Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod Warning: Post #7871

KombuchaMshroom

No

bangkok wrote: »

And IMO world class players to play for united last 5-10 years without any doubt......

Ronaldo
Rooney
Van persie
Rio
Vidic
Evra
Van der Saar
Scholes
Mata
Carrick
De gea
Van nistelrooy
Roy keane

bangkok wrote: »

And if Louis Saha wasn't so injury prone I would put him there as well, when he was fit he was brilliant to watch

This reminds me of a Louis CK sketch, where he talks about how we go straight for the top shelf of words and how that is starting to devalue the true meaning of those words now.

http://zenpencils.com/comic/95-louis-c-k-we-dont-think-about-how-we-talk/

Seriously, Carrick world class without any doubt, and Saha would be too if he wasn't so injury prone?
I have always thought Saha could have been a great player for us if he hadn't be injured too, but that's it, great, not world class, a long way from it.

Same goes for Carrick, at his very best he can be very good and effective, but that is it. If we are going to start classifying the likes of Carrick as world class then we are going to have to come up with a new term for the likes of Xavi Iniesta Cesc Scholes etc. because otherwise we are undermining how truly class they are/were by who we are associating them with.

Iused2likebusts

No

No question england should have built many a team around having scholes in the centre of the park and not shunted their best passer out to the left. However regarding carrick the judgement of sven, hodgson, mclaren and capello is surely a better indicator than a selection of people on boards. Id personally prefer wilshire, gerrard and barry in the middle of the park over carrick. Last season he started a few games for england and his form probably merited that but in general throughout his career he hasnt been quite good enough for that level.
Thats only breaking into englands midfield never mind being world class( which in fairness most dont think he was/is)

Vinz Mesrine

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

No question england should have built many a team around having scholes in the centre of the park and not shunted their best passer out to the left. However regarding carrick the judgement of sven, hodgson, mclaren and capello is surely a better indicator than a selection of people on boards. Id personally prefer wilshire, gerrard and barry in the middle of the park over carrick. Last season he started a few games for england and his form probably merited that but in general throughout his career he hasnt been quite good enough for that level.
Thats only breaking into englands midfield never mind being world class( which in fairness most dont think he was/is)

With the form of Henderson, Carrick might not even make the squad this summer.

bmcc10

Vinz Mesrine wrote: »

With the form of Henderson, Carrick might not even make the squad this summer.

You think Henderson is that good? Having a good season no doubt but i feel it's more his energy suiting Lpool than his ability.

Vinz Mesrine

bmcc10 wrote: »

You think Henderson is that good? Having a good season no doubt but i feel it's more his energy suiting Lpool than his ability.

He is having a great season and the energy you mentioned is the main reason I think he will be on the plane to Brazil, someone like him could be essential in those kinds of temperatures.

bucketybuck

No

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

However regarding carrick the judgement of sven, hodgson, mclaren and capello is surely a better indicator than a selection of people on boards.

Yeah, England managers have made a lot of mistakes over the last decade but that doesn't mean that a lot of experienced, decorated managers were idiots for not picking Carrick.

mada999

bren2001 wrote: »

Just to clarify for me here. You are saying that if Rooney has a good WC he will leave United? Assuming the contract is signed this week, what would be his motivation to uproot his family and move to another country? Especially when he will be pulling in 300k a week, which no other club will match.

I gotta laugh at all these "professional" footballers. They always talk about playing football and winning trophies is the only thing that drives them. I call BS..

Rooney has won enough at UTD to leave and be happy winning trophies elsewhere.. If he only stays because he's gonna be on 300k a week that is a joke...

Rooney (and the rest of these "pro's") are already very wealthy men, like how much money do they actually want?! Playing football as a top player is a relatively short span of time.

Fair enough if he wants to stay and get UTD back into the Champs league (if they don't qualify this season), but staying because of cash is cop out and being afraid do it else where if you ask me...

Your Airbag

Carrick has been UTDs best MF for about three seasons. Very reliable and very good but thats only our best MF. His competition has been Cleverly, Fletch and an aging ginger genius.

I'm thankful for Carricks service but if UTD were to have a MF to match their status as a football club, that stauts being one of the top four clubs in world football in terms of prestige, then Carrick, Fletch and Cleverly wouldn't get a look in.

Edit: I meant wouldn't get a look, wouldn't. D'oh.

Your Airbag

So its officially been agreed between UTD and Inter that Vidic will join them.

It looks like Vidic will bag 3.5m in the move as there is no tranfer fee, thats 60k a week.

I'm really happy for Vidic and delighted he is getting one last pay day and some time in the sun. He will get a super reception if he ever comes back to UTD and if he was offered a coaching position it would be great.

I imagine one guy might be weary of the deal though

Vic Vinegar

United scouts have apparently watched William Carvalho from Sporting Lisbon twelve times this season.

Haven't seen much of him myself so not sure.

brinty

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

United scouts have apparently watched William Carvalho from Sporting Lisbon twelve times this season.

Haven't seen much of him myself so not sure.

Apparently Nani is his favourite player... Nani get talking to him....

Giggsy11

TheDoc wrote: »

Carricks role and duties are pretty much overlooked, as are players like him all over. It's about the most "unsexy" role in football.

Oddly enough, you could in an very ebstract discussion, argue that Cleverly has been somewhat replicating Carricks role this year, and in some cases, doing it better. I know that's going to get lashed out of for it. But people need to understand Carricks role and function, to appreciate what it does for the team.
And from that, you can somewhat compare what cleverly has been doing, and see it's somewhat similar, but somewhat better with his interceptions and disruption of play.

I'm not even going to attempt to go into detail via text explaining it, I'll make a balls of it, but someone like Pro.F, mikey etc. might be able to outline Carrick specifically and what he does. I think ANY debate, discussion and critque of Carrick falls flat on its arse quickly, because 3/4 of people do not understand his function.

I would, however, not to be suprised to see him as one of the surplus to requirements players. As shocking as that might sound. Carrick provides a base/foundation to provide for someone else, to then act as the launch platform for an attack, I think Moyes, if he had his way, want's that launch to happen quicker and from the midfield, rather then from one of his wingers/strikers.

It's not fast enough, thing's don't explode anymore. I'm not saying it's his fault, we don't have that explosive CM, we have midfielders who are more controlled and slower in what they do.

Never going to happen..

LuckyLloyd

No

jaykay74 wrote: »

Its like a conveyor belt of them in here these days.

They'll all vanish when ye start winning matches consistently again. I speak from experience on this point.

bucketybuck

No

brinty wrote: »

Apparently Nani is his favourite player... Nani get talking to him....

I'm not sure thats a good idea...

IamtheWalrus

Your Airbag wrote: »

So its officially been agreed between UTD and Inter that Vidic will join them.

Source?

Mitch Connor

No

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

Source?

Whatever about a source - why the hell would there need to be an official agreement between United and Inter - Vidic is out of contract in the summer, he can do whatever the hell he wants.

Leftist

No

brinty wrote: »

Apparently Nani is his favourite player... Nani get talking to him....

yeah I'm sure nani isn't the best person to ask to sell the club tbh.

anyone think moyes has turned a corner since the arsenal game?

Too Tough To Die

brinty wrote: »

Apparently Nani is his favourite player... Nani get talking to him....

Nani is nobodies favourite player.

IamtheWalrus

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Whatever about a source - why the hell would there need to be an official agreement between United and Inter - Vidic is out of contract in the summer, he can do whatever the hell he wants.

Would Utd let him join Liverpool? :eek:

Lucas Hood

No

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

Would Utd let him join Liverpool? :eek:

They'd have no say.

Your Airbag

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

Source?

Mitch is right, should have phrased it better. Vidic has chosen Inter rather than UTD and will sign a two-year contract worth €3 million (potentially rising to €3.5m) per year and UTD are happy not to offer him a new contract.

http://www.goal.com/en/news/596/exclusive/2014/02/17/4625477/vidic-agrees-inter-switch?ICID=CP_2

TheDoc

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

Would Utd let him join Liverpool? :eek:

Comes across the sort of player that values loyalty and legacy. Don't think he would tarnish his United one by joining Liverpool.

No disrespect to Liverpool, but he is of a stature to join pretty much any title contending team in Europe, and I'd imagine he will go to one of them.

bangkok

vidic said all along he would never play for another premier league team

Vinz Mesrine

bangkok wrote: »

vidic said all along he would never play for another premier league team

He's signing for Liverpool, we're gonna turn him into an attacking midfielder.

bangkok

you cant teach an old dog new tricks..

Vinz Mesrine

bangkok wrote: »

you cant teach an old dog new tricks..

Nah, it's gonna work for Reus in central midfield so anything is possible.

bangkok

hes 24, not saying it will happen but he could easily play as an attacking midfielder

Vinz Mesrine

bangkok wrote: »

hes 24, not saying it will happen but he could easily play as an attacking midfielder

He does play as an attacking midfielder, surely in your 20+ years of playing and being involved in football you know the difference between that and a central midfielder.

bangkok

I meant attacking midfielder from a deep position....... easily done for a player of his quality

Vinz Mesrine

bangkok wrote: »

I meant attacking midfielder from a deep position....... easily done for a player of his quality

I like you

Courtesy Flush

No

bangkok wrote: »

vidic said all along he would never play for another premier league team

Players say a lot of things

bangkok

heres a list of players off the top of my head that have changed positions during their careers and excelled....

Bale....left back-most expensive attacking midfielder in the world
Yaya Toure.... defensive midfielder-one of the best box-box midfielders in the world
Henry.....crap winger-world class striker
lothar mattheus...midfielder--best sweeper in the world
dion Dublin.....defender-striker
mascherano...midfielder---centre back
and I will finish with phil Neville....right/left back..... midfielder

Skylinehead

bangkok wrote: »

I meant attacking midfielder from a deep position....... easily done for a player of his quality

Why though?

IK09

Your Airbag wrote: »

So its officially been agreed between UTD and Inter that Vidic will join them.

It looks like Vidic will bag 3.5m in the move as there is no tranfer fee, thats 60k a week.

I'm really happy for Vidic and delighted he is getting one last pay day and some time in the sun. He will get a super reception if he ever comes back to UTD and if he was offered a coaching position it would be great.

I imagine one guy might be weary of the deal though

On what basis would you give him a coaching role?

Vinz Mesrine

bangkok wrote: »

heres a list of players off the top of my head that have changed positions during their careers and excelled....

Bale....left back-most expensive attacking midfielder in the world
Yaya Toure.... defensive midfielder-one of the best box-box midfielders in the world
Henry.....crap winger-world class striker
lothar mattheus...midfielder--best sweeper in the world
dion Dublin.....defender-striker
mascherano...midfielder---centre back
and I will finish with phil Neville....right/left back..... midfielder

Dion Dublin????????? Really? Of all the players you could have mentioned, you use Dion Dublin hahahahaha

bangkok

just because he played for united..... Would you rather I use Ronaldo?? Turned for a tricky winger into one of the the finest goalscoring machines the world has ever seen

Your Airbag

IK09 wrote: »

On what basis would you give him a coaching role?

On the basis that he is imo the best CB UTD ever had and in terms of positioning himself in our penalty area and cutting out danger he was excellent. Also his attitude was always top notch and the fact that Rio and Evans used to improve a lot simply by playing next to him.

Vinz Mesrine

Oh god, I didn't even notice Phil Neville.

Will I Amnt

No

Vinz Mesrine wrote: »

Oh god, I didn't even notice Phil Neville.

What's your problem?
Phil Neville and Dion Dublin both ended up playing a different role than they started out in. Why pick out the 2 that played for United over anybody else?

Vinz Mesrine

Will I Amnt wrote: »

What's your problem?
Phil Neville and Dion Dublin both ended up playing a different role than they started out in. Why pick out the 2 that played for United over anybody else?

Of all the players he listed, they were the 2 who didn't "excel".

Will I Amnt

No

Vinz Mesrine wrote: »

Of all the players he listed, they were the 2 who didn't "excel".

They made decent careers for themselves, I didn't notice he said excel tbh but given the standard of player they were before changing, they didn't do too badly.

Vinz Mesrine

Will I Amnt wrote: »

They made decent careers for themselves, I didn't notice he said excel tbh but given the standard of player they were before changing, they didn't do too badly.

Decent careers I'd agree with. They certainly didn't excel though.
For instance I'd have Gareth Barry and Jamie Carragher ahead of Dublin and Neville as players who changed positions and excelled.

beno619

No

bangkok wrote: »

heres a list of players off the top of my head that have changed positions during their careers and excelled....

Bale....left back-most expensive attacking midfielder in the world Very common transition as is LW - LB see coentrao, Rose.
Yaya Toure.... defensive midfielder-one of the best box-box midfielders in the world Allways a box to box player, was restricted at Barca.
Henry.....crap winger-world class striker Good winger in France, with gaolscoring being his main attribute.
lothar mattheus...midfielder--best sweeper in the world
dion Dublin.....defender-striker
mascherano...midfielder---centre back Crap CB.
and I will finish with phil Neville....right/left back..... midfielder

Always a utility man.

bullvine

No

I am pretty sure Paul Ince played a lot of his early games for United as a rightback as well

tallaghtmick

No

IK09 wrote: »

On what basis would you give him a coaching role?

Let him become the crossing coach......

Cantona's Collars

Cleverley could be heading to Spurs,not sure about the link but every cloud & all that.

http://www.footballdirectnews.com/premier-league-news/40846-manchester-united-news-boss-plans-big-clear-out.php#.UwNDL_sX7gE

Mitch Connor

No

bullvine wrote: »

I am pretty sure Paul Ince played a lot of his early games for United as a rightback as well

no, that was Paul Parker

Vinz Mesrine

Mitch Connor wrote: »

no, that was Paul Parker

Is that a term of endearment?

bullvine

No

Mitch Connor wrote: »

no, that was Paul Parker

Ha.. No Ince did, definitely. Pretty sure thats were he played in the 1990 cup final..

bangkok

phil Neville had a very good career with everton and who can forget the day he bossed Patrick Vieria against arsenal at old Trafford winning man if the match as well