Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod Warning: Post #7871

Danger781

No

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Of course it's a wtf call if he's not allowed to do anything other than the thing which hasn't worked all season.

Which is essentially what's happening.

Whatsisname

No

Surely if the players don't like his tactics or orders, they can say "**** this" and play their own game, we all know these players can play a lot better than this and surely that'd show Moyes that what he's doing isn't working if they got results. Or maybe I'm just being naive.

xtal191

No

Headshot wrote: »

My choices of managers would be Conte, Simeone and Klopp. Now they are a proper choice for a manager

Each have amazing C.V for their current respective team and a trophy haul to prove it.

They're the 3 I'd be going for too with Conte being the number 1 choice.

CSF

No

Whatsisname wrote: »

Surely if the players don't like his tactics or orders, they can say "**** this" and play their own game, we all know these players can play a lot better than this and surely that'd show Moyes that what he's doing isn't working if they got results. Or maybe I'm just being naive.

I imagine they'd be subbed immediately. Rightly so too.

Umpalumpa

If the players aren't happy with the style of play surely they would speak their mind,or is moyes the type of man to listen?

Rayne Wooney

The players realise the style can't change with the players we have currently (maybe Fellaini and Carrick hitting form can change this)

Exhibit A



Now ask yourself why the defence hoof it forward, and look at exhibit A again


* I am saying the midfield is the problem, not Cleverley alone

Rubber_Soul

No

Whatsisname wrote: »

Surely if the players don't like his tactics or orders, they can say "**** this" and play their own game, we all know these players can play a lot better than this and surely that'd show Moyes that what he's doing isn't working if they got results. Or maybe I'm just being naive.

Would you actually like players like that at the club?

Your Airbag

Ole Gunnar Solskjaer: 'Wilfried Zaha can be the next Cristiano Ronaldo'

http://www.sportsmole.co.uk/football/cardiff-city/news/solskjaer-zaha-can-be-the-next-ronaldo_134847.html

Whatsisname

No

StarshipPooper wrote: »

Would you actually like players like that at the club?

I may have phrased that wrong.

What I mean is, everything is too static and strict, the players are reluctant to try anything out of Moyes' orders (by the looks of it). Rather than completely ignore all tactics and undermine the manager, which is not what I meant to imply, just play with a bit more "expression" for want of a better word, be more daring and not be afraid to try things that could go wrong.

masti123

No

When's Fellaini expected to be back?

Will I Amnt

No

Your Airbag wrote: »

http://www.sportsmole.co.uk/football/cardiff-city/news/solskjaer-zaha-can-be-the-next-ronaldo_134847.html

Bit of a leap there from Ole :pac:
At 21, his career and form would have to go into overdrive to get even halfway to Ronaldo's level.

Maximus Alexander

Whatsisname wrote: »

Surely if the players don't like his tactics or orders, they can say "**** this" and play their own game, we all know these players can play a lot better than this and surely that'd show Moyes that what he's doing isn't working if they got results. Or maybe I'm just being naive.

I think it is a bit naive. 11 players doing their own thing is likely to be even worse than a team singing the same tune, even if it's a bad tune.

Quandary

No

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Bit of a leap there from Ole :pac:
At 21, his career and form would have to go into overdrive to get even halfway to Ronaldo's level.

It does make you feel angry at Moyes for not giving him a shot and choosing the infinitely limp Valencia over him in almost every game.

Zaha might be a bit naive defensively but there were a lot of games this season where he could have been given a run out.

F.J.

Things are bad when you have to put forward the weather as an excuse for losing to Stoke.Not like United beat them in similar conditions at the start of December

DM_7

Any pics of other games from Clev?

Tbf the wind was ****ing mental and played a part in the generally awful passing situations coming out if the last game.

Its All Wright

Its to be very sunny in Manchester for the Fulham game, that might not suit us either

Danger781

No

F.J. wrote: »

Things are bad when you have to put forward the weather as an excuse for losing to Stoke.Not like United beat them in similar conditions at the start of December

Nobody here is putting the blame solely on the weather. However there is absolutely nobody out there that can tell me it didn't have a negative effect on the game as a whole.

Nalz

No

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

I particularly disliked the reaction that guy got when he made a post about who to bring in and who to sell on. He must have spent a decent amount of time thinking actively about solutions to the squad, granted his figures were a bit ambitious, but there was a very snobby response that would put people of posting in here.

Are you on about the football manager looking one? Cas to be fair it did look very FM'ish and over the top

scudzilla

No

Danger781 wrote: »

Nobody here is putting the blame solely on the weather. However there is absolutely nobody out there that can tell me it didn't have a negative effect on the game as a whole.

Of course it had a negative effect, but it was the same for both teams was it not?

Danger781

No

Trilla wrote: »

Are you on about the football manager looking one? Cas to be fair it did look very FM'ish and over the top

Well it's not like he made up the figures off the top of his head. Took the value off a reputable site. What more can a guy do?

Danger781

No

scudzilla wrote: »

Of course it had a negative effect, but it was the same for both teams was it not?

Stoke would be more adapted the conditions. Not to say it's like playing in the Antarctic, but they play there weekly. It's like how the Japanese play in horribly humid conditions and don't seem to be affected by it.

Nalz

No

Danger781 wrote: »

Well it's not like he made up the figures off the top of his head. Took the value off a reputable site. What more can a guy do?

Sorry genuinely didn't know that, must have missed it...but I have to ask what is this site and what makes this sites valuation of this vast list of players so reputable/accurate?

Danger781

No

Trilla wrote: »

Sorry genuinely didn't know that, must have missed it...but I have to ask what is this site and what makes this sites valuation of this vast list of players so reputable/accurate?

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/

Not saying the values are accurate, just they come from somewhere reputable.

Lord TSC

No

Regardless of reputable or not, it's crazy to think we'll get more than 10m for the likes of Nani, who hasn't played consistently (on multiple levels) for a few years now, and who plays for a team that wants rid of him...

Danger781

No

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Regardless of reputable or not, it's crazy to think we'll get more than 10m for the likes of Nani, who hasn't played consistently (on multiple levels) for a few years now, and who plays for a team that wants rid of him...

The 5 year contract comes into play..

Lord TSC

No

Danger781 wrote: »

The 5 year contract comes into play..

That means he won't go for free. But I'd still be shocked if we got anything more than 10m for him.

Rayne Wooney

Cleverley last league start, 2-1 loss to Spurs on New Year's Day



Almost a mirror of the Stoke game



City midfield in their last league game, 5-1 win at Spurs

Yaya


Fernandinho


Now they're just passing stats.

Their movement and ball carrying is insane. IMO if we had two players like that we would be challenging for the league. I'm not singling out Clevs, Carrick has been shocking, Fellaini injured and Fletcher just back.

TheDoc

Kroos sat on the bench as an unused substitute last night as Thiago started again.

Pep obviously sees Thiago as his main CM longterm. Never in a million years would contemplate Kroos playing second fiddle to anyone.

Looked plenty annoyed last night as well at times on the bench.

Obviously it would seem we Didnt really do anything on Kroos this window.

If it keeps up...should go balls to the wall for him in the summer. Be telling in the next 3-4 weeks. If Kroos on the bench plenty a sign he's outbound and would be a major signing for us.

And to be honest further lementing my opinion of Pep when it comes to certain aspects of the managerial world ( that I'd be absolutely slaughtered for airing out loud)

Saucy McKetchup

No

What site are them passing stats from, be interesting to see some of the other stats

Danger781

No

Saucy McKetchup wrote: »

What site are them passing stats from, be interesting to see some of the other stats

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/statszone

Danger781

No

Thought this was one was fun.



5 out of 34 attempted crosses were successful.

The_Kew_Tour

No

The crossing at the weekend was brutal. sadly 2 of the successful crosses fell to Danny Welbeck too.

DM_7

Bayern wouldn't sell Kroos in January even if United (or another team) put in a big bid. While Thiago is preferred they will still need him to win the Champs league. Especially when Thiago is coming off injuries.

He might force something in the summer.

J. Marston

No

Danger781 wrote: »

Thought this was one was fun.



5 out of 34 attempted crosses were successful.

So many red lines.

It's almost....hypnotic.

IamtheWalrus

Andow says all players want out.

Mikeyt086

No

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

Andow says all players want out.

No, he didn't.

First of all, he said the players who have been there 7 or 8 years may want a change of scenery. It was a sensationalist headline, but I doubt you even read the headline as your post was twice as sensationalist as said headline, so I really don't know what you were at with that post.

Danger781

No

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

Andow says all players want out.

We're gonna wake up some weekend and find we no longer have any players!!

Just moyes in his gear in goal.

DM_7

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

No, he didn't.

First of all, he said the players who have been there 7 or 8 years may want a change of scenery. It was a sensationalist headline, but I doubt you even read the headline as your post was twice as sensationalist as said headline, so I really don't know what you were at with that post.

Just jumping on the bandwagon :-p

Maximus Alexander

Danger781 wrote: »

We're gonna wake up some weekend and find we no longer have any players!!

Just moyes in his gear in goal.

I... actually think I'd pay to see that.

Saucy McKetchup

No

Anderson a bit bitter maybe?

Maximus Alexander

Saucy McKetchup wrote: »

Anderson a bit bitter maybe?

Maybe, maybe not. But what he actually said doesn't really tell us that.

Anderson wrote:

I am sure that lots of players want out, especially people like myself and Nani, who have been in Manchester for seven or eight years.

Manchester United is a huge club, a club that does everything for its players, but sometimes a footballer wants to leave just to experience a different way to play football and to learn something as well.

Playing in Manchester was great, it is a prestigious club with a lot of history.

But I was there for seven or eight years and I want to show Fiorentina my quality and fight for a spot in the starting line-up. I thank all Manchester United fans for their love, but I'm here to stay.

Translation: "Some players like Nani and I have been at the club a long time and aren't getting any games. We're not in Moyes' plans, in the summer there will be a clear out and we won't necessarily be sad about that since we want to play football. I'm at Fiorentina now, so I'm going to make it clear that I want to stay here in the hope that they will make the deal permanent in the summer."

Reading the quotes instead of the sensationalist headlines is worthwhile.

Your Airbag

DM-ICE wrote: »

Any pics of other games from Clev?

Tbf the wind was ****ing mental and played a part in the generally awful passing situations coming out if the last game.

Yes but its time to stop only focusing on Clev as our entire MF is sub par.

Clevs against Stoke again, his most forward passes all fail



Clevs against Spurs



A lot of them wide, backwards and deep.

Some might think that its a bit harsh that Clev always seems to get so much stick but when you consider that he is partnering a holding player like Carrick, it means attacks through the centre become almost non-existent. Its unforgiveable imo.

Here is Carricks 1st half passing from the Stoke game



This is also poor but Carrick is out of form and he is supposed to the holding player in the midfield double pivot and most of his passes are in his own half where as a lot of Clevs or about 50% are in the opposition half. Carrick is in decline, or has been at least this season, like so many of our players. Whether they have taken the foot off the pedal after so many years under Fergie and are too relaxed under Moyes is anyones guess but its very bad for our MF when Carrick is not playing well, we now have essentially no creativity.

If our MF wasn't bad enough the last thing we need is a poor Carrick to boot.

Here is Rooneys second half




Rooney was the most positive of all three but not by much and he is a forward not a MF. That gives us a clearer and grimmer picture of our MF.

We have no ability to push through the middle and create, none what so ever.

Here is Mata's game



From this we can see he had a somewhat free role rather than that of a typical winger or the pure "wide" style a lot of people think Moyes is only capable of. Mata's most direct forward pass lead to a goal. We essentially need a player with this ability plus a box to box engine and the ability to push from further back.

I am still a little torn to whether this is Moyes style, when I say 'style' I mean in the sense of this being how Moyes wants us to play with the alternative being him feeling this is what he can do with whats at his disposal and him seeing us as so poor in the middle he dare not play there.

The evidence against Moyes is that Carrick had the most forward passes in Europe last season or maybe it was the season before. Is this is Carricks age and injuries catching up on him or Moyes instructing him to play mainly wide? I don't know.

The evidence for Moyes is that he allowed Mata to be free roaming and not be a typical winger to stay wide and pick up the ball, he wanted him to cut inside. Everton under Moyes were never this wide or this rigid. Moyes was giving time to build an Everton squad over years to his liking and got them playing well with a modest budget, he doesn't have 'his' own UTD team yet. He bought one MF who has been injured and I believe he can't get the players he wanted in January and is willing to wait until summer rather than buy stop gaps.

In Clevs defense UTD have always been a wide team so there is a need to recycle possession by simply being an a simple short passing option for a player by showing for it and then giving it wide

Take on board what Fletch has to say about being a UTD MF player at UTD

“I think we still have creativity in midfield and certainly in the wider areas. Michael Carrick and I, we can create and so can others like Tom Cleverley and Anderson.


“But we have so many other jobs to do in the middle of the park. Because we have so many attacking players in wide areas and forward areas, we have different roles in the middle of the field.


“We have to defend. We have to provide back-up. We have to cover wide. We have to fill in for centre-halves who have been pulled out of position. We have to make sacrifice runs forward to make space. There is more to playing in the centre of midfield for Manchester United than solely creating.


“You couldn’t just play in there and not do the other duties as well. We’d suffer as a team if we didn’t do all those other things.

So you can recognise the need in any team to recycle the ball and get it wide

Now have a look at other MF players. Here is Busquets, who is the holding MF player at Barca

against Valencia



against Malaga



A good balance of wide and forward passing and a lot in the opposition half.

In his last game Thiago set a record for the most touches of the ball (181) in one game.



These are slightly harsh to compare against not only Clev but our entire MF as it the Guardiola system but you can these player are fearless. Busqutes and Thiago will get so many passes in the opposition half because they will take on players and dribble past them and take risks. We have no players to do this.

Lets take another EPL MF player against us. Namely Ramires of Chelsea



About 16 of his 21 passes made it but 14 or so were forward and 7 were in the opposition half, one of which lead to a chance. Again you need to run and beat players, Clev does not. He plays under a cloak of fear and would rather pas it back then risk the run or forward pass.

I have said Carrick is our best MF the past few seasons but given the competition its not big praise. This leads to Carricks entire worth being overated. He is not good enough for the top european or EPL squads.

People have been asking to see this forward set up a lot lately

---

Carrick/Fletch---Fellaini

---

--Januzaj

---

Rooney

---

Mata

---

---

RVP

---

I'm not sure we will see this until Evra is replaced given his form. You need Young or even Val in there for cover on the other side given our wings backs form. Raf could do with some competition also imo.

Moyes tired in the summer for Coentrao and bid for Shaw this Jan so he recognises this weakness. Madrid got no cover for Coentrao and wouldn't sell so he tried for Shaw but was turned down. Its my belief he wants the width from two hard working wingbacks in both offence and defensive and the wide men of Mata and Januzaj to cut in with Rooney in the hole and two DMF that can play, giving us a solid five players that can interact centrally and supply a lone man of RVP and the width if needed come from the defenders.

Sorry for the long windedness but I couldn't stop once I started.

Bleating Lamb

Hate to say it but Chelsea doing us a favour.

Headshot

No

Right lads we're back in the title hunt lol

Lord TSC

No

Jose will win the title now, just to show us what we could have had :P

ician

No

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

Hate to say it but Chelsea doing us a favour.

How?

J. Marston

No

Guess we're officially a laughing stock.

Danger781

No

J. Marston wrote: »

Guess we're officially a laughing stock.

That's not cool.

MagicMarker

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

Hate to say it but Chelsea doing us a favour.

Erm..... What?

Whatsisname

No

J. Marston wrote: »

Guess we're officially a laughing stock.

Well, thats a bit depressing..