big IF, Moyes had any tactical nouse he'd have told the players to play through the middle. Draw the defenders out of their deep defensive line. All it takes is the likes of Mata to beat a midfielder with a trick or a feint or a drop of shoulder and the likes of Burn and Heitinga would be drawn out of their line , creating space.

If Moyes wasn't so inept , Fulhams setup would have been asking to be demolished.

As it stood, Rene did really well and had them set up perfectly to defend aerial bombardment from wide.

Your Airbag

Pro. F wrote: »

Fulham were not set up defensively well. They were falling back to their own six yard line when the ball was 30-40 yards out. They were falling back to their own goal line when the ball was 20 yards out!

I didn't call Fulham negative or anti-football so what the fúck does what other people called them have to do with my post? And what the does Chelsea parking the bus vs Barca have to do with this?

Also lol at the idea that scoring two goals against a team defending that badly is considered proof of an attacking plan working for United.

Fulham fell back deep because they had a good height advantage with their CB's and 8 players to join them. How you mention them doing this continually as bad defending when it was an obvious tactic is strange. It was their plan.

I never said you called them anti football, i said those who said that looked as foolish as those thinking Fulham defended badly.

They set to defend and counter. They scored as many on the counter as they couldn't defend. Their game plan worked.

Chlesea were called bad for being Ultra defensive against a superior Barca side. You said Fulham defended bad when they were set ultra defensive to counter attack, the similarity is obvious. If you can't see it I can't help that.

We scored twice against a team that had a set defensive plan, whether it was a good or bad one it still worked, it wasn't pretty or attractive or nice to watch but it worked. We scored twice, there is the proof it worked

user2011

No

2-1

Perreia (sp) just smacked a lovely shot in from the corner of the box into the far top corner.. 68 seconds from 1-1 too 2-1

Liam O

If Young and Valencia start on Wednesday I'll be more angry than any time this season. They were embarrassing against City and Chelsea already this season and should never play in the same team again, though I'd be tempted to say never play for the team again altogether.

spiralism

No

I genuinely think that yesterday could have been the most tactically inept performance i've seen by a big team ever. The only thing that even comes close in my mind is Arsenal playing a high line in the Nou Camp four years ago and getting eviscerated by Messi.

We were playing the worst defence in the league and we now have people drawing comparisons from yesterday to what Chelsea did in 2012. Jesus wept.

Your Airbag

Pro. F wrote: »

Edit: Also lol at you trying to blame the result on defensive errors yet ignoring the fact that Moyes has not managed to replace Evra after two transfer windows and massive funding from the suits.

When did I ignore the fact that Evra was not replaced exactly? Show me that post. Won't be easy, it doesn't exist.

I named three players in regards to defensive errors. If Vidic heads the ball clear in the 94th minute and if Carrick wins the ball in MF it doesn't matter what Evra does. If Sidwell was tracked by Rooney the first goal doesn't go in.

If Evra tries to defend or contest the ball with Bent we don't lose. Just because Moyes picks Evra does not absolve Evra of blame, there is nothing stopping Evra from defending.

Vidic is off this summer and we were linked with CB's. Does Vidic not try? No he tried but made mistakes all the same.

Are you going to level its Moyes fault for picking Vidic too?

wonderfullife wrote: »

Defending from the 6 yard line is, ordinarily, not being set up defensively well.

However - if you know the opposition will insist on shifting it wide and crossing it to death, then it's absolutely a good defensive set-up.

Exactly, Fulham knew exactly what they were doing and it worked.

thegreengoblin

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

It wouldn't. All it would take is an unprecedented and miraculous turnaround on United's part. If United won all remaining fixtures they would finish on 80 points and would definitely be in the top 4.

Obviously this isn't going to happen, but your claim is still incorrect. :P

They way this season has gone they wouldn't be far off winning the feckin title! What would make the run-in very interesting is if the following were to happen:

1. United beat Arsenal (not likely), Liverpool beat Fulham (nailed on)

2. United beat Palace (quite possible), Liverpool beat Swansea (very likely)

3. Southampton (h) beat Liverpool (quite possible), United beat West Brom (quite possible)

4. Liverpool beat Sunderland (likely)

5. United beat Liverpool, which would leave us six behind them with a game in hand.

6. Squeaky bum time! (or else my alarm goes off and I wake up)

wonderfullife

No

spiralism wrote: »

I genuinely think that yesterday could have been the most tactically inept performance i've seen by a big team ever. The only thing that even comes close in my mind is Arsenal playing a high line in the Nou Camp four years ago and getting eviscerated by Messi.

We were playing the worst defence in the league and we now have people drawing comparisons from yesterday to what Chelsea did in 2012. Jesus wept.

To be fair to Arsenal (and Wenger) that was more to do with over-confidence in their own ability than ineptitude. They thought they could go to the Nou Camp and go toe-to-toe with Barca at their own game.

What Moyes did was pure out and out ineptitude. If anything a lack of confidence in himself and the players. Showed no trust to let them get out and play. Shift it wide , shift it wide. Keep whacking crosses over and pray the big giraffe of a centre back who is 11 foot 9 tall wont head them clear like swatting flies!! it's bordering on hilarious it's so bad.

bassy

No

For all the folk calling for moyes head,you do realise that the yoda one will still be in charge this time next season.
Fergie will see to that,as he's choice will be given a lot of timeeeeeeeee in the job.

Your Airbag

thegreengoblin wrote: »

They way this season has gone they wouldn't be far off winning the feckin title! What would make the run-in very interesting is if the following were to happen:

1. United beat Arsenal (not likely), Liverpool beat Fulham (nailed on)

2. United beat Palace (quite possible), Liverpool beat Swansea (very likely)

3. Southampton (h) beat Liverpool (quite possible), United beat West Brom (quite possible)

4. Liverpool beat Sunderland (likely)

5. United beat Liverpool, which would leave us six behind them with a game in hand.

6. Squeaky bum time! (or else my alarm goes off and I wake up)

We finish 7th and Liverpool finish 4th

Plot twist, Utd win the UCL

That happening would almost make this worth wile just for the lol's.

ician

No

Zaha just posted a picture of him and Ole on Instagram just now with the caption "Nothing like someone who believes on you.." Can't imagine any of this social media dissent ever happening when ferguson was in charge.

Lord TSC

No

ician wrote: »

Zaha just posted a picture of him and Ole on Instagram just now with the caption "Nothing like someone who believes on you.." Can't imagine any of this social media dissent ever happening when ferguson was in charge.

Youch.

Its All Wright

thegreengoblin wrote: »

They way this season has gone they wouldn't be far off winning the feckin title! What would make the run-in very interesting is if the following were to happen:

1. United beat Arsenal (not likely), Liverpool beat Fulham (nailed on)

2. United beat Palace (quite possible), Liverpool beat Swansea (very likely)

3. Southampton (h) beat Liverpool (quite possible), United beat West Brom (quite possible)

4. Liverpool beat Sunderland (likely)

5. United beat Liverpool, which would leave us six behind them with a game in hand.

6. Squeaky bum time! (or else my alarm goes off and I wake up)

Your forgetting we have Man City to play.....

Rayne Wooney

Its All Wright wrote: »

Your forgetting we have Man City to play.....

They've concede 15 goals from crosses this season

Moyes got this

5-3 United

Its All Wright

ician wrote: »

Zaha just posted a picture of him and Ole on Instagram just now with the caption "Nothing like someone who believes on you.." Can't imagine any of this social media dissent ever happening when ferguson was in charge.

Hernandez done something similar last night...I really dont know where Moyes goes from here, its very difficult to get players back onside. Zaha will want out of United on a permanent basis.

Vidic, Rio, Evra, Hernandez, Zaha & Nani will all go this summer

Mikeyt086

No

ician wrote: »

Zaha just posted a picture of him and Ole on Instagram just now with the caption "Nothing like someone who believes on you.." Can't imagine any of this social media dissent ever happening when ferguson was in charge.

Chazz Michael Michaels

Its All Wright wrote: »

Hernandez done something similar last night...I really dont know where Moyes goes from here, its very difficult to get players back onside. Zaha will want out of United on a permanent basis.

Vidic, Rio, Evra, Hernandez, Zaha & Nani will all go this summer

Seems to be a new name on that list every week.

Its All Wright

Chazz Michael Michaels wrote: »

Seems to be a new name on that list every week.

Ive supported Moyes, defended him for months but ive now realised he has somehow destroyed United in 6 months. Its clear the players dont trust him and dont want to play for him

Fanny Brioscaí

The team selection and tactics will be interesting against Arsenal this week. I am looking forward to Moyes tactics to see if he continues with the 'get it out wide and cross'

Chazz Michael Michaels

Its All Wright wrote: »

Ive supported Moyes, defended him for months but he has destroyed United in 6 months. Its clear the players dont trust him and dont want to play for him

Yup, anyone who's played Football Manager extensively understands that scenario.

thegreengoblin

Its All Wright wrote: »

Your forgetting we have Man City to play.....

Not until March 25th

Its All Wright

thegreengoblin wrote: »

Not until March 25th

Doesnt matter when the game is, we wont be winning it

Saucy McKetchup

No

From paddy powers facebook page

Your Airbag

ician wrote: »

Zaha just posted a picture of him and Ole on Instagram just now with the caption "Nothing like someone who believes on you.." Can't imagine any of this social media dissent ever happening when ferguson was in charge.

Pretty dumb from Zaha.

Whatsisname

No

Really is sickening to see players like Rio, Hernandez and Zaha come out and pull this **** on social media. Rio cares more about his clothing brand than how he actually plays, Zaha came in from a championship team with a big hotshot attitude and expects to start every week and then theres Hernandez, he's leagues behind RVP and Rooney, he should know that. Theres alot to blame Moyes for this season, I'm not his biggest fan. But jesus christ, these players are disgracing themselves.

IamtheWalrus

ician wrote: »

Zaha just posted a picture of him and Ole on Instagram just now with the caption "Nothing like someone who believes on you.." Can't imagine any of this social media dissent ever happening when ferguson was in charge.

If that's the way he's going to behave let him go ta fuck.

Its All Wright

It gets worse, Buttner & Rafael liked Zaha's photo/rant on Instagram...Moyes has a mutiny on his hands

Lord TSC

No

Its All Wright wrote: »

It gets worse, Buttner & Rafael liked Zaha's photo/rant on Instagram...Moyes has a mutiny on his hands

Can't say I wouldn't be happy if it sped up the sacking...

Saucy McKetchup

No

Its All Wright wrote: »

It gets worse, Buttner & Rafael liked Zaha's photo/rant on Instagram...Moyes has a mutiny on his hands

Just had a look there, he must have deleted the caption

beno619

No

Ha the criticism of Chicha for his post last night is over the top. He said he won't open his mouth about anything untill he has left the club.

Moyes has mismanaged many a player this year and alienated most of the squad/fringe players.

Personally I would prefer Moyes left than half the squad which won the premier league last year. I honestly don't understand the love affair for someone who has done nothing for the club while turning our backs on the likes of Hernandez.

Rio was also missmanaged at the start of the season, Moyes had him playing in 5 or 6 consecutive games.

Its All Wright

Saucy McKetchup wrote: »

Just had a look there, he must have deleted the caption

He deleted the caption and has said on a Twitter that it wasnt a dig at Moyes, Zaha needs to grow up

Professey Chin

No

Wilfried Zaha ‏@wilfriedzaha 7m
My last Instagram picture was not intended as a dig or indirect at my manager, I have nothing but respect ..

Wilfried Zaha ‏@wilfriedzaha 4m
My picture actually meant ole solskjaer has a lot faith for me to do something for cardiff's current position

I have a feeling he means both

Your Airbag

Professey Chin wrote: »

I have a feeling he means both

At the same time everything a player says is over scrutinized and meanings that are not intended are sought by the press, especially whens its negative.

Rafael posted a pic with the caption "It takes darkness for the stars to shine" or something like that and you'll hardly hear about it.

Maximus Alexander

BloodBath

No

Let them all off. The team needs a total rebuild. There's only a few senior players worth keeping.

Players that should be or are going in the summer.

Vidic
Ferdinand
Evra
Giggs
Anderson
Fabio
Fletcher
Young
Valencia
Nani
Hernandez

We already have 4-5 replacements in Fellaini, Kagawa, Mata, Januzaj and possibly Jones. We still need to get at least 1-2 world class center backs in, 2 defensive midfielders, a right back and a left back and at least 1 more attacking midfielder/right winger. It would cost the guts of 160m but they would get around 60-70m for the sale of Young, Valencia, Nani, Anderson, Fabio and Hernandez as well as clearing about a million a week in wages off the books for new players. Bring back a couple of the young prospects like Lingard and Powell to fill the squad.

None of it will matter without a world class manager though. Moyes could have a dream team and still struggle on all fronts.

Saucy McKetchup

No

People are looking into players tweets and Instagram post way too much almost to the point of putting words in players mouths to cause speculation.

spiralism

No

People can pan the players all they want but im going to back guys Fergie brought in and who have won us titles (in Hernandez's case) over a manager it's becoming increasingly clear is out of his depth.

Moyes is losing the dressing room, comments like that were unheard of under Sir Alex. Repeatedly blaming the players, bad results and now questioning the mentality, it's only a matter of time before this grumbling becomes outright mutinous.

mewe

No

I'm not likin the way some posters are callin others plastic fans and the anti moyes brigade and stuff because they've decided he isn't the man for the job. I can speak for myself when i say i was willing to give Moyes time to put his own stamp on the team but there hasn't been any sign of improvement or progress but instead it's been getting worse. To be sayin you're not a real fan etc for callin for his head is the greatest load of bollox. I don't support David Moyes. I support Man United.

I wish it had worked out for him, i really do. But it hasn't and i don't think it ever will.

p.s Didn't like Rene's sly dig about the straightforward tactics yesterday. It was borne out of bitterness and he won't be so smart when he gets the sack himself, which he most definitely will.

Dicky Pride

No

almost a couple of days on from the match and people are going to start becoming positive about the future again...as per the norm on this thread...

Pro. F

No

wonderfullife wrote: »

Defending from the 6 yard line is, ordinarily, not being set up defensively well.

However - if you know the opposition will insist on shifting it wide and crossing it to death, then it's absolutely a good defensive set-up. There's no point holding a high line leaving space in behind. Because when they shift it wide it means you're running back towards your own goal to clear the crosses.

I.e. In short, if you defend that deep at least you are facing the play and can see ball and man in your eyeline. Easy to defend against crosses that way. Not so easy when running backwards from a high line.

So i'd disagree. They set up defensively well because they did their homework and knew Moyes is a one-trick-pony obsessed with crossing.

...

As it stood, Rene did really well and had them set up perfectly to defend aerial bombardment from wide.

Nonsense. One of the basic rules of defending crosses is that you don't fall too deep and so impede your keeper and unnecessarily bring the danger near your own goal. When the opposition are crossing the ball from 20, 30 and 40 yards out, falling back into your own six yard box is a bad idea. Any half decent junior side will coach this. All professional teams operate that way.

Nobody is saying Fulham should have held a high line. Holding a line on or near the edge your your own 18 yard box is is not holding a high line.

BloodBath

No

The only positive is that the wheels have been set in motion for the sacking of Moyes. It's just a matter of when.

Pro. F

No

Your Airbag wrote: »

Fulham fell back deep because they had a good height advantage with their CB's and 8 players to join them. How you mention them doing this continually as bad defending when it was an obvious tactic is strange. It was their plan.

Funny that their plan runs contrary to all the defensive plans of all other professional football teams. Rene must be more of a genius than we guessed.

Your Airbag wrote: »

They set to defend and counter. They scored as many on the counter as they couldn't defend. Their game plan worked.

The fact that they got a result does not prove that they were well organised defensively.

Your Airbag wrote: »

Chlesea were called bad for being Ultra defensive against a superior Barca side. You said Fulham defended bad when they were set ultra defensive to counter attack, the similarity is obvious. If you can't see it I can't help that.

Whenever you work out how to make this in to a coherent point I'll respond to it.

Your Airbag wrote: »

We scored twice against a team that had a set defensive plan, whether it was a good or bad one it still worked, it wasn't pretty or attractive or nice to watch but it worked. We scored twice, there is the proof it worked

How does this paragraph lend any weight to your claim that Fulham were well organised defensively?

Headshot

No

BloodBath wrote: »

The only positive is that the wheels have been set in motion for the sacking of Moyes. It's just a matter of when.

ill celebrate like its 1999

spiralism

No

Headshot wrote: »

ill celebrate like its 1999

I'm going on the piss the day he gets the sack, fact.

People here are still comparing what Fulham did yesterday to Chelsea in the Nou Camp and Allianz in 2012...really? :rolleyes: