Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod Warning: Post #7871

Mitch Connor

No

bren2001 wrote: »

The question was would they be mentioned in the discussion of best in their position. Not, are they the best?

All 4 players mentioned would feature in a discussion of best in the world.

I don't think he is disagreeing - saying beyond that, which i took to mean players, we don't have players that would feature in top players discussion.

Pro. F

No

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Yeah, they do.

City have Fernandino and Yaya CM, and are looking to sign Fernando. Top CM player for back up to their top CMs.

Look at the Munich signings over the last few years - constantly adding top players to their squad, so they have more than one top player per position.

Some United aren't players could barely be called good anymore, then need to be replaced, by very talented players.

The fact that City and Bayern are following a particular course of action does not prove that it's the best course to follow.

tallaghtmick

No

Pro. F wrote: »

The difference between Chelsea, City and United is the quality of the managers, not the quality of player sitting on their benches.

Yeh they have quality managers who understand tactics and have plan B's we have er Moyes :pac:

I am pie

Mitch Connor wrote: »

DDG, Mata. On top form Rooney and RVP too.

Thats simply not true, in fact it's delusional. We could be here all day naming better players in their positions.

Mata isn't an automatic starter for his national side, never mind best in the world. RVP had a great season last year, but he is nowhere near the level of Messi, Ronaldo and that nutty Swede who play in his position. I don't even think he is at Suarez' level. Chelsea have that young Belgian lad who is playing at a level above Mata. I'd have Aguero above both RVP and Rooney too, Eden Hazard too.

DDG is again not even guaranteed to start for his country. I'd take a few keepers in the premier league ahead of him, potential but nowherre near best in the world.

The answer to the original question is no. I thought it was only the English who bought into the rooney myth. Never plays out on the big stage....

Resounding no.

Mitch Connor

No

I am pie wrote: »

Thats simply not true, in fact it's delusional. We could be here all day naming better players in their positions.

Mata isn't an automatic starter for his national side, never mind best in the world. RVP had a great season last year, but he is nowhere near the level of Messi, Ronaldo and that nutty Swede who play in his position. I don't even think he is at Suarez' level. Chelsea have that young Belgian lad who is playing at a level above Mata. I'd have Aguero above both RVP and Rooney too, Eden Hazard too.

DDG is again not even guaranteed to start for his country. I'd take a few keepers in the premier league ahead of him, potential but nowherre near best in the world.

The answer to the original question is no. I thought it was only the English who bought into the rooney myth. Never plays out on the big stage....

Resounding no.

I simply disagree with you. Will leave it there.

Nalz

No

bren2001 wrote: »

The question was would they be mentioned in the discussion of best in their position. Not, are they the best?

All 4 players mentioned would feature in a discussion of best in the world.

yeah.....and my answer would be no for all and that they'd each be in their respective top ten

Pro. F

Pro. F wrote: »

You said the quality of players on their benches was the reason that City and Chelsea are where they are. That is ridiculous.

Yes that's exactly what I said. There squads are stronger than ours and they have the ability to replace quaility on the field with quality on the bench. The end.

Pro. F

No

Mitch Connor wrote: »

my thoughts: First 11 wins you games, a squad wins you trophies. Having a quality bench will play a large part in the success of a club, as they deal with injuries/loss of form through the season.

I agree. Having the likes of Hernandez or Jones on your bench is more than good enough. Any better than that and you're getting to the level of players who won't be willing to sit on the bench and that will cause disruption and wasted money in the long run.

I am pie

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I simply disagree with you. Will leave it there.

Right, assume you disagree with the Spanish manager too?...he doesnt start the spaniards.

Also, best player in the world? Rooney? Why has he never shown up in a champs league or world cup? Scoring goals in the prem doesn't cut it. Same q for RVP. One good season for utd.

Really wide of the mark.

RasTa

No

I am pie wrote: »

Right, assume you disagree with the Spanish manager too?...he doesnt start the spaniards.

Also, best player in the world? Rooney? Why has he never shown up in a champs league or world cup? Scoring goals in the prem doesn't cut it. Same q for RVP. One good season for utd.

Really wide of the mark.

The Spanish keeper doesn't even start for his club. Yes RVP has only being at United one season.

Messi never shows up in the world cup, guess he is not world class too.

I am pie

Ballon D'or voting.

Any of them lads feature?

Nope.

Nalz

No

I am pie wrote: »

Also, best player in the world? Rooney? Why has he never shown up in a champs league

That's bullshít tbf

TheDoc

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Here's a question for you lads: Is there even one player at United who would be mentioned in a discussion about the best in the world in their position?

I don't think so, and that's just not right.

But to be fair, there was a large portion of time, and to be fair its still there, where players in the Premier league werent been rated on equal footing as those elsewhere.

I don't think there has been a time where our team was littered with world class players, that were CONSIDERED world class by our peers around Europe. I know I sit with the "Schmeichel was the best of his era" mantra, but you can get plenty of arguement for Oliver Kahn and Buffon to name just two.
I think it's vindicated by the lack of EPL winners of Balon dor's and inclusions in world elevens and stuff. There is this really weird, nearly childish vengeant attitude towards the English league from peers around Europe.

I don't remember a time when our team was littered with what was universally renowed as world class, definitly not at the time. **** it took for Paul Scholes to come to the end of his career before he got some REALLY proper recognition around Europe for the type of player he was.

But I would agree on the principle that as one of the biggest clubs in the world, we should always, ALWAYS, be housing world class talent. In the squad at the moment I would probably consitute

David De Gea
Nemanja Vidic
Juan Mata
Robin Van Persie
Wayne Rooney

As world class. Vidic I'm not so sure about anymore. You'd get alot of debate about Rooney aswell. NEver reached the heights he should have, too many barren spells. But when on song, has to be considered world class.

That's not dire, but I agree it could be more. World class can be a bit of an opinionated term, you'd assume that it's easy to define world class players, but when you hear some pundits, commentators and the likes, sometimes it can loose it's meaning. It's also sometimes argued over how to measure it, be it current form, "on form" etc. Technically anyone has the potential to be world class since there it's impossible to measure potential and what their real top form is, but that's being Sheldon about it.

bren2001

I am pie wrote: »

Ballon D'or voting.

Any of them lads feature?

Nope.

RVP was on the shortlist......

Maximus Alexander

Mitch Connor wrote: »

DDG, Mata. On top form Rooney and RVP too.

DDG I think will be, but not yet. Mata... maybe. Rooney I've never agreed with, great player but I've never really bought into him being as amazing as his reputation would suggest, that's an argument I may lose. RVP I'll give you - when he's performing.

But I grew up watching United with players like Keane, Scholes, Beckham, Giggs in his prime to name but a couple. United was a team you could look at to see some of the world's best talent, and I just don't think that's the case anymore.

Sure there are players in the squad who are up there, top 10 maybe, but would you really get into a debate about them being the best in their positions? Would you have that argument about Rooney? Is he arguably the best striker / number 10 in the world?

niallo27 wrote: »

Do Chelsea or arsenal have either.

Maybe not, Ozil for Arsenal possibly? Certainly Ashley Cole until recently for Chelsea. But to be honest, I don't much care about them. :P

I am pie

RasTa wrote: »

The Spanish keeper doesn't even start for his club. Yes RVP has only being at United one season.

Messi never shows up in the world cup, guess he is not world class too.

Actually that's not true. He had a better world cup last year than Rooney or RVP have ever had performance wise.

I notice you didnt mention the other part of that argument, performing in champs league finals....cause, you know...that would have made your argument null.and.void.

Or do you really believe that RvP or Rooney are better than:

Messi, Ronaldo, the mad Swede, ...even Suarez? Are they better than Falcao, are the better than Aguero, not to even start with the germans.

honestly, last year maybe RVP gets into a top 10, but top 5..i cant see it. I wonder would you find a non-utd fan making that claim.


They just do not figure in worlds best conversations.

Again, ballon d'or voting.....

TheDoc

I am pie wrote: »

Thats simply not true, in fact it's delusional. We could be here all day naming better players in their positions.

Mata isn't an automatic starter for his national side, never mind best in the world. RVP had a great season last year, but he is nowhere near the level of Messi, Ronaldo and that nutty Swede who play in his position. I don't even think he is at Suarez' level. Chelsea have that young Belgian lad who is playing at a level above Mata. I'd have Aguero above both RVP and Rooney too, Eden Hazard too.

DDG is again not even guaranteed to start for his country. I'd take a few keepers in the premier league ahead of him, potential but nowherre near best in the world.

The answer to the original question is no. I thought it was only the English who bought into the rooney myth. Never plays out on the big stage....

Resounding no.

Being "World Class" doesn't constitute "Being picked in world best XI". I think this illustrates my point, to many people have different defining factors for what would be considered world class.

Sergio Ramos was picked in the World XI.....

I define World Class as being someone who can have a massive positive influence on the game regardless of the league they play in, and to some extent the team they play in. They have obvious talent and ability that set's them above the rest.

The fact Mata can't play for Spain, is because he has Xavi and Iniesta in front of him. World Class players

DDG can't get in because he has two absolute titan veterans in front of him.

Just because they cannot get into their national side, is not degrading mark on their ability, it's just someone being even better in there place again.

As an example, I wouldn't constitute Daniel Sturridge as World Class, despite the fact he has one of the best scoring records in Europe right now. I think Luiz Suarez has "become" World Class, because he has kept up the form of last year.

It's another one of those subjective terms, but I think it's easier to define then being a "Top, top, top player"

I am pie

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

DDG I think will be, but not yet. Mata... maybe. Rooney I've never agreed with, great player but I've never really bought into him being as amazing as his reputation would suggest, that's an argument I may lose. RVP I'll give you - when he's performing.

But I grew up watching United with players like Keane, Scholes, Beckham, Giggs in his prime to name but a couple. United was a team you could look at to see some of the world's best talent, and I just don't think that's the case anymore.

Sure there are players in the squad who are up there, top 10 maybe, but would you really get into a debate about them being the best in their positions? Would you have that argument about Rooney? Is he arguably the best striker / number 10 in the world?



Maybe not, Ozil for Arsenal possibly? Certainly Ashley Cole until recently for Chelsea. But to be honest, I don't much care about them. :P

Eden Hazard. Better than anyone at United right now.

Rayne Wooney

I thought we'd see some change with RVP and Rooney back but it's the same old stuff, we aren't looking like progressing towards any sort of good football and that's the problem. Fergie left the team in a bad way but it still should have been at least 4th this season not sitting in 7th for most of it.

Being fair to Moyes, the football under Fergie the last few seasons was fairly poor but we won titles and cups, Moyes is the manager now and should have changed it.

If you watched Arsenal Ozil was playing on the left, Liverpool Suarez was playing on the left, same as Mata at United but the difference in tactics is shocking. It's fitting the players to the Stone Age system rather than fitting the systems to the players.

I'm at the point where I don't even care about 3 points at Palace, if the tactics are the same he should be sacked.

I am pie

TheDoc wrote: »

Being "World Class" doesn't constitute "Being picked in world best XI". I think this illustrates my point, to many people have different defining factors for what would be considered world class.

Sergio Ramos was picked in the World XI.....

I define World Class as being someone who can have a massive positive influence on the game regardless of the league they play in, and to some extent the team they play in. They have obvious talent and ability that set's them above the rest.

The fact Mata can't play for Spain, is because he has Xavi and Iniesta in front of him. World Class players

DDG can't get in because he has two absolute titan veterans in front of him.

Just because they cannot get into their national side, is not degrading mark on their ability, it's just someone being even better in there place again.

As an example, I wouldn't constitute Daniel Sturridge as World Class, despite the fact he has one of the best scoring records in Europe right now. I think Luiz Suarez has "become" World Class, because he has kept up the form of last year.

It's another one of those subjective terms, but I think it's easier to define then being a "Top, top, top player"

Semantics, it's simpler than that. The claim was made that they would figure in worlds best in their position.

You cannot be the worlds best if you are not in your nations best team! Mata has more than just Xavi and Iniesta in front of him, I´ve seen Silva start ahead of him.

Rooney just isnt in the discussion outside man u and england fans. RVP, if he hadnt underperformed at Arsenal for so long, maybe if he went to Utd earlier, who knows...but he has had one season and he is too old.

brinty

ericzeking wrote: »

Alot of guys think Young and Valencia will be moved on based on the thinking that we as fans don't think they are good enough but based on the amount they have played I'd say both will be around for a while yet.

Thats what scares me is that they'll be kept around cos others will be going before them and we'll need numbers in the sqaud and won't get the required replacements in to replace them and improve on them

TheDoc

I am pie wrote: »

Again, ballon d'or voting.....

Sorry but the fact you keep mentioning it is shooting your own argument in the foot.

The Ballon D'or has long became a bit of a joke, turning into a popularity contest, with players, captains and managers voting for their best player coming from their own team, or country. Basically showing favouritism, and trying not to upset the applecart.

The German national coach was very vocal in saying he would not be voting in this years awards, as he found the whole thing to be a popularity contest, and he wouldn't risk upsetting any of his players over a stupid award. And I agree.

The Ballon D'or typically comes out with the winner being justified, but the voting beneath it is pretty rubbish. You can freely download the publicly available voting and see for yourself how reliable it is.

Coaches, journalists and captains from absolute non football countries, countries I'd never even heard of, voting, and other high profile players, managers and journalists voting for people of their team and the likes.

Getting the vibe your in here for a rise to be honest and I shouldn't even be bothering, hopefully not the case.

RasTa

No

I am pie wrote: »

Actually that's not true. He had a better world cup last year than Rooney or RVP have ever had performance wise.

I notice you didnt mention the other part of that argument, performing in champs league finals....cause, you know...that would have made your argument null.and.void.

Or do you really believe that RvP or Rooney are better than:

Messi, Ronaldo, the mad Swede, ...even Suarez? Are they better than Falcao, are the better than Aguero, not to even start with the germans.

honestly, last year maybe RVP gets into a top 10, but top 5..i cant see it. I wonder would you find a non-utd fan making that claim.


They just do not figure in worlds best conversations.

Again, ballon d'or voting.....

God you're not very intelligent.

RVP was on the shortlist, same as Suarez

Anyone who thinks Rooney hasn't performed in the CL hasn't a clue what they are talking about, funny nobody was claiming this last season.

Suarez hasn't even played in the CL for how many years now?

TheDoc

I am pie wrote: »

Semantics, it's simpler than that. The claim was made that they would figure in worlds best in their position.
.

Are you sure the claim wasn't "being World Class"

Although I'd state to you again, Sergio Ramos was selected along with Dani Alves in the World Best XI after having pretty average to poor seasons. I'm to take from that they are the best CB and LB in the world?

Nalz

No

RasTa wrote: »

Anyone who thinks Rooney hasn't performed in the CL hasn't a clue what they are talking about, funny nobody was claiming this last season.

Well said. Rooney has won many games on his on for United in the CL, important games against Milan and Chelsea spring to mind.

Pro. F

No

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Yes that's exactly what I said. There squads are stronger than ours and they have the ability to replace quaility on the field with quality on the bench. The end.

City's bench in their last game: Dzeko, Kolarov, Pantilimon, Rodwell, Lescott, Richards, Lopes.

Chelsea's: Salah, Mikel, Torres, Schurrle, Cole, Lampard, Schwarzer.

United's: Young, Januzaj, Ferdinand, Buttner, Lindegaard, Hernandez, Fellaini.

I don't think you have actually been paying attention to who sits on the bench for these squads you are so awed by.

Pro. F

No

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Here's a question for you lads: Is there even one player at United who would be mentioned in a discussion about the best in the world in their position?

I don't think so, and that's just not right.

This question has so little relevance in a team sport. There are very few teams who can claim to have the best players in the world in any one position. And of those teams, a good proportion are clearly not the best teams in the world any way.

This type of discussion always leads to idiotic arguments like "who is the best out of RvP, Rooney, Suarez and Aguero?" The intelligent response, which is rarely invoked, is that they are all more than good enough to be a key part of a PL/CL winning team. That's all that matters.

Courtesy Flush

No

Would love to see whats going on at board level at United now. Surely questions are being asked about Moyes. But hes Fergies man so they wont sack him? Are they really going to give Moyes the transfer money in the summer and pray he doesnt screw up ?

Headshot

No

Fergies stubbornness will be utds downfall again

onemorechance

Courtesy Flush wrote: »

Would love to see whats going on at board level at United now. Surely questions are being asked about Moyes. But hes Fergies man so they wont sack him? Are they really going to give Moyes the transfer money in the summer and pray he doesnt screw up ?

They won't sack him. They will give Moyes the transfer money in summer. Woodward spoke to shareholders this week if you are interested.

Mongo

Does anyone else, bar me, think the major problem isn't with our squad (which admittedly could do with strengthening) but with the way we are playing? Every single attack goes wide, what's the point on having Mata, Kagawa, Rooney and RVP if the strategy is for Carrick or Cleverley or whoever to get it out wide and cross it in? No interplay in the last 3rd, no quick passing etc. The players are there but there's no chance for them to try it.

I for one would like to see a game with Rooney, Mata and Kagawa behind RVP.

Anyone??

Maximus Alexander

Pro. F wrote: »

This question has so little relevance in a team sport. There are very few teams who can claim to have the best players in the world in any one position. And of those teams, a good proportion are clearly not the best teams in the world any way.

This type of discussion always leads to idiotic arguments like "who is the best out of RvP, Rooney, Suarez and Aguero?" The intelligent response, which is rarely invoked, is that they are all more than good enough to a key part of a Pl/CL winning team. That's all that matters.

Of course it has relevance. There is a reason why Barcelona will spend all the money in the world to develop a player like Messi and then keep him at the club, or why Real Madrid will go out and spend £80 million on Ronaldo instead of settling for someone who is 'good enough'.

Carrick played a key part in winning the league last season, but there's a world of difference between having a squad full of players of his standard and having one studded with the best in the world like United did 10-15 years ago.

Apart from Rooney and RVP, the squad isn't exactly brimming with talent that competitors would be drooling over, and that to me is very telling.

TheDoc

Headshot wrote: »

Fergies stubbornness will be utds downfall again

What do you mean again?

You could flip that around and say that stubbornness was part of the reason we got where we are....

The_Kew_Tour

No

Mongo wrote: »

Does anyone else, bar me, think the major problem isn't with our squad (which admittedly could do with strengthening) but with the way we are playing? Every single attack goes wide, what's the point on having Mata, Kagawa, Rooney and RVP if the strategy is for Carrick or Cleverley or whoever to get it out wide and cross it in? No interplay in the last 3rd, no quick passing etc. The players are there but there's no chance for them to try it.

I for one would like to see a game with Rooney, Mata and Kagawa behind RVP.

Anyone??

Yep. We dont have huge strength in CM as you can see by Cleverly getting brushed aside numerous times last night, but at same time we should be 10 times better then that.

We did not look like we were going to score once last night bar mistakes from Arsenal defense or moment of Magic from Rooney.

Lord TSC

No

People on both sides keep bringing up Fergie and his current role in Moyes keeping his job.

Did I miss him stating publicly how he feels about Moyes? Of course not, he wouldn't do such a thing. And yet everyone seems to have the opinion that "Fergie won't let him be sacked", or "Fergie's stubbornness will keep him in the job". Even the "Fergie said stick behind him" line is something said nearly a year ago, long before the reality of the situation came to terms.

I could equally offer the point that Fergie will be insisting Moyes goes soon to protect the legacy of a club he built....there's as much evidence to back up my claim...

Leftist

No

TheDoc wrote: »

What do you mean again?

You could flip that around and say that stubbornness was part of the reason we got where we are....

as a manager yes. his stubborness was a strength.

in his position now, with his judgement that moyes is the man for the job, it is exceptionally counter productive.

I think we can all agree he was one of the greatest managers, but what I don't get is how people automatically think that makes him good at selecting other managers.

He suggested Alex McLeish to Randy Lerner.

His speech last year about getting behind the new man was well intended but now puts him in a position where he will look stupid if he decides to back moyes sacking. Even over the course of a number of years to come.

and he will have to be on board. Who else football wise is in charge? an accountant from P&G? It's SAF and Bobby.

We're stuck with moyes because of SAF.

TheDoc

Leftist wrote: »

as a manager yes. his stubborness was a strength.

in his position now, with his judgement that moyes is the man for the job, it is exceptionally counter productive.

I think we can all agree he was one of the greatest managers, but what I don't get is how people automatically think that makes him good at selecting other managers.

He suggested Alex McLeish to Randy Lerner.

His speech last year about getting behind the new man was well intended but now puts him in a position where he will look stupid if he decides to back moyes sacking. Even over the course of a number of years to come.

and he will have to be on board. Who else football wise is in charge? an accountant from P&G? It's SAF and Bobby.

We're stuck with moyes because of SAF.

You know the board is a number of people, all who contain one vote.

Sir Alex isn't the final say, or only say in the club. The club is owned and run by a board, all of whom have equal vote.

I still can't even find confirmation Sir Alex was made a voting executive, I'm pretty sure he is not. Ergo, if the board decide to call it a day, he can't do **** all about it.

Does anyone have confirmation of Fergusons role at present, be good to know what his executive powers are. Football clubs are mental, but it would be unusual for ANY board to have a voting member who hadn't got a financial stake invested in the club, regardless of the fact he essentially made the club into what it is.

I think people are making a lot of assumptions about "Fergie backs Moyes, so hes untouchable" without a shred of proof from any quarter.

If push came to shove, Moyes could be sacked, and Ferguson could do nothing about it.

Pro. F

No

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Of course it has relevance. There is a reason why Barcelona will spend all the money in the world to develop a player like Messi and then keep him at the club, or why Real Madrid will go out and spend £80 million on Ronaldo instead of settling for someone who is 'good enough'.

Madrid are the text book example of how possession of superstar players is not closely related to success. They would have kept you very happy with your metric of "how many of the best players in the world do we have?" over the last ten years, yet their success relative to spending has been woeful.

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Carrick played a key part in winning the league last season, but there's a world of difference between having a squad full of players of his standard and having one studded with the best in the world like United did 10-15 years ago.

We don't have a squad full of players of Carrick's standard. RvP, Rooney, Mata and DDG are much better players than Carrick.

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Apart from Rooney and RVP, the squad isn't exactly brimming with talent that competitors would be drooling over, and that to me is very telling.

That is just the most pointless issue to take with a squad that has ever been dreamed up.

Maximus Alexander

Pro. F wrote: »

That is just the most pointless issue to take with a squad that has ever been dreamed up.

It's really not. A lack of talent is a pretty rational issue to have with a squad.

Pro. F

No

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

It's really not. A lack of talent is a pretty rational issue to have with a squad.

You decided that we have a lack of talent after you removed two of our best players!

Will I Amnt

No

This squad should be top 4 at a canter tbh. No ifs, buts or maybes.

TheDoc

Pro. F wrote: »

That is just the most pointless issue to take with a squad that has ever been dreamed up.

No it's not.
And I can't believe you'd disregard his point with such blasé

Look at Hazard at present. Defenders look visibly flustered when hes running at them. He's not doing anything, but they are totally confused as how to handle him.
It's the same with Messi, Ronaldo, all those players of class and talent.

Their reputation proceeds them, and how a defender is going to handle them. You hear about it being spoken CONSTANTLY by ex-pros, how they hated playing this person or that person.

I can ever remember when I played football, some players I've be worried about cause I knew they were fast or tricky or excellent, others I'd be worried about because they were strong and I was in for a physical game. There was no guarantees it was going to happen, but from a previous encounter or reference, a reputation builds.

I can assure you nobody in world football feels any sort of concern or fear playing against Tom Cleverly or Michael Carrick. Yet plenty would have had issue with Roy Keane and Paul Scholes.

Maximus Alexander

Pro. F wrote: »

You decided that we have a lack of talent after you removed two of our best players!

When removing two players from a squad of 25+ leaves you with a dearth of talent, I'd say it's a fair criticism to say that that squad lacks talent.

Pro. F

No

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

When removing two players from a squad of 25+ leaves you with a dearth of talent, I'd say it's a fair criticism to say that that squad lacks talent.

You removed two of the best players in a discussion about clubs' best players, not entire squad strength.

Pro. F

No

TheDoc wrote: »

No it's not.
And I can't believe you'd disregard his point with such blasé

Look at Hazard at present. Defenders look visibly flustered when hes running at them. He's not doing anything, but they are totally confused as how to handle him.
It's the same with Messi, Ronaldo, all those players of class and talent.

Their reputation proceeds them, and how a defender is going to handle them. You hear about it being spoken CONSTANTLY by ex-pros, how they hated playing this person or that person.

I can ever remember when I played football, some players I've be worried about cause I knew they were fast or tricky or excellent, others I'd be worried about because they were strong and I was in for a physical game. There was no guarantees it was going to happen, but from a previous encounter or reference, a reputation builds.

I can assure you nobody in world football feels any sort of concern or fear playing against Tom Cleverly or Michael Carrick. Yet plenty would have had issue with Roy Keane and Paul Scholes.

Matic and David Luiz. Dimecheles and Hart.

The_Kew_Tour

No

Will I Amnt wrote: »

This squad should be top 4 at a canter tbh. No ifs, buts or maybes.

But.........

we have been unlucky;)

and the weather at Stoke was against us;)

Maximus Alexander

Pro. F wrote: »

You removed two of the best players in a discussion about clubs' best players, not entire squad strength.

Ah, I see what's happening here: We're both having different discussions.

Pro. F

No

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Ah, I see what's happening here: We're both having different discussions.

If you are talking about overall squad quality there is little to worry about either. At worst we are close behind Chelsea and City.

The_Kew_Tour

No

You put 2 top quality CM's and LB back into our side last night and its as good as any around.

Kerrydude1981

No

Had to listen to the game last via the wireless,dodgy reception but match sounded dire.

Collymore couldn't figure out why Mata was been played on the left.