Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod Warning: Post #7871

TheTownie

No

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

You put 2 top quality CM's and LB back into our side last night plus a top quality manager at the helm and its as good as any around.

FYP.

Blatter

No

If the club are not thinking about replacing Moyes now or at the end of the season, then IMO they are not doing so out of a distorted view of the club's historical values. The club does pride itself on giving managers time and expressing great patience in line with having a long term vision rather than demanding instant success.

These are great values to have and is absolutely the right way to run a self sustainable football club. However there is one very important condition for this strategy to be successful - the right manager has to be in charge.

During his time at the club he has:

- Displayed a lack of self confidence in himself through constant statements such as 'we hope we can turn it around', 'we hope to put a run together' etc. If he can't be fully confident in himself, then how can the players or fans be fully confident in him? He is full of doubt and of course that sort of negativity will rub off on the players.

- Displayed a lack of man management skills. There are very few players that have come out and vocally expressed their backing of Moyes, that says a lot as to how they feel about the situation. It's blatantly obvious that they don't have faith in him. Their negative body language and actions on the pitch tells you a lot too of course. Ironically enough Rooney is one of the few to come out and vocally support him, a player I feel Moyes has over indulged this season. He has regularly singled him out for praise in the press, apparently offered him a £300k/week contract and there's been talks of a plan to make him captain. How would this sort of indulgence of a player who desperately wanted to leave the club in the Summer and has previously requested two transfers (one written, one vocal), make the other players feel?

- Displayed a lack of ability to manage a club that's always expected to win. His unimaginative and fundamentally negative tactics have been discussed to death so I won't go into depth on that. His ability to find solutions to problems at a big club has been found wanting. He constantly points towards fallacies like luck and the players being 'mentally soft' when trying to explain the teams poor predicament. Yes David, it's 'unlucky' that the team have been playing like a 7th place team all season and sit in 7th place. Players that have more medals than what most players can only dream of, players that won the league less than 12 months ago by 11 points are all of a sudden mentally weak. Pull the other one.

If he ends up staying and turns Utd into a top level team (even just saying that hits home how far the club has fallen under his stewardship, it was literally less than a year a go that United were a genuine force to be reckoned with!) I will hold my hands up. But I just can't envisage it happening and genuinely feel the club should remove him from his position as soon as is feasibly possible.

TheDoc

Blatter wrote: »

- Displayed a lack of man management skills. There are very few players that have come out and vocally expressed their backing of Moyes, that says a lot as to how they feel about the situation. It's blatantly obvious that they don't have faith in him. Their negative body language and actions on the pitch tells you a lot too of course. Ironically enough Rooney is one of the few to come out and vocally support him, a player I feel Moyes has over indulged this season. He has regularly singled him out for praise in the press, apparently offered him a £300k/week contract and there's been talks of a plan to make him captain. How would this sort of indulgence of a player who desperately wanted to leave the club in the Summer and has previously requested two transfers (one written, one vocal), make the other players feel?

a good post, but if I recall correctly, I remember Van Persie squashing rumours over their spat by stating some positive things about the manager.

Rooney has said on numerous times positive things. Rafael, Smalling and Jones have given him praise. Carrick and Fletcher also had positive things to say

As I said yesterday in a post. The players making the negative waves or sly comments, are the ones not getting their game likely to be out the door this summer.

I think the relevant players have said their piece, and the big hitters had positive things to say.

I think a different debate, is the club lacks an articulate leader, someone like a Keane, a Viera, that sort. Could you imagine them in a team like this? There would be a very public lashing.

Numerous times players this season have come out and said it's not the manager who's the problem, the players need to setup and be counted. For me, just falls flat when it's coming from the people it is. The likes of Smalling, Jones, I don't know, just arn't big personalities that I go " wow" to.

But there has been a good number of instances where players have said they are the problem, not the manager, and they need to sort it out. I'm not sure that is said from squads who maybe don't have faith or belief in the man at the helm.

TheTownie

No

Blatter wrote: »

If the club are not thinking about replacing Moyes now or at the end of the season, then IMO they are not doing so out of a distorted view of the club's historical values. The club does pride itself on giving managers time and expressing great patience in line with having a long term vision rather than demanding instant success.

These are great values to have and is absolutely the right way to run a self sustainable football club. However there is one very important condition for this strategy to be successful - the right manager has to be in charge.

During his time at the club he has:

- Displayed a lack of self confidence in himself through constant statements such as 'we hope we can turn it around', 'we hope to put a run together' etc. If he can't be fully confident in himself, then how can the players or fans be fully confident in him? He is full of doubt and of course that sort of negativity will rub off on the players.

- Displayed a lack of man management skills. There are very few players that have come out and vocally expressed their backing of Moyes, that says a lot as to how they feel about the situation. It's blatantly obvious that they don't have faith in him. Their negative body language and actions on the pitch tells you a lot too of course. Ironically enough Rooney is one of the few to come out and vocally support him, a player I feel Moyes has over indulged this season. He has regularly singled him out for praise in the press, apparently offered him a £300k/week contract and there's been talks of a plan to make him captain. How would this sort of indulgence of a player who desperately wanted to leave the club in the Summer and has previously requested two transfers (one written, one vocal), make the other players feel?

- Displayed a lack of ability to manage a club that's always expected to win. His unimaginative and fundamentally negative tactics have been discussed to death so I won't go into depth on that. His ability to find solutions to problems at a big club has been found wanting. He constantly points towards fallacies like luck and the players being 'mentally soft' when trying to explain the teams poor predicament. Yes David, it's 'unlucky' that the team have been playing like a 7th place team all season and sit in 7th place. Players that have more medals than what most players can only dream of, players that won the league less than 12 months ago by 11 points are all of a sudden mentally weak. Pull the other one.

If he ends up staying and turns Utd into a top level team (even just saying that hits home how far the club has fallen under his stewardship, it was literally less than a year a go that United were a genuine force to be reckoned with!) I will hold my hands up. But I just can't envisage it happening and genuinely feel the club should remove him from his position as soon as is feasibly possible.

Only way I can see him turning it around at this stage is if he brought in some top quality coaches and stop being so hands on himself.

Don't hold your breath on that happening though.

J. Marston

No

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

Had to listen to the game last via the wireless,dodgy reception but match sounded dire.

Collymore couldn't figure out why Mata was been played on the left.

Neither could the rest of the footballing world.

Lord TSC

No

So are they gone off to Dubai then?

BloodBath

No

Pro. F wrote: »

If you are talking about overall squad quality there is little to worry about either. At worst we are close behind Chelsea and City.

Sorry man. I agree with most of the things you've been posting here lately but not this.

No we're not. Maybe when we sign 5+ players in the summer but at the moment there is no competition or replacements for left or right back. No first choice CB pairing. No top quality defensive midfielders apart from an aging constantly injured Carrick and it's hard to even fit our best players into a strong cohesive team.

I'd happily swap, Nani, Valencia and Young for Hazard as well or Carrick, Fletcher and Cleverly for Toure.

Hell even the likes of Milner and Ramires would easily get into our team.

Granted Chelsea don't have great forward options and City don't have a huge selection in midfield but I'd still rate their overall squads well ahead of us.

Your Airbag

Well 4th is gone. If Liverpool drew we still had a slim chance but not now. If they do have a blip we still have City and Everton to play.

Last night we looked good defensively for a change. I'd like to see the same again for the remainder of the UCL, away from home at least.

Rooney dropping deep to make up an extra man in midfield and the team countering when we break down the opposition but we will have no Mata to help us.



As much of a long shot as it is that is the only way we will get UCL football next year. I'm already resigned to us not having any though. Its not nice but not exactly the end of the world either. We can cope financially but it would grate to see Liverpool in there so thats my other hope. I would love Everton to beat them to 4th.

I'm still willing to give Moyes time to get the players he wants in and to mould a team whether we reach 4th place or not. If gets in good players and we are still using the same tactics I will be calling for his head very early next season.

I would be the craziest thing ever though for Moyes to have made so many mistakes and displayed such one dimensional tactics but to then win the UCL in his first proper attempt. It would be the mother of all WTF's.

Pro. F

Pro. F wrote: »

City's bench in their last game: Dzeko, Kolarov, Pantilimon, Rodwell, Lescott, Richards, Lopes.

Chelsea's: Salah, Mikel, Torres, Schurrle, Cole, Lampard, Schwarzer.

United's: Young, Januzaj, Ferdinand, Buttner, Lindegaard, Hernandez, Fellaini.

I don't think you have actually been paying attention to who sits on the bench for these squads you are so awed by.

Yes both of there benches are stronger than ours.
Agree to disagree at this stage.

Blatter

No

TheDoc wrote: »

a good post, but if I recall correctly, I remember Van Persie squashing rumours over their spat by stating some positive things about the manager.

Rooney has said on numerous times positive things. Rafael, Smalling and Jones have given him praise. Carrick and Fletcher also had positive things to say

As I said yesterday in a post. The players making the negative waves or sly comments, are the ones not getting their game likely to be out the door this summer.

I think the relevant players have said their piece, and the big hitters had positive things to say.

I think a different debate, is the club lacks an articulate leader, someone like a Keane, a Viera, that sort. Could you imagine them in a team like this? There would be a very public lashing.

Numerous times players this season have come out and said it's not the manager who's the problem, the players need to setup and be counted. For me, just falls flat when it's coming from the people it is. The likes of Smalling, Jones, I don't know, just arn't big personalities that I go " wow" to.

But there has been a good number of instances where players have said they are the problem, not the manager, and they need to sort it out. I'm not sure that is said from squads who maybe don't have faith or belief in the man at the helm.

There hasn't been many occasions where a player has gave an interview/statement on the topic of his own accord and truly expressed a belief in Moyes' methods and vision. There has been support for him from certain players but it has mostly been wishy washy and IMO largely down to the players responding to questions in a way that won't potentially cause conflict and potentially isolate them. It isn't unusual to see at all.



For example, during Hodgson's reign at Liverpool, Joe Cole supported him.

Even after Hodgson was axed, Gerrard and Carragher emphasised that it was the players that left the manager down when they were questioned about it.

It is seen as a noble thing in football not to blame the manager and a lot of players adhere to that. Also, it is possible sometimes that players can blindly support the manager and not be able to truly realise that he's not good enough.

Pro. F

No

BloodBath wrote: »

Sorry man. I agree with most of the things you've been posting here lately but not this.

No we're not. Maybe when we sign 5+ players in the summer but at the moment there is no competition or replacements for left or right back. No first choice CB pairing. No top quality defensive midfielders apart from an aging constantly injured Carrick and it's hard to even fit our best players into a strong cohesive team.

I'd happily swap, Nani, Valencia and Young for Hazard as well or Carrick, Fletcher and Cleverly for Toure.

Hell even the likes of Milner and Ramires would easily get into our team.

Granted Chelsea don't have great forward options and City don't have a huge selection in midfield but I'd still rate their overall squads well ahead of us.

The only reason we don't have a first choice CB pair is because Moyes has chopped and changed far too much. There was no shortage of quality at that position this season compared to Chelsea and certainly not City.

Full-back we are weak at, but City are weak at centre-back and in goal and Chelsea are weak up front.

We're also weak in midfield, but not nearly as bad as Moyes has made it look. Carrick is not always injured. He has had an impeccable fitness record up to this season and has only had one injury this season. City's central midfield is strong, but Chelsea's is very ordinary, just like ours.

Milner would not easily get into our best team. Who is he supposed to be better than? Nani, Mata, Januzaj? Not for me. He might be more reliable than Adnan at this stage, but I wouldn't dream of swapping the two players if given the option.

Ramires would easily get into our team, true. And Hernandez would easily get into Chelsea's team. Neither fact proves much about overall squad quality.

user2011

No

:cool:

Beat that Messi :pac: :P

Quandary

No

My opinion is the same as it was at the start of the year.I suggested that given the big changes at the club, the best we would get is 3rd this season (some people scoffed at this). I would have been quite happy with 3rd. I would have taken 4th but no lower. I've supported the club since Giggs debuted and in that time have seen the most successful period in the clubs history. I don't for a second expect Moyes to pick up the reins and start rattling off title after title but for fcuk sake top 4 should be a given.

If Moyes can't get this squad of players into the top 4 he needs to be sacked IMO. No other club in the world with our level of resources would put up with it so why should we? Tactics have been beyond awful and his clear reluctance to try something different is infuriating, even more so considering the players we have at our disposal.

He's clearly a very dedicated and hard working manager but I think he is miles behind in a tactical sense. I honestly feel sorry for the man. He's taken up the toughest task in football management by trying to follow Fergie's legacy and so far he has failed miserably in almost every way.

No top 4 and he needs to be put out of his misery IMO.

The_Kew_Tour

No

Apparently taken in Dubai.

When they are arriving back they should lock Moyes in the Toilet .

RasTa

No

Yum yum, Sushi

KH25

No

user2011 wrote: »

:cool:

Beat that Messi :pac: :P

Just shows how incredibly talented the guy is. Arguably the best player I will ever see play for United in my lifetime. I massively regret never having seen him play in person.

lordgoat

No

KH25 wrote: »

Just shows how incredibly talented the guy is. Arguably the best player I will ever see play for United in my lifetime. I massively regret never having seen him play in person.

Go see a Madrid game, honestly it will be something to say "I saw Ronaldo play live ya)

KH25

No

lordgoat wrote: »

Go see a Madrid game, honestly it will be something to say "I saw Ronaldo play live ya)

Its on the to do list, believe me. I wish Id managed to get tickets for the CL game last year.

GSPfan

No

I have a feeling Manchester United will not sack a manager mid season. I reckon they will think about it in the Summer. If Moyes starts as manager next season i bet he will be there for the whole season.

Rayne Wooney

Sure all we need is 7 draws and good peno takers for us to win the CL :pac:

It would be a miracle if we got to the semi finals the way we're playing at the moment

Al Capwned

On Ronaldo, I'm proud to say I was in OT for that freekick against Portsmouth in '08!!


ffs it was 6 years ago a couple weeks ago!

The_Kew_Tour

No

Olympiakos are 7/2 to qualify.

Its tempting.

Al Capwned

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Olympiakos are 7/2 to qualify.

Its tempting.

This comes up fairly regularly on here, doesn't it. And while I've no problem with United fans backing other teams in games, it's not something I'll ever do.
Not that I'd put big money on football anyway, just normally 5 or 10 on an accumulator most weekends.

The_Kew_Tour

No

Al Capwned wrote: »

This comes up fairly regularly on here, doesn't it. And while I've no problem with United fans backing other teams in games, it's not something I'll ever do.
Not that I'd put big money on football anyway, just normally 5 or 10 on an accumulator most weekends.

I be still shouting for United 1000%.

I would not look at it as "well least I won few quid on it" type either.

I just think it maybe bit of value, although I think it was as high as 9/2 so I might have missed the boat.

Will leave it till nearer the game and then see.

n32

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Sure all we need is 7 draws and good peno takers for us to win the CL :pac:

It would be a miracle if we got to the semi finals the way we're playing at the moment

Ya because penalties worked out so well in the Capital One Cup!:p

The_Kew_Tour

No

We have no chance of winning penalty shootout now that Anderson has left.

Nalz

No

Scholes: "Janko has been fantastic since he came in & looks a bright prospect for the future. Hopefully he's on his way to the first team."

Yous will get to the quarters in the CL, after that it's all about the draw.

Lord TSC

No

Al Capwned wrote: »

This comes up fairly regularly on here, doesn't it. And while I've no problem with United fans backing other teams in games, it's not something I'll ever do.
Not that I'd put big money on football anyway, just normally 5 or 10 on an accumulator most weekends.

High roller. If I make a ten quid bet, I consider myself a risk taker :P

Robson99

Pro. F wrote: »

City's central midfield is strong, but Chelsea's is very ordinary, just like ours.


Ramires would easily get into our team, true.

Chelseas midfield is ordinary like ours but Ramires would easily get into ours

Ramires and Matic are far superior to Carrick and Cleverly IMO

Pro. F

No

Robson99 wrote: »

Chelseas midfield is ordinary like ours but Ramires would easily get into ours

Ramires and Matic are far superior to Carrick and Cleverly IMO

Actually yeah, Ramires wouldn't easily get into our midfield, he's not better than Fellaini.

Matic and Luiz are no better than Carrick.

Fall_Guy

Pro. F wrote: »

Actually yeah, Ramires wouldn't easily get into our midfield, he's not better than Fellaini.

Matic and Luiz are no better than Carrick.

Many would rate Ramires well above Fellaini, to be fair. If we're looking at Fellaini as a box-to-box midfielder rather than a sitting midfielder (I may be confusing you with someone else here but I think it was you who said he felt that was how Fellaini was best deployed...), I think Ramiries is far more effective in that role.

ShoulderChip

No

Fall_Guy wrote: »

Many would rate Ramires well above Fellaini, to be fair. If we're looking at Fellaini as a bob-to-box midfielder rather than a sitting midfielder (I may be confusing you with someone else here but I think it was you who said he felt that was how Fellaini was best deployed...), I think Ramiries is far more effective in that role.

Ramires starts for Brazil
Fellaini does not start for Belgium


Next...

Pro. F

No

Fall_Guy wrote: »

Many would rate Ramires well above Fellaini, to be fair. If we're looking at Fellaini as a bob-to-box midfielder rather than a sitting midfielder (I may be confusing you with someone else here but I think it was you who said he felt that was how Fellaini was best deployed...), I think Ramiries is far more effective in that role.

Many would be wrong. (and yes, box to box I'm talking about)

Robson99

Pro. F wrote: »

Actually yeah, Ramires wouldn't easily get into our midfield, he's not better than Fellaini.

Matic and Luiz are no better than Carrick.

Agree on Luiz but Matic is a better player than Carrick

Mikeyt086

No

ShoulderChip wrote: »

Ramires starts for Brazil
Fellaini does not start for Belgium


Next...

You were wrong on both accounts.

Based on the Confederations Cup, which is the last competitive games Brazil played, Ramires did not start ahead of Paulinho, Oscar, or Luiz Gustavo in a midfield 3.

Fellaini on the other hand starts regularly for Belgium, he did all through their qualifiers where they coasted the group.

Next?

Fall_Guy

Pro. F wrote: »

Many would be wrong. (and yes, box to box I'm talking about)

My thoughts are that Ramires tackles better, makes up ground in defense and attack better, and carries the ball better than Fellaini. I think he passes the ball as well as Fellaini. I don't think either will ever be prolific goal-scorers. Fellaini may be a marginally better all-round footballer but I think Ramires offers a lot more to a team than Fellaini as a box-to-box midfielder. Many would agree. What is it about both players that makes you feel that many are wrong and you are right?? Not having a go, just looking for your viewpoint...

ShoulderChip

No

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

You were wrong on both accounts.

Based on the Confederations Cup, which is the last competitive games Brazil played, Ramires did not start ahead of Paulinho, Oscar, or Luiz Gustavo in a midfield 3.

Fellaini on the other hand starts regularly for Belgium, he did all through their qualifiers where they coasted the group.

Next?

Ha Ha class,
Ok replace starts with "is their preferred choice currently" and I win.

kryogen

ShoulderChip wrote: »

Ramires starts for Brazil
Fellaini does not start for Belgium


Next...

That is a perfectly incorrect post.

Well done sir, quite the achievement.

mobydopy

TRANSFER NEWS: Ilkay Gundogan's father said that Gundogan is 'completely open' to an exit from Dortmund. Hope he returns to full fitness and signs for the Devils this summer!!!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2558494/Ilkay-Gundogans-father-puts-United-alert-claiming-Borussia-Dortmund-star-ready-leave.html

The_Kew_Tour

No

So he is off to Madrid then:pac:

Pro. F

No

Judging players' quality by whether and which national team they start for is not an argument. It is an "I don't have an opinion myself" statement.

MD1990

No

mabroorahmed99 wrote: »

TRANSFER NEWS: Ilkay Gundogan's father said that Gundogan is 'completely open' to an exit from Dortmund. Hope he returns to full fitness and signs for the Devils this summer!!!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2558494/Ilkay-Gundogans-father-puts-United-alert-claiming-Borussia-Dortmund-star-ready-leave.html

don't get excited
no chance he will join Man Utd
he will want to join a top club si i think he will go to Madrid or Barca

Your Airbag

Gundogan apparently has spondylolisthesis. He may never play regularly for another team again.

How Soon Is Now

No

Your Airbag wrote: »

Gundogan apparently has spondylolisthesis. He may never play regularly for another team again.

If they offered us a leper at this stage anything would be better then Carrick and Cleverly.

Pro. F

No

Fall_Guy wrote: »

My thoughts are that Ramires tackles better, makes up ground in defense and attack better, and carries the ball better than Fellaini. I think he passes the ball as well as Fellaini. I don't think either will ever be prolific goal-scorers. Fellaini may be a marginally better all-round footballer but I think Ramires offers a lot more to a team than Fellaini as a box-to-box midfielder. Many would agree. What is it about both players that makes you feel that many are wrong and you are right?? Not having a go, just looking for your viewpoint...

I would say that Ramires has more pace and discipline. Ramires is better running with the ball, but Fellaini is better receiving and holding onto the ball in a tight spot. Fellaini is more of a goal threat because he is so strong in the air.

I like Ramires a lot, but he is not clearly better than Fellaini. He is certainly not miles better than Fellaini. Unless you are talking about very specific roles in particular teams, there is not a lot between the two.

ShoulderChip

No

Pro. F wrote: »

Judging players' quality by whether and which national team they start for is not an argument. It is an "I don't have an opinion myself" statement.

Yeah exactly, sure Mata couldn't get near the Chelsea team and we can see now how foolish that was.

mobydopy

MD1990 wrote: »

don't get excited
no chance he will join Man Utd
he will want to join a top club si i think he will go to Madrid or Barca

Yeah cuz United aren't a top club. This time last year, i bet you'd say United are the best club in the country but now that we have a new manager who is struggling, you think United are not a top club anymore. Don't judge a club by where they are in the table!!

onemorechance

"A set of earnings - published by German paper BILD - show the Red Devils' target to be one of the poorest paid stars at the Allianz Arena"

The_Kew_Tour

No

mabroorahmed99 wrote: »

Yeah cuz United aren't a top club. This time last year, i bet you'd say United are the best club in the country but now that we have a new manager who is struggling, you think United are not a top club anymore. Don't judge a club by where they are in the table!!

He is just a disappointed Man United fan like rest of us:)