SoccerManager.com (#3) The Boards.ie World

The Governor

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

Sure fire up another poll I suppose? Would like a mod to do it and for them to make it a allow buying from unmanaged or no, do not allow, instead of 5 or 6 different options

I'd be happy to fire a yes/no one up, as long tho as Mac sends out a GW PM to direct lads to vote.

Seaneh put up a poll a few days ago and it only 19 votes, now say another 10 that didn't vote due to the stifling, thats just under 50% of the GW managers.

Now a few more may pop along in a week, but it shows a lot of lads don't check the forum often, as I said before if club applications are advertised via GW PM, then votes (whether this or a login poll) should be too as its taken theres lads that don't check in here. Some lads stopped popping in due to the fighting, others may have tough jobs and only check SM for 5min on their lunch break and have no time for a internet forum, it's how most people are tbf.

Now like tonic, tupac and jimmy I'd support the yes side. Here's my take. A lot of lads have left and I think its also due to the difficulty of getting in good players. Take a look at the TL, Ajax and Juve are the only managed ones selling for cash. You could say Ajax are the only ones selling realistically decent players for a small team, two 88's. All 89 & up are p/e (even my own but its the way the world economy unfortunately)

Take West Brom for example, there's a big balance there and they have maybe 3 players worth p/eing. If you took over and wanted to improve you'd have to ship of their 3 best lads and buy a few 88's, where are they then gonna get 89 and above with cash?

Now I do get you're point when lads say they can uncover young gems and use them, thats grand, but some of us have time to scout loads of players while other might not. Do ye want a GW thats mostly filled or a half empty one with only lads that have time to research players?

Anyone thats doesn't know I took over FC Basel who had been stripped and this was my experience:

I took over FC Basel a few months ago, the highest rated player remaining was an 86. Due to the sold players I was left with a decent kitty which I then used to snap up some 87's to improve the team. I knuckled down and got to work.

I found it next to impossible to buy the likes of 88's from managed clubs and any players they had listed as the prices were astronomical compared to a players value, there were a few times I almost quit cause I found the gulf between a players value and actual sale price absolutely crazy.

The only reason I've even managed to build my club up someways is the fact I was given two 88's for their value price. The only reason I have two 89's + a bunch of other 88's is the fact I bought them for around their value from clubs which had become unmanaged, compared to probably paying two to three times the value if it was from a managed club. I have looked at externals and their aren't that many 89 players there, there are some 88's but you have to take into account their ratings and how they are playing in RL. A lot of those 88's are close to droppping to 87's meaning a newbie manager is taking a serious risk purchasing especially if their kitty is small.

Going by the current player price economy if a small team wants to upgrade to a decent 88 or 89 they will most likely have sell a bunch of 86 and 87's, usually only externals will buy those and won't go too much over their value price, leaving them with a small squad and little return. Say I sold Charlie Adam rated 87 now for his value of 6m, would that get me a decent 88 at a managed club? Would it fcuk, unless he was playing crap and due a drop ratings wise. Even now there's a player listed valued 4.5m with a minimum fee of 15m, that's not a go at the manager as it's the same with nearly every deal.

The majority of talented youngsters and players deemed worthy for p/x deals are already at big clubs so it's essentlially a moot point doing p/x deals if your not a big team here.

I get the fact about someone taking over a raided club but there's always money there to bring in a few players and then they in turn can pick up one or two decent lads from a manger less team.

Now a reply I got on that thread was if buying from unmnaged was off, you wouldn't need to rebuild, however remember it was already off for a season or two and lots clubs were stripped, however it also allowed for rebuilding from unmanaged clubs. See if it was on from day 1 it would be grand, but the horse has bolted imo.

If I were still at FC Basel after it got turned on where would I have got players? I was lucky that I got to move to Bremen and had some good players to swap.

AT the end of the day I don't care whether a vote would pass or not, but I can guarantee it's going to end up with a lot of managers leaving, mostly new lads unless they are lucky enough to get a team with lots of good p/e potential, which lets face it won't happen as more established lads will apply.

See the way I see it there's only a few options to correct this:

1. Lads start selling for cash around a players value, has been tried and no one will do it as your most likely fecked if others don't follow suit.

2. Squad caps, meaning more young prospects available and spread out, caps can't be enforced.

3. Allow buy from unmanaged, lads out bidding each other to get good players, leaving a sizable kitty and in return new manager using it to buy from other unmanaged and pick up a few decent players the rare time a big club says feck it I'll help the newbie out. I've done it, tonics done it and we've explained our experiences, him more so as look at the Kiev squad he made from nothing.

Seaneh

But the managers who comes in and have 40 million to spend has nobody to spend it on because all the best players get hoovered up by the rich clubs.

KERSPLAT!

Seaneh wrote: »

But the managers who comes in and have 40 million to spend has nobody to spend it on because all the best players get hoovered up by the rich clubs.

Like me... :P

/rubs hands

GT_TDI_150

Firstly, I'm sure I've moved on plenty players for cash .... (where's my mention )

(how do you check your transfers from previous seasons?)

Secondly, I checked the top transfers from last season in the GW and most of them are ... cash deals ....

The Governor

Seaneh wrote: »

But the managers who comes in and have 40 million to spend has nobody to spend it on because all the best players get hoovered up by the rich clubs.

How come they hadn't all been hoovered up for the time before, during and after I was at FC Basel for instance? While it was off.

I do get your point and concern, but as it stands you have all these clubs, Like W. Brom, Hannover, São Paulo FC, etc. How are they gonna get good 89's and up? S Paulo would have to trade their couple best players and could not get anything better in return.

See I get the rich clubs will buy em point, however, what about the clubs like above that can't improve? I don't mean the Bragas, I mean ones that were managed and left but don't have prospects or young 89+ lads.

At least when it was off lads could pick up a few near cost like myself and other lads did and mostly got to keep what small handful off good players we had in the process.

The Governor

GT_TDI_150 wrote: »

Firstly, I'm sure I've moved on plenty players for cash .... (where's my mention )

(how do you check your transfers from previous seasons?)

Secondly, I checked the top transfers from last season in the GW and most of them are ... cash deals ....

Ah but how many of them were parts of bigger deals my good man Like one 93 direct swapped for a 91 and a 90 for 25m after type of thing.

The Governor

Anyway as I said thats just my opinion, will I throw up the poll ta feck?

GT_TDI_150

Young Belgium were still too hung-over to put in a decent performance ...


Belgium 2 - 1 USA was unable to prevent a FC Porto defeat to US Palermo.
FC Porto slumped to a 2 - 0 defeat to US Palermo in their Friendly fixture.

Peanut Butter Jelly

How anyone can say they need over 100 players in their squad to play the game is beyond me. And I know they'll say it's investment in the future and "sure all the big clubs buy up all the good players". But do they not realise they are buying up all the players?

I have no problem with people buying youth players, not in the slightest, but there has to be a limit.

The Governor

Poll is up lads http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057241856

Mac can you please send out a GW PM with the link so every manager gets a chance to vote?

GT_TDI_150

I'm sure you cant pm links on SM

ctrl-alt-delete

Peanut Butter Jelly wrote: »

How anyone can say they need over 100 players in their squad to play the game is beyond me. And I know they'll say it's investment in the future and "sure all the big clubs buy up all the good players". But do they not realise they are buying up all the players?

I have no problem with people buying youth players, not in the slightest, but there has to be a limit.

Are you back managing again yet?

The Governor

GT_TDI_150 wrote: »

I'm sure you cant pm links on SM

Well I suppose maybe just direct them to the forum maybe so in that case

The Governor

Lads btw, for any of you who are registered on the SM forum, I started a thread in the improvement requests forum about introducing squad caps as an option for custom GWs. Could ye please just reply in the thread and say you'd like to see this added or a simple +1.

The more that back it the better chance it has!

Link here

Peanut Butter Jelly

ctrl-alt-delete wrote: »

Are you back managing again yet?

Nope.

Maldjd23

Peanut Butter Jelly wrote: »

How anyone can say they need over 100 players in their squad to play the game is beyond me. And I know they'll say it's investment in the future and "sure all the big clubs buy up all the good players". But do they not realise they are buying up all the players?

I have no problem with people buying youth players, not in the slightest, but there has to be a limit.

I would most certainly be behind capping squads, i have said this several times and i say it as someone who has a load of youth players in my squad.

tupac_healy

Hey Swoody,


Your golden boy Finnbogason, gone to Sociedad in RL, what you make of that? Good or bad move???

KERSPLAT!

Maldjd23 wrote: »

I would most certainly be behind capping squads, i have said this several times and i say it as someone who has a load of youth players in my squad.

How long do you give people to comply? What do you do to someone who breaks the rule?

Maldjd23

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

How long do you give people to comply? What do you do to someone who breaks the rule?

Certainly there are issues to be worked through, i would say a season is more then long enough to get even the biggest squad in order. I love my squad but if needed be i could put half of them up for sale by tonight.

As for someone who breaks the rules we can do shag all really except refuse to buy players from them, refuse to sell them players and slag them off on Boards!!

That is where the admin should have more power, if he could sack managers who won't stay within the limit we could control the situation, it would effectively mean Mac has to sack himself thou..:D:D

Peanut Butter Jelly

You don't comply? You can't buy anymore players until you reach the correct amount. Simple.

Burlap_Sack

At schalke I bought loads of youth players that nobody bar a couple would want...Whats the problem with that?

KERSPLAT!

Burlap_Sack wrote: »

At schalke I bought loads of youth players that nobody bar a couple would want...Whats the problem with that?

Exactly. It's not some painstaking process that takes hours everyday. 5 minutes every second day has my tactics sorted and any bids on free agents made that I want to make. And most go for a few hundred thousand

KERSPLAT!

Peanut Butter Jelly wrote: »

You don't comply? You can't buy anymore players until you reach the correct amount. Simple.

Some of the top teams wouldn't need to buy from a managed team for a long time the way they're set up. You also have to hope that 2 players who are breaking the rules don't want to trade, sure it'd make no odds to them

Squad caps don't work IMO

That said, if it did come in, I would of course comply but I think it's ridiculous to try implement so far into a GW

Peanut Butter Jelly

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

Squad caps don't work IMO

Not after 3 seasons of wheeling and dealing. But if it was implemented at the start, then it could work.

And amn't I right in saying there's a squad cap in Copa? Is it working there?

TheGunns

Peanut Butter Jelly wrote: »

Not after 3 seasons of wheeling and dealing. But if it was implemented at the start, then it could work.

And amn't I right in saying there's a squad cap in Copa? Is it working there?

It works (nobody is over it I think) but it's kinda pointless imo

Maldjd23

Peanut Butter Jelly wrote: »

Not after 3 seasons of wheeling and dealing. But if it was implemented at the start, then it could work.

And amn't I right in saying there's a squad cap in Copa? Is it working there?

Capped to 50 players i think, not sure if it's even checked but as we all know, if managers don't wanna follow it they won't.

KERSPLAT!

Peanut Butter Jelly wrote: »

Not after 3 seasons of wheeling and dealing. But if it was implemented at the start, then it could work.

And amn't I right in saying there's a squad cap in Copa? Is it working there?

tHERE IS BUT i HAVEN'T CHECKED MYSELF IN A WHILE AND NOW THAT YOU MENTION IT i'D SAY i'M OVER IT MYSELF!

Edit, sorry about the caps, not arsed rewriting

Anyway, 3 seasons have gone so you think a squad cap isn't feasible now?

Peanut Butter Jelly

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

There is but I haven't checked myself in a while and now that you mention it I'd say I'm over it myself!

Edit, sorry about the caps, not arsed rewriting

Anyway, 3 seasons have gone so you think a squad cap isn't feasible now?

You're fine There's 4 clubs over it, 3 of which are unmanaged. All bar one is close to the limit.

If people hadn't got over 150 players, then yes, it would be feasible. But to cull from 245 down to under 100 or so in a season?. We are talking a multiple season job.

Lord TSC

I will be blunt; if a squad came in now, I will likely ignore it.

I signed up to other game worlds under additional rules that people were implementing that we're not enforceable. I accepted they were what the worlds involved. This world did not have such a limit and such a game altering, yet utterly unenforceable, rule would just leave me feeling like a lot of work in have done researching players was wasted.

If people choose to not deal with me, so be it. But I would imagine the reality is that if certain players went up for sale, there'd be plenty of players willing to do deals regardless of such a "rule"....

Mr Blobby

Yeah, this late in the game its pointless..

I would have been in favor of having it at the start but we're to far in to expect people to sell all there players.