Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod Warning: Post #7871

Maximus Alexander

TheDoc wrote: »

I think it's what you see in a lot of different walks of life. If you go to the UPC forum you'd swear they are the worst shower of bandits in the country, infact they are by far the best ISP operating.

If you read about their Horizen services here, you would assume it was the biggest ****up a company has ever introduced, however its a small minority that have issues with their horizon services.

It's easier in all aspects of life to rant and rave about negatives then positives, and typically you see that with football as well.

I've a relatively large group of fans, predominantly Liverpool fans. But there are five of us United fans, only one is somewhat doubting Moyes, the rest of us are happy to have him see out three seasons minimum.

1 get to grips with the club and task, evaluate the squad
2 Rebuild with clearing the old bring in the new, start getting over his plan
3 Mount serious challenges again

It's too easily disregarded how monumental a task this is, and the EXTRA factors coming to hurt Moyes this year bar the obvious. It's easy to find a reason to sack him, requires a bit of thought and somewhat calmness to realise why its not the best or right idea.

Also liked Moyes press conference yesterday. I watched it and you could see genuine anger in his face. It wasn't the wry smiles or chuckles hes done before, it wasn't bleary eyed looks that maybe you thought he was out of this depth.

You could see there was genuine anger there, most probably at the way the team has been sliced apart in the media the last few days. Hopefully that anger get's lashed out on the players, and there is a heart filled but gusting performance tonight.

His pre-match motivational tools have been handed to him on a silver platter.

But you could see real anger and fury in Moyes face yesterday. I like that.

Doc I needn't even bother posting anymore. You keep saying exactly what I want to say, only better.

adox

No

mitosis wrote: »

Because you have two types of fan. Type one who are fans perhaps through association and maybe have memories beyond the Ferguson era, and glory fans who only signed up when times were good and because times were good. This second group still craves instant gratification, so a change has to be made now.

Wrong.

Julez

No

BloodBath wrote: »

Lets hope so. A surprise loss for the pool and win for us and we're back in the race for 4th. Such optimism. Will I ever learn :rolleyes:

It's a strange ole season though.

Just on this... Who actually still believes we can make 4th?

For some reason I still do think we can, but I think its just my heart over my head. Just so used to winning now that my mind just wont let me think we won't, no matter how impossible.

Or maybe its this...

ericzeking

bucketybuck wrote: »

Your contributions lately have consisted solely of denigrating those speaking against Moyes, calling them glory hunters and making snide comments like the one above. You haven't at all offered any rational defence of Moyes, instead all you have done is insult the posters.

Perhaps you should check your own vessel first.

And you seem to take particular issue with my posts lately, you on policing duties? I think you even pulled me on one the other day re.Evra which you essentially agreed (edit; where I was critical of Moyes) with but you just had an issue anyway for some reason.

Do me a favour and find a post where I called someone, anyone a "glory hunter"?

I have made a couple of posts, perhaps, poking fun at the mass hysteria that ensues after a poor or even average result from those who find it unthinkable that we can loose games and struggle and that it is so unacceptable. Hardly any though.

Generally I think my posts tend to be about the games and topics of the day.

As for rationally defending the manager, I've done it plenty. I've come to realise though that many had their mind made up last May and it's not going to change no matter what is said on here or what the manager does.

Here's my rationale on Sunday...we played meh...average, could have scored 5, we were predictable but Fulham packed the box and forced us wide, we still could have scored 5. Shocking defending and complacency cost us dearly. We had 75% possession which is a positive, with 75% of the ball the stats, such as the crossing stats, are always going to be skewed. It was a strange game.

I think Rooneys positioning on the pitch was wrong and that is down to the manager, I think he should have been deeper. I think Chicha should have come on earlier with the way the game was going. I think Kagawa could have made a positive impact given the possession we had.
I think people are wrong to criticize where Mata was playing because he was not playing on the wing.

I definitely don't like Rene Meulensteen.

mitosis

Al Capwned wrote: »

Don't buy this at all tbh mate.
For example there is at least one very vocal Moyes out poster on this thread that I know for a fact is older than me, and I'm 36. No doubt there are fans that only want success but to call him and others a "glory fan" is unfair and to make such sweeping generalisations is never a good idea.

A generalisation naturally has exceptions. You quote my post as saying "glory fan". That phrase doesn't appear in my post.

My point stands thus:

The question posited was, why are there two camps among one set of supporters? My answer suggests there is one group who has experienced only success and expects that that is all there is, while the other group knows through experience that the past twenty-some years was not the normal standard for the club and understands there will need to be an adjustment in expectation.

Maximus Alexander

Julez wrote: »

Just on this... Who actually still believes we can make 4th?

For some reason I still do think we can, but I think its just my heart over my head. Just so used to winning now that my mind just wont let me think we won't, no matter how impossible.

I don't think it's impossible, but I do think it's highly unlikely. I'd be happy to just believe, but it ruins my weekend every time I allow myself to hope only to have the team turn out another lacklustre performance.

I've settled into a kind of numb acceptance. I'll just keep on supporting the team, expecting nothing, until next season.

Hidalgo

Julez wrote: »

Just on this... Who actually still believes we can make 4th?

For some reason I still do think we can, but I think its just my heart over my head. Just so used to winning now that my mind just wont let me think we won't, no matter how impossible.

Or maybe its this...

If Fergie was still in charge, then 4th would be possible (of course if he was still boss they'd be further up the table).

It'll take a collapse from Liverpool, Spurs and to a lesser extent Everton for Utd to get 4th. One might, but all 3. No way.

And then of course Utd have to go on the type of championship winning form that would be up there with anything they've achieved in the last 20 odd years

adox

No

mitosis wrote: »

A generalisation naturally has exceptions. You quote my post as saying "glory fan". That phrase doesn't appear in my post.

My point stands thus:

The question posited was, why are there two camps among one set of supporters? My answer suggests there is one group who has experienced only success and expects that that is all there is, while the other group knows through experience that the past twenty-some years was not the normal standard for the club and understands there will need to be an adjustment in expectation.

And I`d say you are still wrong. I would say there are plenty of supporters on here who were Utd supporters pre the premier league and still want Moyes gone.

I would also saying that you wrong with most of the post premier league supporters who want Moyes gone and are using a lazy argument to generalise about them.

GSPfan

No

Julez wrote: »

Just on this... Who actually still believes we can make 4th?

For some reason I still do think we can, but I think its just my heart over my head. Just so used to winning now that my mind just wont let me think we won't, no matter how impossible.

Or maybe its this...

What you dont see in that picture is the words "Cannot" and "This Sh1t" either side of that word.

TheDoc

I started supporting United because of Schmeichel. I was playing in goal for most of my schoolboy days and I loved Schmeichel to bits. He could do no wrong in my eyes, absolute inspiration and "hero" to me.

My grandmother bless her used to go into town on the bus, and get me every new United goalkeeper jersey that came out, with print on the back. I can always picture her having to pull out a piece of paper and hand it over to the shop attendant "Can you print this please, I can't pronounce it".

Obviously as I got older and started to get more of an appreciation for the game I started to I guess support the team, where previously I'd only cared about the goalkeeper.

I'd an uncle who played LOI football and was a staunch United supporter since the 70's.

My Dad was a massive Leeds fan since the 60's along with his Da. He would bring me to see Leeds play when they came over for pre-season tours, and would buy me Leeds jerseys and things to sway my allegience. To be honest I think it's fair to say I supported Leeds at a young age for two seasons. At a very impressionable age and where your Da is always right sort of thing.

Mates still give me guff about it ten years on.

When I got that age around 12-13 when you start becoming a little independant and making decisions I renounced my belief in God, and my support for Manchester United

My mothers side of the family are outragously die hard Liverpool fans. My cousin was signed by the club and spent a number of years there in the reserves and first team. They'd gone to players weddings, had them over for dinner and all that stuff, so there was a massive Liverpool influence.

There are obviously a number of factors relating to why you pick and support your club. Some are down to family ties and influence, some down to maybe a personal experience you had with the club or a player. Some are "gloryhunters". But I have an issue with that term, If you're young and impressionable, its reasonable to expect when your picking a side to follow, you pick a winning team.

I've two nephews at the moment who are going through that weird phase. My girlfriends family are diehard Liverpool fans, and when the two boys were born you'd swear the first wrapping they had was a liverpool crest . But as they have grown older their allegiances have shifted and changed.

One of them simply loves good players. His father is a fan of general football, and watches anything on. So the young fella at 9 years old is watching Bundeliga, Seria A, La Liga and the premiership. He was Liverpool mad, and it was only a while ago I was kicking ball with him out the back garden and when she scored a goal went realing away "REUS WITH A CRACKER!" . Burst my hole laughing. But with the extra coverage out there, it's giving people, especially impressionable children that range of talent and teams to be interested in.

The other nephew is actually excellent at football. He isn't old enough to play football, but played a few training games overage, and already people from the likes of Kevins have been onto the Da to try get him down to them. Was Liverpool mad, and now struts around calling himself Ronaldo, and chanting "Hala Madrid",

Times a changing, but I guess it's underlying the "glory hunter" sort of tag. It's one thing for a grown man to jump teams and allegiances to whoever is winning, but I've no beef with someone saying they started following a team when they were younger because they were winning. For people who don't live in a local proximity to a ground or club, I'd imagine the main influence is family support or who's winning on TV

My group of friends are Liverpool or United. That's it. I'd imagine when my kid grows up and has a groups of friends, there will be Chelsea's, Spurs and Man City thrown into the mix, and wouldn't be shocked to see Madrid, Barcalona and Munich etc in there too.

bullvine

No

Regarding fourth, if United got a bit of momentum and start putting some good wins together, then who knows, Liverpool could panic, after all they are an inexperienced team but thats just not going to happen.

RobertKK

Hopefully we do the double over Arsenal...

On a separate note, Ed Woodwood seems to be doing a good job....

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-02-12/man-united-shares-seen-rising-from-12-month-low-by-jefferies.html

According to an e-mailed research note, Jefferies expects an 11 percent rise in quarterly revenue to 122 million pounds ($201 million), “driven largely by growth in the company’s commercial arm.”

United expected to get back ahead of Bayern Munich in the world's richest football clubs in terms of sales.

that thumbs down thing was not suppose to there - edit.

bren2001

Hidalgo wrote: »

If Fergie was still in charge, then 4th would be possible (of course if he was still boss they'd be further up the table).

It'll take a collapse from Liverpool, Spurs and to a lesser extent Everton for Utd to get 4th. One might, but all 3. No way.

And then of course Utd have to go on the type of championship winning form that would be up there with anything they've achieved in the last 20 odd years

People keep on harping on about a collapse from one of those teams. There are 13 games left, win them all that is 80 points. 80 would easily get 4th.

Going on a 13 game winning streak is, of course, unlikely for any team but I think the squad is capable of doing such a run. Whether Moyes is? He usually brought Everton on quite a good run from about now, it is not unrealistic.

GSPfan

No

I started supporting United cause they won the 1990 FA Cup. I was 8 and I watched that 3-3 game and loved it. I remember watching the replay and wanting united to win it. So yeah I started following United as a direct result of Winning. So what?
If they don't win anything for the next 10 years I'll still support them. Glory Hunters are fans who switch teams to follow the silverware. Not fans who decided to follow them cause they were winning. I was 8, why would I follow a crap team?

tallaghtmick

No

Ive been supporting United since Liverpool went crap and I stopped supporting them, moved onto blackburn for a year then back to united, kinda flip flopped between united and arsenal for a while, a lil stint as a chelsea fan but settled with united......for now........;)

GSPfan

No

tallaghtmick wrote: »

Ive been supporting United since Liverpool went crap and I stopped supporting them, moved onto blackburn for a year then back to united, kinda flip flopped between united and arsenal for a while, a lil stint as a chelsea fan but settled with united......for now........;)

Impressed that you resisted following city!

Maximus Alexander

tallaghtmick wrote: »

Ive been supporting United since Liverpool went crap and I stopped supporting them, moved onto blackburn for a year then back to united, kinda flip flopped between united and arsenal for a while, a lil stint as a chelsea fan but settled with united......for now........;)

Al Capwned

mitosis wrote: »

A generalisation naturally has exceptions. You quote my post as saying "glory fan". That phrase doesn't appear in my post.

But it kinda does....

mitosis wrote: »

Because you have two types of fan. Type one who are fans perhaps through association and maybe have memories beyond the Ferguson era, and glory fans who only signed up when times were good and because times were good. This second group still craves instant gratification, so a change has to be made now.

Al Capwned

mitosis wrote: »

The question posited was, why are there two camps among one set of supporters? My answer suggests there is one group who has experienced only success and expects that that is all there is, while the other group knows through experience that the past twenty-some years was not the normal standard for the club and understands there will need to be an adjustment in expectation.

But there are many who have not supported the club for those 21 years that are willing to give Moyes time. Also there are many others who have supported the club for a lot longer who want him gone.

That is the problem I have with your opinion - you are saying the division between 'pro' and 'anti' Moyes is largely based on the length of time a particular supporter is supporting the club. This is clearly incorrect.

v3ttel

mitosis wrote: »

Because you have two types of fan. Type one who are fans perhaps through association and maybe have memories beyond the Ferguson era, and glory fans who only signed up when times were good and because times were good. This second group still craves instant gratification, so a change has to be made now.

mitosis wrote: »

A generalisation naturally has exceptions. You quote my post as saying "glory fan". That phrase doesn't appear in my post.

goodolegill

No

really this manager has become a joke in his press briefings - i cant believe ughs haven't spoken about his comments more in depth

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/feb/11/manchester-united-david-moyes

It was gently pointed out that his team were 21 points worse off than at this stage last season. "Well, I was at Everton so I wasn't 21 points worse off," he replied. "I was at Everton."

"The improvement in the teams in the Premier League has been big," - City are a point better off this season i think from last.

And for all us idiots who have been debating his tactics and whether its the back to basics model of kick and rush

"You need to have a football intelligence, a football brain, to understand first of all," he said of his tactics.

ITS ALL OUR FAULT BECAUSE WE DONT HAVE A FOOTBALL BRAIN!!

Maximus Alexander

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

LOL

Headshot

No

Man I love to talk about something positive but I just dont know what!

Maximus Alexander

Headshot wrote: »

Man I love to talk about something positive but I just dont know what!

Mata is a United player now.

tallaghtmick

No

GSPfan wrote: »

Impressed that you resisted following city!

Well im not a glory hunter!!!!!

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Ha no watched a match on TV for the 1st time and it was United, also my older bro's friend supported Leeds so my bro wanted the rival team and he picked United so that helped......luckily for us it was the 1st year of the prem and we won :pac:

TheDoc

Al Capwned wrote: »

That is the problem I have with your opinion - you are saying the division between 'pro' and 'anti' Moyes is largely based on the length of time a particular supporter is supporting the club. This is clearly incorrect.

Yeah I don't believe it as that at all.

If anything it's a difference in opinion of the task at hand, and the expected outcomes from it. And I don't think there is a definitive right answer, you can debate it either way.

I guess the Anti-Moyes main tagline is he has taken a team from champions to 7th in a short space of time, and the style of play has mainly stayed the same or regressed.

The Pro Moyes tagling is mainly an accelerated degradation of squad member quality, and an outlook that whoever took the job, time would be required regardless.

It's more down to forming opinions on the overall situation and how the manager has been dealing with it. I don't think it's as clear cut as "Anyone who supports Moyes is wrong" as sometimes Headshot for example would outline, but it's not as easy to defend him by saying he needs time, like I would champion.


It's just as much about managing your expectations. I came into the season expecting certain things, so when the horrid **** has happened, I havn't been devastated over it. I think some people are maybe struggling to adapt to the idea that we wouldn't have an easy ride this year, and when results are going against us, people are flipping out. Which is understandable.

But we only have to look around us. Liverpool recently dropping points to West Brom, Chelsea again last night. City failing to score in two games with a loss and draw. Then big clubs have all gone through change, and upsets were bound to happen. I rmemeber I said it during the summer, that whoever settles in quickest would have the best chance.

Mourinho was slow to settle in, and it showed early on, but hit his stride and unbeaten in 11.
Pellegrini settled relatively quickly, but still had issues with how to setup his side away from home. The evidence is there.
Moyes has definitly taken the longest and still isn't there yet, and that's showing.
Spurs got rid of AVB with a guy familiar with the club, has gone with the absolute BASICS of football, and they are reaping those results.

Arsenal and Liverpool are benefiting most this season, from having stability from years previous, having a plan and things in place. Granted Rodgers made some adjustments this season to a more quicker direct style, you can see they have capitalised on the uncertainty around.

I think it's just about expectations, and having an appreciation of what's happening with other clubs. Not exactly caring about their results, but being aware of what's happening around us.

The evidence is there, the clubs that took in new managers and regimes have had their slipups and struggles. Ours was the most monumental of shifts, and thats why it's that bit more chaotic when bad things happen.

Come next season, it's back to an even playing field. Top clubs are all settled with their managers, clear in what they want to do, off they go.

Moyes also had the disadvantage of not having experience operating at a big club, how it works, how to utilise the resources available to him, dealing with big egos and big expectations. That's a lesson you learn on the fly, and something that will be much more refined next season.

Don't forget this is a manager who spent ten years as the underdog, operating on shoe string budgets, trying to keep expectations realistic even as his team constantly over achieved. Through his stewardship and guidance.
And that sometimes has bled out this year, reluctance to criticise his team, mentioning good performances when they weren't. Can be tough to change a habbit of ten years overnight.

Mourinho, Pellegrini, Wenger, all experienced in dealing with the media, interviews and press as a big time manager, know when to critique their squad, and when to protect them. Moyes is still grasping that.

There is a lesson being learned at every corner here. As much as people like to mute other managers (Van Gaal, Conte etc) , there is about 2 coaches in the world that could come to United and have a relatively smooth transition, where the learning curve wouldn't be so steep.

Pep signed for Bayern well in advance, and Mourinho...well as much as he is a winner, I've outlined previously why I don't think he would be a good fit longterm.

TheDoc

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Doc I needn't even bother posting anymore. You keep saying exactly what I want to say, only better.

Stop you'll give me an ego

I think I might just be coming a little out of my shell this year because their is complex stuff to talk about. Before it was just maybe debating a signing, a tactic or a players form under Ferguson.

There is ammunition for a good rant at every corner this year. And I think alot of people are coming to the front with some really good discussion and points, and it's been relatively well thought out stuff. Like I get the vibe ProF and YourAirbag arn't the best of friends, but I find their interchanges on tactical stuff incredible to read, and it's only possible because

A) The chance to discuss is there this season
They arn't degrading themselves to stupidity and coming back at each other with well structured stuff.

Backstreet Moyes

Pro. F wrote: »

The short sighted approach of signing world class players that we didn't need, which got a lot of support on this thread, and ignoring the positions that we did need has led us directly to this point. Now fans are trying to come up with fanciful formations to fit all the players in. That's what's funny.

Like i asked how is it funny United fans jizzing over signing world class players. We don't make decisions on who we sign or how the team sets up. We want players bought for weaker positions but i don't see how it's funny that United fans get excited over signing two world class players. What i would find weird is United fans not being excited over signing world class players.

BloodBath

No

bren2001 wrote: »

People keep on harping on about a collapse from one of those teams. There are 13 games left, win them all that is 80 points. 80 would easily get 4th.

Going on a 13 game winning streak is, of course, unlikely for any team but I think the squad is capable of doing such a run. Whether Moyes is? He usually brought Everton on quite a good run from about now, it is not unrealistic.

I'd say 80 points would be enough to win the league this season. We don't need 80 points.

2moreMinutes

Re comments about the possibility of younger fans potentially being "glory hunters" who know no different. My nephew is 13 and his attitude to the whole thing is that we've been so dominant as long as he can remember that we were bound to have a terrible spell like most clubs. That's only a sample size of one person obviously!

Personally I'd say almost the opposite of what seems to be an underlying (and incorrect imo) assumption by some that's it's younger fans who are most pissed at this season. It nearly seems to be the older generation who are afraid of moving back into the dark days.

Julez

No

Lets put it this way, nobody wants to be shít.

sawfish

mitosis wrote: »

Because you have two types of fan. Type one who are fans perhaps through association and maybe have memories beyond the Ferguson era, and glory fans who only signed up when times were good and because times were good. This second group still craves instant gratification, so a change has to be made now.

United didn`t win the league in 2004,2005,2006. I think they only won the league cup during that period.

Plenty of us glory hunters stuck through that period and are still around!

Although not finishing top 4 would be a huge slap in the face!! Still holding out faint hope that Liverpool or maybe even Arsenal will bottle it!!

bren2001

BloodBath wrote: »

I'd say 80 points would be enough to win the league this season. We don't need 80 points.

Of course we don't need 80 points. I was just making the point that we are not at the stage of waiting on other teams to implode. It is still in our hands (in the unlikely event) we go on a very good run.

The 4th places finishes for the past 10 years have been:
73, 69, 68, 70, 72, 76, 68, 67, 61, 60
There is not going to be a huge shift from these numbers. On average it takes 68.4 points to qualify. I personally think it will take 73 to get fourth. That means we could drop 7 points. The obvious matches are Arsenal, City, Liverpool and Everton.

It is not impossible, just unlikely.

2moreMinutes

bucketybuck wrote: »

Its not about time, energy or patience, its about the fact that there isn't any real defence for Moyes beyond "We are United and we stand by our manager".

Thats the thing with Moyes, its been all bad so far, no positives to cling to beyond fairly basic stuff like "gave one young player a few games". This means it's incredibly hard on a message board to make a good case for defending him, you have to resort to blind faith rubbish like "Support him just because Fergie said so, no matter how bad it gets".

No wonder the pro-Moyes side is so quiet, they haven't anything they can say.

It's nothing to do with blind faith. I couldn't care less what Fergie said. I don't care what anyone said in the past nor what anyone says now. I think he should get time irrespective of how naiive some so called experts may claim I am.

My lack of time, energy and patience to get into long winded posts with people who never wanted Moyes because he doesn't have an exotic sounding name or because he didn't fit their perceptions of what a world class manager could be is very relevant.

I'm not stupid. I know improvements are required. I'm open to changing my mind on what is or isn't required. Those who want Moyes out now are not open to any suggestion that there may be improvements or that he can do the job as required.
These kind of football related debates remind me of debates about god and religion. No matter what is said by either party, there's very little common ground so things usually end up getting more heated than necessary.

sawfish

bren2001 wrote: »

I personally think it will take 73 to get fourth. That means we could drop 7 points. The obvious matches are Arsenal, City, Liverpool and Everton.

It is not impossible, just unlikely.

Very unlikely considering we have dropped five points in the last two games against stoke and fulham!!

Only way we can qualify is if Liverpool or Arsenal completely bottle it. Just can`t see it somehow.

Hopefully Moyes will put United`s money where is mouth is and buy big in the summer.

Giggsy11

bren2001 wrote: »

Of course we don't need 80 points. I was just making the point that we are not at the stage of waiting on other teams to implode. It is still in our hands (in the unlikely event) we go on a very good run.

The 4th places finishes for the past 10 years have been:
73, 69, 68, 70, 72, 76, 68, 67, 61, 60
There is not going to be a huge shift from these numbers. On average it takes 68.4 points to qualify. I personally think it will take 73 to get fourth. That means we could drop 7 points. The obvious matches are Arsenal, City, Liverpool and Everton.

It is not impossible, just unlikely.

It's impossible. We can't even win against Fulham nevermind winning all the games when we have games against City, Arsenal, Everton, Liverpool.

mitosis

v3ttel wrote: »

Wow! I must be going mental. I think I need more sleep. Thanks!!

Your Airbag

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ld-tSKeNpDY

Hidalgo

bren2001 wrote: »

People keep on harping on about a collapse from one of those teams. There are 13 games left, win them all that is 80 points. 80 would easily get 4th.

Going on a 13 game winning streak is, of course, unlikely for any team but I think the squad is capable of doing such a run. Whether Moyes is? He usually brought Everton on quite a good run from about now, it is not unrealistic.

There isn't a hope in hell of Utd winning anywhere near the remaining 13 games.
Not even City who have the best players, or Chelsea who have the best manager will achieve that.

And if they can't, then no other team will.
Has Ferguson even ever won the last 13 of a season, him or Mourhino are the only 2 I couls possibly envisage achieving such a feat

GSPfan

No

sawfish wrote: »

United didn`t win the league in 2004,2005,2006. I think they only won the league cup during that period.

Plenty of us glory hunters stuck through that period and are still around!

Although not finishing top 4 would be a huge slap in the face!! Still holding out faint hope that Liverpool or maybe even Arsenal will bottle it!!

Yeah and Spurs and Everton capitalise. We need 3 teams to bottle it. We are 7th not 5th.

Hidalgo

bren2001 wrote: »

Of course we don't need 80 points. I was just making the point that we are not at the stage of waiting on other teams to implode. It is still in our hands (in the unlikely event) we go on a very good run.

The 4th places finishes for the past 10 years have been:
73, 69, 68, 70, 72, 76, 68, 67, 61, 60
There is not going to be a huge shift from these numbers. On average it takes 68.4 points to qualify. I personally think it will take 73 to get fourth. That means we could drop 7 points. The obvious matches are Arsenal, City, Liverpool and Everton.

It is not impossible, just unlikely.

But its not in Utds hands. Even if they beat Liverpool at Old Trafford (I'm picking Liverpool as they're currently 4th), Utd still have to hope that Liverpool still f*ck up more games.

Very possible, but for Utd to get 4th, they need an amazing run themselves whilst simultaneously hoping other clubs lose and drop pts, and not just in the head to heads V Utd.

It's quite possible Liverpool will flounder, still plenty of games remaining, but if they do I can't see it being Utd that will benefit

Maximus Alexander

GSPfan wrote: »

Yeah and Spurs and Everton capitalise. We need 3 teams to bottle it. We are 7th not 5th.

Spurs and Everton are not relevant to the discussion. If United's form were to improve enough to be in contention for top 4, Spurs and Everton would be out of the running by default. They don't need to bottle it, just carry on as they are.

Its All Wright

We need a complete change in tactics, were not scoring enough and conceding to many. Its not rocket science but Moyes thinks were playing well and that were just unlucky. My fear is that this season will get a whole lot worse, i can see us going out of the Champions League this round. Perhaps the week away in Dubai will be a good bonding session and everyone will come back fit and ready for the fight but I'm having my doubts.

GSPfan

No

Can anyone remember the conversations from the Summer?

Here are a few topics that the majority of people got into arguements over....

(1) Evra is better than Baines!
(2) United won the league easily, they will at least finish 3rd even if we have a nightmare! We could accept that for Moyes first season.
(3) Minority - Moyes will be a disaster. Majority - No he won't, you're a disgrace to this forum. 2 years minimum.

user2011

No

Also he has no experience in Europe.

tallaghtmick

No

user2011 wrote: »

Also he has no experience in Europe.

Also I never wanted him so im even more angry.

Mitch Connor

No

GSPfan wrote: »

Can anyone remember the conversations from the Summer?

Here are a few topics that the majority of people got into arguements over....

(1) Evra is better than Baines!
(2) United won the league easily, they will at least finish 3rd even if we have a nightmare! We could accept that for Moyes first season.
(3) Minority - Moyes will be a disaster. Majority - No he won't, you're a disgrace to this forum. 2 years minimum.

I was in for all 3 really.

Didn't think Evra would be as bad - didn't think it was needed to spend 20million on a left back. I was wrong.

Thought United should be in 3rd or 4th, as an expectation. I think I said 3rd and decent cup runs would be a good season for us. Stand by that.

Thought Moyes was the wrong appointment, and was very vocal re. the mistakes I felt were being made. Stand by it now - he was the wrong appointment. I did think things would be better than they are, his first season in charge has been a far bigger disaster than I thought it would be, and his management of the team is worse than I thought it would be.

GSPfan

No

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Spurs and Everton are not relevant to the discussion. If United's form were to improve enough to be in contention for top 4, Spurs and Everton would be out of the running by default. They don't need to bottle it, just carry on as they are.

I'll put a gentlemans bet with you now that at least 1 of them will finish above us.

Our form will not improve enough to climb past 3 teams who are in good form. If they carry on as they are they all will finish above United.

Sure if we're just playing make believe then why not say we can win the Champions League if our form improves. Possible but improbable.

TheDoc

All the talk after the Fulham game let a little something slip through the radar.

Ravel Morrison being touted as possibly moving to QPR on loan. Has been out with injury lately, but Allardyce has publicly questioned the lads enthusiasm to complete for places.

Outlined the physios have said there is nothing that should inhibt Ravel from playing, and that he himself keeps saying he has a niggle here and there.

Questioned the players desire and professionalism to play at the highest level, and feels now that he's not a first team starter, he doesn't posses the attitude to work his way back in.

Was a very scathing and public(although calm and well articulated) summary of the fellas time at West Ham.

Felt SAF was 100% correct when he turfed him out and even more vindicated now.

CSF

No

"A lot of people are looking at the Fulham game and saying we crossed it too much. If we hadn't crossed it they would be saying we should have crossed it more.
"Anybody who watched the game the other day and didn't think we deserved to win by a hundred miles knows nothing about it."

This man is severely lacking in intelligence. His interviews are starting to like Staunton's.