Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod Warning: Post #7871

MagicMarker

zerks wrote: »

Cleverley's given an interview to Oliver Holt,to call it cringeworthy would be generous.

http://thebusbybabe.sbnation.com/2014/2/11/5399412/tom-cleverley-gives-a-shameful-embarrassing-interview-with-oliver-holt

What a horribly bitter article. Personally I won't pay any attention to it until I read the ACTUAL interview.

Giggsy11

Blatter wrote: »

I don't really see how he can have the support of the other players at the club either. As has been said, he's turning the club into a laughing stock, there's no way the majority can respect him and believe in what he's trying to do. Apart from Rooney (who he has indulged big time this season in the media and is seemingly considering handing him the captaincy), there have been very few players that have recently backed him publicly.

Yes. Also Rio, Evra are popular in the dressing room so I'm sure there is so much unrest in the team.

Saucy McKetchup

No

Here's the full Tom Cleverley interview, interestingly he says Moyes wants him in a disciplined position as a defensive midfielder, he clearly doesn't like it

beno619

No

As one of his biggest critics on here have to admit it's been over the top at times and probably just wrong.

He's been carrying out the instructions of the manager which has in term made him look more limited than he is.

Cleverley's performances this year are a byproduct of Moyes awful management.

Saucy McKetchup

No

beno619 wrote: »

As one of his biggest critics on here have to admit it's been over the top at times and probably just wrong.

He's been carrying out the instructions of the manager which has in term made him look more limited than he is.

Cleverley's performances this year are a byproduct of Moyes awful management.

There'd be no point buying a Vidal or a Kroos during the summer as they'd be made sit back in a rigid defensive midfield position which in turn suggests that Moyes is going to stick with wingers, the more I think of it the more I'm beginning to hate Moyes

Crimson King

No

Was just thinking this morning, that if United board do the right thing and relieve Moyes of his position in the summer this season could well be a blessing in disguise. I don't think any manager worth his salt (Mourhino included) would have wanted last summer to take over the mantle from the greatest manager of all time and runaway Champions last season as no matter what they did this season it would have been expected.

Now United are as some folks here describe them 'a laughing stock', that pressure is gone. With the squad that is there and United's financial position greatly improved lately the club are a lot more attractive to manage now. Imagine someone like Klopp who wants to build a 'project', well he won't be under pressure to sell his best players every Summer and will have the finances to compete with the best. just a thought but the pressure of taking over the club is now gone, the one good thing about this season tbh.

Leftist

No

Crimson King wrote: »

Was just thinking this morning, that if United board do the right thing and relieve Moyes of his position in the summer this season could well be a blessing in disguise. I don't think any manager worth his salt (Mourhino included) would have wanted last summer to take over the mantle from the greatest manager of all time and runaway Champions last season as no matter what they did this season it would have been expected.

Now United are as some folks here describe them 'a laughing stock', that pressure is gone. With the squad that is there and United's financial position greatly improved lately the club are a lot more attractive to manage now. Imagine someone like Klopp who wants to build a 'project', well he won't be under pressure to sell his best players every Summer and will have the finances to compete with the best. just a thought but the pressure of taking over the club is now gone, the one good thing about this season tbh.

while it is a good point. it will be a few years before united sack him.

can you honestly see this man going back on this speech after one year?
(Ferguson's Get behind him speech)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbtyQug8AHI

he dug himself into a hole and he won't back down for years.

Maximus Alexander

zerks wrote: »

Cleverley's given an interview to Oliver Holt,to call it cringeworthy would be generous.

http://thebusbybabe.sbnation.com/2014/2/11/5399412/tom-cleverley-gives-a-shameful-embarrassing-interview-with-oliver-holt

Article itself was far more cringeworthy than anything Cleverley said.

eyescreamcone

There is going to be a lot of sh1t thrown at Moyes when the likes of Rio, Vidic and Evra leave in the summer.

When they are out the door the gags will come off.
I can't see him surviving the comparison with the previous manager by respected players

Its All Wright

Only way Moyes is going if he walks..if he walks then it doesn't reflect bad on Fergie who said get behind him and the club who prides itself on giving managers time. If things get really bad like being knocked out if the champions league this month & another 5 or 6 bad league results then i think Moyes will know its best he walks away

Jesus Wept

Saucy McKetchup wrote: »

There'd be no point buying a Vidal or a Kroos during the summer as they'd be made sit back in a rigid defensive midfield position which in turn suggests that Moyes is going to stick with wingers, the more I think of it the more I'm beginning to hate Moyes

They'd probably only go to a club with champions league football.

Discodog

It's bad enough without having to look at the word Etihad in the advert at the bottom of this page.

Maximus Alexander

Our Year wrote: »

They'd probably only go to a club with champions league football.

They'll go wherever the mon£y is.

Your Airbag

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

Right. First off, there's no such thing as bad luck.

Yes there is and we have had our fair share of it. Its not responsible for where we are but there has been some real unlucky moments.

Saucy McKetchup

No

Our Year wrote: »

They'd probably only go to a club with champions league football.

Here's 200k a week, you're a guaranteed starter and one of many top players coming in, you'll also be playing for the most decorated club in England with the biggest stadium;)

Delboy5

Interesting read from Andy Mitten

http://espnfc.com/blog/_/name/manchesterunited/id/4290?cc=5739

eyescreamcone

eyescreamcone wrote: »

There is going to be a lot of sh1t thrown at Moyes when the likes of Rio, Vidic and Evra leave in the summer.

When they are out the door the gags will come off.
I can't see him surviving the comparison with the previous manager by respected players

These players are in decline and at the end of there careers it's about time they called it a day.

Rio is 35 and has long past his sell by date.
Evra is 32 and does not have the stamina required anymore.
Vidic is 32 and may only have 1 other opurtunity to join another club before he retires.

Mitch Connor

No

Saucy McKetchup wrote: »

Here's 200k a week, you're a guaranteed starter and one of many top players coming in, you'll also be playing for the most decorated club in England with the biggest stadium;)

It could work - but they will also have offers such as:

Here is 200k a week, you'll be a starter in a CL competing team, with loads of other quality players, playing for one of (or the) best side in France/Germany/Spain/England.

Said it all through January - the lack of transfer activity in Jan, seemingly based on an assumption that we will get Vidal and Kroos et al in the summer was dellusionary, imo,

Saucy McKetchup

No

Mitch Connor wrote: »

It could work - but they will also have offers such as:

Here is 200k a week, you'll be a starter in a CL competing team, with loads of other quality players, playing for one of (or the) best side in France/Germany/Spain/England.

Said it all through January - the lack of transfer activity in Jan, seemingly based on an assumption that we will get Vidal and Kroos et al in the summer was dellusionary, imo,

I think we've already made the first steps to signing a few players, well it might be more hope than anything at this stage

Maximus Alexander

While I have no hope of any change for the better in what's left of this season, I'm fairly excited for next season. I hope I'm not being naive, but I can see big changes coming.

I'm fairly convinced that a lot of the problems this season stem from some of the old guard not being arsed to prove themselves to a new manager when they know they're on their way out and they've already won everything at the club. I can see a lot of players out and a lot of new ones in this summer, and that means next season is going to be interesting.

I still can't really see Moyes ever covering himself in glory, but as much as I will be lambasted for this, I wouldn't completely rule it out either once he has assembled his own squad with the kind of funds he should have available. Either way, I trust him to make solid purchases - I think he's good at finding talent - and that means that even if he goes next year I think he will leave a good foundation for his successor to build upon.

This season is shit, but I'm still totally optimistic about the future.

keane2097

No

zerks wrote: »

Cleverley's given an interview to Oliver Holt,to call it cringeworthy would be generous.

http://thebusbybabe.sbnation.com/2014/2/11/5399412/tom-cleverley-gives-a-shameful-embarrassing-interview-with-oliver-holt

I don't know how anyone could click that link, read its contents and come back thinking Tom Cleverley is the person who should be embarrassed about it. Baffling.

Leftist

No

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

While I have no hope of any change for the better in what's left of this season, I'm fairly excited for next season. I hope I'm not being naive, but I can see big changes coming.

I'm fairly convinced that a lot of the problems this season stem from some of the old guard not being arsed to prove themselves to a new manager when they know they're on their way out and they've already won everything at the club. I can see a lot of players out and a lot of new ones in this summer, and that means next season is going to be interesting.

I still can't really see Moyes ever covering himself in glory, but as much as I will be lambasted for this, I wouldn't completely rule it out either once he has assembled his own squad with the kind of funds he should have available. Either way, I trust him to make solid purchases - I think he's good at finding talent - and that means that even if he goes next year I think he will leave a good foundation for his successor to build upon.

This season is shit, but I'm still totally optimistic about the future.

good for you. I expect moyes will be in a position to get 4th next season.

some of us will be extremely happy with that.

that's the level he is taking us, long term.

do you think, after he loses the old guard, ie some defenders, that he will change his style of play which we have all been subjected to this season?

does he need to get rid of RVP, Rooney, Januzaj or Mata to make the forward play better?

it's horrific.

TheDoc

keane2097 wrote: »

I don't know how anyone could click that link, read its contents and come back thinking Tom Cleverley is the person who should be embarrassed about it. Baffling.

Agreed

I wrote a little about Cleverly last week, and I guess the interview somewhat confirms my thoughts. He is being asked to play in a mroe controlled defensive position, which sometimes explains his reluctance to move forward and at times "confusion" on the pitch.

I genuinelly hope this makes him a stronger person and he uses all the hate and abuse as a self motivational tool. I firmly believe he has ability, and Moyes obviously sees the traits for his stamina and terrier like nature hunting the ball to play in a more defensive capacity.

Can be the sort of situation that breaks a player who leaves, or makes a player who becomes important. I remember alot of guff Fletcher used to get from United fans, then he turned into our most critical component on the pitch during big games.

Maximus Alexander

Leftist wrote: »

good for you. I expect moyes will be in a position to get 4th next season.

some of us will be extremely happy with that.

Well that's great then if even the most despondent among us are somewhat optimistic!

Leftist wrote: »

do you think, after he loses the old guard, ie some defenders, that he will change his style of play which we have all been subjected to this season?

Yes, I do. I can't explain what we've seen this season tactically, but I also don't think it's the best he has to offer. I also can't see how anyone who has watched a football match could reflect on this season through a whole summer and then not do things differently next year.

wonderfullife

No

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Article itself was far more cringeworthy than anything Cleverley said.

There's certain journalists who do condescending, preachy, know-it-all, extremely well and have punchable heads!

Ollie Holt is pretty much at the top of that list.

"English fans had clamoured for a young player who keeps the ball and moves it quickly and efficiently in transition....Then, when they got on, they run him out of town".

Cleverley???! lol. Quick and efficient movement of the ball? Back to the goalie maybe, he does that quickly and efficiently.

That article actually makes Cleverley sound like the Second Coming of Pirlo! Give me a break. He's been "run out of town" i.e. slagged off because he earns a fortune for things most pros can do and is not good enough for Manchester United!

KH25

No

That article is dreadful. Cleverley gets a bit too much stick IMO. I had high hopes for him but unfortunately he hasn't really done it for United. That in itself is not a crime. The team has had many players over the years who just weren't United standard, but were good enough for other English clubs.

Personally, I think Cleverley is a good squad option to have. I wouldn't be rushing to sell him but I also wouldn't be putting him the first 11.

Your Airbag

The Holt interview is not too bad, its the its the spin on the interview from that fan site that is over the top. Some of the blame directed at him is over the top and his workrate and desire have never been under question. Its his over all ability and qualitites that are.

With all that considered I did cringe a bit when he said "players in Spain get applauded for passing the ball sideways". Thats because its at the right time and in between some forward passing.

Clev does take a lot of flak but so does Welbeck, Evra, Carrick and others. He is on 40k a week and when you are not preforming well you can expect flak. I'm not sure why he gave the interview and feels the need to tell us it hurts. He would have been better off concentrating on improving than letting us know the stick hurts.

At the end of the day there is no escaping the fact that he is a very mediocre footballer. You look at our past MFs, Keane, Scholes etc and its easy to see Clev doesn't come close to them. He's not UTD quality and should be moved on to make space for some quality players.

Eathrin

No

Hint: It's Januzaj

Maximus Alexander

Janet Jazz... Sounds like a stripper.

Giggsy11

Our Year wrote: »

They'd probably only go to a club with champions league football.

And you can never be sure whether the teams that qualify for CL this season will qualify next season. CL plays a part in players moving but IMO the biggest factor is wages and then everything like stature of the club, manager, playing squad, CL takes back seat.

Your Airbag

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Janet Jazz... Sounds like a stripper.

Her pornstar sister is Janet Jizz



I'll show my self out


but seriously Janet jazz jazz jam is the greatest thing ever spoken, we only refer to the kid as this now, right guys?

Mitch Connor

No

Giggsy11 wrote: »

And you can never be sure whether the teams that qualify for CL this season will qualify next season. CL plays a part in players moving but IMO the biggest factor is wages and then everything like stature of the club, manager, playing squad, CL takes back seat.

Well, in reality you can in a lot of cases.

Real Madrid
Barcelona
Bayern Munich
PSG
Monaco

All very safe bets for CL football.

City and Chelsea would be as well. Arsenal/Liverpool/United (if we get back to some sort of level again) would be decent bets but one of them won't make it per season - under Fergie we were as safe a bet as any to make the CL.

LuckyLloyd

No

bucketybuck wrote: »

Just thinking about things today, its really going to be a shock to the system next season when that Champions league music starts playing on a Tuesday night and we realise that we are not in it. Ever since the Cup winners cup in '92 European football has been a staple of my season and its going to be a huge loss to see Europes biggest competition going forward without one of its biggest clubs.

Then I remembered how much criticism Wenger got over the last 8 years for not winning anything. And how even in the worst of their slumps, even when loyal fans were calling for his head and their best players were leaving, even then Arsenal were still able to qualify for the ****ing Champions league.

I didn't think it was actually ****ing possible for one of the big English clubs to not qualify, the gap between them and the rest was always so big. Look at Liverpool, having the season of their lives and still falling 5/6 points behind the big clubs as the season goes on! A bad season for one the top four is finishing in fourth and still probably well in front of fifth place.

It just put it into perspective for me how badly Moyes has handled this season. Taking the champions from 1st to 7th should not even have been possible, in fact it is actually a ****ing achievement of note! If you had been told this pre-season you would have said it couldn't be done, because even in their worst nightmares the big four clubs were up in a mini league of their own.

David Moyes, take a bow son.

Some choice statements here.

You might have noticed over the past decade Liverpool winning their fifth European Cup; rising to 1st place in the UEFA coefficient standings and then not qualifying for a half decade. Rest assured that is a concrete example of a 'big' club failing to qualify.

You may also note that the "top four" hasn't been nearly as solid as you claim during that period and the gap between fourth and fifth place is not as cavernous as you assume.

In February 2010 we were incredulous at what was happening too, welcome to reality.

Knex*

Eathrin wrote: »

Hint: It's Januzaj

Could Mark Lawrenson have a more punchable face?

I think not.

Giruilla

By far the most worrying thing about cleverly's interview is it seems to show Moyes/staff have't got on his back at all to develop his game and creativity.

It pains me to watch united when he plays.

Agueroooo

Mitch Connor wrote: »

City and Chelsea would be as well. Arsenal/Liverpool/United (if we get back to some sort of level again) would be decent bets but one of them won't make it per season - under Fergie we were as safe a bet as any to make the CL.

taking Liverpool from that list....

IF we get CL football then it is just another step along the long road of establishing ourselves as a regular again. which in itself is a huge task, so that is a good 5yrs away if I am honest.

Think its safe to say City & Chelsea will be the bankers for CL for the foreseeable future.
Arsenal (without Wenger) I would categorise along with LFC and Man Utd as possible Yo-Yo in and out of the competition over the medium term.
Arsenal (with Wenger) probably a banker as well for qualification.

Spurs (if they get their **** together) will also be amongst of three (Utd,LFC,Spurs) that will be scrapping for 4th.

so taking it all into account the only thing that I think has/will change over the next few years is that Utd will have been dragged out of the category for guaranteed qualification, and now scrapping with the likes of Spurs and Liverpool for that coveted 4th spot.

It really comes down to whoever over the next few years will get their act together, and with Utds resources I wouldn't bet against them rebuilding, and surpassing at the faster rate.

beno619

No

Giruilla wrote: »

By far the most worrying thing about cleverly's interview is it seems to show Moyes/staff have't got on his back at all to develop his game and creativity.

It pains me to watch united when he plays.

Moyes is happy to restrict his game, let alone encourage positive play. Cleverley is not the type of player Moyes wants him to be.

bucketybuck

No

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Some choice statements here.

You might have noticed over the past decade Liverpool winning their fifth European Cup; rising to 1st place in the UEFA coefficient standings and then not qualifying for a half decade. Rest assured that is a concrete example of a 'big' club failing to qualify.

I couldn't give a toss about Liverpool and whether you think they are big or not, so dry your eyes.

KH25

No

Remember when Cleverley and Anderson played the Community Shield v City and there was all that lovely intricate passing, small triangles etc. Really thought that was a sign of the direction the club was taking.

Cantona's Collars

keane2097 wrote: »

I don't know how anyone could click that link, read its contents and come back thinking Tom Cleverley is the person who should be embarrassed about it. Baffling.

Didn't pay too much heed to the rant inbetween the bits Cleverley said,still it shows the mindset of too many English players who have an inflated sense of their capabilities.They all seem to be brought up in the game thinking "young,English = best in the world",the media has a lot to answer to but some of the stuff Clev says is just fantasy.

Fletcher used to get the stick Cleverley is now getting but he never did interviews proclaiming how good he is,he knuckled down & built on his strengths & progressed as a result.Cleverley shows no sign of doing this.

ArmaniJeanss

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Well, in reality you can in a lot of cases.

Real Madrid
Barcelona
Bayern Munich

Its worth pointing out that these clubs have failed to qualify for the CL via their league at least once in the last 15 years. 3 of the biggest 4/5 names in European football. Going down the list of big clubs no Italian team has been ever present, and even Chelsea needed to win the CL to qualify after a league failure.

That United were always a comfortable qualifier is part of the absolutely incredible achievement of Ferguson.
That (some) United fans believed that the worst that could happen is that they would continue to comfortably finish top 4 at a minimum is a sign of delusion/denial with how football can kick you. Welcome to the real world.

Giruilla

KH25 wrote: »

Remember when Cleverley and Anderson played the Community Shield v City and there was all that lovely intricate passing, small triangles etc. Really thought that was a sign of the direction the club was taking.

Remember the 8-2 arsenal game (albeit a piss poor Arsenal side).. Cleverly seems an entirely different player to then.

Giggsy11

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Well, in reality you can in a lot of cases.

Real Madrid
Barcelona
Bayern Munich
PSG
Monaco

All very safe bets for CL football.

City and Chelsea would be as well. Arsenal/Liverpool/United (if we get back to some sort of level again) would be decent bets but one of them won't make it per season - under Fergie we were as safe a bet as any to make the CL.

Chelsea finished 6th just 2 seasons ago, you can never be sure in this league anymore. Agreed with Madrid, Barca and Bayern but I was talking with PL in mind.

Maximus Alexander

zerks wrote: »

Didn't pay too much heed to the rant inbetween the bits Cleverley said,still it shows the mindset of too many English players who have an inflated sense of their capabilities.They all seem to be brought up in the game thinking "young,English = best in the world",the media has a lot to answer to but some of the stuff Clev says is just fantasy.

Fletcher used to get the stick Cleverley is now getting but he never did interviews proclaiming how good he is,he knuckled down & built on his strengths & progressed as a result.Cleverley shows no sign of doing this.

Bit skewed to present what he said as "proclaiming how good he is". All he's really saying is that he's doing what he's told, he's not as bad as people are making out, and he doesn't deserve the **** that is flung at him.

And he's right. He's no Roy Keane, but then that's hardly his fault. It's not for lack of trying.

KH25

No

Giruilla wrote: »

Remember the 8-2 arsenal game (albeit a piss poor Arsenal side).. Cleverly seems an entirely different player to then.

That wasn't even a comment about Cleverley per se. All this talk about him just reminded me of that game. Its sad that we moved away from that type of football when he have the players to do it (Rooney, Kags, Jan, Mata, Nani etc). On top of that its really how strong teams play these days (Liverpool v Arsenal at the weekend for instance, no time for Arsenal on the ball and fast passing on the attack)

Cantona's Collars

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Bit skewed to present what he said as "proclaiming how good he is". All he's really saying is that he's doing what he's told, he's not as bad as people are making out, and he doesn't deserve the **** that is flung at him.

And he's right. He's no Roy Keane, but then that's hardly his fault. It's not for lack of trying.

If by trying you mean passing the ball square,standing still & waving his arms around?

Although in fairness there's a few others who haven't been trying lately.

tallaghtmick

No

So Hernandez, Zaha, Rio, Johnstone and now Cleverley all mouth off or have something cryptic on social media/press really tells me there is something up behind the scenes, the players are not happy.....

*Open to correction as its all a theory

zerks

zerks wrote: »

If by trying you mean passing the ball square,standing still & waving his arms around?

Although in fairness there's a few others who haven't been trying lately.

Passing the ball square because he's directed to do so, as in get it to the by line. And in fairness he's still giving 100% no matter how much it may annoy me looking at him passing it square.
Compare that to the lacklustre perfomances from Evra for example. He has been at fault for mutiple goals conceeded this season and just looks like he couldn't be arsed anymore.

Nalz

No

Knex. wrote: »

Could Mark Lawrenson have a more punchable face?

I think not.

Yes he could, he could have Keowns
'
Imo

TheDoc

tallaghtmick wrote: »

So Hernandez, Zaha, Rio, Johnstone and now Cleverley all mouth off or have something cryptic on social media/press really tells me there is something up behind the scenes, the players are not happy.....

*Open to correction as its all a theory

Well I think it's pretty self explanatory.

Chico isn't getting his game, isn't good enough imo, and will never get ahead of a fit RVP or Rooney. Can see why he is miffed, but it's from a player who is frustrated with lack of gametime. But doesn't really justify getting any.

Rio is pretty much done. Great servant, great defender, but Moyes doesn't fancy him and I agree. He had his watershed moment this year, and isn't strong enough or fit enough to play CB for us.

Cleverly getting alot of flack and being made a scapegoat. Explaining he is being given specific instructions, totally get his defensive stance at present.

Anderson has a little swipe, after being a complete waste of space, sucking up wages for his injury stricken tenure at the club.


The players who are actually our heavy hitters, the players who have an immediate future a the club, Rooney, RVP, Mata, Jan, Fletcher, Carrick. Have all had positive things to say about the manager at a point this season.


I don't read much into players about to exit having little stroppy sly remarks. Sometimes big long serving players struggle to deal with the powers dwindling, or their exodus ariving.