Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod Warning: Post #7871

Its All Wright

Really cant see Moyes being sacked unless we we slip up in our next 4-5 league games and also go out of the Champions League. I think he would walk rather than be sacked though

BloodBath

No

If he walks it's only because the Glazers give him that option to save face instead of being sacked.

J. Marston

No

spiralism wrote: »

People can pan the players all they want but im going to back guys Fergie brought in and who have won us titles (in Hernandez's case) over a manager it's becoming increasingly clear is out of his depth.

Moyes is losing the dressing room, comments like that were unheard of under Sir Alex. Repeatedly blaming the players, bad results and now questioning the mentality, it's only a matter of time before this grumbling becomes outright mutinous.

Yep, I'm with the players too. The vast majority of them have delivered the goods during their time here and I won't turn on them just to protect a manager who has no place at United and week by week, is turning the club into a laughing stock.

People might say we have to stick by Ferguson's mantra of "Absolutely nobody questions the manager" but that was fine for him, he was one of the best football managers ever and led us to countless honours. He earned the right not to be questioned, even if some of his decisions were strange.

The same can't be said for Moyes, he will sink the club if he is given time. Fúck the romance of "It's your job now to stand by our manager" I'm hoping the players force him out, it's what is best for United.

BloodBath

No

At least we have the 6 nations to distract us from this shambles for a few weeks

BloodBath

BloodBath wrote: »

At least we have the 6 nations to distract us from this shambles for a few weeks

I hate rugby

Chazz Michael Michaels

BloodBath wrote: »

Let them all off. The team needs a total rebuild. There's only a few senior players worth keeping.

Players that should be or are going in the summer.

Vidic
Ferdinand
Evra
Giggs
Anderson
Fabio
Fletcher
Young
Valencia
Nani
Hernandez

We already have 4-5 replacements in Fellaini, Kagawa, Mata, Januzaj and possibly Jones. We still need to get at least 1-2 world class center backs in, 2 defensive midfielders, a right back and a left back and at least 1 more attacking midfielder/right winger. It would cost the guts of 160m but they would get around 60-70m for the sale of Young, Valencia, Nani, Anderson, Fabio and Hernandez as well as clearing about a million a week in wages off the books for new players. Bring back a couple of the young prospects like Lingard and Powell to fill the squad.

None of it will matter without a world class manager though. Moyes could have a dream team and still struggle on all fronts.

Unwanted players do command a high price, alright. Its all about the leverage.

BloodBath

No

You don't have to like it. It's the national team and they have a good chance of a grand slam with the old enemy to play next

Chazz Michael Michaels

BloodBath wrote: »

You don't have to like it. It's the national team and they have a good chance of a grand slam with the old enemy to play next

Yeah...

IamtheWalrus

This cross statistic is being blown out of proportion.

spiralism

No

BloodBath wrote: »

At least we have the 6 nations to distract us from this shambles for a few weeks

Thankfully. My only other solace in sport this year was watching my beloved Denver Broncos get to the Super Bowl. Anyone who follows that sport may tell you how that worked out.

Seriously though, i get the feeling this could be a watershed week, sunday has worn a lot of peoples' patience very thin with Moyes. Good hammering on wednesday would hurt but would probably do us good in the long run and tbh it doesn't go much lower this year so a few gooners taking the piss may be worth it for the greater good.

Pro. F

No

Your Airbag wrote: »

When did I ignore the fact that Evra was not replaced exactly? Show me that post. Won't be easy, it doesn't exist.

I named three players in regards to defensive errors. If Vidic heads the ball clear in the 94th minute and if Carrick wins the ball in MF it doesn't matter what Evra does. If Sidwell was tracked by Rooney the first goal doesn't go in.

If Evra tries to defend or contest the ball with Bent we don't lose. Just because Moyes picks Evra does not absolve Evra of blame, there is nothing stopping Evra from defending.

Vidic is off this summer and we were linked with CB's. Does Vidic not try? No he tried but made mistakes all the same.

Are you going to level its Moyes fault for picking Vidic too?

It's impossible to show you not saying something. You haven't apportioned blame to Moyes for continuing to play Evra and for failing to find a replacement/competition for him. That is you ignoring the fact that Moyes is responsible for Evra being on the pitch when he shouldn't be.

Moyes picking Vidic is not a mistake. As you say Vidic tries. There is also the fact that our other central defenders are injured, so Vidic might not even be Moyes' first choice.

I have said that Evra is a shít defender and lazy. I am obviously not absolving Evra of blame. Evra is a shít defender and lazy. Moyes has made a bad mistake by not having replaced him by now.

Excusing Moyes' shíte results by focusing on defensive errors when Moyes hasn't replaced the biggest liability in our defence is idiotic.

Dicky Pride

No

Just as an aside, 2 things.

I know I'm one of the most hated people on this thread..but I genuinely love the thread and all the people in it. When my team is going through something like this, I just want to be around other like minded people.

2 - I really like Moyes and would love it if he could turn it around. I presume we all feel this way?

Bleating Lamb

People calling for Moyes head obviously weren't listening to Fergies speech at OT.....like it or lump it Moyes will not be sacked. ...........unless we are only mid table around Christmas 2014 and Moyes summer signings didnt perform from August 2014.Fergie rightly or wrongly has huge power behind scenes at OT.Personally I think Fergie went for 'safe,steady' option of Moyes which could well have worked but for Man Utd type football I'd love to see Martinez replace him if he does go.

GSPfan

No

Its All Wright wrote: »

Really cant see Moyes being sacked unless we we slip up in our next 4-5 league games and also go out of the Champions League. I think he would walk rather than be sacked though

I could handle losing any amount of games now just as long as it see's him gone. Champions League humiliation may be enough.

paulbok

No

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

They've concede 15 goals from crosses this season

Moyes got this

5-3 United

Jesus Navas will be sh1++ing himself with all those crosses

BloodBath

No

The only way we're going to attract the players we need for the massive rebuild needed in the summer is with a top manager who can bring players in that he knows and trusts and they have a mutual respect for him.

Moyes is not going to be able to do that, especially without any champions league football. Not even Europa league it seems. Keeping Moyes for this rebuild in the summer would be another disaster.

His targets are good, his ability to convince them to come to United is another story especially with his lackluster managerial record. If players that leave in the summer come out with bad stories on what's been going on behind the scenes then it's only going to make matters worse.

GSPfan

No

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

People calling for Moyes head obviously weren't listening to Fergies speech at OT.....like it or lump it Moyes will not be sacked. ...........unless we are only mid table around Christmas 2014 and Moyes summer signings didnt perform from August 2014.Fergie rightly or wrongly has huge power behind scenes at OT.Personally I think Fergie went for 'safe,steady' option of Moyes which could well have worked but for Man Utd type football I'd love to see Martinez replace him if he does go.

Martinez is not gonna happen. Jurgen Klopp is the man we need.

The_Kew_Tour

No

spiralism wrote: »

Thankfully. My only other solace in sport this year was watching my beloved Denver Broncos get to the Super Bowl. Anyone who follows that sport may tell you how that worked out.

Seriously though, i get the feeling this could be a watershed week, sunday has worn a lot of peoples' patience very thin with Moyes. Good hammering on wednesday would hurt but would probably do us good in the long run and tbh it doesn't go much lower this year so a few gooners taking the piss may be worth it for the greater good.

Not often I felt more happier to be a Dolphins fan then watching Dever get stuffed in Super Bowl.

spiralism

No

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Not often I felt more happier to be a Dolphins fan then watching Dever get stuffed in Super Bowl.

Funny cause i don't remember any beef between us and the dolphins but whatever..

back on topic though:

GSPfan wrote: »

I could handle losing any amount of games now just as long as it see's him gone. Champions League humiliation may be enough.

Ditto. Olympiakos beating us could do a lot, as could humiliation against City and Arsenal or Liverpool.

The only thing that gets Moyes sacked though is a player mutiny, which may not be far off by the sounds. No amount of stubborness on SAF and the board's part should overlook that.

Bleating Lamb

GSPfan wrote: »

Martinez is not gonna happen. Jurgen Klopp is the man we need.

Klopp seems very content in Germany,I really like the way Martinez has a plan for every player in his squad,and improving them as players.

tallaghtmick

No

Dicky Pride wrote: »

Just as an aside, 2 things.

I know I'm one of the most hated people on this thread..but I genuinely love the thread and all the people in it. When my team is going through something like this, I just want to be around other like minded people.

2 - I really like Moyes and would love it if he could turn it around. I presume we all feel this way?

I bet im hated more

The_Kew_Tour

No

Dicky Pride wrote: »

2 - I really like Moyes and would love it if he could turn it around. I presume we all feel this way?

Any United fan who has any heart will admit they be delighted to be wrong on Moyes.

He comes across as sound bloke. He is good manager, but not United standard. No shame in that.

Right now a new man is needed.

spiralism

No

People pining for Klopp are the same as people pining for Reus: Deluded. Neither have a notion of leaving Borussia anytime soon.

Headshot

No

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Any United fan who has any heart will admit they be delighted to be wrong on Moyes.

He comes across as sound bloke. He is good manager, but not United standard. No shame in that.

Right now a new man is needed.

Right on the money.

Echo's my thoughts

2moreMinutes

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

People calling for Moyes head obviously weren't listening to Fergies speech at OT.....like it or lump it Moyes will not be sacked. ...........unless we are only mid table around Christmas 2014 and Moyes summer signings didnt perform from August 2014.Fergie rightly or wrongly has huge power behind scenes at OT.Personally I think Fergie went for 'safe,steady' option of Moyes which could well have worked but for Man Utd type football I'd love to see Martinez replace him if he does go.

To be honest, I kind of agree with most of this post until I realised you were only joking when I read the bolded part. Good one.:D

According to the vast majority of fans, we already have one chancer in charge. The last thing needed is to replace him with another chancer.

Headshot

No

Out of interest what is Conte's English like? Not a big deal these days thou

beno619

No

Moyes has Rooney onside and RVP has kept quite enough while clearly not enjoying his football.

If he looses either player I think its over for Moyes.

The_Kew_Tour

No

spiralism wrote: »

Funny cause i don't remember any beef between us and the dolphins but whatever..

back on topic though:
.

Sorry dude that came out totally wrong.:o

I meant like Dolphins are **** the Fulham of NFL . It was just being Denver fan would suck much more. Bit like being from Leitrim and watching Mayo implode on a All Ireland Final day.

lordgoat

No

spiralism wrote: »

People pining for Klopp are the same as people pining for Reus: Deluded. Neither have a notion of leaving Borussia anytime soon.

Plenty of options.

Conte, Simeone, anyone.

bucketybuck

No

Just thinking about things today, its really going to be a shock to the system next season when that Champions league music starts playing on a Tuesday night and we realise that we are not in it. Ever since the Cup winners cup in '92 European football has been a staple of my season and its going to be a huge loss to see Europes biggest competition going forward without one of its biggest clubs.

Then I remembered how much criticism Wenger got over the last 8 years for not winning anything. And how even in the worst of their slumps, even when loyal fans were calling for his head and their best players were leaving, even then Arsenal were still able to qualify for the ****ing Champions league.

I didn't think it was actually ****ing possible for one of the big English clubs to not qualify, the gap between them and the rest was always so big. Look at Liverpool, having the season of their lives and still falling 5/6 points behind the big clubs as the season goes on! A bad season for one the top four is finishing in fourth and still probably well in front of fifth place.

It just put it into perspective for me how badly Moyes has handled this season. Taking the champions from 1st to 7th should not even have been possible, in fact it is actually a ****ing achievement of note! If you had been told this pre-season you would have said it couldn't be done, because even in their worst nightmares the big four clubs were up in a mini league of their own.

David Moyes, take a bow son.

DARK-KNIGHT

No

lordgoat wrote: »

Plenty of options.

Conte, Simeone, anyone.

Guus hiddink....

2moreMinutes

spiralism wrote: »

The only thing that gets Moyes sacked though is a player mutiny, which may not be far off by the sounds. No amount of stubborness on SAF and the board's part should overlook that.

If there is a player mutiny, the players should be utterly ashamed of themselves. They can think whatever the hell they like about the manager and his qualifications to be managing United but as long as they're paid employees of the club, they need to be putting in an honest shift every time they play which a lot of them are not doing right now.

GSPfan

No

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

Klopp seems very content in Germany,I really like the way Martinez has a plan for every player in his squad,and improving them as players.

Yeah but we are not seriously gonna go after two Everton managers in a year. Martinez is no genius. He is likeable and good but we need more right now imo.

Youtube interviews with Klopp. He talks of exciting football. He says he loves seeing the stat at the end of the game that says his players have run more than the opposition. He believes in motivating players.
He also says he has a desire to work in other countries but has no idea when. Well with his players being robbed by Bayern every season it may be a good time to get him.

He is as much a gamble as any but I believe he is the man we want and need.

Rayne Wooney

Thinking Klopp wouldn't at least seriously consider an opening at United is deluded.

The next manager through the door will definitely not be the risky option, it will be someone proven at the top level.

Kerrydude1981

No

Dicky Pride wrote: »

Just as an aside, 2 things.

I know I'm one of the most hated people on this thread..but I genuinely love the thread and all the people in it. When my team is going through something like this, I just want to be around other like minded people.

2 - I really like Moyes and would love it if he could turn it around. I presume we all feel this way?

Im a fan of Moyes the man,he comes across as a sound skin,

But as Moyes the manager he comes across as a fella who is stuck in his ways and cannot change from the style of play that he believes in,

Like Utd have always scored goals from crosses but Jesus that doesn't mean a cross has to be included in every attacking move,there is no variation in Utd's play,same sh1te different stadium.

Id like to see him been a success but with the style of play the team is playing that isn't looking possible atm.

The_Kew_Tour

No

Very few managers are going to turn down the chance to manage us too.

Ideally summer time, sadly, will be our best bet to get new man in.

If we can get him now then great.

spiralism

No

2moreMinutes wrote: »

If there is a player mutiny, the players should be utterly ashamed of themselves. They can think whatever the hell they like about the manager and his qualifications to be managing United but as long as they're paid employees of the club, they need to be putting in an honest shift every time they play which a lot of them are not doing right now.

They've won countless trophies and brought glory to the club. Am i going to back them and their opinion over a manager who's won nothing and who is looking seriously out of his depth? Yes.

You put a guy who has won nothing in charge of players who've won everything, this is the result. They're not putting in an honest shift you say? Could be that they're demoralised, dont have faith in the manager and are frustrated. Better teams have had players not perform due to coaching problems. They're players, not robots.

The_Kew_Tour

No

bucketybuck wrote: »

Just thinking about things today, its really going to be a shock to the system next season when that Champions league music starts playing on a Tuesday night and we realise that we are not in it. Ever since the Cup winners cup in '92 European football has been a staple of my season and its going to be a huge loss to see Europes biggest competition going forward without one of its biggest clubs.

Its one thing being in middle of February talking about United not winning the league

Its a different world completely thinking about United not even getting Top 4 in the middle of February.

Especially when all big guns from last season are still at the club.

spiralism

No

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Its one thing being in middle of February talking about United not winning the league

Its a different world completely thinking about United not even getting Top 4 in the middle of February.

Especially when all big guns from last season are still at the club.

This.

If someone from now went back to the start of last august to the corresponding thread here, said we'd sign Mata for 37 million to add to our attack and that we'd be lying a distant 7th and hardly able to buy a goal home or away, they'd have been laughed at in a major way.

GSPfan

No

If the names Conte, Simeone and Klopp are the big 3 on the wishlist then I think Klopp is the only possible choice.

Conte and Simeone are at the height of their powers at each club. Klopp will struggle to topple Bayern now with the way the Dortmund team are being poached.

Backstreet Moyes

GSPfan wrote: »

If the names Conte, Simeone and Klopp are the big 3 on the wishlist then I think Klopp is the only possible choice.

Conte and Simeone are at the height of their powers at each club. Klopp will struggle to topple Bayern now with the way the Dortmund team are being poached.

I think if you told Conte to take over and give him a war chest he would come. I don't think Juve have the money to build a squad to win the champions league. I think any of the 3 would be tempted if they were given big money to spend.

spiralism

No

GSPfan wrote: »

If the names Conte, Simeone and Klopp are the big 3 on the wishlist then I think Klopp is the only possible choice.

Conte and Simeone are at the height of their powers at each club. Klopp will struggle to topple Bayern now with the way the Dortmund team are being poached.

Can't see any of them budging to tackle this ****heap now though, whatever about last summer. Conte is re-establishing Juve as the premier team in Italy and is Italian anyways (i might point out that he has 400 apps for Juve and is a club legend), Simeone is on the verge of splitting the big two in La Liga and Klopp has repeatedly said that he's committed to Dortmund and loves the club.

BloodBath

No

Klopp would be great if he finished poaching the Dortmund talent for us.

Hummels, Subotic, Reus and Bender wouldn't be a bad haul.

Augmerson

Outsider chance for Laudrup to replace Moyes?

Your Airbag

Pro. F wrote: »

1. Funny that their plan runs contrary to all the defensive plans of all other professional football teams. Rene must be more of a genius than we guessed.



2. The fact that they got a result does not prove that they were well organised defensively.



3. Whenever you work out how to make this in to a coherent point I'll respond to it.



4. How does this paragraph lend any weight to your claim that Fulham were well organised defensively?

1. You summarisation of the distance Fulham defended is wrong, should have mentioned that earlier and no, plenty of teams defend deep and get results. West ham Chelsea was a recent one. Again your attempts to push your self and some sorrt of all knowing tactical expert based on working in the sports sector falls flat. There are many ways to defend.

2. Ha, the fact they set up to defend and counter and did exactly that and got a point at OT does not prove they were organised. Yeah sure, they survived that onslaught of crosses by being disorganised and badly positioned defensively. Jesus wept, how can you miss this. Lucky at times yes, but disorganised no.

3. Its perfectly coherent, your inability to understand a simple point of how ultra defensive football in two different matches with the defensive team scoring on the counter is similar is more of a reflection of how long it takes a point to sink in with you than anything else.

4. How does the fact a team got a result lend weight to the fact they were well organised? The result of them planning to do something and then doing it would usually do that. I said Fulham set out with a gameplan and it worked not only defensively but overall.

GSPfan

No

I'd bet Klopp would be available if approached. His loyalty to Dortmund and his desire to remain at a club for a long time only makes me want him more.

spiralism

No

Nuts102 wrote: »

I think if you told Conte to take over and give him a war chest he would come. I don't think Juve have the money to build a squad to win the champions league. I think any of the 3 would be tempted if they were given big money to spend.

Hasn't a notion. Imagine Gary Neville was managing the club, had won back to back leagues and looking likely for a 3rd...do you think he'd jump ship to Real Madrid if they offered big money to manage them? Not a chance.

Well it's like that with Conte. He's a former captain, club legend and loves Juventus, he's returned them to the forefront in Italy. There's not a ****ing fear he leaves that job.

Pro. F

No

Your Airbag wrote: »

1. You summarisation of the distance Fulham defended is wrong, should have mentioned that earlier and no, plenty of teams defend deep and get results. West ham Chelsea was a recent one. Again your attempts to push your self and some sorrt of all knowing tactical expert based on working in the sports sector falls flat. There are many ways to defend.

I didn't see the West Ham Chelsea game, but I'd be confident that your likening of Fulham's defence to that of West Ham's is just as laughable as your likening of them to Chelsea vs Barca.

Of course you will say that you never likened Fulham's defence to Chelsea's vs Barca now.

I don't know what the flying fúck you are talking about me working in the sports sector.

Your Airbag wrote: »

2. Ha, the fact they set up to defend and counter and did exactly that and got a point at OT does not prove they were organised. Yeah sure, they survived that onslaught of crosses by being disorganised and badly positioned defensively. Jesus wept, how can you miss this. Lucky at times yes, but disorganised no.

You and I have different requirements for evidence before we think something is proven.

Your Airbag wrote: »

3. Its perfectly coherent, your inability to understand a simple point of how ultra defensive football in two different matches with the defensive team scoring on the counter is similar is more of a reflection of how long it takes a point to sink in with you than anything else.

Your entire argument is a self contradictory mess.

Your Airbag wrote: »

4. How does the fact a team got a result lend weight to the fact they were well organised? The result of them planning to do something and then doing it would usually do that. I said Fulham set out with a gameplan and it worked not only defensively but overall.

Yeah, the paragraph I quoted you were talking about how United scored two goals. United scoring two goals doesn't prove that Fulham were well organised defensively.

Chagan

No

I don't think Klopp would join us until the summer. It just doesn't seem in his nature to walk out on Dortmund in the middle of the season.

I'd be more than happy to see Warren Joyce take over as caretaker until the end of the campaign if needs be. We haven't exactly got much to lose at this stage anyway.

Mikeyt086

No

GSPfan wrote: »

I'd bet Klopp would be available if approached. His loyalty to Dortmund and his desire to remain at a club for a long time only makes me want him more.

But...