Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod Warning: Post #7871

Your Airbag

Pro. F wrote: »

I didn't see the West Ham Chelsea game, but I'd be confident that your likening of Fulham's defence to that of West Ham's is just as laughable as your likening of them to Chelsea vs Barca.

Of course you will say that you never likened Fulham's defence to Chelsea's vs Barca now.

I don't know what the flying fúck you are talking about me working in the sports sector.



You and I have different requirements for evidence before we think something is proven.



Your entire argument is a self contradictory mess.



Yeah, the paragraph I quoted you were talking about how United scored two goals. United scoring two goals doesn't prove that Fulham were well organised defensively.

You didn't see the West ham game but ready to dismiss the similarities, no surprises there.

Yes I will because likened Fulham's defence to Chelsea's vs Barca now because thats not what happened and as usual you twist and move the goal posts. I said people claiming Chelesa style as being anti football was as clownish as you saying Fulham were bad, they similarites were in Ultra defensiveness but there was a difference in what Chelsea had to do but don't let you making up some bs point. That won't stop you from diggng out some follow up post out of context in a further attempt to distort this point.

You mentioned working with coaches and players recently or something to that effect.

Utd scored two goals, one from a deflection against a team bottom of the table with no superstars unlike the UTD squad. This was after the highest amount of crosses and ariel assault seen in the league in a long time.

Your dismissal of the fact Fulham defended well is laughable.

K-9

No

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Its one thing being in middle of February talking about United not winning the league

Its a different world completely thinking about United not even getting Top 4 in the middle of February.

Especially when all big guns from last season are still at the club.

Plus ye just bought Mata, a player every other club in the PL would have in a heartbeat and yes, it's only a couple of games in and Rooney and RVP are building up match fitness, he got 3 assists but the thing is, they seem more accidents of the nature of the football you play, not actually planned by the type of football.

The odd thing about the 18/81 successful crosses or whatever it was stat is, people are looking at it the wrong way, a winger pinging in 30% of his crosses successfully is doing pretty well, so say the stat was 24/81, does it make that much of a difference?

It's the predictability of it that Rene was getting at. It's more a less a cross a minute! FFS!

For me the problem is the form in the New Year. I'd say nearly everybody expected United to come with a push, it hasn't happened and all right, yesterday was a bit of a freak result, the problem is they keep recurring.

I know some fans will have blind faith, we're all football fans after all, it's allowed and Liverpool fans know all about that, miracles do happen the odd time, but you need something to base it on. I don't see togetherness, team spirit, confidence in the manager, players rushing to embrace Moyes after a significant goal. Every team gets a bad run of results at some stage, where's the siege mentality?

The poor man just looks isolated and aloof. I've no personal bitterness towards him, same as I hadn't towards Hodgson, they are decent managers, things just didn't go their way. Hodgson is now managing England, playing the type of football he always played, based on archaic stats from the 80/90's, it'll get you so far. The way he utilised Torres at Liverpool says a hell of a lot about him, Reina just continuosly hoofed the ball out in kick outs, no creativity or imagination whatsoever.

Which goes back to the point of what football philosophy does Moyes actually have? Many wonder after his 11 years at Everton, it seems reactive rather than proactive and just isn't good enough at such a huge club.

I suppose it is easier for me, as somebody who backed Moyes when he was appointed to admit I was wrong, and sure I've no active interest in seeing it corrected. When what seems to me, the majority of your support have lost any confidence and faith in him, it's time to start looking at replacements. I'd be amazed if the board isn't doing that atm, and that includes Ferguson. I think the conspiracy theories about his legacy are total bullshyte, the mans the archetypal winner, which means admitting you called it wrong from time to time.

Pro. F

No

Klopp would be a risky enough appointment for me.

His back four's defending at times is all over the place. Typical Bundesliga stuff and something that he would not get away with in the PL for long. Obviously he has done well in the CL as well, but I'd still see that as a bit of a risk. He'd definitely have a lot of learning to do.

Something I would also need to be established before I'd be happy with him coming as manager is whether or not he is in complete charge of the signings at Dortmund. He has been working with a lot of excellent players, did he pick out all that talent himself or do the club have more control over the signings.

Lastly, and more controversially, when a team's style is based so much on physicality and stamina there is always a lingering suspicion of PED use for me. It could just be that Klopp concentrates a lot on fitness work, I'd be worried that his magic could dry up quickly enough.

I'm not saying that he shouldn't be considered as a potential manager, it would be an exciting appointment. It's just that I do see him as a risky option.

GSPfan

No

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

But...

Ha ha ha. Yes completely contradictory.

KombuchaMshroom

No

Surely this could be another factor in persuading Klopp to take over

Ulysses Gaze

spiralism wrote: »

Can't see any of them budging to tackle this ****heap now though, whatever about last summer. Conte is re-establishing Juve as the premier team in Italy and is Italian anyways (i might point out that he has 400 apps for Juve and is a club legend), Simeone is on the verge of splitting the big two in La Liga and Klopp has repeatedly said that he's committed to Dortmund and loves the club.

Conte will also be offered a contract to 2017 with a significant war-chest to help Juve in the Champions League.

Your Airbag

If City want to spend big in the summer we are going to find it difficult.

Gary Cook says Kaka has voiced his regret over not completing a 100m move to City

Thats our entire war chest in one player, or half of it depending on what paper you read

And former City chief executive Cook says the Brazilian ace has since admitted to him that he regrets not completing a world-record £100m transfer to the Etihad. He was sold to Real Madrid instead that summer, and is now back at Milan.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/manchester-city-exclusive-garry-cook-3124483

Pro. F

No

Your Airbag wrote: »

You didn't see the West ham game but ready to dismiss the similarities, no surprises there.

I'm dismissing your ability to tell the difference between a well organised defence and poorly organised one.

Your Airbag wrote: »

Yes I will because likened Fulham's defence to Chelsea's vs Barca now because thats not what happened and as usual you twist and move the goal posts. I said people claiming Chelesa style as being anti football was as clownish as you saying Fulham were bad, they similarites were in Ultra defensiveness but there was a difference in what Chelsea had to do but don't let you making up some bs point. That won't stop you from diggng out some follow up post out of context in a further attempt to distort this point.

That is an absurdly convoluted, and unnecessarily confusing, comparison to draw.

Your Airbag wrote: »

You mentioned working with coaches and players recently or something to that effect.

I've done a lot of sports, not football. I haven't worked in the sports industry and I've never said that I did.

Your Airbag wrote: »

Utd scored two goals, one from a deflection against a team bottom of the table with no superstars unlike the UTD squad. This was after the highest amount of crosses and ariel assault seen in the league in a long time.

Your dismissal of the fact Fulham defended well is laughable.

You have tried to argue that United scoring two goals is both proof that United attacked well and that Fulham defended well.

beno619

No

Your Airbag wrote: »

If City want to spend big in the summer we are going to find it difficult.

Gary Cook says Kaka has voiced his regret over not completing a 100m move to City

Thats our entire war chest in one player, or half of it depending on what paper you read



http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/manchester-city-exclusive-garry-cook-3124483

Kaka vs Silva ?
City got a better deal in the long run.

Maximus Alexander

Your Airbag wrote: »

If City want to spend big in the summer we are going to find it difficult.

Gary Cook says Kaka has voiced his regret over not completing a 100m move to City

Thats our entire war chest in one player, or half of it depending on what paper you read



http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/manchester-city-exclusive-garry-cook-3124483

That's 5 years ago and before FFP, for whatever that's worth.

Your Airbag

Pro. F wrote: »

You have tried to argue that United scoring two goals is both proof that United attacked well and that Fulham defended well.

Half correct. I said Moyes tactic of eventually one will get through worked. I have said that our crossing was poor and the overall plan very basic. You either have difficulty understanding basic points or prefer to twist what was said or a mixture of the two. Either way its tiresome.

Fulham deflected something like 75 crosses out of 81. They stopped a team who had 75% possesion with 73% of that in the Fulham half from beating them. All of this from a bottom of the team table who were away from home and managed to score twice on the break and could have had a third if not for Richardsons poor finishing. Fulham did well, your denial of this is silly.

Your Airbag

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

That's 5 years ago and before FFP, for whatever that's worth.

Very little by the looks of it. Is FFP even active now? City spent near 100m this summer again.

beno619 wrote: »

Kaka vs Silva ?
City got a better deal in the long run.

I'm sure Silva would have followed Kaka even if City signed him. They have deep pockets.

If they decide they need Vidal, Reus, Kross, Cavani or whoever it could make the summer very difficult.

J. Marston

No

The Sun EXCLUSIVE: Rio Ferdinand has been left out of Man Utd’s squad for a training camp in Dubai

..

Rayne Wooney

Hopefully Moyes showing some backbone

Pro. F

No

Your Airbag wrote: »

Half correct. I said Moyes tactic of eventually one will get through worked. I have said that our crossing was poor and the overall plan very basic. You either have difficulty understanding basic points or prefer to twist what was said or a mixture of the two. Either way its tiresome.

Fulham deflects something like 75 crosses out of 81. They stopped a team who had 75% possesion with 73% of that in the Fulham half from beating them. All of this from a bottom of the team table who were away from home and managed to score twice on the break and could have had a third if not for Richardsons poor finishing. Fulham did well, your denial of this is silly.

All of that could just as equally be used as proof of how poor United were at attacking.

What you and I find acceptable as proof of something is very different.

spiralism

No

Your Airbag wrote: »

Very little by the looks of it. Is FFP even active now? City spent near 100m this summer again.



I'm sure Silva would have followed Kaka even if City signed him. They have deep pockets.

If they decide they need Vidal, Reus, Kross, Cavani or whoever it could make the summer very difficult.

Nope. City are blatantly cooking the books to avert it and not one **** is being given. It's a token measure for the bigwigs to look like they're opposing football being bought out, but they don't want to actually discourage that really.

Your Airbag

Pro. F wrote: »

All of that could just as equally be used as proof of how poor United were at attacking.

What you and I find acceptable as proof of something is very different.

I have said UTD were poor in the attack, the crossing was very poor. Some composure whilst crossing could have gotten us an early goal and we could have seen a very different result.

But the tactic of throw enough balls in and something will break for us worked twice, no matter how ugly it was.

Fulhams tactic of sit deep, weather the onslaught and break when the ball lands in our favor worked too..

A lot of ugly tactics worked for both teams via determination and sticking at it. Hence the draw.

When you look at those stats you wonder how Fulham survived only the two and scored almost everything that fell for them. It wasn't down to being bad.

Your Airbag

spiralism wrote: »

Nope. City are blatantly cooking the books to avert it and not one **** is being given. It's a token measure for the bigwigs to look like they're opposing football being bought out, but they don't want to actually discourage that really.

Well in 2013 was the last agreement the premier league struck with UEFA

Premier League clubs cannot make a loss of more than £105 million over a three season period (including 2013-14, 2014–15 and 2015–16) which is an average of £35 million per year. Any club that loses more than £105 million in that time faces possible point deductions while clubs making any loss up to the £105 million limit will come under tighter financial scrutiny from the Premier League

I'm not sure which clubs would have lost 35m a season in recent years but being in debt is not a problem. The massive revenue the EPL bring in year after year through tv rights renders FFP very hard to effect the top EPL sides.

I can see City continuing with impunity for the foreseeable future and its worrying.

Pro. F

No

Your Airbag wrote: »

I have said UTD were poor in the attack, the crossing was very poor. Some composure whilst crossing could have gotten us an early goal and we could have seen a very different result.

But the tactic of throw enough balls in and something will break for us worked twice, no matter how ugly it was.

Fulhams tactic of sit deep, weather the onslaught and break when the ball lands in our favor worked too..

A lot of ugly tactics worked for both teams via determination and sticking at it. Hence the draw.

When you look at those stats you wonder how Fulham survived only the two and scored almost everything that fell for them. It wasn't down to being bad.

United were poor in attack and yet Fulham still conceded two goals. Conceding two goals against a team who were poor in attack does not prove that Fulham were well organised defensively.

spiralism

No

Your Airbag wrote: »

Well in 2013 was the last agreement the premier league struck with UEFA



I'm not sure which clubs would have lost 35m a season in recent years but being in debt is not a problem. The massive revenue the EPL bring in year after year through tv rights renders FFP very hard to effect the top EPL sides.

I can see City continuing with impunity for the foreseeable future and its worrying.

If i recall correctly, City are averting it through deals like renaming the ground as Ethiad Stadium and selling assets to the holding company owned by their owners. They'll easily avert this and will continue to do so, as will any sugardaddy club in the sport. It's bad for the bodies of football to look like they condone the sport being bought out but the reality is that its good for business for them.

Your Airbag

Pro. F wrote: »

United were poor in attack and yet Fulham still conceded two goals. Conceding two goals against a team who were poor in attack does not prove that Fulham were well organised defensively.

UTD were poor by UTD standards but usually its enough to beat Fulham. With the odds and stats so heavily stacked in our favor Fulham had to have defended well.

A lot of those crosses were poor from the point of view they didn't reach their target. We have all seen the arrow stats of our crossing where only four got through. They didn't get through because Fulham defended well, cleared the danger 1st ball danger well and were there for the 2nd ball follow on, this happens through concentration and good communication. You can't deny their diligence yesterday when dealing with wave after wave of attack.

Rayne Wooney

City made a loss of 57 million last year


And are apparently doing some dodgy stuff to get within the boundary this year, selling player image rights to people they won't name and other stuff.

FFP means nothing really

spiralism

No

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

City made a loss of 57 million last year


And are apparently doing some dodgy stuff to get within the boundary this year, selling player image rights to people they won't name and other stuff.

FFP means nothing really

That and various things like it, a lot of these people they are selling to are their own businesses. In any other line of business it would be illegal and akin to money laundering. However, this is to circumvent FFP, not distribute the profits of crime or the likes. Doesn't mean it's not shady and amoral and it's sad to see that this sort of corporate rot has infiltrated the sport.

Pro. F

No

Your Airbag wrote: »

UTD were poor by UTD standards but usually its enough to beat Fulham. With the odds and stats so heavily stacked in our favor Fulham had to have defended well.

A lot of those crosses were poor from the point of view they didn't reach their target. We have all seen the arrow stats of our crossing where only four got through. They didn't get through because Fulham defended well, cleared the danger 1st ball danger well and were there for the 2nd ball follow on, this happens through concentration and good communication. You can't deny their diligence yesterday when dealing with wave after wave of attack.

If by "diligence" you mean good organisation then yes I deny it. Fulham were a shambles defensively and the only reason they didn't concede more than two goals was because United were a shambles offensively.

spiralism

No

Pro. F wrote: »

If by "diligence" you mean good organisation then yes I deny it. Fulham were a shambles defensively and the only reason they didn't concede more than two goals was because United were a shambles offensively.

It's ****ing ridiculous the praise Fulham are getting for repeatedly snuffing out our attacks. They were exclusively crosses, which they dealt with by sitting 9 men and were helped by the fact they had a 6 foot 7 centre back. They're the worst defence in the league but as Rene and some of their players have said, it was predictable and like facing a non league attack. That side ****ing lost to a league one side at home in midweek don't forget. People legitimately putting that next to Chelsea's efforts in 2012 against Barca and Bayern in their own backyards need to get their head examined.

This amazing Fulham defence, watch the scouse put 5 past them on Wednesday, just watch. They'll do so by not being totally tactically inept and actually implementing an attacking plan that suits the strengths of their players.

Cantona's Collars

Cleverley's given an interview to Oliver Holt,to call it cringeworthy would be generous.

http://thebusbybabe.sbnation.com/2014/2/11/5399412/tom-cleverley-gives-a-shameful-embarrassing-interview-with-oliver-holt

Liam O

I thought it was bad enough a few weeks ago people saying that the team had no chance in the CL and should prioritize the league but now I'm reading people here actually want United to lose?! Some people really are acting a bit like spoilt brats over this whole thing.

The_Kew_Tour

No

Moyes in August - "Fortunately,he's left me a really strong team, which I think gives me a great chance of retaining the title,".

spiralism

No

Liam O wrote: »

I thought it was bad enough a few weeks ago people saying that the team had no chance in the CL and should prioritize the league but now I'm reading people here actually want United to lose?! Some people really are acting a bit like spoilt brats over this whole thing.

Nobody here wants us to lose but the league is a total dead rubber already and a few more losses might rid us of this idiot in charge sooner rather than later. I'd rather limp the rest of the season and sack him than make a charge, ultimately fall short and finish 5th/6th and all we get in return is another year of Moyes.

Literally all i ask from the rest of the season results wise is that we don't get embarrassed by Liverpool and City and we maybe even nick a point from either.

The fact that im making that statement above just sums up where we're at at this moment in time.

Liam O

zerks wrote: »

Cleverley's given an interview to Oliver Holt,to call it cringeworthy would be generous.

http://thebusbybabe.sbnation.com/2014/2/11/5399412/tom-cleverley-gives-a-shameful-embarrassing-interview-with-oliver-holt

Looking at the quotes I'd actually agree with a lot of what he's saying and won't really pay attention to the sensationalism in the article that completely embellished what he's trying to say.

DARK-KNIGHT

No

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Moyes in August - "Fortunately,he's left me a really strong team, which I think gives me a great chance of retaining the title,".

Sickening statement by moyes looking at where we are now..

Think fergie is gonna have to swallow pride and admit moyes was a poor choice

spiralism

No

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

Sickening statement by moyes looking at where we are now..

Think fergie is gonna have to swallow pride and admit moyes was a poor choice

Around Christmas time or so Sir Alex was saying there's no chance we sack him at all. Before the Swansea league game at home there were reports that the board wouldn't even consider firing him right now. It's going to take the players and fanbase turning on him to get him the boot tbh.

The_Kew_Tour

No

im gonna wait to read full interview. apparently he is honest to some who seems to have read it, But, if the bit below is true then the lad would want a slap around the head. No Tom they dont ****ing clap when a player passes the ball sideways. I have been to Spanish games.

"I watch Spanish football a lot. If they pass the ball sideways but keep possession, the fans clap them.

Pro. F

No

zerks wrote: »

Cleverley's given an interview to Oliver Holt,to call it cringeworthy would be generous.

http://thebusbybabe.sbnation.com/2014/2/11/5399412/tom-cleverley-gives-a-shameful-embarrassing-interview-with-oliver-holt

Remember the name Callum Hamilton, that is the fan who wrote this about a United player (from the linked article):

"He genuinely thinks he's Xavi. That is literally what he thinks.

In short: Tom, just please, please, please, please, please, please, please go to Sunderland as soon as possible. I hope your injury is a lengthy and painful one."

Edit: Considering the amount of unwarranted abuse that Cleverley has gotten this season from fans like Zerks and Callum it's hardly surprising that he's had his say to defend himself. Nothing Cleverley has said there was unreasonable. It's probably not the best idea to get involved in a dialogue with fans and media about his own abilities, because it is a pointless argument, but it's understandable that he wants to stand up for himself.

WallyGUFC

No

The way it's going we won't even qualify for Europa League. If that's the case, there is no option but to sack him. Likewise if we lose to Olympiacos (which could conceivably happen.) Moyes just isn't big enough for United, and the football is shocking to watch. It's not exciting watching us anymore. Remember Macheda's last minute winner. All the late comebacks. 3 down to Spurs and winning 5-3. Ronaldo and his class. Now it's Darren Bent scoring in Fergie time at OT. What a sad situation...

bassy

No

A club like united dont belong in the euro Disney Europa league,I would prefer to finish 7th or 8th to avoid that Disney farce.

moyes was the wrong man for the job even before he got it.

UnitedIrishman

No

Your Airbag wrote: »

UTD were poor by UTD standards but usually its enough to beat Fulham. With the odds and stats so heavily stacked in our favor Fulham had to have defended well.

A lot of those crosses were poor from the point of view they didn't reach their target. We have all seen the arrow stats of our crossing where only four got through. They didn't get through because Fulham defended well, cleared the danger 1st ball danger well and were there for the 2nd ball follow on, this happens through concentration and good communication. You can't deny their diligence yesterday when dealing with wave after wave of attack.

Head in stand stuff there.

By United standards its enough to beat Fulham?

No. It's not.

Fulham defended well because they knew exactly what to do and knew how limited tactically our manager is. They watched the Stoke game, they watched any game we've played this year and realised that our manager is clueless and if they packed the box and in front of the box that we had no answer. Simple as that.

Show me a video of United playing all season and I could do the same knowing what RVP and Rooney are capable of. **** me Stoke have done it to us loads of times when Fergie was there, but we've still tried to play ball.

UnitedIrishman

No

Pro. F wrote: »

Remember the name Callum Hamilton, that is the fan who wrote this about a United player (from the linked article):

Like your say.. if you read it in isolation it doesn't read like that gimp says at all. It's actually pathetic.

Liam O

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

Head in stand stuff there.

By United standards its enough to beat Fulham?

No. It's not.

Fulham defended well because they knew exactly what to do and knew how limited tactically our manager is. They watched the Stoke game, they watched any game we've played this year and realised that our manager is clueless and if they packed the box and in front of the box that we had no answer. Simple as that.

Show me a video of United playing all season and I could do the same knowing what RVP and Rooney are capable of. **** me Stoke have done it to us loads of times when Fergie was there, but we've still tried to play ball.

United barely beat Fulham last season in both games. Very dodgy situation. It was a bad performance but United were able to ride these things out last season for some reason. Probably because of a more settled back 4 all things considered. Looking at yesterday in comparison to recent games with Fulham it was actually probably United's best 90 minute performance against Fulham in a while against a much better Fulham than have been present in recent times. You can't put the overall shítness down to luck this season but yesterday was bad luck.

UnitedIrishman

No

Liam O wrote: »

United barely beat Fulham last season in both games. Very dodgy situation. It was a bad performance but United were able to ride these things out last season for some reason. Probably because of a more settled back 4 all things considered. Looking at yesterday in comparison to recent games with Fulham it was actually probably United's best 90 minute performance against Fulham in a while against a much better Fulham than have been present in recent times. You can't put the overall shítness down to luck this season but yesterday was bad luck.

Right. First off, there's no such thing as bad luck. Not when you're in 7th place in the league. That's been the excuse pedaled by Moyes all year, that we haven't had the rub of the green etc. You're a top squad.. you don't allow luck become a factor - we haven't rode luck for the last 20 years. Yesterday wasn't bad luck. It was us hoofing balls into the box when we didn't need to. It was a left back that shouldn't be playing. It was a center half that is past it heading out of defence. It's stuff a manager is postion to deal with.

Last season Fulham weren't bottom of the table. They weren't in absolutely pathetic form having lost to a team midweek that are bottom of League One and they weren't behind us in terms of preparation by 3-4 days.

There is no way anybody can defend Sunday. So it's ridiculous to even try.

spiralism

No

Liam O wrote: »

United barely beat Fulham last season in both games. Very dodgy situation. It was a bad performance but United were able to ride these things out last season for some reason. Probably because of a more settled back 4 all things considered. Looking at yesterday in comparison to recent games with Fulham it was actually probably United's best 90 minute performance against Fulham in a while against a much better Fulham than have been present in recent times. You can't put the overall shítness down to luck this season but yesterday was bad luck.

Last season is irrelevant. Last season we were champions. This season they're last, we're 7th. We look like ****, they're bottom and lost to a league one side a few days before. We couldn't beat them at Old Trafford.

Yeah we were unlucky Sunday, should have had a penalty and RVP wasted a gift in the dying minutes. Doesn't matter. We're not in the moral victory business, we're in the results business, and the result on Sunday was two points dropped at home to the last placed team, one that had almost no possession or attacking play of note. I dont care if we had bad luck sunday, we shouldn't need it against relegation candidates at home who barely saw the ball for 90 minutes. That's the issue.

As a fan who had varied forms of optimism about Moye's United project up until recently, I feel he must come out fighting on Wednesday night and beyond to have any chance of seeing past this season as club manager. Never mind the sniping and schadenfreude of ABUs which always came about even when we'd lost one amidst a run of wins in the pre-Moyes era - Yesterday the footballing world; fans, pundits, machines and professionals alike turned, pointed at David Moyes and Manchester United and shouted "YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG...BADLY!"

Fulham seems to have been the tipping point for a fair amount of fans, but that Stoke game absolutely stabbed me in the balls. There were times during it, like when Charlie Adam was on the brink of becoming the first Stoke player to score a hatrick against Man United since the days of Newton Heath LYR Football Club, that I could just literally see it all coming apart. And yes I mean literally in its true literal meaning. Either the players are akin to young children, absolutely devastated, lost and beyond recovery from the departure of their paternal figure, or that his replacement just simply can't get the pieces to fit. Which of those in all honesty seems the most likely? Actually rather than 'not getting the pieces to fit', it now seems that there is a stubbornness in Moyes persistence with these tactics and a refusal to try anything but this one style of "football". If 80 odd crosses against fúcking Fulham gets you zero return, well then that should be the time to make severe tactical changes from that very moment on.

That is of course if David Moyes has any fúcks left to give about keeping his job at Old Trafford and not becoming a harsh and poignant tale in decades to come similar to that of Frank O'Farrell. His whole demeanor is one of complete defeat by now. Surely David if you are so bewildered and deflated, then you are willing to do anything to win and save the best job you will ever have? Even if that resorts to trying something outlandish like getting our very limited journeymen i.e. Mata, Rooney, RVP, Januzaj, Kagawa to play a passing game on the ground that approaches our opponents goal more or less head on? I know I'm gonna get slated for such a suggestion!

Ahhh fúck sake, I really thought it would come right. All I was looking for this season was for us not to become the whipping boys of the league, becoming closer to relegation than first in the process, while playing some of the worst looking football in the league. Forget the league, in 25 years of following this football club closely with passion, I genuinely can't remember a spell where we played such unattractive football. David Moyes has the team playing like his Everton team? We wish.

For me, I need to see him clearly change the style of play. If this results in us being beaten 4-3 on Wednesday night, then so be it. The man has to show that he's willing to admit that he's wrong. At this stage he should know right well a 6 year contract isn't worth the paper it was signed on, no matter what support he feels he has from the board or Fergie. I feel and fear for the man, but the former is fading and the latter is growing with each minute that he refuses to ignore the obvious. The dressing room has to be quickly fading out of his field of vision at this point, with social media rumblings from a few notable current squad members.

I firmly believe that we had more hope of landing all 3 of Kroos, Gundogan and Vidal in January than we do in finding and signing an appropriate replacement for Moyes at this stage of the season. United put all of their eggs in the Moyes basket and there is no quick fix for the current situation. In saying that, I believe that bringing back Fergie, apart from in a relegation battle scenario, would be a very bad thing to do in terms of future progression. Moyes should see the season out, not because we're Manchester United and we gave the last guy 26 years, but because I really do think having to replace him within the first season was an unforeseen event in the club's collective mind, therefore I think there is absolutely no preparation or groundwork laid for him being sacked in at least the coming weeks. But surely by now, there has to be a 'Plan B' birthing in the minds of the decision-makers and owners of the club for the growing likelihood that the club could continue on the downward spiral its been on since January.

Hmm...onto Wednesday. Can we get a result at the Emirates? I think it was Vermaelen who said that after Saturday's loss to Liverpool it was the angriest he had seen Arsene Wenger in all his years at the club. Man they are going to be playing as if they are being chased by the devil at the Emirates. Us? I unfortunately don't see the energy or will in Moyes now to administer such a bollocking or a willingness to adapt. Outside of this change in style I'm talking about, I don't see us getting anything from this game. Maybe a few of the Arsenal ball-boys will get a good run around the corner flag at the United end. It's unfortunate that its at the point where I will be cheering the team and manager on just like any other game, but now I will have instant acceptance if we are beaten, and beaten well.

Come on to fúck Manchester United and David Moyes, I don't ask for much and did anticipate some speed bumps in the post-Ferguson era, but you owe every fan of Manchester United much better than this ongoing display of a huge club in disarray.

spiralism

No

Well said mate. This club is too big to become a laughing stock and Moyes needs to man the **** up and accept some responsibility instead of running from it. If you're going to keep freezing in the spotlight instead of giving us something, anything to make us back you then it's time to put both hands up, admit the job is ahead of you, do the honourable thing and resign.

I'm going to start all my sentences with "For me.." from now on.

Liam O

While I agree with a lot of what stankratz is saying, the United playing the same as Everton thing is not true. I actually wish Moyes United were playing the same tactics as his Everton team. He has the players to do it. If Rooney was put out wide in the Mirallas role, Kagawa through the middle and Mata where Pienaar played surely there would be an improvement. Before someone comes up with the Rooney crap out wide argument, he gets a lot of productivity from the right when he plays there, at least in previous seasons. Honestly it's past time to set up in a manner that is based on just beating whoever the team is playing, whether it be Fulham, City or whoever. The players are playing like they have no humility and they are responsible for that. Blame Moyes for motivation ok but a lot of players have really let themselves down this season. I can't believe at this stage I wouldn't be too upset if Javier Hernandez left United. At this stage last season I'd have almost welled up at the suggestion but him and other's performances have gone so far backwards you'd think their own pride would elevate them somewhat. A lot of players have purely embarrassed themselves this season.

Edit: read it again and he wasn't saying that we play like Everton so I guess I pretty much agree with everything

Nalz

No

stankratz wrote: »

As a fan who had varied forms of optimism about Moye's United project up until recently, I feel he must come out fighting on Wednesday night and beyond to have any chance of seeing past this season as club manager. Never mind the sniping and schadenfreude of ABUs which always came about even when we'd lost one amidst a run of wins in the pre-Moyes era - Yesterday the footballing world; fans, pundits, machines and professionals alike turned, pointed at David Moyes and Manchester United and shouted "YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG...BADLY!"

Fulham seems to have been the tipping point for a fair amount of fans, but that Stoke game absolutely stabbed me in the balls. There were times during it, like when Charlie Adam was on the brink of becoming the first Stoke player to score a hatrick against Man United since the days of Newton Heath LYR Football Club, that I could just literally see it all coming apart. And yes I mean literally in its true literal meaning.

3 things

Was ferociously windy vs Stoke
Carrick was awarded the own goal in the end
Darren Bentley managed a hattrick vs us few years back

niallo27

No

Trilla wrote: »

3 things

Was ferociously windy vs Stoke
Carrick was awarded the own goal in the end
Darren Bentley managed a hattrick vs us few years back

Don't forget about Dirk.

Nalz

No

niallo27 wrote: »

Don't forget about Dirk.

Hi

Giggsy11

It's so obvious that Moyes has lost the support of few senior players. Mostly the players who won't be at the club next season.

Vidic is leaving, Evra for sure. Rio will either retire or leave and anyways he isn't included in any match day squad, Hernandez for sure after his updates on instagram, Zaha didn't do himself any favors at all with his caption contest.

Blatter

No

Giggsy11 wrote: »

It's so obvious that Moyes has lost the support of few senior players. Mostly the players who won't be at the club next season.

Vidic is leaving, Evra for sure. Rio will either retire or leave and anyways he isn't included in any match day squad, Hernandez for sure after his updates on instagram, Zaha didn't do himself any favors at all with his caption contest.

I don't really see how he can have the support of the other players at the club either. As has been said, he's turning the club into a laughing stock, there's no way the majority can respect him and believe in what he's trying to do. Apart from Rooney (who he has indulged big time this season in the media and is seemingly considering handing him the captaincy), there have been very few players that have recently backed him publicly.