Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod Warning: Post #7871

Johner

lordgoat wrote: »

Or for those that are interested, there's an FA youth cup game tonight at 7 against huddersfield. With the winner to play City/Chelsea(i think)

It's actually City or Fulham goaty. How are your lads looking this year?

Mars Bar

Sucks for Tunnicliffe and Cole that Rene was sacked.

Its All Wright

Moyes should give Rene a call and get him back but wont

Chagan

No

Was just reading about Magath and it said he imposed a €1000 fine every time an unnecessary backpass was made. We could use Carrick and Cleverley to finance a new CM partnership if Moyes started it!

n32

n32 wrote: »

it would be nice to think that Moyes might swallow his pride and offer Muelensteen a coaching job but alas we re stuck with steve round and jimmy lumsden!

Well first of all, Muelensteen is a manager now. So going back to coach isn't going to happen.

For all the things Moyes should be criticised for, he should not be criticised for bringing in his own backroom staff. This is something almost every single manager does when he takes up the job at a new club. Adding to that, none of us know about the contribution the backroom staff make, it's just guesswork.

n32

Sacramento wrote: »

Well first of all, Muelensteen is a manager now. So going back to coach isn't going to happen.

For all the things Moyes should be criticised for, he should not be criticised for bringing in his own backroom staff. This is something almost every single manager does when he takes up the job at a new club. Adding to that, none of us know about the contribution the backroom staff make, it's just guesswork.

Fair point about bringing in his own staff but this wasnt any normal job he was coming into. For a man making such a step up with no experience of managing a huge club it would have been a prudent move to retain at least some of the staff who could continue what they had been doing. Instead we had a manager and his staff with no experience of managing/coaching a top team learning on the job. Bringing in his own staff would be a good move for most jobs but not for taking over from Alex Ferguson.

n32

n32 wrote: »

Fair point about bringing in his own staff but this wasnt any normal job he was coming into. For a man making such a step up with no experience of managing a huge club it would have been a prudent move to retain at least some of the staff who could continue what they had been doing. Instead we had a manager and his staff with no experience of managing/coaching a top team learning on the job. Bringing in his own staff would be a good move for most jobs but not for taking over from Alex Ferguson.

Well, was Mourinho coming from Porto to Chelsea really any different? Reason I ask is because Mourinho did the same thing then, brought his backroom staff to Chelsea. Every single manager does this, regardless of where they come from, keeping your hand picked backroom staff is standard fare, club stature regardless.

It's all well and good complaining that he shouldn't have let the backroom staff go and brought his own people in but your reasoning doesn't hold true with other similar sized clubs. Things don't appear to be working out but it's just plain weird to begin pointing fingers at the backroom staff, we have no idea how much of an effect they have.

GSPfan

No

Ross Barkley
Now that the hype surrounding him has died down, Would you like the idea of signing him this Summer at a reasonable price?
I see him as a future central midfielder, so would it be acceptable to buy him with the intention of playing him in central midfield alongside a new World Class central midfielder?

I ask this because I think it will be hard to tempt even 1 established World Class midfielder in the Summer so would he be someone that would be good as a player with potential?

n32

Sacramento wrote: »

Well, was Mourinho coming from Porto to Chelsea really any different? Reason I ask is because Mourinho did the same thing then, brought his backroom staff to Chelsea. Every single manager does this, regardless of where they come from, keeping your hand picked backroom staff is standard fare, club stature regardless.

It's all well and good complaining that he shouldn't have let the backroom staff go and brought his own people in but your reasoning doesn't hold true with other similar sized clubs. Things don't appear to be working out but it's just plain weird to begin pointing fingers at the backroom staff, we have no idea how much of an effect they have.

Mourinho was after winning the Uefa Cup, Portugese League and Champions League and had experience working with Barcelona. Managing Porto is a high profile job in Portugal . And he was going into Chelsea who had been underachieving for years. Moyes on the other hand has won nothing, never managed or worked at a top club and was replacing a manager who was after winning constantly for the previous 26 years so it was a totally different scenario from Mourinho joining Chelsea

Lucas Hood

No

Anyone listen to John Giles on off the ball last night ? Said Mata should have played where Cleverley played against Arsenal and that's where he played in his first 2 seasons at Chelsea.


I like Giles but I think football is passing him by at this stage.

Winston Payne

Mata played half his first season out on the wing for Chelsea. For a start.

n32

n32 wrote: »

Mourinho was after winning the Uefa Cup, Portugese League and Champions League and had experience working with Barcelona. Managing Porto is a high profile job in Portugal . And he was going into Chelsea who had been underachieving for years. Moyes on the other hand has won nothing, never managed or worked at a top club and was replacing a manager who was after winning constantly for the previous 26 years so it was a totally different scenario from Mourinho joining Chelsea

OK but every manager that has moved to a top level club have done it, regardless if they came from a big club or a small one so I'm puzzled as to why you think Moyes should have bucked the trend and not done it? The ones that haven't are at a club that employ a director of football so they have less control anyway.

sky88

No

GSPfan wrote: »

Ross Barkley
Now that the hype surrounding him has died down, Would you like the idea of signing him this Summer at a reasonable price?
I see him as a future central midfielder, so would it be acceptable to buy him with the intention of playing him in central midfield alongside a new World Class central midfielder?

I ask this because I think it will be hard to tempt even 1 established World Class midfielder in the Summer so would he be someone that would be good as a player with potential?

He'd be a step up from cleverley but I think he'd end up being another jack rodwell, who showed promise but is really just a good player and nothing special

Johner

sky88 wrote: »

He'd be a step up from cleverley but I think he'd end up being another jack rodwell, who showed promise but is really just a good player and nothing special

Don't think that would happen to Barkley at all, he'd be a starter for United. Rodwells career has stalled as he's been sat on City's bench since he arrived.

n32

Sacramento wrote: »

OK but every manager that has moved to a top level club have done it, regardless if they came from a big club or a small one so I'm puzzled as to why you think Moyes should have bucked the trend and not done it? The ones that haven't are at a club that employ a director of football so they have less control anyway.

I know a lot of managers do it but Moyes was taking over a job in unique circumstances. Taking over from Ferguson was a completely different challenge to what most managers face when taking over a new job. The vast majority of managers take over from a sacked manager whose staff get the sack with him. Taking over from a successful regime is a different story altogether. I would have liked him to recognise that major changes werent needed straight away. A bit of continuity by having Muelensteen there to advise/coach would have given Moyes a great platform to get settled into the job.

TheTownie

No

GSPfan wrote: »

Ross Barkley
Now that the hype surrounding him has died down, Would you like the idea of signing him this Summer at a reasonable price?
I see him as a future central midfielder, so would it be acceptable to buy him with the intention of playing him in central midfield alongside a new World Class central midfielder?

I ask this because I think it will be hard to tempt even 1 established World Class midfielder in the Summer so would he be someone that would be good as a player with potential?

Apparently since he came back from that bad injury he had, it was decided that no10 would be his best position because Everton didn't think he could cover the ground in CM anymore.

Winston Payne

Moyes is a training ground manager. He'd take a lot of the sessions himself, and that was something Meulensteen used to do. Even if Moyes wanted to keep him, (and he offered him a backroom role after he came, so unless that was the best pointless bluff in history it's likely he did want him) the role that Meulensteen would have played in first-team affairs would have been reduced as it was. I think Meulensteen wanted a manager's job anyway, so even if Moyes wasn't as active on the training ground as he is it's likely that Meulensteen would have left after SAF anyway.

lordgoat

No

Johner wrote: »

It's actually City or Fulham goaty. How are your lads looking this year?

Not that good at the moment!

We have a decent team as normal, very good striker James Wilson and a couple of others I like. We keep doing stupid things at the back (esp in this this game)

Winston Payne wrote: »

Moyes is a training ground manager. He'd take a lot of the sessions himself, and that was something Meulensteen used to do. Even if Moyes wanted to keep him, (and he offered him a backroom role after he came, so unless that was the best pointless bluff in history it's likely he did want him) the role that Meulensteen would have played in first-team affairs would have been reduced as it was. I think Meulensteen wanted a manager's job anyway, so even if Moyes wasn't as active on the training ground as he is it's likely that Meulensteen would have left after SAF anyway.

Rene went to manage Brondby, failed miserable and came back to united. I wouldn't be surprised to see him end up as a coach somewhere in a team at the top end of a league.

Winston Payne

He looked to have the itch for it again last summer though. I'll definitely be keeping an eye out for where he ends up next.

2moreMinutes

Sacramento wrote: »

Well first of all, Muelensteen is a manager now. So going back to coach isn't going to happen.

He has been employed as a manager. I'm not entirely sure he could actually be called a manager though.

Backstreet Moyes

Johner wrote: »

Don't think that would happen to Barkley at all, he'd be a starter for United. Rodwells career has stalled as he's been sat on City's bench since he arrived.

Why do you think he would start for United. His best performances have been in the no 10 role and they were blown out of proportion by the English Media. He has potential but he would not be starting ahead of Carrick or Fellaini.

n32

Winston Payne wrote: »

He looked to have the itch for it again last summer though. I'll definitely be keeping an eye out for where he ends up next.

his situation is a bit like Brian Kidd. Well respected assistant but didnt work out as a manager

Johner

Nuts102 wrote: »

Why do you think he would start for United. His best performances have been in the no 10 role and they were blown out of proportion by the English Media. He has potential but he would not be starting ahead of Carrick or Fellaini.

Well it definitely wouldn't be a Rodwell/City situation if Barkley went to United. I think he's a fantastic talent but he's going to cost £25-£30 million and IF United do spend that kind of money on him he won't be sitting on the bench for long. I think United would be a good fit for him, he's being hyped up an awful lot and probably too much but he is a great talent and has a great future in the game.

billyhead

Do other people feel that it will be very hard to attract top class footballers to sign for us without CL football next season?

Backstreet Moyes

Johner wrote: »

Well it definitely wouldn't be a Rodwell/City situation if Barkley went to United. I think he's a fantastic talent but he's going to cost £25-£30 million and IF United do spend that kind of money on him he won't be sitting on the bench for long. I think United would be a good fit for him, he's being hyped up an awful lot and probably too much but he is a great talent and has a great future in the game.

For that money you could get a world class midfielder which is what United need not a young player with potential.

Lord TSC

No

billyhead wrote: »

Do other people feel that it will be very hard to attract top class footballers to sign for us without CL football next season?

It will be harder, and we will have to overpay. But money talks. Combine it with a new respected manager and we can still get them.

GSPfan

No

I think it has been hard for years to attract the best players with the amount of Oil Rich owners but maybe with Financial fair play it might not be so hard if that is enforced. Less competition and less chance of being out bid.

n32

n32 wrote: »

I know a lot of managers do it but Moyes was taking over a job in unique circumstances. Taking over from Ferguson was a completely different challenge to what most managers face when taking over a new job. The vast majority of managers take over from a sacked manager whose staff get the sack with him. Taking over from a successful regime is a different story altogether. I would have liked him to recognise that major changes werent needed straight away. A bit of continuity by having Muelensteen there to advise/coach would have given Moyes a great platform to get settled into the job.

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this, for all of Moyes failings, bringing in his own backroom staff is fine by me. I fully expected him to do so and I'd be surprised if any manager we could have brought in instead of him wouldn't have done the exact same thing.

DM_7

Nuts102 wrote: »

For that money you could get a world class midfielder which is what United need not a young player with potential.

Would you get an established, elite player for that? I'm not so sure, not with the market these days.

I wouldn't mind United getting young players with potential, it's a more realistic aim and something that should have been done before now. An Axel Witsel type signing when he went to Russia. around 22/23 with plenty of 1st team games played and already at a high level but potential to be even better.

ericzeking

On the backroom staff thing, I agree that Moyes should have brought in his own guys who he was comfortable with and knew his system and that this is normal for a manager.... But anyone else notice that Jimmy Lumsdon has been laying pretty low lately...started the season on the bench beside Moyes but now seems to have disappeared unless I'm missing something?

Backstreet Moyes

DM-ICE wrote: »

Would you get an established, elite player for that? I'm not so sure, not with the market these days.

I wouldn't mind United getting young players with potential, it's a more realistic aim and something that should have been done before now. An Axel Witsel type signing when he went to Russia. around 22/23 with plenty of 1st team games played and already at a high level but potential to be even better.

Would you get an established player for the Barkley money of course you would.

You would also probably pick up two young similar talented players for the same money. I think Barkley has potential but he has had two bad injuries already at such a young age, his best performances have been in a position we don't need and his performances have been overhyped. Similar to a young Anderson except Anderson had proved more and had more potential.

Backstreet Moyes

ericzeking wrote: »

On the backroom staff thing, I agree that Moyes should have brought in his own guys who he was comfortable with and knew his system and that this is normal for a manager.... But anyone else notice that Jimmy Lumsdon has been laying pretty low lately...started the season on the bench beside Moyes but now seems to have disappeared unless I'm missing something?[/QUOTE}

I have no problem with Moyes bringing in some backroom staff. But look at his 3 main coaches Round, Lumsdon and Phil Neville they have no experience at this level. Moyes needs an assistant who will challenge him and freshen up ideas.

mewe

No

This is my match lads. http://www.boards.ie/love.php?match=hot

Can't embed it like all ye pros but feelin the love

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWr30uoSCrw

Hococop

No

I don't need to do that stupid love test, because i know i love each and everyone on this thread...

Timmyctc

No

Mines seems to entirely be from this thread
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Hangballlouie

How strong is Utds youth team/ reserves?:do you have many coming through the ranks? The Europa could be perfect next year if you get it to blood some of the younger quality players. it defo benefited Liverpool last year and we can see players like Sterling being mainstays going forward.

Investment is needed for you but Europa League and giving youth a chance could help for the long term.

Giggsy11

Sacramento wrote: »

Well first of all, Muelensteen is a manager now. So going back to coach isn't going to happen.

For all the things Moyes should be criticised for, he should not be criticised for bringing in his own backroom staff. This is something almost every single manager does when he takes up the job at a new club. Adding to that, none of us know about the contribution the backroom staff make, it's just guesswork.

Why not, IIRC Carlos Queiroz was Manager of South Africa, Real Madrid before joining as Asst Manager (second time) for ManUtd, same with Rene. He was manager of some club before joining as Coach at ManUtd.

Not saying it's going to happen but this has happened few times. Latest was Di Matteo joining AVB as Asst Manager.

Giggsy11

So the manager of ManUtd even when Fergie was there couldn't last half a season at Fulham.

Shame he couldn't see that coming as easily as ManUtd tactics..

DM_7

Nuts102 wrote: »

Would you get an established player for the Barkley money of course you would.

You would also probably pick up two young similar talented players for the same money. I think Barkley has potential but he has had two bad injuries already at such a young age, his best performances have been in a position we don't need and his performances have been overhyped. Similar to a young Anderson except Anderson had proved more and had more potential.

I don't want Barkley for that price personally which is why I referenced Witsel. But what elite, or as you had world class, player are going to be got for 25 to 30 million? With the way transfers have gone I would be expecting 40plus. Unless there is a contract issue which reduces the fee.

Without champions league I think a younger player might need to be signed, a player who wouldn't mind missing out on champions league. Vidal for example is at an age where his any move would be with the intention of winning the big prize that appears out of reach at Juve.

Hococop

No

I'd like to see René come back but I've a feeling he won't out of pride.

KH25

No

Hococop wrote: »

I'd like to see René come back but I've a feeling he won't out of pride.

Would there even be a point in him coming back? As people have said already, Moyes does a lot of the work Rene used to do. So what would be there for him?

kryogen

Moyes could piss off and focus on defense and let Rene focus on attack

LiamoSail

Whatever about bringing his own people in, I think a bigger issue is who he brought in. Giggs and Neville are two of seven (at a guess) coaches. Neither have any coaching experience, are known as not being all that bright, and are in a situation whereby they have to transcend from being perceived by the players as a peer, to more of an authority.

In replacing the old guard I'd have thought more experience was required. I can see a logic in appointing either Neville or Giggs, but both in a team of seven is too much IMO

Paul Tergat

LiamoSail wrote: »

Whatever about bringing his own people in, I think a bigger issue is who he brought in. Giggs and Neville are two of seven (at a guess) coaches. Neither have any coaching experience, are known as not being all that bright, and are in a situation whereby they have to transcend from being perceived by the players as a peer, to more of an authority.

In replacing the old guard I'd have thought more experience was required. I can see a logic in appointing either Neville or Giggs, but both in a team of seven is too much IMO

LiamoSail

Paul Tergat wrote: »

Neville has never come across as all that intelligent in interviews, the yes/no thing on MUTV being an example. Regarding Giggs, I was a bit surprised at the time, but think it was David May saying Giggs was the dumbest person he'd ever played with, or word to that effect.

I'm not saying either are thick, just that neither seem the brightest. I'd imagine the step up to a coaching role would be easier for players like Sholskjaer or VdS, players who seem relatively intelligent

keane2097

No

This staff thing still rumbling along makes me lol.

Does nobody remember how **** to watch United were since 09?

lordgoat

No

LiamoSail wrote: »

Neville has never come across as all that intelligent in interviews, the yes/no thing on MUTV being an example. Regarding Giggs, I was a bit surprised at the time, but think it was David May saying Giggs was the dumbest person he'd ever played with, or word to that effect.

I'm not saying either are thick, just that neither seem the brightest. I'd imagine the step up to a coaching role would be easier for players like Sholskjaer or VdS, players who seem relatively intelligent

David May said that? I doubt it. I think you haven't a clue what you're talking about.

Giggs and Neville have both coached for years. Giggs has been taking first team sessions for years. This year is the first time he has to do it on a regular basis. Being a player that is widely renowned for intelligently prolonging his playing career by utilising a vast array of modern and traditional methods I think he will make an excellent coach if he brings that to the table. Now I haven't heard David May mention it so I won't take it as gospel just yet.


Phil Neville always comes across very well in interview imo, and is one of the more articulate on twitter.

KH25

No

Latest United Uncovered discusses who could be the next captain. They list Fletch, Rooney, Evans, Jones and De Gea. Haven't gone through it all myself but IMO, of those 5, its gonna be Rooney. Can see Jones getting it in the future, or even Evans, but not now.

Rayne Wooney

I'm surprised Moyes took them to Dubai instead of a Rocky training camp somewhere in Russia

LiamoSail

lordgoat wrote: »

David May said that? I doubt it. I think you haven't a clue what you're talking about.

David May was on soccer am a few weeks ago and in a light hearted interview was asked who was the dumbest player he knew, or words to that effect, and he answered Giggs. As I said, I was a bit surprised by that.

Giggs and Neville have both coached for years. Giggs has been taking first team sessions for years. This year is the first time he has to do it on a regular basis. Being a player that is widely renowned for intelligently prolonging his playing career by utilising a vast array of modern and traditional methods I think he will make an excellent coach if he brings that to the table. Now I haven't heard David May mention it so I won't take it as gospel just yet.


Phil Neville always comes across very well in interview imo, and is one of the more articulate on twitter.

I don't follow Neville on twitter, but have always thought he came across as a bit dim. I don't follow United or Everton though, so I certainly wouldn't have heard him speak as much as those that do. In that famous yes/no interview, he certainly comes across as the stereotypical dumb footballer

While I wasn't aware of Giggs taking sessions previously, I would agree with you regarding his potential as a coach, hence why I was surprised with what May said.

My point is general however I believe is still valid. Having two such inexperienced coaches in what is a small coaching team is risky, particularly as both would be seen by the players as peers. I'm not claiming it to be the cause of United's poor season, just observing that perhaps Moyes would have been better served had he opted for greater experience in at least one of the role's