Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod Warning: Post #7871

Mikeyt086

No

ShoulderChip wrote: »

Ha Ha class,
Ok replace starts with "is their preferred choice currently" and I win.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cg_8knBHEyw

DM_7

Poorest paid, that is funny

The_Kew_Tour

No

Kroos is looking for a new contract. Between now and August anyday I expect to see a headline that says "Toni Kroos Signs new deal at Bayern"

mobydopy

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

He is just a disappointed Man United fan like rest of us:)

Fair enough

onemorechance

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Kroos is looking for a new contract. Between now and August anyday I expect to see a headline that says "Toni Kroos Signs new deal at Bayern"

Munich will surely at the very least offer him 8 or 9, which would double his wages. United will probably have to offer him triple his current wages if money will convince him to leave Bayern.

Rayne Wooney

I hope the contract breakdown is over no playing assurances rather than money, he's on a fringe players salary whereas new arrivals Gotze and Lewandowski(summer) are on first 11 pay grade, despite Kroos being very important for them in recent years. Now Thiago seems to be ahead of him in the pecking order.

So if he signs a contract we'll know money is more important, if he doesn't he'll be off in the summer. Not sure we could get him if Madrid or another team came calling and no CL football but hopefully Woodward can do the seemingly impossible if he does become available.

The_Kew_Tour

No

onemorechance wrote: »

Munich will surely at the very least offer him 8 or 9, which would double his wages. United will probably have to offer him triple his current wages if money will convince him to leave Bayern.

Can you see Woodward or Moyes convincing Kroos?

I cant. I be sure thrilled to be proven wrong though.

adox

No

Last thing I want to see from Utd is another fooking Kroos.





......coat.

brinty

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Can you see Woodward or Moyes convincing Kroos?

I cant. I be sure thrilled to be proven wrong though.

I said this earlier Kew and I got hammered for daring to suggest they couldn't...

I've seen nothing that convinces me they can yet...

MagicMarker

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Can you see Woodward or Moyes convincing Kroos?

I cant. I be sure thrilled to be proven wrong though.

brinty wrote: »

I said this earlier Kew and I got hammered for daring to suggest they couldn't...

I've seen nothing that convinces me they can yet...

Schwiiing

I bet Mata moved to Utd because he knew he could walk into the first team and increase his chances of getting in to the Spain WC squad. He wasn't going to knowingly rot on the Chelsea bench and run out his contract.

brinty

MagicMarker wrote: »

Tis common knowledge they had nothing to do with that deal..
Fergie and Gill got that done..and 3rd parties..
Moyes and woodward had nothing to do with it

Pro. F

No

brinty wrote: »

Tis common knowledge they had nothing to do with that deal..
Fergie and Gill got that done..and 3rd parties..
Moyes and woodward had nothing to do with it

lol

MagicMarker

brinty wrote: »

Tis common knowledge they had nothing to do with that deal..
Fergie and Gill got that done..and 3rd parties..
Moyes and woodward had nothing to do with it

Me ballix.

Moyes & Woodward are the men in charge, the deal was done at their behest. End of story. I don't believe for a second that Moyes would let anyone dictate to him who they're going to sign, if you have proof to the contrary then I'm sure you'll be able to show it to us all.

J. Marston

No

Schwiiing wrote: »

I bet Mata moved to Utd because he knew he could walk into the first team and increase his chances of getting in to the Spain WC squad. He wasn't going to knowingly rot on the Chelsea bench and run out his contract.

Nope, he was enticed by the opportunity to work with David Moyes. And who could blame him?

bucketybuck

No

If it's a choice between Carrick, Cleverley, Jones, Felliani, Fletcher and Giggs

or

Ramires, Lampard, Luiz, Matic and Mikel

Then sorry but I'd take the Chelsea lot all day long.

Will I Amnt

No

brinty wrote: »

Tis common knowledge they had nothing to do with that deal..
Fergie and Gill got that done..and 3rd parties..
Moyes and woodward had nothing to do with it

I really thought that was sarcasm. Some people peddle any old shìte for the sake of it.

onemorechance

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Can you see Woodward or Moyes convincing Kroos?

I cant. I be sure thrilled to be proven wrong though.

I think the player himself already knows, and has decided what he wants. I will guess that staying at Munich is his preference, but if he is worried about not being first choice, or if they refuse to up his wages to be on par with the clubs other stars, then I will guess that this will be what convinces him to move.

If the player needs a lot of convincing from Moyes and or Woodward, I'm really not sure what they can do other than offer the big wages. He should know himself that he is capable of holding down a first 11 place. Moyes I guess could let him know that he intends to build a team around him and win PL and CL.

Moyes isn't in the situation that SAF was when he signed Keane; SAF told Keane, we're gonna keep winning the PL whether you sign or not, but if you sign, we'll win the CL!

Moyes can only say, we won't even qualify for the CL if you don't sign! :pac:

onemorechance

MagicMarker wrote: »

Me ballix.

Moyes & Woodward are the men in charge, the deal was done at their behest. End of story. I don't believe for a second that Moyes would let anyone dictate to him who they're going to sign, if you have proof to the contrary then I'm sure you'll be able to show it to us all.

It seems that it was a very shrewd move on the part of United. It was reported that United (Woodward) used the third party and refused to talk to Chelsea directly they would try to include discussion of Ronney. If true then moyesully they can reproduce these shrewd moves in the summer.

bucketybuck

No

onemorechance wrote: »

It seems that it was a very shrewd move on the part of United. It was reported that United (Woodward) used the third party and refused to talk to Chelsea directly they would try to include discussion of Ronney.

I'm remain amazed that anybody thinks that story actually reflects well on Woodward.

Al Capwned

On Gundogan and that condition he apparently has - Has this been officially confirmed by the player, his club or anyone reputable??

I googled "gundogan spondylolisthesis" and 4 of the results on the first page are basically the same story that was posted in the last thread here just copied and pasted from this thread on Red Cafe it would seem.

Looking further, they are both posted by someone posting on behalf of a newbie who hasn't gotten full access to the forum yet.

So i'm just wondering if this condition has been confirmed by anywhere trustworthy.

onemorechance

bucketybuck wrote: »

I'm remain amazed that anybody thinks that story actually reflects well on Woodward.

I'm not sure how it does not reflect well on him.

Not only do United still have the player that Chelsea really want, Rooney, they also have Chelsea's player-of-the-last-two-years! :pac:

racso1975

onemorechance wrote: »

I'm not sure how it does not reflect well on him.

Not only do United still have the player that Chelsea really want, Rooney, they also have Chelsea's player-of-the-last-two-years! :pac:

They actually just have player chelsea do not want.

Paul Tergat

Mata is a great signing. I dont give a shít how he was signed. The only issue around him is the position and how he (and the team as a whole) are being asked to play.

Your Airbag

Al Capwned wrote: »

On Gundogan and that condition he apparently has - Has this been officially confirmed by the player, his club or anyone reputable??

I googled "gundogan spondylolisthesis" and 4 of the results on the first page are bashttp://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=88996908ically the same story that was posted in the last thread here just copied and pasted from this thread on Red Cafe.

Looking further, they are all posted by someone posting on behalf of a newbie who hasn't gotten full access to the forum yet.

So i'm just wondering if this condition has been confirmed by anywhere trustworthy.

No it hasn't been made official yet. The word is a guy "in the know" on the caf got some information from an "in the know" Dortmund fan.

What we know for sure is he has back problems that have kept him out.

The condition means the sufferer is missing the bone between vertabrae and sacrum. Only remedy is spinal fusion. Risk very high. Pinching nerves cause traveling back pain. Could occur lower back either side unfortunately upper middle anywhere really.

bucketybuck

No

onemorechance wrote: »

I'm not sure how it does not reflect well on him.

Not only do United still have the player that Chelsea really want, Rooney, they also have Chelsea's player-of-the-last-two-years! :pac:

Our CEO really felt that the best way to conduct business with another premier league club was to effectively hide in his office and not talk to them? Because if they mentioned Rooney he wouldn't know how to handle the situation? And this is a good thing? :pac:

A lot of football is personal relationships, contacts between managers, CEO's and agents are the grease that makes the majority of transfers and other dealings happen. Woodward won't always have David Gill or Fergie to go and do his job for him, far better if he had manned up and dealt with Chelsea directly.

And don't forget, according to these same reports Chelsea were very eager to deal on selling Mata, ringing Woodward repeatedly to try and start the deal. It should have been a relatively easy deal for Woodward, so I simply do not see it as a good thing that he didn't feel able to deal personally with a major Premier league rival. YMMV.

Your Airbag

bucketybuck wrote: »

Our CEO really felt that the best way to conduct business with another premier league club was to effectively hide in his office and not talk to them? Because if they mentioned Rooney he wouldn't know how to handle the situation? And this is a good thing? :pac:

Your taking a very biased view of the situation just to make fun. None of whats written above is close to the truth or what would happen in the real world.

bucketybuck wrote: »

I'm remain amazed that anybody thinks that story actually reflects well on Woodward.

Its to be believed Woody played a blinder in that deal.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/jan/26/chelsea-manchester-united-juan-mata-transfer

Perhaps the most intriguing part of the long, complex process that finally led to a helicopter carrying Juan Mata arriving at Manchester United's training ground on Saturday is that a £37.1m deal can be arranged without as much as a telephone call between the clubs. Several months of positioning, mutual suspicion and political bargaining, and everything was done without a single word being exchanged in person.


Chelsea certainly tried. On more than one occasion, a message reached Ed Woodward, United's chief executive, that the relevant people at Stamford Bridge were open to sitting at the other side of the negotiating table. Each time, he politely declined. Everybody in football knows Chelsea want to sign Wayne Rooney and Woodward reasoned that it would be virtually impossible to keep them sweet on Mata while also informing them they could forget about anything happening the other way.


Instead, the background to the Mata deal is a case study about how complicated and sensitive these big-money arrangements can be, and an insight into the high influence of agents in the modern business. Without them, both clubs recognise the chances of the deal going through were nonexistent. Seven different agents approached United since August to say they could make it happen. As it turned out, they used Mata's father, Juan senior, and Colin Pomford, a Madrid-based agent who specialises in Spanish business going back to Steve McManaman's time at Liverpool and, later, the Rafael Benítez era.


What has never come out before is that United first heard Mata was open to leaving Chelsea, and keen on moving to Manchester, late in the August transfer window, after he had picked up strong vibes from José Mourinho that he would be used only sparingly. Woodward never actively followed it up because of the Rooney situation. He did, however, establish that David Moyes liked the player.





Their next information – after the window closed – was that Mata was so unhappy he had been to see the top people at Chelsea, among them Roman Abramovich, and been given a verbal agreement that if he carried on being left out of the team, and maintained his professionalism, he would be allowed to leave in January. Chelsea would later harden that into a written agreement that included a €45m buyout and – possibly still thinking about the Rooney issue – one proviso: that the figure could not be activated by United.


That could easily have been the end of the deal. Except Mata and his father went back to Stamford Bridge, once it became clear there was interest from Old Trafford, and asked for the condition to be removed. One of the people involved in the negotiations has told this newspaper that Mata and Abramovich are "almost like friends". Mata had kept to his side, bar one fit of pique after being substituted, and Abramovich respected that.


Chelsea gave him a verbal promise, but nothing in writing, and then sent a message, via Pomford, that maybe it was time the two clubs met face to face. Woodward said no. He simply did not want to risk changing the temperature by getting involved in any talks about Rooney and, with nothing in writing, he was not willing to take any chances about the price suddenly going up.


A separate message came back to United that Chelsea would welcome an official bid on a specific day. Woodward declined again. Instead, his lawyers faxed through a "transfer agreement" informing Chelsea that United had met the buy-out clause and would pay the money, as stipulated, in three parts.
But the game of cat and mouse continued. Chelsea indicated again they wanted to talk and would even let Mata travel to Manchester to take his medical. Except Woodward knew, again, that Rooney would crop up and potentially kibosh the whole deal. "He couldn't risk it," according to one source. So he sat tight, while Mata and the relevant agents went to work behind the scenes. Then Mourinho went public that Mata could leave and that was always going to speed up the process. Finally, the deal was closed on Saturday.


For Woodward, it is the biggest coup of his time in charge at Old Trafford. United have been accused of panic-buying and maybe, in light of the new detail, that is an unfair slant to put on it. The club had, however, advised journalists to "ignore" any speculation about Mata earlier in January, and sources say they still felt as recently as Tuesday that it was far more likely to happen, if at all, in the summer.


If Mata still feels like a strange buy, it is largely because Moyes has insisted for several months that all he wants is a central midfielder and a left-back. Questions about Mata were knocked back on the basis United already had Wayne Rooney and Shinji Kagawa for the No10 position, in line with the club's explanation for not challenging Arsenal for the signature of Mesut Özil.


So why Mata and not Özil? Timing, basically. Özil was offered to United in the first week of the summer transfer window, but Moyes had barely seen Kagawa at that point and wanted to learn more about a player about whom Sir Alex Ferguson had left glowing reports. As it has turned out, Kagawa has been disappointing. United, however, would prefer to keep him for now, not least because Mata is ineligible in the Champions League.

Rayne Wooney

So why Mata and not Özil? Timing, basically. Özil was offered to United in the first week of the summer transfer window, but Moyes had barely seen Kagawa at that point and wanted to learn more about a player about whom Sir Alex Ferguson had left glowing reports. As it has turned out, Kagawa has been disappointing. United, however, would prefer to keep him for now, not least because Mata is ineligible in the Champions League.

bucketybuck

No

Your Airbag wrote: »

Your taking a very biased view of the situation just to make fun.

Just to make fun?

:rolleyes:

You do realise that other people sometimes have different opinions, a strange thing I know.

Your Airbag

bucketybuck wrote: »

Just to make fun?

:rolleyes:

You do realise that other people sometimes have different opinions, a strange thing I know.

No problem with you having a different opinion but the picture you painted of a grown man too scared to come out of his office was obviously to rip the piss.

If you read the article you'll see Woodys judgement on when not to step in on a tightrope of a transfer deal and to use a 3rd party was pretty shrewd and essential in getting the deal done.

At any moment it could have fell apart. We ended up with a good player and keeping Rooney.

Cheif execs dont hide in their offices if they are scared or would be allowed to by their employers. In fact anyone who goes to a job has to deal with fcuk ups and pressure and doesn't get to hide in an office. That part was nonsense.

Your Airbag

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Pic of guy staring in disbelief in relation to text below

So why Mata and not Özil? Timing, basically. Özil was offered to United in the first week of the summer transfer window, but Moyes had barely seen Kagawa at that point and wanted to learn more about a player about whom Sir Alex Ferguson had left glowing reports. As it has turned out, Kagawa has been disappointing. United, however, would prefer to keep him for now, not least because Mata is ineligible in the Champions League.

Moyes wanted to asses Kagawa who plays the same positon that Mata can. Moyes was not to know Kagawa would struggle and also had Rooney in that position.

Also and iirc Kagawa joined the pre season late so at the time of the early Ozil offer Moyes has seen nothing of Kagawa. It make sense to want to wait and assess a player already in the squad. Moyes went with Kagawa after that.

Ozil got off to a good start but is considered to have been not such a great signing by many Gunner fans now. He has had many poor games where he goes missing.

Mata also has more wing experience than Kagawa. Whether Kagawa over Ozil and Mata rather than Ozil will turn out to be correct we will have to see.

Rayne Wooney

Your Airbag wrote: »

Moyes wanted to asses Kagawa who plays the same positon that Mata can. Moyes was not to know Kagawa would struggle and also had Rooney in that position.

Also and iirc Kagawa joined the pre season late so with the early offer Moyes has seen nothing of Kagawa. It make sense. Moyes went with Kagawa after that.

Ozil got off to a good start but is considered to have been not such a great signing by many Gunner fans now. He has had many poor games where he goes missing.

Mata also has more wing experience than Kagawa. Whether Kagawa over Ozil and Mata rather than Ozil will turn out to be correct we will have to see.

I was more shocked at the part where Fergie gave Kagawa a glowing report despite playing him left wing most of last season to not much success, and then Moyes keeping up the trend with not much success either.


It may sound crazy but I'd like Moyes to play Rooney or RVP up front and Kagawa, Mata and Januzaj behind in the CL games. Playing Rooney in that position kind of promotes going to the wings more whereas evidence shows Mata and Kagawa won't go straight for the wings and will try and crack the defence first.

NUTZZ

Lapping it up in the sun in Dubai...guess they just leave the worrying to the fans;


Robin Van Persie (right) and Nemanja Vidic (left) enjoy lunch after touching down in Dubai [INSTAGRAM]

Van Persie wrote: "Enjoying good lunch with my bro Vida."

Your Airbag

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I was more shocked at the part where Fergie gave Kagawa a glowing report despite playing him left wing most of last season to not much success, and then Moyes keeping up the trend with not much success either.


It may sound crazy but I'd like Moyes to play Rooney or RVP up front and Kagawa, Mata and Januzaj behind in the CL games. Playing Rooney in that position kind of promotes going to the wings more whereas evidence shows Mata and Kagawa won't go straight for the wings and will try and crack the defence first.

Ah right, the Fergie giving a glowing report thing might seem weird after he dropped him or played him out of position so much but like Moyes I guess he comes to the conclusion that Rooney is much better in terms of being a player perfectly built for the EPL.

I was actually think it would be interesting to see a 4-3-3 false nine formation with Jan Roo & RVP up top (with RVP wide like Villa was for Barca and Rooney in the false nine or Messi role) and you'd have Fellaini at the base of the midfeild three in the Busquets role with Mata and Kagawa linking in front of them like Xavi & Iniesta and Rooney too when he drops back. Then I realised how stupid/insane the idea was and laughed at myself.

Nalz

No

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

It may sound crazy but I'd like Moyes to play Rooney or RVP up front and Kagawa, Mata and Januzaj behind in the CL games. Playing Rooney in that position kind of promotes going to the wings more whereas evidence shows Mata and Kagawa won't go straight for the wings and will try and crack the defence first.

When? In 3 or 4 years time? Mata and Kagawa will never start a CL game together for utd

Hococop

No

Mata played a cl game for Chelsea so he is out of it for us

Rayne Wooney

Forgot about that

2moreMinutes

NUTZZ wrote: »

Lapping it up in the sun in Dubai...guess they just leave the worrying to the fans;
Robin Van Persie (right) and Nemanja Vidic (left) enjoy lunch after touching down in Dubai [INSTAGRAM]

Van Persie wrote: "Enjoying good lunch with my bro Vida."

Now you have me feeling guilty for having a nice lunch today too:(

SherlockWatson

Trilla wrote: »

When? In 3 or 4 years time? Mata and Kagawa will never start a CL game together for utd

*not under moyes.

Nalz

No

SherlockWatson wrote: »

*not under moyes.

No never imo regardless of manager because mata can't this season and we won't be in it next season and I doubt kagawa will be around the following one.

SherlockWatson

Trilla wrote: »

No never imo regardless of manager because mata can't this season and we won't be in it next season and I doubt kagawa will be around the following one.

I'd hope if Moyes is replaced then Kagawa would be properly utilized next season, and if that was the case, there's no reason the two of them couldn't play together the season after.

Unlikely as I don't see Moyes getting the sack this summer.

Liam O

Januzaj shouldn't be let near the CL imo. He's not ready and has been poor most of this season. He's the golden boy though and the great white hope and in fairness has done well in relation to his age but in terms of the CL knockout stages, he's not there yet.

Giggsy11

You can blame Moyes for many things but FFS stop posting random crap like Mata played on the wings. No, he didn't play even a single game on wings. Just because Sky sports or anyother channel shows the starting line up and puts Mata on right or left doesn't mean he played as a winger.

Check the heat map of every game Mata played and prove that he played as a winger, every single game he spent most of the time as an attacking midfielder.

We have 1000 reasons to blame Moyes, so don't need to make up something to add to it.

Giggsy11

Liam O wrote: »

Januzaj shouldn't be let near the CL imo. He's not ready and has been poor most of this season. He's the golden boy though and the great white hope and in fairness has done well in relation to his age but in terms of the CL knockout stages, he's not there yet.

Januzaj was always either our best player or second best player when he started. Even when he comes on as a sub, it's so obvious how the whole game changes.

Liam O

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Januzaj was always either our best player or second best player when he started. Even when he comes on as a sub, it's so obvious how the whole game changes.

I can't remember the last time there was a telling influence from him in a game. He's simply not ready, that's ok but he shouldn't be getting as mich gametime. Then again it's not like anyone's really stood out in recent weeks bar Kagawa against Swansea and he was swiftly dropped for that.

Giggsy11

Liam O wrote: »

I can't remember the last time there was a telling influence from him in a game. He's simply not ready, that's ok but he shouldn't be getting as mich gametime. Then again it's not like anyone's really stood out in recent weeks bar Kagawa against Swansea and he was swiftly dropped for that.

IIRC since Sunderland game (where he had off day but still create few chances) he didn't start a single game (since Mata was signed), before that in the game against Sunderland, Swansea, Spurs he was one of our best player.

Backstreet Moyes

Liam O wrote: »

Januzaj shouldn't be let near the CL imo. He's not ready and has been poor most of this season. He's the golden boy though and the great white hope and in fairness has done well in relation to his age but in terms of the CL knockout stages, he's not there yet.

In relation to his age he has done well? He has outperformed every single winger we have this season by a distance. Everytime he comes onto the field we look more dangerous. Saying he has been poor is something i wouldn't expect even from an ABU nevermind a United fan who has been watching games.

bren2001

Liam O wrote: »

Januzaj shouldn't be let near the CL imo. He's not ready and has been poor most of this season. He's the golden boy though and the great white hope and in fairness has done well in relation to his age but in terms of the CL knockout stages, he's not there yet.

I agree he should not be used in the CL but saying he has been poor for most of the season, well, if I can just borrow a quote from you:

Liam O wrote: »

Yep. People make statements without watching the games. I'm convinced of it now.

IamtheWalrus

Liam O wrote: »

Yep. People make statements without watching the games. I'm convinced of it now.

I base my opinions on gifs.

beno619

No

The saddest thing about the Kagawa conversation is if he played for Chelsea, Arsenal or Liverpool we would be discussing if he's the best 10# in the country. This is a player capable of being the PFA player of the year.

Instead he'll ride off into the sun and tear it up in another country