Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod Warning: Post #7871

Backstreet Moyes

GSPfan wrote: »

I actually don't like that. Think its way too narrow up top. And if Rooney and Mata go wider I think there's too much room in the middle.

Would much rather ...

Fellaini Carrick
Januzaj Rooney Mata
RVP

There's no way in hell Januzaj deserves to be dropped for Kagawa. Not if you are picking your strongest 11.

Janjuaz would not be dropped for Kagawa i would like to see Kagawa tried in a midfield 3. With a bit of freedom he would definitely help bring the ball forward on the ground and link up with Mata and Rooney higher up the field.

DazMarz

No

Not slagging, but I was watching this film tonight (one of the best sports movies ever made, IMO) and you guys need Moyes to make something like this kind of speech... serious. Something to get the blood boiling, instil belief and esprit-de-corps amongst the players. Because that is sorely lacking at the moment, from what I can see.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WO4tIrjBDkk

Jesus Wept

GSPfan wrote: »

Was just looking at the league table. Southampton are right behind us and seem to have got over a little blip. If they go on a run (which is likely), and we continue to lose games (which is likely) we could be looking at a scrap for 7th place. Now surely to god no manager on Earth could retain their job if we finish 7th or 8th. That's an unreal thought.

It's a poor return but Alec had United preforming way above par.
On paper, if you take away Mata, Rooney and RVP, the team starts to look quite ordinary.

Pro. F

No

Our Year wrote: »

It's a poor return but Alec had United preforming way above par.
On paper, if you take away Mata, Rooney and RVP, the team starts to look quite ordinary.

Why would you take away those three players?

Jesus Wept

Pro. F wrote: »

Why would you take away those three players?

I won't.

Liam O

GSPfan wrote: »

I actually don't like that. Think its way too narrow up top. And if Rooney and Mata go wider I think there's too much room in the middle.

Would much rather ...

Fellaini Carrick
Januzaj Rooney Mata
RVP

There's no way in hell Januzaj deserves to be dropped for Kagawa. Not if you are picking your strongest 11.

Not that he would be being dropped in the traditional sense but he does. Kagawa is a far superior player right now and him not playing is a contributing factor to how crap United are right now. I know it looks silly but I guarantee that if he started against Fulham and Stoke there would have been more goals for United in those games.

Backstreet Moyes

Is their any truth to the rumours that Kagawa was playing cm in training this week. Somebody on here said it the other day but i can't think who.

Backstreet Moyes

Pro. F wrote: »

It's funny all the jizz that has been blown in this thread over the purchases of van Persie and Mata and now nobody is able to come up with a sensible formation that fits all the players in to one team. If only this issue could have been seen in advance.

What's funny about United fans jizzing over signing two world class players?

Liam O

GSPfan wrote: »

Yeah in fairness he has. Definitely deserves praise for his effort and goals.

In the 9 games he's started this season he has 1 goal and 2 assists. Do people even watch the games?

Rayne Wooney

Fantasy line up

Evra the main liability


*no hoofing aloud

Which leads to


Triangles, triangles everywhere

BloodBath

No

I like it but that leaves us even more exposed. Look at how slow the back 4 are.

If they regain possession and send it out to a fast wide man who out of the back 4 is going to catch him?

Pro. F

No

Nuts102 wrote: »

What's funny about United fans jizzing over signing two world class players?

The short sighted approach of signing world class players that we didn't need, which got a lot of support on this thread, and ignoring the positions that we did need has led us directly to this point. Now fans are trying to come up with fanciful formations to fit all the players in. That's what's funny.

ColeTrain

DazMarz wrote: »

Not slagging, but I was watching this film tonight (one of the best sports movies ever made, IMO) and you guys need Moyes to make something like this kind of speech... serious. Something to get the blood boiling, instil belief and esprit-de-corps amongst the players. Because that is sorely lacking at the moment, from what I can see.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WO4tIrjBDkk

If only it was that easy, moyes certainly isn't al pacino either

BloodBath

No

What about this then until the end of the season. We might as well develop the younger players who are staying. It's a pity we didn't replace Evra sooner.

Rooney, Mata and Kags are pretty much interchangeable. Not gonna suit Moyes crossing mentality though.

tigger123

Not sure if anyone has posted this, looks like Moyes is beginning to loose patience with the press ...

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/english-soccer/david-moyes-losing-patience-with-the-relentless-media-scrutiny-1.1688087

Saucy McKetchup

No

tigger123 wrote: »

Not sure if anyone has posted this, looks like Moyes is beginning to loose patience with the press ...

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/english-soccer/david-moyes-losing-patience-with-the-relentless-media-scrutiny-1.1688087

Hopefully that means that the pressure is starting to come from within the club

Lord TSC

No

I don't think the pressure and the talk of sacking is only on here; Moyes reaction for the second goal we scored at Fulham was a reaction of a man who was desperate to score and felt massive relief when we started winning. That huge pressure isn't just coming from boards.ie soccer board.

Anyway, I want to win tonight. Desperately. I want to win every game possible.

But I just can't see it. Moyes has only won a single game against, what, the top 8 or 9 this season? And being honest, we're on a bad run of matches, even for our horrible season. We've picked up 4 points from a possible 9 that most people were saying we had to get all of to build momentum before Arsenal.

The way Moyes is talking, the soundbites coming out, just screams a lack of confidence and I can't see us changing our fortunes against an Arsenal who, although suffered a blip last weekend, have a chance to go back to the top tonight.

And being honest, I just detest how Moyes has managed to suck all the excitement and joy I used to get when United play football. I just wish he was gone as quickly as possible before he can do any more damage.

Deiseboy01

BloodBath wrote: »

What about something like this?

Teams would destroy us down the left hand side. Not the answer IMO.

Deiseboy01

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

No Young fan, but I dont think he has been too bad since the Norwich game when he has played for us.

Think he has been unlucky not to have few more assists too cause some of his crosses have been good.

Play him on the right side if the pitch and he ll be much better. This inverted winger sh*t has to go. Horrible for a side that's relying on crossing to create chances.

Soldie

There's nowhere near the amount of midfield dynamism and mobility required with a duo of Fellaini and Carrick.

Chazz Michael Michaels

Has Mata or Kagawa ever been played deeper in midfield before in their career? CM not DM.

Hidalgo

GSPfan wrote: »

My biggest hate about David Moyes was always his horrible attitude to standard questions from the media. He would snarl back stupid replies to honest run of the mill questions. It looks like he is starting to do the same again.

Those answers are unbelievable. I refuse to watch the Arsenal game tomorrow because my mental health can't handle it at the moment. I haven't felt this frustrated about football in years.

No different than Ferguson, except of course Fergie could do what he liked in press conferences. He earned that through success.

Moyes has never been in this type of spotlight before, anytime Everton floundered would feature a bit of a report on their struggles, Moyes would say we'll turn it around and that would be that. His every sentence is now being scrutinized, that's what happens when ypur manager of one of the biggest clubs in the world

Kerrydude1981

No

With Southampton winning last night our 7th place is under threat,the way things are looking we will have a battle to get 6th.

TheDoc

Al Capwned wrote: »

Is the amount of people on here that would like to see Moyes removed representative of the general public?

The majority of my United supporting mates would be against his sacking and the number of people in here that want him gone seems very high compared to that.
Is it that the anti-Moyes opinions are the more vocal because of the anger/emotion involved, whereas the posters that want to see him continue are maybe not as vociferous about it?

I think it's what you see in a lot of different walks of life. If you go to the UPC forum you'd swear they are the worst shower of bandits in the country, infact they are by far the best ISP operating.

If you read about their Horizen services here, you would assume it was the biggest ****up a company has ever introduced, however its a small minority that have issues with their horizon services.

It's easier in all aspects of life to rant and rave about negatives then positives, and typically you see that with football as well.

I've a relatively large group of fans, predominantly Liverpool fans. But there are five of us United fans, only one is somewhat doubting Moyes, the rest of us are happy to have him see out three seasons minimum.

1 get to grips with the club and task, evaluate the squad
2 Rebuild with clearing the old bring in the new, start getting over his plan
3 Mount serious challenges again

It's too easily disregarded how monumental a task this is, and the EXTRA factors coming to hurt Moyes this year bar the obvious. It's easy to find a reason to sack him, requires a bit of thought and somewhat calmness to realise why its not the best or right idea.

Also liked Moyes press conference yesterday. I watched it and you could see genuine anger in his face. It wasn't the wry smiles or chuckles hes done before, it wasn't bleary eyed looks that maybe you thought he was out of this depth.

You could see there was genuine anger there, most probably at the way the team has been sliced apart in the media the last few days. Hopefully that anger get's lashed out on the players, and there is a heart filled but gusting performance tonight.

His pre-match motivational tools have been handed to him on a silver platter.

But you could see real anger and fury in Moyes face yesterday. I like that.

BloodBath

No

Watch Liverpool dismantle Fulham tonight away from home without 81 crosses.

mitosis

Al Capwned wrote: »

A question for ye!
Is the amount of people on here that would like to see Moyes removed representative of the general public?

The majority of my United supporting mates would be against his sacking and the number of people in here that want him gone seems very high compared to that.
Is it that the anti-Moyes opinions are the more vocal because of the anger/emotion involved, whereas the posters that want to see him continue are maybe not as vociferous about it?

Because you have two types of fan. Type one who are fans perhaps through association and maybe have memories beyond the Ferguson era, and glory fans who only signed up when times were good and because times were good. This second group still craves instant gratification, so a change has to be made now.

Cantona's Collars

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Fantasy line up

Evra the main liability


*no hoofing aloud

Which leads to


Triangles, triangles everywhere

There was a pic somewhere in the Liverpool thread of how Liverpool were set up against Arsenal,it was pretty much the same as the first one,it worked well for them but the difference is that their players moved and weren't stuck in position.They don't have players that could be called top drawer but they make the formation work and play to their strengths.We seem to have moved away from that philosophy and have turned players into robots who seem either unwilling or unable to impose their skills on the game.

Your Airbag

Pro. F wrote: »

The short sighted approach of signing world class players that we didn't need, which got a lot of support on this thread, and ignoring the positions that we did need has led us directly to this point. Now fans are trying to come up with fanciful formations to fit all the players in. That's what's funny.

Mata won a player of the month under AVB playing out wide. Mata has played out wide for us twice and has three assists in three games. Fitting him in is not a problem. RVP won us the league last season. We do need them.

TheDoc

Chazz Michael Michaels wrote: »

Has Mata or Kagawa ever been played deeper in midfield before in their career? CM not DM.

Kagawa has previously. I don't believe for a second Kags was playing CM in training, but there is some merit to the madness.

Arsenal arn't a combative midfield, regardless of what they might try make you believe. They will try boss possesion and from watching them recently are trying to operate at their own pace, and don't like when their hussled.

Cleverly hasn't being playing lately, alot of people obviously have their issues, but I wouldn't be suprised to see him start tonight. I wouldn't at all. Has the tools to hassle that Arsenal midfield who want to play and dictate at their own tempo and pace.

That is what has been criminally exposed by Arsenal lately, their inability to adapt or morph to a situation, they want to play their own way. Somewhat like the Arsenal of old. So there is some logic in deploying someone like Kagawa in there who can play ball, but won't necessarily be bullied around by a tentative Arsenal midfield.

Liverpool wasn't a once off or a fluke, it was exactly what has been evident in Arsenal in recent weeks. Hititng them hard and fast and you'll get chances. They've alot of luxury players in that midfield, and don't press hard when the opponent has the ball.

Arsenal have been imperious this season putting lower sides to the sword. But when they've played the big clubs, the quality sides, they have suffered. They can't dictate their tempo and pace, as better teams will put it to them. And their midfield imo hasn't got the personal to stomp authority onto a game against another big side.

And as Moyes reminded a journalist yesterday who asked a daft question, with a look like he was going to rip the head of him "We are a big club..."

Maximus Alexander

Al Capwned wrote: »

A question for ye!
Is the amount of people on here that would like to see Moyes removed representative of the general public?

The majority of my United supporting mates would be against his sacking and the number of people in here that want him gone seems very high compared to that.
Is it that the anti-Moyes opinions are the more vocal because of the anger/emotion involved, whereas the posters that want to see him continue are maybe not as vociferous about it?

Well we can try to find out what the entire soccer forum thinks at least.

BloodBath

No

TheDoc wrote: »

I think it's what you see in a lot of different walks of life. If you go to the UPC forum you'd swear they are the worst shower of bandits in the country, infact they are by far the best ISP operating.

If you read about their Horizen services here, you would assume it was the biggest ****up a company has ever introduced, however its a small minority that have issues with their horizon services.

It's easier in all aspects of life to rant and rave about negatives then positives, and typically you see that with football as well.

I've a relatively large group of fans, predominantly Liverpool fans. But there are five of us United fans, only one is somewhat doubting Moyes, the rest of us are happy to have him see out three seasons minimum.

1 get to grips with the club and task, evaluate the squad
2 Rebuild with clearing the old bring in the new, start getting over his plan
3 Mount serious challenges again

It's too easily disregarded how monumental a task this is, and the EXTRA factors coming to hurt Moyes this year bar the obvious. It's easy to find a reason to sack him, requires a bit of thought and somewhat calmness to realise why its not the best or right idea.

Also liked Moyes press conference yesterday. I watched it and you could see genuine anger in his face. It wasn't the wry smiles or chuckles hes done before, it wasn't bleary eyed looks that maybe you thought he was out of this depth.

You could see there was genuine anger there, most probably at the way the team has been sliced apart in the media the last few days. Hopefully that anger get's lashed out on the players, and there is a heart filled but gusting performance tonight.

His pre-match motivational tools have been handed to him on a silver platter.

But you could see real anger and fury in Moyes face yesterday. I like that.

Rooneys been at the kebabs again has he?

TheDoc

BloodBath wrote: »

Rooneys been at the kebabs again has he?

epic typo is epic

beno619

No

mitosis wrote: »

Because you have two types of fan. Type one who are fans perhaps through association and maybe have memories beyond the Ferguson era, and glory fans who only signed up when times were good and because times were good. This second group still craves instant gratification, so a change has to be made now.

That really is rubbish, this squad was easily capable of qualifying for the champions league.
All Moyes had to do was sign a LB and creative CM.

He stuttered and limped through the first half of the season. He had another window to address our problems and decided to sign Mata who while fantastic I feel was only brough is to soothe fans.

The overestimation of the 'rebuilding' this United squad needed is quite frustrating.

I for one would be able to stomach all this if we were at least trying to play football.
Can anyone name a side bar Fulham that have played poorer football this season ?

There are valid reason for people wanting Moyes out beyong being glory hunters.

The Moyes in camp only defence is that the squad that won the league last year are suddenly poorer than Everton , Spurs and Liverpool .

Al Capwned

TheDoc wrote: »

upc. horizon. And Moyes.

Top post. You and your mates views on Moyes would be more or less the same as mine, but I'd like to see a definite improvement by late this year after a successful summer window.

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Well we can try to find out what the entire soccer forum thinks at least.

Be steering well clear of that! Edit - seeing as you linked me in the bloody thing I might as well throw my oar in!

bucketybuck

No

2moreMinutes wrote: »

I'm one of those who couldn't be bothered as even though I would like him to stay on, I neither have the time, energy nor patience to have to deal with the Anti-Moyes brigade.

Its not about time, energy or patience, its about the fact that there isn't any real defence for Moyes beyond "We are United and we stand by our manager".

Thats the thing with Moyes, its been all bad so far, no positives to cling to beyond fairly basic stuff like "gave one young player a few games". This means it's incredibly hard on a message board to make a good case for defending him, you have to resort to blind faith rubbish like "Support him just because Fergie said so, no matter how bad it gets".

No wonder the pro-Moyes side is so quiet, they haven't anything they can say.

Al Capwned

mitosis wrote: »

Because you have two types of fan. Type one who are fans perhaps through association and maybe have memories beyond the Ferguson era, and glory fans who only signed up when times were good and because times were good. This second group still craves instant gratification, so a change has to be made now.

Don't buy this at all tbh mate.
For example there is at least one very vocal Moyes out poster on this thread that I know for a fact is older than me, and I'm 36. No doubt there are fans that only want success but to call him and others a "glory fan" is unfair and to make such sweeping generalisations is never a good idea.

Donnielighto

When an attack is one dimensional you dont have to worry about how else you are going to defend, you stop one method and the team is neutered. A team that isnt that good at defending crosses can still cope if they set up for that alone/mainly. Multidimensional attacking works so much better. Imo if we crossed less relative to keeping the ball on the deck we'd have more success fron the crosses. Also need pace on the counter to stretch teams but this can be central, wide or preferably both. Unpredictablility benefits the attacker and we are very predictable.

We do need players but we also need a fresh approach, I'd say our defensive system is fine but the players are letting us down there while the converse is true for attacks. Obviously midfield is lacking but one at least moderately fast skillful mid would go a long way to solving that.

Moyes needs a better #2 or attack coach atm but I think he'll be busy in an effective manner this summer.

eyescreamcone

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Something else...

Moyes seems to be pushing this line of "We can't give up cause it's not working, we keep trying till it clicks and starts working".

That's how he defends his tactics. But it's more than that as well really. It's also a defense of himself as a manager. "Don't give up on me as a manager, you've got to just keep going till I get it right".

And I'd be more than happy to oblige if he gave me a reason to trust he can turn things round. But his crossing at Fulham exemplified his managerial reign and excuses; "Keep trying, keep trying, hope luck turns around".

A definition of madness
"When you keep doing the same thing over and over...but keep expecting a different outcome"

Lock him up!!!

Deiseboy01

Massive game tonight. We should really see if the players are behind the manager. I expect a reaction to the pasting they have got in the media since Sunday. If not then things start to look untenable for Moyes.

I think this might galvanise the squad.

bullvine

No

Al Capwned wrote: »

Don't buy this at all tbh mate.
For example there is at least one very vocal Moyes out poster on this thread that I know for a fact is older than me, and I'm 36. No doubt there are fans that only want success but to call him and others a "glory fan" is unfair and to make such sweeping generalisations is never a good idea.

I am 38, I was there from a young age, ask me anything from the 80's I can tell you. Growing up back then, many of us were United fans even though they were average. We all had Dad's or older brothers who supported them, plus United had loads of Irish players.

I never ever wanted Moyes, I would have taken pretty much any decent manager over him.

GSPfan

No

I'm anticipating a loss tonight. Anything other than a loss and I'd be shocked. Have a feeling it'll be a 1-0 Arsenal win with both teams being really defensive.

ericzeking

TheDoc wrote: »

I think it's what you see in a lot of different walks of life. If you go to the UPC forum you'd swear they are the worst shower of bandits in the country, infact they are by far the best ISP operating.

If you read about their Horizen services here, you would assume it was the biggest ****up a company has ever introduced, however its a small minority that have issues with their horizon services.

It's easier in all aspects of life to rant and rave about negatives then positives, and typically you see that with football as well.

I've a relatively large group of fans, predominantly Liverpool fans. But there are five of us United fans, only one is somewhat doubting Moyes, the rest of us are happy to have him see out three seasons minimum.

1 get to grips with the club and task, evaluate the squad
2 Rebuild with clearing the old bring in the new, start getting over his plan
3 Mount serious challenges again

It's too easily disregarded how monumental a task this is, and the EXTRA factors coming to hurt Moyes this year bar the obvious. It's easy to find a reason to sack him, requires a bit of thought and somewhat calmness to realise why its not the best or right idea.

Also liked Moyes press conference yesterday. I watched it and you could see genuine anger in his face. It wasn't the wry smiles or chuckles hes done before, it wasn't bleary eyed looks that maybe you thought he was out of this depth.

You could see there was genuine anger there, most probably at the way the team has been sliced apart in the media the last few days. Hopefully that anger get's lashed out on the players, and there is a heart filled but gusting performance tonight.

His pre-match motivational tools have been handed to him on a silver platter.

But you could see real anger and fury in Moyes face yesterday. I like that.

Modesty eh!!!

Good post though.

I'd add...empty vessels make the most noise!!!!!!

BloodBath

BloodBath wrote: »

Watch Liverpool dismantle Fulham tonight away from home without 81 crosses.

More like this is the type of game Liverpool end up only getting a draw after a big result against a top four side.

Al Capwned

bullvine wrote: »

I am 38, I was there from a young age, ask me anything from the 80's I can tell you. Growing up back then, many of us were United fans even though they were average. We all had Dad's or older brothers who supported them, plus United had loads of Irish players.

I never ever wanted Moyes, I would have taken pretty much any decent manager over him.

I disagree with you over Moyes, but I'm loving the sentimentality!

Posted this before, but my uncle lived in Sale for 40 odd years and was in OT every home game for the vast majority of them.
I was given a United football for my 4th birthday and when my Dad told his bro about it, packages started arriving for me every so often from Uncle Tom.
Signed programmes and posters, scarves, badges. You name it, and it's probably in my mam's attic! Never forget the sheer joy of coming home from school and me mam saying there's a box there from Tom.

The best one ever was in late 1991 or so, when the new GK jersey arrived in the post. Think Schmeichel was just after signing, and I had always been leaping around school and field pretending I was Jim Leighton or Les Sealey or someone before that!

We weren't the most well off, and I met my Uncle Tom only twice, but spoke to him thousands of times on the oul A-B payphone in my mams neighbours house.

He died of a stroke in 2002. Think I'll shout a bit louder for him tonight.

bucketybuck

No

ericzeking wrote: »

I'd add...empty vessels make the most noise!!!!!!

Your contributions lately have consisted solely of denigrating those speaking against Moyes, calling them glory hunters and making snide comments like the one above. You haven't at all offered any rational defence of Moyes, instead all you have done is insult the posters.

Perhaps you should check your own vessel first.

Julez

No

Al Capwned wrote: »

I disagree with you over Moyes, but I'm loving the sentimentality!

Posted this before, but my uncle lived in Sale for 40 odd years and was in OT every home game for the vast majority of them.
I was given a United football for my 4th birthday and when my Dad told his bro about it, packages started arriving for me every so often from Uncle Tom.
Signed programmes and posters, scarves, badges. You name it, and it's probably in my mam's attic! Never forget the sheer joy of coming home from school and me mam saying there's a box there from Tom.

The best one ever was in late 1991 or so, when the new GK jersey arrived in the post. Think Schmeichel was just after signing, and I had always been leaping around school and field pretending I was Jim Leighton or Les Sealey or someone before that!

We weren't the most well off, and I met my Uncle Tom only twice, but spoke to him thousands of times on the oul A-B payphone in my mams neighbours house.

He died of a stroke in 2002. Think I'll shout a bit louder for him tonight.

Thats a nice stroy; had it all, the ups and the downs and the heartbreak. Seriously though RIP, sounds like a good lad.

Lord TSC

No

I do so love when people resort to "gloryhunter". May as well type "I've got no logical argument or defense left, so I'll resign myself to name calling".

I will however admit to being a glory hunter....in so far as I want my team to achieve as much success as possible, and as such will complain when I see them hugely underachieving, and will call out the reasons I see for that failure. But then some seem to think wanting your team to do well is a bad thing :pac:

I'd also question anyone who tries to use a sample of their friends as a representation of what the general fanbase is thinking while ignoring a public message board. Thats not to say this particular message board is a perfect representation of all Man United fans; rather, a group of friends will all (usually) be in a similar age bracket from a similar background with a similar set of views. That's, ultimately, what makes them friends.

However this message board comprises of far, far more people, with diverse backgrounds, ages and points of view, and thus, to me, makes it a far better representation of the general viewpoint of the larger group. If you try to use your friends as the sample from which to judge all fans, of course there's going to be confirmation bias.

BloodBath

No

M!Ck^ wrote: »

More like this is the type of game Liverpool end up only getting a draw after a big result against a top four side.

Lets hope so. A surprise loss for the pool and win for us and we're back in the race for 4th. Such optimism. Will I ever learn :rolleyes:

It's a strange ole season though.

TheDoc

ericzeking wrote: »

Modesty eh!!!

Good post though.

I'd add...empty vessels make the most noise!!!!!!

Jesus, I'm having some bloopers this morning!

Meant to be "large group of mates"

Crann na Beatha

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