Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod Warning: Post #7871

tallaghtmick

No

DeanAustin wrote: »

Football fans always get this sort of stuff out of proportion. I heard a lot of Liverpool fans say that Hodgson/Dalglish had set them back years in terms of CL qualification. Yet one full season of Rodgers and they are now challenging for top 4.

The amount of times I heard "Staunton set Ireland back decades" was painful. Yet Trap came in and had us challenging for qualification straight away.

If you genuinely believe Man U have been set back to the 80s, then you weren't alive at that time.

You're a couple of players and a manager away from being a title contender.

Ermmmmm we won the league last year with this squad minus Fellaini and Mata.........

LuckyLloyd

No

Hulk Hands wrote: »

I'm ok with it. It's obviously crap when you're used to such ridiculous success but we had barren years from 03-06 and we came out of that stronger than ever. United are one of the biggest clubs in the world, and the biggest and most important in Britian by an absolute mile. I think logic states that theyre more likely to go back to success in the medium term than not. In 3-4 years if theyre laguishing in mid table ill worry. Otherwise, after the unparalleled success the club has given us in the last 20 years, they deserve a bit of patience and time to get things right once more, which i'm sure they will.

I don't think anything in that period was near as bad as this season is proving to be thus far.

And many would disagree with the 'absolute mile' bit.

Overall though I commend your attitude and believe it is the correct one.

Cypher_sounds wrote: »

At least when we sell a forward to Real Madrid we have seen that we have enough quality to cope, can't say the same for certain other clubs when the time comes.

This season i kinda expected it to be a transition season after such a great club legend left his post and with the success he has had, again can't say the same for other some other clubs and their legends leaving their managerial position:pac:

Leaving aside the bitter barbs here, did you genuinely believe 'transition season' could have reached this level of performance and results? I would have thought this is playing out below even the most grounded of expectation levels?

Will I Amnt

No

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Indeed. How do you feel by the way? What's it like to be experiencing a season like this for the first time in your Utd supporting lifetime (my apologies if you're older than I assume)? I guess that's an open question to everyone on here - how difficult is the adjustment to not assuming you'll win with regularity, to not expecting the dying comeback?

It is interesting that you'll have a full generation of Utd fans being faced with their first genuinely poor season as a football supporter. I'd imagine there is a great book to be written on the topic, a modern day Fever Pitch.

I'm OK with it. I'm not going into meltdown mode like some.
I'm old enough to remember bad times btw although not old enough for it to have too much an effect.

I'm a patient man, this club will be back challenging for titles soon enough, more than likely under new management. Mistakes have to be made to learn from. There's too much money involved for it to fail.

DeanAustin

tallaghtmick wrote: »

Ermmmmm we won the league last year with this squad minus Fellaini and Mata.........

Yeah you did but there are a lot of factors at play here:

1. It was Fergie's team so naturally he was going to get a lot more out of that group than any other manager.
2. Fergie is the greatest manager of all time. He's gone.
3. The players are a year older. That makes a difference when you have people like Vidic, Rio, Evra and Carrick who are the wrong side of 30.
4. The likes of City and Chelsea are better than last season.

I'm not defending Moyes at all. He's not good enough for a club at United's level. But a lot of neutrals were looking at United's squad over the last few years and wondering how on earth they were always challenging. Fergie is the answer and once he went, you were always likely to have a bit of a nosedive (albeit it shouldn't be this severe).

Add a couple of players (LB, CB, CM) to your squad and a good manager (a Klopp, Hiddink, Jose type) and you boys will be right back in there.

paulbok

No

DeanAustin wrote: »

Football fans always get this sort of stuff out of proportion. I heard a lot of Liverpool fans say that Hodgson/Dalglish had set them back years in terms of CL qualification. Yet one full season of Rodgers and they are now challenging for top 4.

The amount of times I heard "Staunton set Ireland back decades" was painful. Yet Trap came in and had us challenging for qualification straight away.

If you genuinely believe Man U have been set back to the 80s, then you weren't alive at that time.

You're a couple of players and a manager away from being a title contender.

That's the point, a different manager.

bucketybuck

No

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

how difficult is the adjustment to not assuming you'll win with regularity, to not expecting the dying comeback?

The adjustment to not winning is easy. A transition year I can handle easily. Losing games I can handle, and have done so before.

I can handle all of this stuff when I can see the bigger picture. If the squad is lacking quality but the manager is taking steps to fix that then I can handle losing. If the team is playing poorly but I can see the signs of the managers long term strategy then I can handle losing. If we are midtable but I can see all the youth players being given a chance then I can handle losing.

What I can't handle is losing when there is no sign of any long term plan, when there is no sign of any improvement whatsoever, and when opportunities to fix problems with the squad have been wasted. Losing a football match is no big thing, happens to everybody, but when the bigger picture is as dire as it is with Moyes right now, that I cannot handle.

DeanAustin

DeanAustin wrote: »

I'm not defending Moyes at all. He's not good enough for a club at United's level. But a lot of neutrals were looking at United's squad over the last few years and wondering how on earth they were always challenging.

Well said

ricero

No

Does anyone think a bad result to arsenal could be the end of moyes ?

DeanAustin

paulbok wrote: »

That's the point, a different manager.

Yeah and I'd agree with that. But in the 80s United needed a lot more than just a change of manager. They whole club needed a massive overhaul. Fergie may not have left a wonderful squad but he left a club with fantastic foundations.

Julez

No

bucketybuck wrote: »

What I can't handle is losing when there is no sign of any long term plan, when there is no sign of any improvement whatsoever

I feel like we're getting worse if anything.

Kylo Ren

ricero wrote: »

Does anyone think a bad result to arsenal could be the end of moyes ?

No. He won't be gone before the Summer imo.

ricero

ricero wrote: »

Does anyone think a bad result to arsenal could be the end of moyes ?

@ 41 points anything other than a win at this stage is a bad result

Vic Vinegar

So who's going to be playing against Arsenal?

Jones, Cleverley and Fellaini are still out so our options for CM positions are Carrick, Fletcher and Giggs.

Not sure Fletch will be able for another full game so soon after the last one so it'll probably be Carrick & Giggs, Arsenal have a few key players out too at least so that will even it up a bit but they should still be strong favourites.

Cypher_sounds

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I don't think anything in that period was near as bad as this season is proving to be thus far.

And many would disagree with the 'absolute mile' bit.

Overall though I commend your attitude and believe it is the correct one.



Leaving aside the bitter barbs here, did you genuinely believe 'transition season' could have reached this level of performance and results? I would have thought this is playing out below even the most grounded of expectation levels?

No one could have imagined that we would be in the position we are in currently or that our performance on the pitch would be truly awful and not change from one game to the next which is the most worrying thing about Moyes management to date.

I think Moyes will get to next season and be given a chance with new players but if we start like we did this season he should sacked.

Agueroooo

Keno wrote: »

No. He won't be gone before the Summer imo.

I suspect Moyes will get the summer transfer window and the millions required, plus ample support required in it.

If the players brought in fail to perform then the common dominator will be clear, and he will be toast.

Nalz

No

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

You'll have to forgive me for taking a keen interest in the most fascinating story in world football right now!

Everytime u post it makes me smile, brings back that moment of u losing your shît in the aviva behind the goal at that simple fella that time. I welcome you posting here :-) forgive me for reminiscing a hilarious memory in what was a disappointing stadium for me!

paulbok

No

DeanAustin wrote: »

Yeah and I'd agree with that. But in the 80s United needed a lot more than just a change of manager. They whole club needed a massive overhaul. Fergie may not have left a wonderful squad but he left a club with fantastic foundations.

I'm not disagreeing that the club is in far, far better shape than when Fergie took over, but that with Moyes at the helm, he is bringing the club on a downward trajectory that is unprecedented in nearly 25 years.
The right manager will have serious resources to turn it around, but nothing about Moyes make me think he can do it even with £200m to spend.

Buckty Buck summed up the situation & expectations brilliantly, we didn't expect titles this or perhaps next year, but we damn well didn't expect the dross being served up at the moment.

Bombleswizzum

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

So who's going to be playing against Arsenal?

Jones, Cleverley and Fellaini are still out so our options for CM positions are Carrick, Fletcher and Giggs.

Not sure Fletch will be able for another full game so soon after the last one so it'll probably be Carrick & Giggs, Arsenal have a few key players out too at least so that will even it up a bit but they should still be strong favourites.

Would love to see this;

Carrick
Januzaj Mata Kagawa
Rooney
RVP

And leave Rafeal & Evra in defensive positions so they don't get exposed. Let Januzaj & Kagawa do the attacking down the flank. Let Mata try and pick out a decisive through ball to give us another option.

Blatter

No

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Indeed. How do you feel by the way? What's it like to be experiencing a season like this for the first time in your Utd supporting lifetime (my apologies if you're older than I assume)? I guess that's an open question to everyone on here - how difficult is the adjustment to not assuming you'll win with regularity, to not expecting the dying comeback?

It is interesting that you'll have a full generation of Utd fans being faced with their first genuinely poor season as a football supporter. I'd imagine there is a great book to be written on the topic, a modern day Fever Pitch.

- Bitterly disappointed as to how the season has gone.

- Puzzled by the media/a lot of the footballing world attributing a large portion of blame towards the quality of player at the club rather than recognising that the major problem is Moyes and the coaching staff. The squad contains young players or players at peak age like de Gea, van Persie, Rooney, Nani, Rafael, Fellaini, Mata, Kagawa, Hernandez, who have all shown at various stages in their careers that they have a lot of quality, to varying degrees. It has young players like Jones, Smalling, Januzaj and Welbeck that have buckets of potential and good current ability. It has good squad players like Evans, Young and Cleverley. The squad obviously has it's deficiencies but ****ing no where near as many that are made out. Moyes and the coaching staff have managed to convince so many people that it is well below standard through their shít management and moronic comments. This is especially frustrating.

- Hopeful that the situation will be seen for what it is by the owners and a new manager (of the required standard) will be brought in, sooner rather than later.

- Not really worried long term as the club's monstrous revenue and general resources should mean it can recover relatively quickly, even if it does take them a while longer to sack Moyes.

Vic Vinegar

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Would love to see this;

Carrick

Januzaj Mata Kagawa

Rooney
RVP

And leave Rafeal & Evra in defensive positions so they don't get exposed. Let Januzaj & Kagawa do the attacking down the flank. Let Mata try and pick out a decisive through ball to give us another option.

Nice idea, but as that would mean Moyes trying something new we'll have to assume that it won't happen!

At least we'll get some space to play in this game, it's not like Arsenal will pack their 18 yard box with players, the other side of the coin is we're pretty crap at defending so could quite easily leak more goals with little effort from the opposition.

Bombleswizzum

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

Nice idea, but as that would mean Moyes trying something new we'll have to assume that it won't happen!

At least we'll get some space to play in this game, it's not like Arsenal will pack their 18 yard box with players, the other side of the coin is we're pretty crap at defending so could quite easily leak more goals with little effort from the opposition.

I think I have said this already but it might suit us better if Arsenal have more of the ball. It might force us into a counter attack setup. All too often this season we are having too much of the ball while being directed to play the ball square thus slowing up the play and the space no longer becomes available. The by line then becomes the only option and it's hit and hope from then on. Also we completly disregard any attempt to play the ball to the forwards feet, making Rooney drop deeper and deeper.

kryogen

Wouldnt it have been lovely if he had kept Rene on, let him take the responsibility of the offensive unit/play and he look after the area he excelled at?

On paper they would have made a great management team, complimenting each others strengths

LuckyLloyd

No

kryogen wrote: »

Wouldnt it have been lovely if he had kept Rene on, let him take the responsibility of the offensive unit/play and he look after the area he excelled at?

On paper they would have made a great management team, complimenting each others strengths

There was a lot of bite to his post match interview on Sunday that much is for sure!!

Knex*

Would agree with Blatter's take on it, more or less, tbh.

In the Summer, when people started saying how United would fall as Fergie was gone and Moyes wasn't good enough, I laughed at them. I genuinely felt that even I could manage that United team to the Top 4.

There's just so much talent there it was ridiculous for me, even as a Liverpool fan, to think that they worst season they could have would be to finsh less than 4th.

The buck has to stop with the coaching staff and Moyes himself. This is more or less the same team that won the league last year. These players are no overhyped mugs. They just can't all be. Moyes is simply not getting even remotely enough out of them and the stage is quite frankly, too big for him. Dauntingly so.

Momentum can be built upon and improved - see Liverpool this season who despite having a small squad (arguably on paper our squad is maybe 5/6th best in league) our form and confidence is glossing over this issue. But it can certainly work the other way as seems to be the case with United. The players themselves seem to be stuck in a rut now at this stage.

Now, obviously the timing of it all for Moyes doesn't help. Key players aging and injuries to the likes of Rooney and RVP. But there really is still enough there that he should be nowhere near where he is now, and also he doesn't, for me, have anything in his CV that would indicate that he can set things right. He also still had the backing of the board for transfer deals that most managers can only dream of. Money thrown at Mata and Fellaini was massive.

United, for their sake, need to move on from him in the Summer, write this year off, and start a proper transitional stage with a manager who has a long term plan. They need someone with massive self belief, something I really don't think Moyes has. Someone who can go in there, replace the Vidic's, Evra's, Rio's, Gigg's etc, and stamp his authority on the team.

Now, the only issue is, can ye get such a man? The likes of Moyes, or a Hodgson type appointment, will only prolong the beginning of this transitional phase, which btw should not be long for a team of United's recent history/resources/players etc.

Anyway, just thought I'd fire my two cents into the mix.

MD1990

No

Blatter wrote: »

- Bitterly disappointed as to how the season has gone.

- Puzzled by the media/a lot of the footballing world attributing a large portion of blame towards the quality of player at the club rather than recognising that the major problem is Moyes and the coaching staff. The squad contains young players or players at peak age like de Gea, van Persie, Rooney, Nani, Rafael, Fellaini, Mata, Kagawa, Hernandez, who have all shown at various stages in their careers that they have a lot of quality, to varying degrees. It has young players like Jones, Smalling, Januzaj and Welbeck that have buckets of potential and good current ability. It has good squad players like Evans, Young and Cleverley. The squad obviously has it's deficiencies but ****ing no where near as many that are made out. Moyes and the coaching staff have managed to convince so many people that it is well below standard through their shít management and moronic comments. This is especially frustrating.

- Hopeful that the situation will be seen for what it is by the owners and a new manager (of the required standard) will be brought in, sooner rather than later.

- Not really worried long term as the club's monstrous revenue and general resources should mean it can recover relatively quickly, even if it does take them a while longer to sack Moyes.

i heard Gary Neville say in commentary that it isnt the management's fault & he was criticising Mata in commentry too saying he needs to do more.
if this was AVB he would be slated but since his brother is on the coaching staff the team is not good enough even though they won the league easily last season & deserved to beat Real in the CL
The fact is Moyes's tactics are 19th Century football & it isnt suited to the players he has or to a top club in general.
It also shows why alot of British coaches don't get big jobs in England as there coaching is terrible

tallaghtmick

No

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11667/9161547/premier-league-david-moyes-sticking-to-principles-as-manchester-united-prepare-to-face-arsenal


So cross cross cross cross cross cross cross = very angry boards posters.

spiralism

No

Blatter wrote: »

- Bitterly disappointed as to how the season has gone.

- Puzzled by the media/a lot of the footballing world attributing a large portion of blame towards the quality of player at the club rather than recognising that the major problem is Moyes and the coaching staff. The squad contains young players or players at peak age like de Gea, van Persie, Rooney, Nani, Rafael, Fellaini, Mata, Kagawa, Hernandez, who have all shown at various stages in their careers that they have a lot of quality, to varying degrees. It has young players like Jones, Smalling, Januzaj and Welbeck that have buckets of potential and good current ability. It has good squad players like Evans, Young and Cleverley. The squad obviously has it's deficiencies but ****ing no where near as many that are made out. Moyes and the coaching staff have managed to convince so many people that it is well below standard through their shít management and moronic comments. This is especially frustrating.

- Hopeful that the situation will be seen for what it is by the owners and a new manager (of the required standard) will be brought in, sooner rather than later.

- Not really worried long term as the club's monstrous revenue and general resources should mean it can recover relatively quickly, even if it does take them a while longer to sack Moyes.

This is also doing my ****ing head in. While i have doubts as to whether or not a couple of them are good enough for Utd (see Young, Ashley for one) the way they're being slaughtered isn't fair on a squad that dominated the league a year ago and that would in all fairness have won three titles on the spin only for a last minute freak result in May 2012. At least half the squad has at least played in a Champions league final. Moyes himself said it was a great squad, and even if it has it's deficiencies it's not to the point where we should be going from 1st to struggling for ****ing 7th. He's doing no better with the squad of the champions than he'd been doing for Everton, if not arguably worse. Why are people jumping down their throats? They brought a lot of success to the club. People need to realise that they're Man Utd fans instead of David Moyes fans before they throw proven winners under the bus for a coach who's out of his depth.

Maximus Alexander

tallaghtmick wrote: »

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11667/9161547/premier-league-david-moyes-sticking-to-principles-as-manchester-united-prepare-to-face-arsenal


So cross cross cross cross cross cross cross = very angry boards posters.

That is thoroughly uninspiring.

beno619

No

zerks wrote: »

Our style (lol) of play currently doesn't suit his game,even RVP & Rooney are finding it hard work to convert any chances created.The clever play that we expect to see is pretty much non-existent.Get it wide and lash it in isn't what strikers thrive on.We are simply crossing for crossings sake,look back when Becks played for us,he actually aimed for the strikers or the space where they were running into,now it's as if the lads crossing the ball are blindfolded.

I dont disagree with any of what you say. Im just pointing out how little he has played and how he has been mismanaged imo.

Him contribution outside of scoring has improved as well.

Backstreet Moyes

One thing i do trust Moyes to do is identify the right players needed and hopefully he can bring in some big name signings. If he makes some good signings and after 6 or 7 games next season the tactics and performances are the same he needs to go.

But on the other side is if you give Moyes a massive warchest and he gets the sack, the new manager will probably not have the money to bring in the players he wants.

Whatsisname

No

Absolutely baffling how he can't see the issues with his tactics and thinks its just bad luck. I can't get my head around it at all.

beno619

beno619 wrote: »

I dont disagree with any of what you say. Im just pointing out how little he has played and how he has been mismanaged imo.

Him contribution outside of scoring has improved as well.

Two assists is his contribution this season.
Still don't understand how you think he is being mismanaged just because he's is not starting. Fergie must also have mismanaged him? Only reason he didn't cry about it then is because Fergie would nail him if he did.
He's an impact sub and always has been for Man utd.

spiralism

No

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

That is thoroughly uninspiring.

It is but a good hammering will move the wheels towards him getting shítcanned and does us **** all harm at this stage. Patience has really started to wear thin among the fanbase the last two weeks and Fulham could have been a turning point.

How Soon Is Now

No

spiralism wrote: »

It is but a good hammering will move the wheels towards him getting shítcanned and does us **** all harm at this stage. Patience has really started to wear thin among the fanbase the last two weeks and Fulham could have been a turning point.

He ain't gonna get sacked anytime soon. Not only would it make club look stupid but would make Fergie picking him make him look very stupid. There's to many factors as to why he's going no where yet.

Kerrydude1981

No

I know Kagawa hasn't been a huge success during his time at Utd,but its hard to believe he hasn't been seen on the pitch since that Swansea game at home in which he impressed in the second half,not even been involved as a playing substitute since then.

Whatever bit of confidence that he had left must be well and truly gone at this stage

Play well get benched,one rule for him and different rules for others.

Iused2likebusts

No

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Would love to see this;

Carrick
Januzaj Mata Kagawa
Rooney
RVP

And leave Rafeal & Evra in defensive positions so they don't get exposed. Let Januzaj & Kagawa do the attacking down the flank. Let Mata try and pick out a decisive through ball to give us another option.

That lineup wouldnt work. Carrick who is slow being left totally isolated in midfield would mean teams getting at a leaky defence even easier than they currently are. Wenger would be rubbing his hands if he saw that teamsheet.

FutureGuy

It would be absolutely hilarious if we won 3-0 with all goals coming from perfectly weight crosses to the heads of our strikers.

Whatsisname

No

You'd swear they were trying not to score with the amount of misses here

Kerrydude1981

No

Whatsisname wrote: »

You'd swear they were trying not to score with the amount of misses here

I reckon Moyes thinks Kagawa crosses the ball too low and actually tries to pick out someone in a red shirt

Cant be having that.

Its All Wright

Despite us being in horrible form and nothing suggesting we'll beat Arsenal tomorrow night, i think we will and i shall be putting my money where my mouth is as RVP anytime & United to win at 18/5 is very generous

Even with press conferences Moyes is failing in this job. Talking absolute ****e.

Blatter

No

Its All Wright wrote: »

Despite us being in horrible form and nothing suggesting we'll beat Arsenal tomorrow night, i think we will and i shall be putting my money where my mouth is as RVP anytime & United to win at 18/5 is very generous

That price is nowhere near generous, it's daylight robbery. Not least because you can get 5/1 elsewhere but even that is below expected value imo.

Iused2likebusts

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

That lineup wouldnt work. Carrick who is slow being left totally isolated in midfield would mean teams getting at a leaky defence even easier than they currently are. Wenger would be rubbing his hands if he saw that teamsheet.

That's why I said leave the left and right back where they are to compensate, we are not going to have the ball like we did last game and Carrick would sit in front of the back four and play out to Mata on the counter.

Its All Wright

Its All Wright wrote: »

Despite us being in horrible form and nothing suggesting we'll beat Arsenal tomorrow night, i think we will and i shall be putting my money where my mouth is as RVP anytime & United to win at 18/5 is very generous

Paddy Power giving this price?

Giruilla

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

I reckon Moyes thinks Kagawa crosses the ball too low and actually tries to pick out someone in a red shirt

Cant be having that.

Moyes subbed Kagawa off in second leg v sunderland and the teams shape immediately fell apart.
All I can guess is that when Kagawa has played, he isn't following Moyes' instructions in sprinting to wide positions and knocking in first time balls. He's just taken a distrust to him in the same way mourinho did with Mata.

Kerrydude1981

No

Giruilla wrote: »

Moyes subbed Kagawa off in second leg v sunderland and the teams shape immediately fell apart.
All I can guess is that when Kagawa has played, he isn't following Moyes' instructions in sprinting to wide positions and knocking in first time balls. He's just taken a distrust to him in the same way mourinho did with Mata.

Oh ya forgot about him playing in that that game,that was another head scratching moment,had a lot of them this season.

weldoninhio

zerks wrote: »

Nah,I just posted a link without reading Clev's interview:rolleyes:

He'd be better served knuckling down and proving himself on the pitch than trying to justify himself in the papers.I laughed at Liverpool for signing Henderson who seemed to just run around like a cocker spaniel chasing a ball,at least he's put his head down and actually improved his game.Clev is similar but doesn't seem to learn and makes the same mistakes every game,it looks like it's never going to click with him what he needs to do to kick on.Blaming tactics is a copout.

Cleverley spent most of the interview telling Holt what he doesn't do, rather than what he actually does.

keane2097

No

Blatter wrote: »

That price is nowhere near generous, it's daylight robbery. Not least because you can get 5/1 elsewhere but even that is below expected value imo.

I'm not sure what people think a price is when it comes to sports betting most of the time.

MisterAnarchy

No

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

Whatever bit of confidence that he had left must be well and truly gone at this stage

Play well get benched,one rule for him and different rules for others.

Moyes seems to have his favourites and will play them irrespective of the fact that they are in atrocious form.
How else can you explain the constant inclusions of Valencia and Young as wide men ?
Both of them wouldn't look out of place playing for Norwich or Stoke.

Nani seems to have been frozen out and Zaha was never given a chance at all for some bizarre reason.
Its come to the stage that I'd prefer to see Bebe get a game over Young and Valencia ,they are that bad.

Why has Ferdinand been frozen out ,why is Evra constantly played at left back when he couldnt give a damn about defending ,why has Vidic been left leave the club so easily .

Why was Fellaini bought and then played as a holding midfielder ,why was Andersen frozen out and not given playing time despite the fact Cleverley was playing too many matches and in woeful form ?

Moyes has alot to answer for with his selection policy.

Agueroooo

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Paddy Power giving this price?

No they are offering a very generous 4/1 :rolleyes:

and I looked at the market for the Chelsea game tonight, and again not very generous with Hazard anytime & Chelsea win @ 2/1 :rolleyes: