Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod Warning: Post #7871

Whatsisname

No

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Moyes seems to have his favourites and will play them irrespective of the fact that they are in atrocious form.
How else can you explain the constant inclusions of Valencia and Young as wide men ?
Both of them wouldn't look out of place playing for Norwich or Stoke.

Nani seems to have been frozen out and Zaha was never given a chance at all for some bizarre reason.
Its come to the stage that I'd prefer to see Bebe get a game over Young and Valencia ,they are that bad.

Why has Ferdinand been frozen out ,why is Evra constantly played at left back when he couldnt give a damn about defending ,why has Vidic been left leave the club so easily .

Why was Fellaini bought and then played as a holding midfielder ,why was Andersen frozen out and not given playing time despite the fact Cleverley was playing too many matches and in woeful form ?

Moyes has alot to answer for with his selection policy.

I agree with the beginning of this but...

Ferdinand is 35 and all but finished, his legs are gone, completely. We have Smalling, Jones and Evans who all need the gametime at cb, Smalling and Jones have been shafted everywhere else.

Vidic has been exceptional for 8 years here, who knows whether how hard Moyes pushed to keep him or how hard Vidic pushed to leave? He's given his all for the club, he owes United nothing, should be allowed leave for his final contract.

Because Fellaini is a holding midfielder? he's said this himself and plays there for Belgium. He only played off the striker for Everton because of their lack of threat upfront. We already play a considerable amount of hoof ball, last thing we need is every attack being booted up to Fellaini.

Hank Scorpio

No

How many players have hinted at unrest with Moyes publicly in the past few months? Rio was the first I think and tweeted about managerial sackings again recently, Hernandez posting similar stuff on twitter, Zaha posted a pic of him and Ole saying its nice to find a manager who believes in him then deleted it. That young goalkeeper posted something else after United drew. Writing must surely be on the wall if he's lost the players

KH25

No

I really want Moyes to succeed. He seems like a genuinely nice guy and I don't take great pleasure in wanting anyone to lose their job. But he has to make big changes now. Its obvious to everyone else that his tactics are cack and not aimed at getting the best out of players like Mata, Jan and Kags.

v3ttel

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Nani seems to have been frozen out

Nani is injured.

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Why has Ferdinand been frozen out.

Probably because he has been nothing short of a complete liability when called upon. Smalling, Evans, Jones, Vidic are decent alternative options, and are far, far ahead of what Rio can offer at this stage.

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

why is Evra constantly played at left back when he couldnt give a damn about defending

The only alternative is Buttner, who is also not good enough. I wouldn't blame him for going for experience over inexperience. Both options are poor, hence the moves for Baines and Coentrao.

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Why was Fellaini bought and then played as a holding midfielder

Instead of what? Playing him up front instead of Van Persie or Rooney? That would be completely ridiculous.

Probably because of this: http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11671/8721746/premier-league-marouane-fellaini-hints-at-following-david-moyes-to-manchester-united

I'm not a number 10. David Moyes predicts my future as a defensive midfielder, but due to a lack of offensive power, he plays me up front.

In the future I want to play as a six or an eight. From there, I can create danger and score goals

Both manager and player see him as a central midfielder.

super_furry

No

Whatsisname wrote: »

Absolutely baffling how he can't see the issues with his tactics and thinks its just bad luck. I can't get my head around it at all.

I know the comparison keeps getting made, but this whole episode is eerily similar to Hodgson's time as Liverpool manager. He seemed to genuinely be unable to grasp why things were going wrong, kept insisting that things would improve once his luck turned and was never able to recognise that the way he played was the problem.

Once a manager starts blaming luck on a consistent basis, you're in trouble.

MisterAnarchy

No

v3ttel wrote: »

Nani is injured.

Fair enough but he wasnt given much playing time when he was fit

Probably because he has been nothing short of a complete liability when called upon. Smalling, Evans, Jones, Vidic are decent alternative options, and are far, far ahead of what Rio can offer at this stage.

How many games was that ?
Perhaps he wasnt fully fit at the time.
I'm not a big fan of Ferdinand but to not play him at all and completely freeze him out is odd.
Moyes seems to be doing a good job of alienating the elder members of the squad much like AVB did at Chelsea and we know how that ended.

The only alternative is Buttner, who is also not good enough. I wouldn't blame him for going for experience over inexperience. Both options are poor, hence the moves for Baines and Coentrao.

Well he could give Buttner a few games ,it might be the boot up the hole Evra needs ,he has been a liability for the best part of 2-3 years.

Both manager and player see him as a central midfielder.

Yes a central midfielder ,that's the position he was bought for ,but he was playing very deeply in any of the matches I saw,almost directly in front of the back 4 ,the same position Carrick plays .
It seems a very deep position especially since there are no real attack minded central midfielders in the squad,they are primarily defensive midfielders.

SlickRic

Whatsisname wrote: »

Absolutely baffling how he can't see the issues with his tactics and thinks its just bad luck. I can't get my head around it at all.

because he's not used to having to play consistently winning football.

bullvine

No

When Liverpool appointed Hodgson, they had finished I think seventh in the league that season. This was during a period when they lost players who had been fantastic for Benitez like Alonso, Mascherano and Benayoun. He also had to deal with Torres completely forgetting how to play football. The club was also in the middle of a major ownership struggle as well.

At least Hodgson has some good excuses for the team being an absolute mess on the pitch. Has Moyes had to deal with anything of this level since he took over, I don't think so...

DM_7

zerks wrote: »

I have to disagree,his contribution to the team is negligible,his job was to take the ball from Carrick & move the play on.He has the positional sense of a blind man so all too often we see the ball bypassing him & being hit long to the wings.In the Stoke game you could see him standing & calling for the ball while surrounded by Stoke players instead of finding space,Carrick simply ignored him.
For a young player who sees a future at this club it's a bad way to go about cementing that place.

I think you see what you want and are ignoring what has happened. Cleverley changed his game this season compared to last, if you watched him so closely you would see that. His manager changed his role and he is actually doing what he is asked to do. He has now gone on record to say what we could see.

He is a good player, a player who was always at his most effective when playing ahead of Carrick and a link between Carrick and Rooney. His role now is to play beside Carrick and play to keep the ball in the teams possession over getting the ball to attackers. It's ****e and makes him look ****e, Carrick went from a key player to looking ****e for same reason.

eyescreamcone

Manchester United at their best always had pace

Giggs in his pomp.
Kanchelskis
Ronaldo and a host of others

United versus Fulham were so so slow.
Slow build up by slow players allowed opposing defenders get in position before United could pass through them. So United had no option but to get it wide and fling it in.
It looked like it was the plan but it really was the only plan left to them.

United's pace was badly shown up when the once pacey Kieran Richardson (nearly 30) ran past the whole Utd team and should have scored.
This break from a corner is what United used to do to teams.

Lack of pace is hurting United when they attack and defend.
They don't close down teams half fast enough either.

Whoever United buy MUST bring pace or no significant changes will be made.

DARK-KNIGHT

No

MOYES OUT....

Dicky Pride

No

It's in the DNA of a Man Utd fan to always expect their team to win. Even if we're losing 2-0 at HT, the belief is always that they'll come out in the second half and sweat blood for that result. If we lose a match, the unmitigated belief is that we will win the next match. The worst time to play man utd is when their pride has been dented.

For most Man Utd fans, that make up has been dissolved now. We now fear for every game...fear that the next club we play are about to win at Old Trafford for the first time in 46 years or whatever. As commentators and pundits have been saying all season - the fear factor is gone.

When Moyes was chosen by Ferguson to be the club's new manager I was worried that the whole process was being rushed. I was worried that a manager who hadn't proved himself on the big stage now had to prove himself in the biggest job in football. I believed that Ferguson had never even considered anyone else, and just picked Moyes cause they were friends and even though Ferguson believed him to be a good manager, I don't believe he thought long enough about whether or not he was good enough to be Man Utd manager. But that wouldn't matter, at least not in the first few seasons, cause fergie would be right there in the stands to support him and guide him through.

Moyes' new role started, almost hand in hand with Ferguson, which meant he couldn't insult the ex-manager by tearing his team apart...which every one knows should have happened.

Instead he came in and got rid of the back room staff, replacing them with relatively inexperienced personnel, at least on the big stage anyway. That was alarm bell number 2. The 3rd one was particularly worrying. Instead of immediately identifying the problems with the team, he announced to the world that Fergie had handed him down a world class side. He then went off on Holidays.

When people say to me "Let's wait for the summer, until he can build his own team"...I think WTF...he could have done that last summer?!

Also, when people say "I trust that he can turn it around"...what exactly are they basing this trust on? What previous experience does he have that makes you believe that he can take this club from mid table to challenging for trophies again?

As we look at the madness that's unfolding before our eyes, we're left speculating about what the board think. Why are we not being told anything? We're only supporters and yet we all seem to see the obvious problems with the team, but the manager seemingly doesn't?

"They can't sack him now" - Why? If Moyes stays til the end of the season then I think we're stuck with him for the next few seasons, and that's a pain that not many of us will be able to bear. And when it's over, and we're languishing in 8th position with ex players like Vidic and Evra coming out to publicly criticise the club, who gets to say I told you so?

I get accused of being a bad supporter...for not supporting my team's manager...but all I have to go on right now is his failure. I can't think back to the year that he won the champions league..or the league..or even one of the cups. I can't think back to the way he turned a season around with tactical genius...All I can think about right now is that he bought Mata, when Andy Carroll would have been a better fit for the system that he's persevering with.

His lack of experience, imagination, tactical knowhow, player motivation and PR ability is the reason I want him to move away from our club now. His level at this stage of his career is a mid table team who might sneak a champions league place down the line.

Discodog

If Moyes continues to believe that changing your mind is a weakness then we are doomed.

Every decent manager in business or sport knows that you can't stick to rigid beliefs. You have to be flexible & adapt.

He can't be sacked but he could leave for personal reasons. My fear is that he is one of those who will never admit that he's wrong.

Is there going to be a time when the fans have to be disloyal to Moyes in order to save the club?

Just An Opinion

Can anyone recommend a good pub in Tralee to watch the match tomorrow?

Hidalgo

Dicky Pride wrote: »

It's in the DNA of a Man Utd fan to always expect their team to win. Even if we're losing 2-0 at HT, the belief is always that they'll come out in the second half and sweat blood for that result. If we lose a match, the unmitigated belief is that we will win the next match. The worst time to play man utd is when their pride has been dented.


"They can't sack him now" - Why? If Moyes stays til the end of the season then I think we're stuck with him for the next few seasons, and that's a pain that not many of us will be able to bear. And when it's over, and we're languishing in 8th position with ex players like Vidic and Evra coming out to publicly criticise the club, who gets to say I told you so?
.

The fear factor of opposition teams was partly the quality of players that were at Utd but mostly due to Ferguson. When you start doing something with a degree of regularity it becomes almost expected, or at least its not a surprise when you do it. This was the case with Uts and the numerous comebacks.

Now the opposite is happening with a degree of regularity, instead of Utd believing they're never beaten, its opposition teams who hold belief that they can pull a result from an unlikely situation.


If Utd sack him now, who takes over till the summer when they go for whomever the preferred target may be.
The luxury of appointing the current no.2 isn't even an option for Man Utd. That at least is something most clubs can turn to if they sack a manager mid-season

Kerrydude1981

No

Just An Opinion wrote: »

Can anyone recommend a good pub in Tralee to watch the match tomorrow?

The Greyhound Bar on Pembroke Street,should be a good mix of Utd and Arsenal fans in there watching it.

Lord TSC

No

Something else...

Moyes seems to be pushing this line of "We can't give up cause it's not working, we keep trying till it clicks and starts working".

That's how he defends his tactics. But it's more than that as well really. It's also a defense of himself as a manager. "Don't give up on me as a manager, you've got to just keep going till I get it right".

And I'd be more than happy to oblige if he gave me a reason to trust he can turn things round. But his crossing at Fulham exemplified his managerial reign and excuses; "Keep trying, keep trying, hope luck turns around".

Pro. F

No

If Moyes had bought a good left back and cover for both full backs he would have picked up a lot more points this season. If Fellaini had been fit and played up top Moyes would have picked up even more points. He might have even guided the team to finishing in the Champions League places.

I could well believe that Moyes might get better results and get the team up the table if given time and money. It's also possible that he could win a cup competition, even the big one. I don't think he could ever win the league though.

brinty

Pro. F wrote: »

If Moyes had bought a good left back and cover for both full backs he would have picked up a lot more points this season. If Fellaini had been fit and played up top Moyes would have picked up even more points. He might have even guided the team to finishing in the Champions League places.

I could well believe that Moyes might get better results and get the team up the table if given time and money. It's also possible that he could win a cup competition, even the big one. I don't think he could ever win the league though.

The big word there Pro. F is IF!!!!!
If your aunt had nuts she'd be...... and all that!!!!
If doesn't cut it at this level,
1 he hasn't bought a LB or cover at RB..thats his problem..he's had 2 transfer windows
2 Fellaini wasn't bought to play up top...and who should be sacrificed for him, RVP, Rooney, Mata, Adnan, kagawa
3 He has been given time and plenty of money, he's made 2 signings and has spent more on them than Fergie spent in any one season?? again that's a problem of his creation

Here's a few more if's
1 if he'd an effective game plan playing to the teams strengths
2 if he'd kept some of the coaching staff who knew the palyers
3 if he'd not fallen out with several players
4 if he'd pulled the trigger and signed a few more players
5 if he'd played a consistent team
6 if he'd played players in their correct positions
7 if he'd sold a few more players in the two transfer windows
8 if he'd stop talking pure rubbish and focusing on whats going wrong and how he can fix it - rather than blaming luck, injuries, referee's decisions not going our way etc
9 if he'd realise the definition of stupidity is doing the same thing thats not working repeatedly

If he'd done all those things we might be further up the table.....

Pro. F

No

brinty wrote: »

The big word there Pro. F is IF!!!!!
If your aunt had nuts she'd be...... and all that!!!!
If doesn't cut it at this level,
1 he hasn't bought a LB or cover at RB..thats his problem..he's had 2 transfer windows
2 Fellaini wasn't bought to play up top...and who should be sacrificed for him, RVP, Rooney, Mata, Adnan, kagawa
3 He has been given time and plenty of money, he's made 2 signings and has spent more on them than Fergie spent in any one season?? again that's a problem of his creation

Here's a few more if's
1 if he'd an effective game plan playing to the teams strengths
2 if he'd kept some of the coaching staff who knew the palyers
3 if he'd not fallen out with several players
4 if he'd pulled the trigger and signed a few more players
5 if he'd played a consistent team
6 if he'd played players in their correct positions
7 if he'd sold a few more players in the two transfer windows
8 if he'd stop talking pure rubbish and focusing on whats going wrong and how he can fix it - rather than blaming luck, injuries, referee's decisions not going our way etc
9 if he'd realise the definition of stupidity is doing the same thing thats not working repeatedly

If he'd done all those things we might be further up the table.....

I don't think you get my point. I'm not defending Moyes, I'm saying the best he could achieve, if he was given the best support he could hope for, is to get into the CL places and maybe win a cup.

You could replace all the ifs in my post and yours with "if Moyes was a better manager", so we should be replacing Moyes with a better manager.

brinty

Pro. F wrote: »

I don't think you get my point. I'm not defending Moyes, I'm saying the best he could achieve, if he was given the best support he could hope for, is to get into the CL places and maybe win a cup.

You could replace all the ifs in my post and yours with "if Moyes was a better manager", so we should be replacing Moyes with a better manager.

Fair point Pro F.
I wasn't attacking your post at all TBF, sorry if it seemed that way. I'm not defending him either I wasn't convinced by his appointment in the first place and none of his subsequent actions since that date have proven me incorrect in my opinion. I've firmly said I'd give him til 31st August 2014 before i'm placing my foot in any camp on him. By then he'll have had 3 full transfer windows and 2 pre season's to sort out whatever issues he thought needed sorting. By that stage IF he's not addressed any of the issues confronting him then he simply has to go.

I do agree with you in that I don't think this is his level at all. Would any other top club in Europe beat a path to his door to get him managing their team. i don't think there would be one club willing too and so why should we settle for. We should be only looking to get in the cream of the crop..

Vic Vinegar

We've only taken all three points once against the current top nine teams.....

Awful stuff.

bullvine

No

I am so sick of hearing the lack of quality in the team, its a myth been spun by Moyes supporters. How was it that fergie could get good results at home resting lots of key players all the time.

Maximus Alexander

bullvine wrote: »

I am so sick of hearing the lack of quality in the team, its a myth been spun by Moyes supporters. How was it that fergie could get good results at home resting lots of key players all the time.

Because he was a genius. If you compare anyone to him they will come out second best.

plasteritup

long time reader first time poster in here.
some of ye make very good points a lot of the time,the arguing and childishness kept me out this long.
I think moyes was 100 percent the right choice to take over for lots of reasons,unfortunatley all the reasons why he should not have been given the job are coming to the fore right now,tactically naïve,unproven at the top level,unable to attract top players,players there now maybe not taking him seriously enough.

I do think however this will change with time,he will not be sacked if we don't get top four,i think shaw from Southampton needs to be bought badly,i like Rafael a lot,but to get coleman aswell along with 1 more proven centre half
possibly a hummels would be a serious springboard for him,them along with smalling jones and evans would be excellent to go forward with,a striker with rooney,i never took van persie as long term because of his injury issues although he is top drawer no doubt.valencia and young as cover im fine with,obviously a cm and I think then there is no excuse.

I don't think we will win the league for the next two seasons and for the record I think we have more chance of catching arsenal than we do Liverpool for the top four.

Pighead

Anybody hear any rumblings about Van Persie going back to Arsenal this summer? Just watched this video and Wenger is acting a bit weird when asked about him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=treodTEcJXY

Fanny Brioscaí

Pighead wrote: »

Anybody hear any rumblings about Van Persie going back to Arsenal this summer? Just watched this video and Wenger is acting a bit weird when asked about him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=treodTEcJXY

I heard the rumblings. Wenger attempt at mind games? It sounds like he's open to the idea.

Schwiiing

Pighead wrote: »

Anybody hear any rumblings about Van Persie going back to Arsenal this summer? Just watched this video and Wenger is acting a bit weird when asked about him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=treodTEcJXY

Any decent bid and Utd should let him go in the summer. He has only 2-3 decent years left. Utd need younger players to build for the future. Break the bank for maybe Diego Costa early in the summer. He's 25 and a decent show in the world cup and his value will skyrocket.

grames_bond

Only thing I heard was from GMF - and they had a ludicrous offer of £15m

Just to make us look worse!

GSPfan

No

Why in the name of God would United sell Robin Van Persie?

Some rumours should never be repeated. End this madness right now and lets never speak of it again.

dahat

No

RVP needs to go for the sake of the team and it's progression away from 4-4-2 if Moyes ahs the balls to...i personally doubt he does.

Its All Wright

Van Persie will not be going back to Arsenal, other clubs might sell direct to a rival but United do not, no chance!

I cant believe how many fans would be willing to let him go either, are you serious?

Agueroooo

dahat wrote: »

RVP needs to go for the sake of the team and it's progression away from 4-4-2 if Moyes ahs the balls to...i personally doubt he does.

Schwiiing

Its All Wright wrote: »

Van Persie will not be going back to Arsenal, other clubs might sell direct to a rival but United do not, no chance!

I cant believe how many fans would be willing to let him go either, are you serious?

No player is irreplaceable. He's 32 next season.

LostBoy101

No

Schwiiing wrote: »

No player is irreplaceable. He's 32 next season.

Irreplacable eh? Roy Keane and Paul Scholes say hi.

Schwiiing

LostBoy101 wrote: »

Irreplacable eh? Roy Keane and Paul Scholes say hi.

They were replacable aswell but Ferguson didn't bother to do it properly.

J. Marston

No

I think there's a decent chance of Van Persie leaving in the summer but if we can hold off Chelsea when they were looking for Rooney, I think we can tell Arsenal "No deal" fairly easily.

Swap deal (!) for Cavani.

Its All Wright

Schwiiing wrote: »

No player is irreplaceable. He's 32 next season.

He can have another 4 seasons at the top level, hes one of the best finishers in the game. He has come back from 2 months out injured & has scored 3 goals in 3 games. Single handly won us the league last year as well, Some fans need there heads screwed back on, to even suggest selling Van Persie is crazy

BloodBath

No

It's not totally crazy in fairness but would mean we'd have to buy a similar quality younger replacement of which there aren't too many available.

I have no objections with replacing injury prone older players like Carrick, RVP etc but only if they are replaced with someone of at least equal quality and under the age of 25-26.

GSPfan

No

So when are we Selling Mata?

Schwiiing

Its All Wright wrote: »

He can have another 4 seasons at the top level, hes one of the best finishers in the game. He has come back from 2 months out injured & has scored 3 goals in 3 games. Single handly won us the league last year as well, Some fans need there heads screwed back on, to even suggest selling Van Persie is crazy

Do you think he will be knocking in 30 goals a season at 36? If I was Moyes and a foreign club offered me the majority of the 24m spent on him I'd take it and put it towards a new younger striker.

Will I Amnt

No

Can't see RvP going myself. What length of contract is he on?
It would be a different story if he was a few years younger but he was bought knowing there would be little to no resale value.

Rayne Wooney

We can't go on playing Rooney at number 10 to fit them both in tbh.

The only way he should be leaving is as bait to get another player though, selling him for cash is madness, United should have enough of that, it's top top players that we need.

Anyway we're a long way off summer before talking about that.

dahat

No

It is Rooney or RVP to go and Rooney looks like signing a new deal so in order to maximise the players we have and the rumoured new players a new system must come in...

Rooney and RVP do not fit, one must go....

Agueroooo

Have I just entered a parallel universe or sometime.

Wtf is going on ??

Schwiiing

dahat wrote: »

It is Rooney or RVP to go and Rooney looks like signing a new deal so in order to maximise the players we have and the rumoured new players a new system must come in...

Rooney and RVP do not fit, one must go....

If an offer actually does come, sell RVP and put Rooney back up front maybe?

Saucy McKetchup

No

Jaysus ya don't sell one of your best players unless you have to or need too, sure lets sell Januzaj and De Gea too for the craic

BloodBath

No

Why can't we continue playing rooney as a number 10? Because of Mata? It would be easy to fit both of them into a 4-2-3-1 formation.

I don't buy this bollocks that Rooney is not a good number 10. Stats prove otherwise. He also puts in a far bigger workload than the likes of Mata does in helping the midfield and tracking back to defend.

Granted Mata would be more creative and get more assists in that position but a 4-2-3-1 could easily accommodate both of them.

Sell RVP and when Rooney get's injured what do we do? I'd like to see Wayne back as a CF. He would have smashed Sir Bobbys records already if he had played there his whole career.

Its All Wright

Schwiiing wrote: »

Do you think he will be knocking in 30 goals a season at 36? If I was Moyes and a foreign club offered me the majority of the 24m spent on him I'd take it and put it towards a new younger striker.

20-24m for a 32 year old striker? Not going to happen. Van Persie never based his game on pace, its his movement, control and finishing that make him so good so i wouldnt worry about him losing a yard of pace as he ages. He will get you 15 league goals a season up until he retires, he is that good

We are losing Vidic and most likely losing Rio and Evra too, Giggs will retire. We need expierence and leadership. Van Persie is the Dutch captain, we cannot afford to lose all that expierence in one go. Van Persie was god to us last season and now people want to throw him in the scrap yard. Some United fans are embarrassing

Blatter

No

BloodBath wrote: »

It's not totally crazy in fairness but would mean we'd have to buy a similar quality younger replacement of which there aren't too many available.

I have no objections with replacing injury prone older players like Carrick, RVP etc but only if they are replaced with someone of at least equal quality and under the age of 25-26.

It is pretty crazy tbf unless he had some sort of release clause if the club failed to qualify for the CL, which I severely doubt.

United have a strict policy of not selling their best players to direct rivals. That was very clear from the Summer, it'd take a dramatic U-turn in policy for it to happen and there are zero signals that that might happen.

According to all the reliable information we have, Rooney wanted to go to Chelsea in the Summer and he was told in no uncertain terms that it wasn't happening, no matter how hard he pushed for it. He sneakily tried to push for it through the medium of the media to no avail.

RvP will know all of this even if he did really want to go back to Arsenal. If he handed in a transfer request and pushed for a move he'd either be sold to a foreign club or be left at United with strained relations, which obviously wouldn't suit either party.