Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod Warning: Post #7871

TheDoc

wonderfullife wrote: »

Good post with good points.

The point I was trying to convey that there is some highly successful mangers around Europe that started from humble beginnings.

And it simply has to happen. But once you get that big win, once you get that first title, your impression in world football changes. All of a sudden you have access to jobs that you wouldn't have access to before.

I wasn't claiming that those in my post, or Moyes, achieved monumental success and that Moyes is going to be amazing.

It was a comparison that against some other top managers, he is extremely similar in his situation and rise to a big club. It's about identifying the good things that coach/manager has done, then taking the gamble.

It's a difficult point I'm trying to make because the instant reaction to a Ancelloti ,Guardialo or Mourinho is "WTF are you talking about, they've won loads of things"

But the point being they only one those things, when someone took a risk on them, and identified from reviewing their entire portfolio, the benefits they could bring to the club.

We can look back in hindsight now obviously with the successful managers that the risk paid off, and how they operate blah blah blah.

What IF Moyes won the league next season.
What IF Moyes won the league and Champions league within 2 years.

As unlikely as it might seem, the point I'm making is once you get that FIRST title, your stature jumps up expedentionally. But to get that first one, you need someone to take the risk, give you the backing and resources to have a fair shot. Look at Benitez, he is a FASCINATING case study, of a manager who when he got his first title, put him into the category of "big club "manager, when on reflection of his overall portfolio, it might not be merited.

We've gambled on Moyes, we've taken an almighty risk considering the strengthening going on at our rivals. But let's give him the resources and support he needs, the time to learn from his mistakes and see where it takes us. If we fire him now, bringing in a new manager is someone else taking over, learning the ropes and it will still be next season before we are hitting the ground running.

What merit is there removing him, even this week. Who comes in? What happens?

New regime, more change to a squad who have had a more turbulent season of change then most. Few weeks to settle in, another few months for a new manager to make his own evaluations.

Previous groundwork on targets and transfers scrapped, started fresh by a new manager with new ideas. It's pressing the reset button, which I don't see the merit in, when at this stage with what seems to be a few key issues, will only get addressed in the summer anyway.

Look at what happened, in just one example, with Strootman. ON Fergies radar for a while, wanted to see how he would do with one more season with PSV. His essential breakthrough season. Stomped the qualifers for Holland, stomped Erdvise for PSV, and then tailed of at the end of the season, for reasons beyond his footballing ability.

New manager comes in, new ideas, new outlook on players, and we pass up arguably one of the breakthrough talents of the year. Not Thiago, no Vidal, Strootman. Critical core to a Roma team who put together a complete surprise performance in Serie A.

TheDoc

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

TheDoc is a guy willing to have a debate without thinking he is Mister ****ing Fantastic.

Some of his recent stuff has been hard to argue against.

and he is not a crowd pleaser either

I'm getting way to much attention lately

If I was talking to myself it would be a load of rubbish, I'm only being prompted to engage because other people are being engaging and there is just good **** going on here lately, coming out of the chaos at the club.

In fairness you'll notice I don't go OVERLY into things like formations and tactics and the likes. You get a feel for the place, and you realise some guys here are more powerful at conveying that stuff. If anything I just enjoy writing some thought provoking stuff, that somewhere has a point or a comparison.

I'm waiting now for the post I make where the replies are all " He's lost it" haha.

Backstreet Moyes

Pro. F wrote: »

It's not your job to fit the players in yet you are on here posting formations and suggestions of how to fit them all in.

You may pretend that you don't care if the club make a mess of the team, but pretending is all you are doing.

Yes it is not my job to fit the players in and i am posting suggestions because it is a forum where people discuss Man United. I care about the club and i am talking about ideas for the team with the players we have now.

You find it funny that fans got excited over Mata and RVP. I find it very strange that any fan would not want world class signings. You and i have no idea if these transfers are the reason we didn't sign players in other areas.

TheDoc

I guess separately I'm sort of open minded, in that I've genuine interest in understanding why people think a certain way.

Why should Moyes go and what the options after.
What can we do bar mass crossing

All those sort of examples. As I say I've taken alot of influence from here down the years. An example this year was the creeping of Evra being a liability. And I started noticing it more and more, and my first reaction to both Fulham goals was Evra and what he was doing. If I hadn't have witnessed all the good Evra discussion, during a match I probably wouldn't have even noticed it.

I don't see back and forths as arguments or having a row, I see it as one side explaining their opinion to the other. Obviously at a point you will agree or disagree, but at least when it comes to the issue, after having that discussion, I'll be able to understand the various aspects to it, apart from my own feelings and opinion.

no one knows everything about football, people have played at different levels, watch different leagues, experienced different styles formations and positions. There is so much to it, it's nearly egotistical to act or behave like you DON'T need to hear or listen to anyone else, and atleast make an attempt to understand their point of view.

tallaghtmick

No

keane2097 wrote: »

Man alive, theDoc is posting some great stuff these last few days.

I guess you could say its just what theDoc ordered.....

Vic Vinegar

Fellaini is in the squad for tonight.

Great news. Hope he kicks on from here and becomes the signing we all hoped he'd be.

TheDoc

Nuts102 wrote: »

Yes it is not my job to fit the players in and i am posting suggestions because it is a forum where people discuss Man United. I care about the club and i am talking about ideas for the team with the players we have now.

You find it funny that fans got excited over Mata and RVP. I find it very strange that any fan would not want world class signings. You and i have no idea if these transfers are the reason we didn't sign players in other areas.

I think to further expand the point, we are making grave assumptions that no effort was made in signing a LB or CM, again, during January. It's possible some things were explored and it just wasn't viable. Janaury can be extremely difficult to sign a big impact player.

I think when something comes along like Mata, it's hard to turn down.

At the start of the season Moyes had little exposure to the teams habbits and form, and on paper had

Kagawa
Nani
Rooney,
Wellbeck
Januzaj ( although we could argue he might not have expected such an impact from him)

All of these somewhat on paper can play a creative role in an attacking formation, centrally or from wide.

So when the Ozil situation popped up, I fully understand why Moyes maybe felt Ozil would be a luxury purchase, when he was more focused on securing a CM.

Roll on January, and Kagawa has failed to cement a place, Wellbeck has drifted in and out of form and injury. Nani has been injured again for large portions and Rooney suffering niggles.

Coupled with the teams general poor ability to carve out chances, I get why Mata would be tempting, and I get why he got him. He operated both centrally but also from the wide positions for Chelsea to devastating effect. There is minimum risk compared to Ozil, in that Mata is proven in the PL (And we have REALLY good track records in buying proven PL players)

Ozil if you look now, is not as flash as he first appeared. When you break it down, Ozil did well against some poor sides, has failed to setup really in the big games, and has been ineffective in the last what, two months?

Tonight he could either stuff us in saying "Don't need me do you?" or could just as easily float through another big game being ineffective.


When a star singing presents itself to you, it can be very hard to turn down, and can sometimes even be the catalyst to changing a plan. Don't forget we bought Kagawa to slot in behind Rooney who was to play up front as our main striker. Yet Ferguson not only splashed 20+m for RVP, but risked his 15m investment in Kagawa, and on reflection, has somewhat been a square peg in a round hole since.

GSPfan

No

How many words a minute can you type TheDoc?

Rapid fire articles coming out of you today.

TheDoc

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

Fellaini is in the squad for tonight.

Great news. Hope he kicks on from here and becomes the signing we all hoped he'd be.

Would that be a surprise start? Or maybe late introduction ?

with the wrist and back injury I think you could start relatively easy from that, but with a hamstring injury (I think thts what he had) probably needs to be care here.

ON top of the fact he hasn't played in a while, will probably be a late introduction if we are comfy and doing well, unused sub if we are behind. (Unless we bring him on up front to bury all those crosses :cool: )

wonderfullife

No

TheDoc wrote: »

The point I was trying to convey that there is some highly successful mangers around Europe that started from humble beginnings.

.....

It's a difficult point I'm trying to make because the instant reaction to a Ancelloti ,Guardialo or Mourinho is "WTF are you talking about, they've won loads of things"

But the point being they only one those things, when someone took a risk on them, and identified from reviewing their entire portfolio, the benefits they could bring to the club.

We can look back in hindsight now obviously with the successful managers that the risk paid off, and how they operate blah blah blah.

What IF Moyes won the league next season.
What IF Moyes won the league and Champions league within 2 years.

As unlikely as it might seem, the point I'm making is once you get that FIRST title, your stature jumps up expedentionally. But to get that first one, you need someone to take the risk, give you the backing and resources to have a fair shot. Look at Benitez, he is a FASCINATING case study, of a manager who when he got his first title, put him into the category of "big club "manager, when on reflection of his overall portfolio, it might not be merited.

We've gambled on Moyes, we've taken an almighty risk considering the strengthening going on at our rivals. But let's give him the resources and support he needs, the time to learn from his mistakes and see where it takes us. If we fire him now, bringing in a new manager is someone else taking over, learning the ropes and it will still be next season before we are hitting the ground running.

....

The 3 names you mentioned, 2 of them had similar ish portfolios.

Ancelotti and Guardiola were massively decorated and accomplished players. Carlo winning the European Cup twice as a player and many domestic titles. Guardiola, likewise, 6 La Liga Titles, a European Cup etc.

So when Juventus and Barcelona gave them their chances in management, they were gambling on world class players becoming top managers. That's a very different gamble to appointing a manager with nearly 15 years of managerial experience for no honours.

With Mourinho, his portfolio was one of a lifelong pursuit of management. From such a young age, with no potential to be a pro himself, he pursued it dilligently and ruthlessly. From humble translating with Bobby Robson to ultimately being given his big break with Porto a decade later.

Again, Mourinho was ultimately appointed as a rookie manager. He had relatively no experience of management. Like Pep and Carlo. Between the 3 of them they had roughly 3 and a half years of management under their belt combined when they got their big breaks.

I have no problem with Manchester United taking gambles on appointments. Ryan Giggs - that's a gamble. That'd be an appointment from the heart that goes "right, this may not work folks but bear with us we're going to give this guy a shot".

Moyes is the wrong type of gamble to make because there is an abundance of evidence what he is capable of from Everton and Preston. Unlike Carlo and Pep, he had no experience of top class European football as a player. Unlike Mourinho, he didn't serve an apprenticeship behind the scenes at clubs, dilligently working his way upwards.

He was thrown in by Preston. They took the gamble. It paid off for them. Everton took a gamble on him, of sorts, and it paid off for them.

But Manchester United are not gambling on a rookie who may prove to be world class based on his history as a player. They are not gambling on a man like Mourinho who may be top class on his pure ambition alone.

If United wanted to gamble (and i'm not sure there was any need) but if they wanted to gamble on an unproven man at least go with a) an ex-world-class player or b) an up and coming unproven coach.

So you'd be looking at Giggs, Scholes, Pochettino and the like. They would be gambles because there is every chance they could fail miserably and every chance they could prove massive successes.

To use a horse racing analogy:

United appointing Moyes is like betting on a horse stepping up in Grade. So a horse that has done ok in Group 2 and Group 3 Level races and they are betting when he steps up he can take on better opposition. But you can already see what the horse has done at the lower levels.

United appointing Giggs (for example) is like betting on an unraced, well-bred horse. It may turn out to be a Frankel or it may be useless and sold out of the yard in a year. But you're betting on the potential based on the breeding of the horse, it's pedigree.

For Manchester United to take the former gamble, to my mind, is ridiculous and unnecessary. Because you already have a lot of evidence of what the horse can do (Moyes) and enough to know if he can't cut it quickly at the higher level, he never will.

He's already shown he can't cut it. He looks lost, under pressure, constantly refers to United in the past tense ("this is what this club has done for donkeys years", "these players have shown in the past they can win" etc). He needs to realise fast the past is gone and it doesn't matter what the players have done in the past. It matters what he can get out of them. And the answer, this season, is very little.

He has to go.

GSPfan

No

I'd be inclined to stick Fellaini up front. If we're gonna cross it we might aswell have his big mallet in there. Sorry Robin, you're benched.

TheDoc

GSPfan wrote: »

How many words a minute can you type TheDoc?

Rapid fire articles coming out of you today.

I remember I did an interview with Ryanair for a summer job, where the first part of the interview was a typing test. I clocked in 150wpm and they gave me the job right there and then ::p

It's around the 120-150wpm mark( Me and Trilla used to work together, he might remember my keyboards smoking haha)

Football is a fantastic cover for what is otherwise an embarrassing nerdy existence, that I'm sure many of you have discovered clicking on my youtube channel

The_Kew_Tour

No

TheDoc wrote: »

I remember I did an interview with Ryanair for a summer job, where the first part of the interview was a typing test. I clocked in 150wpm and they gave me the job right there and then ::p

It's around the 120-150wpm mark( Me and Trilla used to work together, he might remember my keyboards smoking haha)

Football is a fantastic cover for what is otherwise an embarrassing nerdy existence, that I'm sure many of you have discovered clicking on my youtube channel

150wpm???????????????????????:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

One Hundred and fecking fifty?????????????????????????

Thats good going.

Pro. F

No

Your Airbag wrote: »

What a pile of "I knew this was going to happen" captain hindsight nonsense.

Yes we were short sighted and we are having to deal with problems the signings created at the club unlike the other fans are not having to deal with it???????? No fan is having to deal with anything, we are all watching the season unfold. Get off your high horse.

Since I always predicted these problems it is not "captain hindsight nonsense".

Many fans on here have argued long and hard with me about how signing the best number 9s and 10s in the world was a good idea, was in fact something that we had to do, even though we already had a share of excellent players in those positions. Now many fans on here are posting ridiculous formations, trying to squeeze them all into one team. So I get to laugh and say "I told you so."

Ah ha ha ha, I told you so.

Your Airbag wrote: »

We all know you had bizarre reservations about RVP signing that looked even sillier the season after when he singled handedly dragged us to a league title. His signing made nothing but sense. Your view of him doesn't.

Also RVP is a better striker than Rooney and Rooney is a better no.10 when it comes to dropping deep and creating. RVP is a better out and out goal scorer. They have a good balance.

In 11/12 Rooney got 27 goals and 4 assists and the team finished on 89 points with a goal difference of +56. In 12/13 van Persie got 26 goals and 9 assists and the team finished on 89 points with a goal difference of +43. The idea that RvP was necessary for the club to be successful is ludicrous.

I agree that Rooney and RvP fit together reasonably well, I have defended Rooney as a 10 a lot. But the truth is that Rooney + a world class 10 would be better than RvP+Rooney. We have spent £76m plus wages on RvP, Mata and Kagawa and end up with a final attack that is less effective than it could have been and full of compromises. That is a waste of money. It is even more of a waste of money when we have left the left-back and centre midfield in such a poor state.

In spite of what the fantasist crowd on here think, there are limits on transfer spending and wages at this club and if fans want the most long term success then they should want the best use of those funds. Fantasy signings which leave the squad unbalanced do not achieve that.

Your Airbag wrote: »

Mata is three games into his UTD career. You say him winning player off the month out wide means nothing??? Rubbish, it means he can play well out wide, create and have an impact there. Like he has already done for UTD What nonsense are you talking?

The fact your were wrong on RVP and look to be as wrong on Mata means you were wrong in your reservations. Its not a struggle to put them into a formation, in fact its very easy.

The two highlighted bits show how laughably short-termist your view is.

Mata winning player of the month does not prove that he works perfectly from wide. The vote isn't a close tactical examination of his strengths, weaknesses and aptitude for a particular position. Holding it up as evidence that there are not issues with him playing in that position is an extremely weak argument.

Edit: And I said that RvP would score a lot of goals, so no, I was not wrong about his signing.

Vic Vinegar

TheDoc wrote: »

Would that be a surprise start? Or maybe late introduction ?

with the wrist and back injury I think you could start relatively easy from that, but with a hamstring injury (I think thts what he had) probably needs to be care here.

ON top of the fact he hasn't played in a while, will probably be a late introduction if we are comfy and doing well, unused sub if we are behind. (Unless we bring him on up front to bury all those crosses :cool: )

I reckon he'll be on the bench, although, would Fletch be able for 2 games in quick succession? If not, Fellaini may have to start, or Jones maybe, haven't heard if he's in the squad or not though!



BTW, 150 wpm is crazy, not sure i can even think that fast!

keane2097

No

TheDoc wrote: »

I remember I did an interview with Ryanair for a summer job, where the first part of the interview was a typing test. I clocked in 150wpm and they gave me the job right there and then ::p

It's around the 120-150wpm mark( Me and Trilla used to work together, he might remember my keyboards smoking haha)

Football is a fantastic cover for what is otherwise an embarrassing nerdy existence, that I'm sure many of you have discovered clicking on my youtube channel

You don't want to write about GAA by any chance do you? :pac:

Julez

No

TheDoc wrote: »

clicking on my youtube channel

**Clicks on youtube channel**

Pro. F

No

TheDoc wrote: »

Wasn't preaching to you specifically, I kinda got that you were able to somewhat measure success more by titles and cups etc.

but it was a good time to make the point anyway, as a lot of the "What has he done to deserve it"

seems to stem from his lack of trophies and titles.

I don't think that is a defined critera by which an appointment is made, or should be made, regardless of the clubs stature.

And I just think the definition of "success" got a little muddied in the water.

What is preaching to me specifically is quoting my mention of his limited success at Everton and then telling me that judging him by that is narrow minded. You might think it was a good time to make the point, but you made it to the wrong person since I didn't hold it against him when he was appointed.

onemorechance

...
Woodward said: "It's fair to say we are focused on strengthening the squad and looking at some players to sell."
...
He warned large-scale changes could "destabilise" the team but insisted: "We're not afraid to move in the market in a way we haven't in recent years."
...
He said: "Historically, we've had roughly three sales and three purchases each year, and it's possible we'll do more than that. It's a dynamic situation.

"We're not in the position we want to be in and we're working hard to change that. We will invest in our squad as needed to make sure we're competing at the highest level.

"Our focus is on building a competitive squad to challenge for trophies. We have the ability to buy players... to make sure we are competing at the top level."
...
Woodward said: "We are very pleased to have added a world-class player in Juan Mata to our squad, who has already made a positive impact."
...
"Some of our competitors have not won the league for a long time and they still sell a lot of shirts globally. So that is not something I am sitting here concerned about."
On Wednesday, United's financial results for the final three months of 2013 showed revenues rose 11.6% from a year earlier, to £122.9m.

BBC

Vidic is leaving, Giggs might retire, Rio might as well retire, Evra and Nani are likely to go I think, as well as Hernandez. Valencia gets lots of games under Moyes and I think he'll keep Ashley.

"Historically" it's 3 out and 3 in "and it's possible we'll do more than that"; it's should be more like 6 out and 6 in this summer.

wonderfullife

No

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

I reckon he'll be on the bench, although, would Fletch be able for 2 games in quick succession? If not, Fellaini may have to start, or Jones maybe, haven't heard if he's in the squad or not though!



BTW, 150 wpm is crazy, not sure i can even think that fast!

Not wishing to doubt TheGod (i mean TheDoc but hey you're not doing bad praise wise in here today ) but....

150wpm on a QWERTY layout keyboard is absolutely unsustainable and if you can type at 150wpm then i'd be calling the Guinness Book of World Records because the World Record on a simplistic layout keyboard (Dvorak) is 150wpm for 50 minutes.

On the off chance you are actually God or should be in the World Record books here's a little challenge:

http://www.typingtest.com/

You get a nice neat number at the end of the 1 minute test, screen shot it and post it here With Boards.ie open in a tab as proof!

TheDoc

wonderfullife wrote: »

More good points

I have to agree here, something I didn't factor in really was them being such highly decorated players.

I tend to dismiss that as totally irrelevant, considering there is a bin full of great players who turned into rubbish managers, but I have to accept that boards and club owners still probably stick to this assumption that good player = good manager.

Wenger would probably be another I could put on my list, came to Arsenal from managing J League if I'm not mistaken. That's as big a gamble as you like.

Klopp would be another. Although I'm led to believe he played his entire career for Mainz before managing them (Bundesliga Hipster insert facts here). But it's not like Dortmund were a nobody. Granted some financial problems they were champions league and bundesliga winners and contenders, and went with a guy who's only measure of success was keeping Mainz afloat. And a youtube doc I watched and he actually got relegated with Mainz, yet still got the Bundesliga point.

I don't want to harper on about it, but there is plenty of examples of what are now good, competent, successful coaches and managers, that had humble, less then jawdropping or trophy laden beginnings.

mobydopy

Just realized Southampton are only 2 point behind us and will remain that way if we get nothing out of this game. What is happening!!!! :eek:

TheDoc

wonderfullife wrote: »

Not wishing to doubt TheGod (i mean TheDoc but hey you're not doing bad praise wise in here today ) but....

150wpm on a QWERTY layout keyboard is absolutely unsustainable and if you can type at 150wpm then i'd be calling the Guinness Book of World Records because the World Record on a simplistic layout keyboard (Dvorak) is 150wpm for 50 minutes.

On the off chance you are actually God or should be in the World Record books here's a little challenge:

http://www.typingtest.com/

You get a nice neat number at the end of the 1 minute test, screen shot it and post it here With Boards.ie open in a tab as proof!

Sure I'll run it now, people are starting to leave work, loud noises about to come in.

Might be totally mis-remembering, but it was definitely over 120 when I did it last.

TheDoc

Attached is one I did after post above.

150wpm iswell and truly be my horrendous mistake. definitely have done 110's and 120's though for sure ( I think, now I'm doubting myself)


I think I've made that "He's lost it" post

TheDoc

**** ya anyway now you have me hooked on beating 110.

8-10

Best of luck to you lads tonight! Will be cheering you on silently. Really hope you go on and stuff them!

- pool fan

wonderfullife

No

TheDoc wrote: »

Attached is one I did after post above.

150wpm iswell and truly be my horrendous mistake. definitely have done 110's and 120's though for sure ( I think, now I'm doubting myself)


I think I've made that "He's lost it" post

TheDoc wrote: »

**** ya anyway now you have me hooked on beating 110.

Haha i know it's so addictive, i keep getting to 85 and 90, i wasted a whole weekend one time trying to get to 100 and kept getting 98 and 97

Anything about 70 is pretty good though i think.

But 150 is world record stuff, especially if you can sustain it for an hour

TheDoc

Yeah I'm going to go tempt fate driving in those conditions to get home.

Fingers crossed for tonight, will be avoiding the match thread but will pop in post match to see how tempers fare

Saucy McKetchup

No

Ashley young interview on MUTV now, just said how they've talked about bad luck all season

Has moyes already instilled his beliefs in the players?

Deiseboy01

TheDoc wrote: »

I guess separately I'm sort of open minded, in that I've genuine interest in understanding why people think a certain way.

Why should Moyes go and what the options after.
What can we do bar mass crossing

All those sort of examples. As I say I've taken alot of influence from here down the years. An example this year was the creeping of Evra being a liability. And I started noticing it more and more, and my first reaction to both Fulham goals was Evra and what he was doing. If I hadn't have witnessed all the good Evra discussion, during a match I probably wouldn't have even noticed it.

I don't see back and forths as arguments or having a row, I see it as one side explaining their opinion to the other. Obviously at a point you will agree or disagree, but at least when it comes to the issue, after having that discussion, I'll be able to understand the various aspects to it, apart from my own feelings and opinion.

no one knows everything about football, people have played at different levels, watch different leagues, experienced different styles formations and positions. There is so much to it, it's nearly egotistical to act or behave like you DON'T need to hear or listen to anyone else, and atleast make an attempt to understand their point of view.

They should add the above to the charter

Your Airbag

Pro. F wrote: »

Since I always predicted these problems it is not "captain hindsight nonsense".

Many fans on here have argued long and hard with me about how signing the best number 9s and 10s in the world was a good idea, was in fact something that we had to do, even though we already had a share of excellent players in those positions. Now many fans on here are posting ridiculous formations, trying to squeeze them all into one team. So I get to laugh and say "I told you so."

Ah ha ha ha, I told you so.



In 11/12 Rooney got 27 goals and 4 assists and the team finished on 89 points with a goal difference of +56. In 12/13 van Persie got 26 goals and 9 assists and the team finished on 89 points with a goal difference of +43. The idea that RvP was necessary for the club to be successful is ludicrous.

I agree that Rooney and RvP fit together reasonably well, I have defended Rooney as a 10 a lot. But the truth is that Rooney + a world class 10 would be better than RvP+Rooney. We have spent £76m plus wages on RvP, Mata and Kagawa and end up with a final attack that is less effective than it could have been and full of compromises. That is a waste of money. It is even more of a waste of money when we have left the left-back and centre midfield in such a poor state.

In spite of what the fantasist crowd on here think, there are limits on transfer spending and wages at this club and if fans want the most long term success then they should want the best use of those funds. Fantasy signings which leave the squad unbalanced do not achieve that.



The two highlighted bits show how laughably short-termist your view is.

Mata winning player of the month does not prove that he works perfectly from wide. The vote isn't a close tactical examination of his strengths, weaknesses and aptitude for a particular position. Holding it up as evidence that there are not issues with him playing in that position is an extremely weak argument.

Edit: And I said that RvP would score a lot of goals, so no, I was not wrong about his signing.

Whats more cringe worthy then the bolded part is you thinking you have something to laugh about.

Your actually laughing that the signing of Mata and RVP like you have proven something? You haven't.

You say you knew RVP would score a lot of goals, like thats hard to predict but still say we would be better without him. No we wouldn't.

You said I have a shorterm view of Mata yet your willing to say he can't work the players up front after three games.

You say Rooney and RVP can work well together?

Your all over the place.

RVP has been out injured but has come back in and scored in a line up that included Mata and Rooney. Rooney has been out. Mata has already played the no 10 role. It makes sense to have him so if one of our strikers are out, as they have been plenty we can play him no 10 and Roo or RVP upfront.

Have RVP, Roo, Mata and Jan as an attacking four would work fine with them interchanging once we get quality LB/RB's in. Your view in incredibly shorterm.

People post formation suggestions all the time, with different players rotated. Your trying to make this sound like a problem so you can do your I told you so nonsense. A formation with RVP, roo and Mata is simple.

RVP and Rooney will bag plenty of goals, Mata and Jan will create loads. Your talking complete rubbish.

GSPfan

No

Your Airbag and Pro F. should just kiss and get it over with. All this aggressive quote flirting is distracting.

wonderfullife

No

Posting on boards is cyclical like some of football.

Some posters go through Championship winning runs of form. TheDoc might be on one now. LuckyLloyd was on one for years.

Some posters seek a fight or to always think they are right. If you search this thread alone i could pick a dozen posts where Pro F has approached it with "i'm right, you're talking sh1te" style. Not singling him out either, We all go through that approach at times.

Ultimately the best thing is there's an abundance of characters with opinions and that's what makes football (and the Soccer forum) so good. A mix of everything from the brilliant, the bad, the poetic, the pure wrong, and the downright WUMMERY.

Enjoy it while it lasts Doc, you too might suffer a Lloyd like fall from grace at some point but like him you'll "transition" back to the big time again Probably sooner than Manchester United will!!

Personally, on a side note, i feel the only way Moyes will get the bullet this season is one more thrashing. If the Arsenal somehow stick 4 or 5 past them tonight he'd surely be on massively thin ice given support for sacking him is gaining momentum.

Rayne Wooney

If Moyes has watched the tape of the Fulham game, and watched the tape of the Liverpool-Arsenal game, and hasn't changed anything, I give up.

brinty

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

If Moyes has watched the tape of the Fulham game, and watched the tape of the Liverpool-Arsenal game, and hasn't changed anything, I give up.

I'd say we might try and go for 100+ crosses tonight :P

KH25

No

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

If Moyes has watched the tape of the Fulham game, and watched the tape of the Liverpool-Arsenal game, and hasn't changed anything, I give up.

Im still baffled at how he thought crossing the ball incessantly was a good idea against a team that was generally much taller than ours!

Lord TSC

No

How is the weather in London tonight anyway? I'd imagine those winds will cause us more bad luck :P

The_Kew_Tour

No

Is the City game off?

edit: it is

mobydopy

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Is the City game off?

edit: it is

where did u hear that from?

Rayne Wooney

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

How is the weather in London tonight anyway? I'd imagine those winds will cause us more bad luck :P

Well a friend said the wind is not a problem 25 kph and it's not too cold, compare that to say Dublin now 70 kph, apparently they're not getting the storm yet I'm not sure if they are at all.

There should be no blaming the wind tonight anyway

The_Kew_Tour

No

mabroorahmed99 wrote: »

where did u hear that from?

Its off alright...bbc

Ok guys, off to the pub. I will check in after match...Fingers crossed we get some sort of a decent performance.

The_Kew_Tour

No

Im off to watch this with some Liverpool supporters.

God help me.

The_Kew_Tour

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Im off to watch this with some Liverpool supporters.

God help me.

You'll all be hoping for the same result tonight anyway. Enjoy!

Pro. F

No

GSPfan wrote: »

Your Airbag and Pro F. should just kiss and get it over with. All this aggressive quote flirting is distracting.

How about you mind your own business for once and stop making an issue about how other people discuss things on a discussion forum? You're a broken fúcking record at this stage.

Saucy McKetchup

No

De gea
Rafael
Smalling
Vidic
Evra
Cleverley
Carrick
Valencia
Rooney
Mata
Rvp


No surprises really, fellaini on the bench

Lord TSC

No

I know we are short at the back, but it makes me cringe seeing Vidic starting after his performance against Fulham. And I just cringe in general at Val.

How come Januzaj has been dropped so much though since Mata came in? Could he not play instead of Val?

GSPfan

No

Pro. F wrote: »

How about you mind your own business for once and stop making an issue about how other people discuss things on a discussion forum? You're a broken fúcking record at this stage.

No.

Love you too.

Saucy McKetchup

No

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

I know we are short at the back, but it makes me cringe seeing Vidic starting after his performance against Fulham. And I just cringe in general at Val.

How come Januzaj has been dropped so much though since Mata came in? Could he not play instead of Val?

I would have liked to have seen vidic and evra dropped for rio and butter after the fulham game, I really can't understand why januzaj hasn't started lately

bucketybuck

No

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

How come Januzaj has been dropped so much though since Mata came in? Could he not play instead of Val?

I would rather have the tea lady on the right than Valencia, but it will do Januzaj no harm at all to stay out of the limelight for a while.