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Lord TSC

Seaneh wrote: »

Any interest in Kolarov for Ramirez?

Keep reading the thread

Colemania

I'm going to leave 88 rated Arouca go for cash to an external just in case anyone wants him.

Probably gonna leave biabiany too if he doesn't get a rise in the next few weeks

Lord TSC

Woohoo! Taarbat gets a +1 to 88. Makes him better cover for next season.

Iago

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

While I think a manager has the right to pull out of a deal at any time, I'd be really p!ssed if someone was causing transfers to collapse

I think that up until you reach final agreement, everything is open to negotiation and ultimately saying "it's not for me"

However if you say to me, "If you want this player you have to give me x+y for a deal" and I agree to do so, then you should go ahead with the deal.

Similarly if you actually agree a deal, and submit it and have it accepted, you shouldn't cancel it before the goes through the system.

Simple things like honour, ethics and honesty.

Having said that.......


It's just a game, and people are free to play in the game in any way they want. However if I'm in a game where I have to deal with people on the outside of deals persuading the other person not to go through with it (in at least 1 of the 3 cases the advice was given by a manager who had a bid for the same player turned down in favor of the other deal) and deal with people who don't keep their word, even if their intention is good rather than malicious, well I'm free too.

I'm free to decide that I'm not going to put my time into it anymore. That it's more effort than it's worth, and ultimately that I can find a better way to occupy myself

I don't think any of the managers who have pulled out deals have done so maliciously. I believe that each of them fully intended to do the deal, and then changed their minds (outside influence or not)

That doesn't change the fact that that while the above may be very melodramatic, I have no interest in continuing on in the game.

The game is only enjoyable if there is good banter between people in it, that includes sometimes being on the wrong side of a deal and taking a ribbing for it (although "the wrong side" is completely subjective)

Colemania

Do they do these rating reviews division by division or a handful of teams from a division at a time? It just seems the latest serie a review only includes Milan, Torino and Hellas Verona players

Lord TSC

Colemania wrote: »

Do they do these rating reviews division by division or a handful of teams from a division at a time? It just seems the latest serie a review only includes Milan, Torino and Hellas Verona players

I think they'll spread each division over two or three days, so chances are the other Italian teams will be looked at in the next few days.

KERSPLAT!

@Iago that's fair enough. Sad to lose a good manager

phobia2011

According to reports, Zlatan Ibrahimovic is in Manchester for talks

bazarakus

Iago wrote: »

I think that up until you reach final agreement, everything is open to negotiation and ultimately saying "it's not for me"

However if you say to me, "If you want this player you have to give me x+y for a deal" and I agree to do so, then you should go ahead with the deal.

Similarly if you actually agree a deal, and submit it and have it accepted, you shouldn't cancel it before the goes through the system.

Simple things like honour, ethics and honesty.

Having said that.......


It's just a game, and people are free to play in the game in any way they want. However if I'm in a game where I have to deal with people on the outside of deals persuading the other person not to go through with it (in at least 1 of the 3 cases the advice was given by a manager who had a bid for the same player turned down in favor of the other deal) and deal with people who don't keep their word, even if their intention is good rather than malicious, well I'm free too.

I'm free to decide that I'm not going to put my time into it anymore. That it's more effort than it's worth, and ultimately that I can find a better way to occupy myself

I don't think any of the managers who have pulled out deals have done so maliciously. I believe that each of them fully intended to do the deal, and then changed their minds (outside influence or not)

That doesn't change the fact that that while the above may be very melodramatic, I have no interest in continuing on in the game.

The game is only enjoyable if there is good banter between people in it, that includes sometimes being on the wrong side of a deal and taking a ribbing for it (although "the wrong side" is completely subjective)

Man you wouldn't last too long in some of the other leagues on here! One fella was selling Benzema to a manager. Rival manager contacts seller AFTER the bid has been accepted and convinces him to canx the deal and sell to him instead. Very low down sneaky tactics. Some time later the losing buyer had last laughs when Benzema dropped in rating and he went on to win a title. The scupperer hasn't won a title since. Stick around. Deals/schmeals.

Beefy78

phobia2011 wrote: »

Rumblings regarding shakthar transfer policy!

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

So I've heard

ctrl-alt-delete wrote: »

That is the danger with those type of deals, I am not going to comment on any individual or individual deal,

But shame on anybody who thrashes out a deal like the one mentioned and then pulls out when some parts have already been completed.

This is nonsense. He got three players for Rossi FFS.

eireannBEAR wrote: »

Srna 91

Ronaldinho 90 [want him after a previous positive experience]

Morata 87 Real madrid.

For Rossi,

Im happy i feel it will keep me up and morata is a cert to rise,he will be one of the best in europe... Thoughts on the deal lads? im aware some might think im mad.

Seaneh wrote: »

Yeah it's bad form alright. If monitoring was still on someone could report the original deal and get it reversed but alas we were conned into turning it off.

I did report the original deal (which isn't the one above) asking for it to be cancelled.

Peanut Butter Jelly

What about the Balzaretti deal...?

Beefy78

The "deal" was Damaio & Balzaretti for Fernandinho & Adriano. EB insisted on doing the Fernandinho part first - I like to think for another reason other than that he knew that there was a limit of three transfers per season between clubs. Either way the deal couldn't be completed leaving me down my best player for the entire season.

Adriano is my reserve striker. I can give him up and it isn't a big deal to me but I don't see why I should have to. Balzaretti is on borrowed time as a 90 and I knew that at the time but figured I'd shore up my defence for a promotion bid. Now three months later and it is a completely different situation.

I'm more than happy to reverse the Fernandinho for Damiao part of the deal. Not a problem there. He won't want that though because he knows that he has got a 91-rated player due an increase for a 90 rated striker who could well drop down soon. And yet somehow I've screwed him.

Wilberto

Beefy78 wrote: »

The "deal" was Damaio & Balzaretti for Fernandinho & Adriano. EB insisted on doing the Fernandinho part first - I like to think for another reason other than that he knew that there was a limit of three transfers per season between clubs. Either way the deal couldn't be completed leaving me down my best player for the entire season.

Adriano is my reserve striker. I can give him up and it isn't a big deal to me but I don't see why I should have to. Balzaretti is on borrowed time as a 90 and I knew that at the time but figured I'd shore up my defence for a promotion bid. Now three months later and it is a completely different situation.

I'm more than happy to reverse the Fernandinho for Damiao part of the deal. Not a problem there. He won't want that though because he knows that he has got a 01-rated player due an increase for a 90 rated striker who could well drop down soon. And yet somehow I've screwed him.

...and so the plot thickens........ :pac:

I knew there had to be some logical reason behind this 'story' though. I know I've never had any dealings with you but you don't strike me as the type of manager to just pull out of deals on a whim.


I'm not going to take sides or anything. I'm just saying that this situation was never going to be as clear cut as it first seemed when the 'story' broke!

Seaneh

Imho the story is still the same. They agreed a deal,they started the deal and then shakhtar threw the toys out of the pram and refused to honour the deal.

It's bad form no matter what way you look at it.

Beefy78

There's three options here:
1) Reverse the deal
2) Leave things as they are
3) Swap Adriano (89) for Balzaretti (90).

If the consensus on here is that I should do no.3 then I will do because I don't want to be seen as having screwed someone over. But I don't see how 3 is reasonable considering that the original deal collapsed and clearly any deal for season four is in a completely different context than a deal at the start of season three was.

I don't really want to be having these conversations in public but I guess there's no choice when he is bitching about me behind my back and saying nonsense like that he got no one for Rossi.

Honestly lads, it is just a game.

JamboMac

Got a few offers for hunterlaar but to pry him from my hands I need a good cb and dm. Future players are only useful if it's this turn of the century.

Beefy78

Seaneh wrote: »

Imho the story is still the same. They agreed a deal,they started the deal and then shakhtar threw the toys out of the pram and refused to honour the deal.

It's bad form no matter what way you look at it.

The deal collapsed because there's a limit to the number of transfers you can do between clubs. The deal was never supposed to stretch into two season.

Peanut Butter Jelly

Beefy78 wrote: »

I don't really want to be having these conversations in public but I guess there's no choice when he is bitching about me behind my back and saying nonsense like that he got no one for Rossi.

I can't really see how it was behind your back. He posted it on the news wall on soccermanager and it was even mentioned on boards

Beefy78 wrote: »

The deal collapsed because there's a limit to the number of transfers you can do between clubs. The deal was never supposed to stretch into two season.

As far as I can tell, a deal was agreed? I think it should be honoured in all honesty.

Beefy78

The deal was NEVER that he'd get my best player for half a season and then we'd complete the transfer the next season.

Beefy78

Peanut Butter Jelly wrote: »

I can't really see how it was behind your back. He posted it on the news wall on soccermanager and it was even mentioned on boards

My apologies, I thought the comments here were before he'd posted on the news wall.

Peanut Butter Jelly

Beefy78 wrote: »

The deal was NEVER that he'd get my best player for half a season and then we'd complete the transfer the next season.

The deal was Damiao and Balzaretti for Fernandinho and Adriano. A limit on transfer deals meant the second half had to be put on hold. Surely a deal is a deal?

Lord TSC

@Iago

I'd hope you change your mind about leaving; everyone will have a list of people at this stage they avoid when doing deals, that's the nature of a game where 50+ people are negotiating and doing deals. There'll always be a few people who think differently and act differently. But leaving altogether seems to be equivlent of going gay cause one or two women were idiots. Plenty of other fish in the sea in fairness.

@Beefy

Out of interest, had any discussions about said transfer taken place between the deal falling through a few months back and this week? Is it a case of miscommunications where one side obviously thought "This deal ends there then, I guess" and the other thought "We'll do it next transfer window", but that neither side actually agreed with the others view?

If something like that had happened me, on either side, I'd have been asking "Listen, is it ok to do X or Y?", especially if it fell through last season...

Beefy78

Not when it isn't a deal. There was never any mention of the second half being put on hold - had there been then it wouldn't have been completed.

That's my own fault for not knowing the rules. I think he didn't know the rules either. IMHO he owes me a massive favour in the transfer market now.

Peanut Butter Jelly

Beefy78 wrote: »

Not when it isn't a deal. There was never any mention of the second half being put on hold - had there been then it wouldn't have been completed.

That's my own fault for not knowing the rules. I think he didn't know the rules either. IMHO he owes me a massive favour in the transfer market now.

But is was an outside factor that meant the transfer was put on hold, not eb and not you. You can't blame eb for that.

Beefy78

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

@Beefy

Out of interest, had any discussions about said transfer taken place between the deal falling through a few months back and this week? Is it a case of miscommunications where one side obviously thought "This deal ends there then, I guess" and the other thought "We'll do it next transfer window", but that neither side actually agreed with the others view?

If something like that had happened me, on either side, I'd have been asking "Listen, is it ok to do X or Y?", especially if it fell through last season...

I said straight away that I expected him to make the deal up to me next season. EB, to his credit, tried to broker some deals with third parties to get me a defender and get himself a striker but nothing could work out properly. I think we both knew that we were going to need to talk again at the end of the season but I certainly wasn't expecting to need to go through with the Adriano swap.

If the deal had collapsed because he hadn't got enough money there'd be no commitment to completing it when he had the extra cash. The whole thing should have been reversed at the time.

Look, as I said if people think the 'deal' should be completed then I'll complete it. That's fine with me. I don't think it is reasonable but I always think the five page dramas over here about one transfer or other are completely off-putting to new players and I don't want to be a party to that.

Beefy78

Peanut Butter Jelly wrote: »

But is was an outside factor that meant the transfer was put on hold, not eb and not you. You can't blame eb for that.

The transfer wasn't put on hold. It collapsed.

Hercule Poirot

Beefy78 wrote: »

Not when it isn't a deal. There was never any mention of the second half being put on hold - had there been then it wouldn't have been completed.

That's my own fault for not knowing the rules. I think he didn't know the rules either. IMHO he owes me a massive favour in the transfer market now.

Was the plan not to complete the deal next season regardless no? That was the understanding all round - you can't pull out now just because the last bit of the transfer doesn't work in your favour - either go through with it or reverse the WHOLE transfer

Beefy78

If that was the plan then we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I'm more than happy to reverse the whole transfer.

Wilberto

......and this, Ladies and Gentlemen, is why I don't do over complicated deals.





That, and the fact that I have no players that are of any worth to anyone else!! :P

Seaneh

You've been acting like a child over this since it happened. You blocked him several times, other managers have had to as go betweens because you wouldn't respond to his messages. You know you're in the wrong and unrepentant for it. It's too late now anyway as he took your latest hisshy fit as the end of it and traded the player in question with someone else. You got two of his first team players and then reneged on your side of the deal.