Vegetarian / Vegan dogs

Grayfoxy

Hello everyone,

Someone mentioned something to me the other day about their dog being on a vegetarian diet.

I have done a lot of reading on it and was shocked at how many people do this, just wanted to see what peoples opinions were.

I personally would never do it, in fact, I would be inclined to go the opposite way.

Does anyone have experience of this? Is it good/bad for a dog?

Thank you

ShodenMcClane

Dogs have carnivorous teeth, so without knowing much more, I'd say it's very bad for them.

On a side note, I think that people who force dangerous beliefs on those who cannot give reasonable consent (be it children or animals) should be relieved of their right to care for that being.

Hooked

I'm no expert on feeding but when we researched the switch to 'raw' feeding, against kibble etc... We came across a lot of info about the importance of feeding a variety of fruits, veg, eggs (and other animal 'products'), meat and fish.

I'd find it hard to imagine a dog getting all it needs on a veggie/vegan diet.

But, I'll happily stand corrected.

Pumpkinseeds

It's mad. I'm a vegetarian and I don't agree with trying to make carnivorous animals eat a vegetarian or vegan diet.

Nody

I think it might be doable with a lot of additives to reach an basic to acceptable level of nutrition to complement the missing stuff from the meat (see the list of stuff in cheap dog food kibble as an example) but the idea that they could survive on pure veggies is mad...

borderlinemeath

For the most part a lot of commercially prepared cheap foods source their protein from non meat sources, gluten in wheat etc. If you read the ingredients list on any of the supermarket brands, eg pedigree, bakers etc you will find perhaps 4% of a meat value, maybe a minute percentage of fish oil but the rest of the ingredients are vegetable derived.

Personally I love my meat, so I have no problem with feeding it to my dogs, and for most of the vegetarians I know, neither do they. I am baffled when I hear of people forcing this on an animal that is a natural carnivore - yes they will eat vegetable matter to survive, but would always choose the carnivorous option if presented with it.

kylith

While they're not obligate carnivores there is no way a dog could get all it needs from a diet that contains no meat at all. I would view feeding such a diet to a dog as mistreatment by failing to provide an adequate diet.

Knine

I am a veggie myself. I don't eat fish, poultry, red meat etc. However I feed it to both my kids & dogs. I have no problem with this & would never expect the dogs to eat just veggies etc. I know lots of people who hunt for the table.

I have no problem with hunting for food but am always amazed at the people who make negative comments on this but then head to Tesco to buy their battery reared chicken.

I think Vegetarian, vegan owners who don't want to feed their pets meat should not get a dog or cat.

TooManyDogs

Knine wrote: »

I think Vegetarian, vegan owners who don't want to feed their pets meat should not get a dog or cat.

I totally agree. My family is vegetarian but I've chosen to have 6 carnivores as pets and I would no more feed them a vegetarian diet than I would feed my rabbit and sheep a carnivorous diet.

On a side note, my child is vegetarian too because in my personal opinion it's better for her to eat a balanced vegetarian diet than an unbalanced omnivorous diet

taram

I'm a veggie, if I wanted a veggie pet I'd not have gotten dogs! However I do find the meaty smell of their food a bit off putting sometimes and have to make my boyfriend feed them

Aye Bosun

My dog is a rescue who I adopted at about 7 months (bichon), no knowledge of what happened to him before. But from day 1 in my house the dog has been mad for veg and fruit and will turn his nose up at meat. Of course I was concerned that he wasn't getting the right vitamins, protein etc I have spoken to the vet about this and he's quite happy for him to remain on the fruit and veg diet, supplemented with raw eggs and fish at most once a week etc. After nearly 2 years on the diet he is health and happy. He has his checkup every 6months and is in great shape according the vet, lots of energy, right weight and size, hair and skin healthy etc.

It's the dogs choosing tho, mad little thing does this crazy dance on his back paws around the kitchen when he sees a carrot and the veg peeler, add a raw egg on top and all hell breaks loose - put meat in front of him and he trots of in disgust!

Trust me, I haven't imposed this diet on him, rarely eat veg myself

mymo

My dogs love veggies, one has stolen bags of frozen broccoli from the shopping before (he's also nicked fish, meat, scones, and other frozen veggies at times, but broccoli is his fav) they love sweet potato, butternut squash soup, carrots, peas, spinach and any left over veggies, but with their meaty dinner, and never too much veg.
I think it's wrong to impose a meat or fish free diet to a dog or cat, any very unhealthy.

sawdoubters

vegen food is fine for dogs as long as its cooked

cocker5

My cocker is also veg crazy.... loves all veg BUT given the choice of veg over say liver (;)) or chicken etc... he'd def choose the meat.

westkryveggirl

Vegetarian and vegan diets for dogs are actually common enough in the States, and many dogs have been shown to thrive on vegan diets. There are multiple brands of vegan dog food available both in the US and in Ireland/UK/Europe. Many people have moved towards feeding a mostly wholefood, properly supplemented homemade diet with or without some kibble. These diets actually tend to have as many or more nutrients than most non-vegan kibble based diets; most commercial non-vegan dogfoods have to add supplements anyway and the majority of these foods are filled with garbage/junky ingredients.

There is a vegan dog nutrition group on facebook if anyone is interested in further exploring the issue; there are several vets within that group as well.

gocarr

There are no nutrients in meat that are not available in a vegetarian diet (human or animal). Just because it is different, doesn't make it wrong. Vegetarianism in humans was considered bizarre for years; it is only recently that we are hearing about the health benefits of a meat-free diet. Vegetarian/vegan pet foods have been around for decades, but they are only now becoming more accessible and acceptable.

Dogs can not just survive, but thrive on a vegan diet. There are many reputable brands out there (V-Dog, Benevo, Ami, Yarrah to name a few) that make complete dog foods using only plant ingredients. These foods are so, so much better than anything for sale in supermarkets. Plus, these companies don't test on animals; Eukanuba/Iams are the worst, but most meat-based food companies breed dogs to keep in cages so they can test ingredients and finished product on them (the same goes for flea drops, vaccines and everything else you buy from your vet). So to help one dog by feeding them a meat diet, you are not only killing farm animals, but financing the torture of purpose-bred dogs.

Despite the fact that cats are "obligate carnivores", they too can live on a vegan diet (my 8 rescues have been for years, and I know many other who feed vegan kibble to their cats).

Given that I would not choose the life of a cat over the lives of farm animals, if I did not have the option to buy vegan kibble, my cats would have been left on the streets to die. They are happier alive and vegan.

fatmammycat

Grayfoxy, I feed my GSD a full on raw diet and think it's the best diet he can eat, my remaining cat also eats a raw diet and has lost weight and his coat and energy has definitely improved on this diet. Having said that, both my other rescue cats lived into their 20's on a diet of whiskas and felix and whatever they themselves nommed while out and about (at one stage we discovered they were getting second breakfasts at the neighbours' house), so who can say what works. I would never feed a carnivore a vegan or vegetarian diet (I don't feed my GSD any veggies or fruit at all, and anytime he has eaten veg it comes out the other side pretty much undigested), they would not choose it and as a pet owner I would not force it on them.

DBB

gocarr wrote: »

Dogs can not just survive, but thrive on a vegan diet.
....

Despite the fact that cats are "obligate carnivores", they too can live on a vegan diet (my 8 rescues have been for years, and I know many other who feed vegan kibble to their cats).

Whilst I appreciate that independent research into raw feeding dogs is lacking, I can find even less research to suggest that dogs nor cats thrive on vegetarian/vegan diets.
I'm not saying this is not true, but is there any chance you could provide some sort of non-anecdotal evidence to support what you're saying here?
Thank you!

borderlinemeath

gocarr wrote: »

There are no nutrients in meat that are not available in a vegetarian diet (human or animal). Just because it is different, doesn't make it wrong. Vegetarianism in humans was considered bizarre for years; it is only recently that we are hearing about the health benefits of a meat-free diet. Vegetarian/vegan pet foods have been around for decades, but they are only now becoming more accessible and acceptable.

Dogs can not just survive, but thrive on a vegan diet. There are many reputable brands out there (V-Dog, Benevo, Ami, Yarrah to name a few) that make complete dog foods using only plant ingredients. These foods are so, so much better than anything for sale in supermarkets. Plus, these companies don't test on animals; Eukanuba/Iams are the worst, but most meat-based food companies breed dogs to keep in cages so they can test ingredients and finished product on them (the same goes for flea drops, vaccines and everything else you buy from your vet). So to help one dog by feeding them a meat diet, you are not only killing farm animals, but financing the torture of purpose-bred dogs.

Despite the fact that cats are "obligate carnivores", they too can live on a vegan diet (my 8 rescues have been for years, and I know many other who feed vegan kibble to their cats).

Given that I would not choose the life of a cat over the lives of farm animals, if I did not have the option to buy vegan kibble, my cats would have been left on the streets to die. They are happier alive and vegan.

Just on the options you have listed as being vegetarian, I had a look on their websites and two of them (Ami, Yarrah) use wheat/gluten as ingredients which the majority of dogs are highly intolerant to. It's the number one ingredient that is fed to dogs that aggravate and itch and make a dog feel generally awful. I don't know whether you have any intolerances but if you do - imagine how a dog would feel after being fed a food that uses wheat/gluten as the main ingredient? Another (V-dog) claims not to use any wheat, corn, soy, gluten, gmos etc - but then I found oats are used as in ingredient in a disclaimer.

None of them categorically state on their websites the ingredients that they DO use, rather just boasts of what they don't. That doesn't really instill me with much confidence to be honest. Nor an endorsement by Peta either.

While you choose your lifestyle as wish, I do feel it's rather excessive to force your lifestyle choices on your pets. I know a vegan who feeds a raw diet to his dog, as he believes it's the best for his pet. He has rather a philosophical view, he feeds mainly fish, based on the thought that the fish he feeds his dog would be eaten by other ocean predators anyway:).

Irish Stones

This cat only eats veggies

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1169637/Meet-Dante-Britains-vegetarian-cat-refuses-eat-meat-fish.html

gocarr

DBB wrote: »

Whilst I appreciate that independent research into raw feeding dogs is lacking, I can find even less research to suggest that dogs nor cats thrive on vegetarian/vegan diets.
I'm not saying this is not true, but is there any chance you could provide some sort of non-anecdotal evidence to support what you're saying here?
Thank you!

Most of the research into cat health, including the information given to vets, is done by the makers of meat-based foods. However, a few studies of vegan pets have been done, one being http://www.vegepets.info/resources/Publications/Veg-cats-Wakefield-et-al-JAVMA-2006.pdf by vet Lorelei Wakefield https://www.facebook.com/lorelei.wakefield

This book take a comprehenisve look at vegan cats and dogs: http://www.amazon.com/Obligate-Carnivore-Really-Means-Vegan/dp/0974218006/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
This page is run by a vet: https://www.facebook.com/vegetariancatsbook
This vet is conducting an EU study on vegan cats and dogs: https://www.facebook.com/piglo
This page covers the nutritional benefits of vegan pet food and has a link to a series of YouTube vidoes http://www.vegepets.info/
Andrew Knight has published many articles on vegan pet health and animal experimentation: http://www.andrewknight.info/
Vegecat food has been around for 28 years http://vegepet.com/faq.html DVD here: http://vegepet.com/vegetarian_cats_dogs.html

Of course, cats and dogs must be fed either a pre-made kibble or a properly designed homemade diet (e.g. Vegekit). Giving your pet only leftover vegetables or pasta, which is what most people assume vegan pet food is, will most likely result in sickness/death. The alternative is this https://www.facebook.com/notes/curran-russell/the-disgusting-truth-about-pet-food/203033136424755 and http://www.naturalnews.com/012647_pet_food_dog.html.

Hope this helps!

gocarr

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Just on the options you have listed as being vegetarian, I had a look on their websites and two of them (Ami, Yarrah) use wheat/gluten as ingredients which the majority of dogs are highly intolerant to. It's the number one ingredient that is fed to dogs that aggravate and itch and make a dog feel generally awful. I don't know whether you have any intolerances but if you do - imagine how a dog would feel after being fed a food that uses wheat/gluten as the main ingredient? Another (V-dog) claims not to use any wheat, corn, soy, gluten, gmos etc - but then I found oats are used as in ingredient in a disclaimer.

None of them categorically state on their websites the ingredients that they DO use, rather just boasts of what they don't. That doesn't really instill me with much confidence to be honest. Nor an endorsement by Peta either.

While you choose your lifestyle as wish, I do feel it's rather excessive to force your lifestyle choices on your pets. I know a vegan who feeds a raw diet to his dog, as he believes it's the best for his pet. He has rather a philosophical view, he feeds mainly fish, based on the thought that the fish he feeds his dog would be eaten by other ocean predators anyway:).

I would never recommed feeding wheat to a dog that is intolerant. Benevo dog food is wheat-free http://www.benevo.com/benevo-dog-food/benevo-dog-original/ Ami is also wheat-free http://www.veggiepets.com/shop/ami-vegan-small-dog-food-800g.html
V-Dog ingredients and analyis here: http://www.veggiepets.com/shop/v-dog-crunchy-nuggets-vegetarian-dog-food-15kg.html This one is wheat-free http://www.veggiepets.com/shop/v-dog-vegan-wheat-gluten-free-mixer-10kg.html

However, Pedigree, Iams and Royal Canin foods all contain wheat and corn
http://www.pedigree.com/really-good-food/adult-complete-nutrition-for-dogs.aspx
http://www.iams.co.uk/dog-food/iams-proactive-health-adult-large-breed
http://www.royalcanin.co.uk/products/products/dog-products/size-health-nutrition/medium-dogs-11-25kg/medium-adult-7

Oats do not naturally contain gluten, so I’m not sure what your point is there.

I’m not forcing my lifestyle on my pets anymore than anyone else. Unless you buy every food available all the time and have your pet choose every day, you are forcing your choices upon them. By purchasing products containing meat, you are forcing your lifestyle upon, not only your pets, but the animals that have been slaughtered to make the food. In my opinion, this is much more excessive.

As I mentioned above, my cats all came from the street where the life expectancy is 2 years. They have all been with me for more than 2 years. They have access to a garden and can leave whenever they want, but they all choose to stay with me; in fact they rarely leave the house where they have comfy beds, plenty of healthy food and lots of love.

DBB

gocarr wrote: »

Most of the research into cat health, including the information given to vets, is done by the makers of meat-based foods. However, a few studies of vegan pets have been done, one being http://www.vegepets.info/resources/Publications/Veg-cats-Wakefield-et-al-JAVMA-2006.pdf by vet Lorelei Wakefield https://www.facebook.com/lorelei.wakefield

I've read this already... This paper is not designed to measure how good, or bad a vegan/vegetarian diet is for carnivorous pets, it simply measures owner attitude to their choices to feed veggie/vegan. Indeed, this paper highlights known risks of feeding vegan/veggie to carnivores.
I'm looking for good, hard evidence that strongly indicates that there's something to be said for improving dog/cat nutrition by switching to a non-meat diet.

This book take a comprehenisve look at vegan cats and dogs: http://www.amazon.com/Obligate-Carnivore-Really-Means-Vegan/dp/0974218006/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

That book was writen by a vegan who is no longer writing in support of veganism. Have you read the book? I haven't, but I don't get the impression from any reviews I've read that it supports, via empirical evidence, that cats and dogs are nutritionally better off by being fed a non-meat diet. If anything, it appears to be a humorous book.

This page is run by a vet: https://www.facebook.com/vegetariancatsbook
This vet is conducting an EU study on vegan cats and dogs: https://www.facebook.com/piglo
This page covers the nutritional benefits of vegan pet food and has a link to a series of YouTube vidoes http://www.vegepets.info/
Andrew Knight has published many articles on vegan pet health and animal experimentation: http://www.andrewknight.info/
Vegecat food has been around for 28 years http://vegepet.com/faq.html DVD here: http://vegepet.com/vegetarian_cats_dogs.html

But none of this gives me the evidence I need! These are all people with strong opinions trying to push an agenda.... But where's their evidence? I can supply you with any number of links to websites and fb pages of vets who strongly advocate dry feeding, or raw feeding, or anything in between. Facebook pages do not constitute evidence, merely personal opinion... Unless that person has the strength of empirical evidence behind them.

The alternative is this https://www.facebook.com/notes/curran-russell/the-disgusting-truth-about-pet-food/203033136424755 and http://www.naturalnews.com/012647_pet_food_dog.html.

So, you can provide no evidence, but rely on strengthening your argument by dissing the "opposition". Hmmm. If anyone can supply me with one research paper to support that feeding dogs and cats a non-meat diet is better for them than a meaty diet, I'm all ears.
For the record, I do not feed any dry commercial food to my dogs, so I don't need to have the above link, or anything like it, shoved at me in order to convince me. I want evidence!

gocarr

Everyone on this page is dissing vegetarian diets without evidence! The study above gave results of the pets’ health along with their owners reasoning. I’m not sure what you want to hear. Most people who buy commercial pet food have no idea what is in it, never mind what their pets’ nutritional requirements are. Animals need nutrients, not ingredients.

Regarding, Obligate Carnivore, while it is humourously written, it is an informative read. The second edition is not supposed to be as good. Jed Gillen is still vegan.

I didn’t mean to “shove” anything at you; I was simply comparing like with like. Most pet owners feed dry kibble. The issue here is vegetarian-v- meat food, not raw-v-dry.

I’ll get back to you in a few years when the ongoing studies are published. In the meantime, perhaps if you aren’t comfortable keeping a pet on a cruelty-free diet, you should think about getting a pet that is naturally cruetly-free, such as a rabbit or a hamster 

borderlinemeath

gocarr wrote: »

I would never recommed feeding wheat to a dog that is intolerant. Benevo dog food is wheat-free http://www.benevo.com/benevo-dog-food/benevo-dog-original/

Composition: Soya, Corn, White Rice, Sunflower Oil, Peas, Brewers Yeast, Sugar Beet Pulp, Tomato Pomace, Yeast Based Palatant, Minerals, Vitamins, Yucca Schidigera Extract (0.1%), Fructo-Oligosaccharides (Prebiotic FOS) (0.01%).


Contains corn (maize) and white rice, both grains which again, dogs tend to be intolerant to.

Ami is also wheat-free http://www.veggiepets.com/shop/ami-vegan-small-dog-food-800g.html

Corn, Corn gluten, Corn oil, Rice protein, Linseed, Beet pulp, Potato protein extract, Brewer's yeast, Vitamins and minerals, L-Carnitine. Also contains linoleic acid (6.90%).

More corn/maize and more gluten!

V-Dog ingredients and analyis here: http://www.veggiepets.com/shop/v-dog-crunchy-nuggets-vegetarian-dog-food-15kg.html

Ingredients:
Wheat, Maize, Soya, Wheatfeed, Prairie meal, Sugar beet pulp, Sunflower oil, Rice, Pasta, Dicalcium phosphate, Yeast, Linseed, Salt, Vitamin supplement, Fructo-oligosaccharides, Rosemary, Parsley, Natural antioxidants, Yucca extracts.

Seriously, have you read the links yourself? :rolleyes:

This one is wheat-free http://www.veggiepets.com/shop/v-dog-vegan-wheat-gluten-free-mixer-10kg.html

Ingredients:
Barley, Maize, Oatfeed, Peas, Whole Linseed, Soya Oil, Minerals

Contains barley and maize - and is only a mixer - 10% protein, designed to be mixed with a high protein source.

However, Pedigree, Iams and Royal Canin foods all contain wheat and corn
http://www.pedigree.com/really-good-food/adult-complete-nutrition-for-dogs.aspx
http://www.iams.co.uk/dog-food/iams-proactive-health-adult-large-breed
http://www.royalcanin.co.uk/products/products/dog-products/size-health-nutrition/medium-dogs-11-25kg/medium-adult-7

I know that. I don't feed those foods. In fact I don't feed any processed kibble foods to my dogs, they do however get some processed treats.

Oats do not naturally contain gluten, so I’m not sure what your point is there.

It's still a grain, and once again, a lot of dogs can be intolerant to it.

I’m not forcing my lifestyle on my pets anymore than anyone else. Unless you buy every food available all the time and have your pet choose every day, you are forcing your choices upon them. By purchasing products containing meat, you are forcing your lifestyle upon, not only your pets, but the animals that have been slaughtered to make the food. In my opinion, this is much more excessive.

As I mentioned above, my cats all came from the street where the life expectancy is 2 years. They have all been with me for more than 2 years. They have access to a garden and can leave whenever they want, but they all choose to stay with me; in fact they rarely leave the house where they have comfy beds, plenty of healthy food and lots of love.

I'm sorry but you are forcing your lifestyle choices on your pets. You choose to be vegan. Your choice, not theirs. If they went out hunting they don't go digging up a vegetable patch to nibble on carrots, they'll hunt vermin and birds as their hardwired instinct tells them to, to extract the most nutritious meal possible given their circumstances.

I eat meat, fish & dairy. Do I feel guilty? No, but I do sometimes feel embarrassed by not feeling guilty, because there's a huge amount of concern over the welfare of animals used in the food chain. I buy meat from my local butcher who can guarantee me that the products are Irish and ethically farmed and that's my choice. The meat I feed my dogs is also Irish but as for forcing my lifestyle choices onto my dogs I don't think so. I guarantee that they will hoover up the meat or fish I feed them, if I try to feed vegetables they turn up their nose, unless I cook them to a pulp and blend them into the meat, maybe with some potatoes. Even then unless there's some fish oil to flavour it - it gets left behind. Their choice.

DBB

Everyone on this page is dissing vegetarian diets without evidence! The study above gave results of the pets’ health along with their owners reasoning. I’m not sure what you want to hear. Most people who buy commercial pet food have no idea what is in it, never mind what their pets’ nutritional requirements are. Animals need nutrients, not ingredients.

Regarding, Obligate Carnivore, while it is humourously written, it is an informative read. The second edition is not supposed to be as good. Jed Gillen is still vegan.

I didn’t mean to “shove” anything at you; I was simply comparing like with like. Most pet owners feed dry kibble. The issue here is vegetarian-v- meat food, not raw-v-dry.

I’ll get back to you in a few years when the ongoing studies are published. In the meantime, perhaps if you aren’t comfortable keeping a pet on a cruelty-free diet, you should think about getting a pet that is naturally cruetly-free, such as a rabbit or a hamster 

Gocarr, please do not lecture me, nor attempt to dictate what pets I should keep. You say you are not forcing your ideas on anyone, but that last post to me is exceptionally judgmental, and no way to gain support, nor to be taken seriously.
The paper you cited is not designed to measure animal health. It measured one health parameter, and found a couple of the animals to be borderline. But what you don't seem to understand is that this paper is not claiming to state whether a veggie/vegan diet is healthy, or at least, healthier than a meat diet. It is designed to measure owner attitude. I had already read the same paper before in my fruitless attempt to find something, anything in the scientific literature to support your claims.
Another link you gave tries to play down the importance of l-carnitine in the dog's diet, concentrating entirely on how it influences heart health, but conveniently playing down how utterly vital it is for mental and neurological health. Same for taurine in the cat's diet.
You have not provided a shred of evidence to support that a veggie/vegan diet is better for a carnivore. Not one. So do not use the art of discrediting those who question you as a way to win people over, or to support your argument. It doesn't work. In fact, it alienates people. You do not seem to understand the gravity of not being able to back up a single thing you've said.

borderlinemeath

gocarr wrote: »

Everyone on this page is dissing vegetarian diets without evidence! The study above gave results of the pets’ health along with their owners reasoning. I’m not sure what you want to hear. Most people who buy commercial pet food have no idea what is in it, never mind what their pets’ nutritional requirements are. Animals need nutrients, not ingredients.

Not on this forum! Nutritional composition, kibble v raw/fresh, food intolerances - have a search on this forum and see just how much thought posters have put into what they feed their pets.

Regarding, Obligate Carnivore, while it is humourously written, it is an informative read. The second edition is not supposed to be as good. Jed Gillen is still vegan.

I didn’t mean to “shove” anything at you; I was simply comparing like with like. Most pet owners feed dry kibble. The issue here is vegetarian-v- meat food, not raw-v-dry.

Most pet owners have been brainwashed by marketing companies into feeding dry kibble. I don't like feeding any processed food as my dogs main food source - meat or vegetarian.

I’ll get back to you in a few years when the ongoing studies are published. In the meantime, perhaps if you aren’t comfortable keeping a pet on a cruelty-free diet, you should think about getting a pet that is naturally cruetly-free, such as a rabbit or a hamster 

And this bolded part? That's why I'll enjoy a nice steak for my dinner tonight. I have no problem with people being vegetarian or vegan, but I sure as hell don't like the judgemental insinuation that because I eat meat or feed meat to my pets it's 'cruel'.

SillyMangoX

I did a little experiment at home recently. I have 3 cats and am trying to move them to a higher meat content food as I believe, as do many others, it's best for them. The ingredients of the origional food are: Corn, poultry protein (dried), rice, vegetable protein isolate, animal fats, maize gluten, animal protein (hydrolyzed), vegetable fibers, minerals, beet pulp, yeasts, soya oil, fructo-oligosaccharides, paprika extract, borage oil.
It's not great, but not the worst either. Some meat content in the form or poultry protein and animal fats, they liked it and were doing well on it.
The new foods ingredients are Dry Chicken Meat (min. 59%), Dry Potato (min 4%), Chicken Mince (min. 9%), Poultry Oil (min. 9%, source of Omega 6), Poultry Gravy (min. 3%), Beet Pulp (min. 3%), Dry Whole Eggs (min. 3%), Brewers Dried Yeast, Salmon Oil (source of Omega 3), Minerals, Cellulose Plant Fibre (min. 0.4%), Sodium Chloride, Calcium Carbonate, Seaweed/Kelp, Cranberry, DL-Methionine, Potassium Chloride, Yucca Extract, Citrus Extract, Rosemary Extract.
So straight off looking better, actual meat as a names ingredient instead of just protein. In fact 4 poultry sources in the first 5 ingredients so the meat content is a lot higher.

I put down 2 bowls of food beside each other. One old one new. Each of my 3 cats went for the new food every single time and I repeated this 5 times with each cat. That proves to me they WANT meat.

Just as another little experiment I performed last October, one of my cats adores pumpkin, like it's not safe to leave a pumpkin in the house with him around. He also gets a chicken wing once a week which I throw in the garden for him to chase and feel like he is catching and killing it before eating, which is a very natural instinct. I threw the pumpkin and the chicken at the same time. Initially he chased the pumpkin but upon discovering what it was he walked around till he found the chicken and devoured that.

I'm sure cats and dogs can survive on a veggie/vegan diet and some may even thrive on it but I can almost guarantee given the choice it's not what they would prefer. I just don't feel it's right to force beliefs onto a being that can't have beliefs for itself!

fatmammycat

All you need do is look at the physiology of the cat, ears claws, teeth, digestive tracts: they're designed to catch and kill and ingest small mammals and birds, they are fantastically good at this for a reason. I can understand how a vegan might find it distasteful to feed a carnivore a meat based diet, but with the best will in the world, it takes a certain amount of peculiar thinking not to do so.

DBB

Having read the ingredients list of a number of vegetarian diets, can I also draw attention to the potential fall-out from using soy and its products as a protein source for carnivorous animals (paying attention to the fact that these are all links to peer-reviewed, published data), links posted in this post by me recently:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=88727445&postcount=27

By the by, there is gluten in oats. It's not as easily accessible as wheat gluten is, but I know several coeliacs who cannot eat oats. Barley also contains gluten and is a no-go for a large number of coeliacs. Therefore, it can be deduced that dogs have the same susceptibility, but in a greater proportion of their population.

kylith

gocarr wrote: »

I’ll get back to you in a few years when the ongoing studies are published. In the meantime, perhaps if you aren’t comfortable keeping a pet on a cruelty-free diet, you should think about getting a pet that is naturally cruetly-free, such as a rabbit or a hamster 

And if vegetarian or vegan isn't comfortable feeding a carnivorous animal the diet they have evolved to eat they shouldn't have dogs or cats.

Saying a dog or cat can get all they need from vegetables is, to me, like saying that a horse can get all they need from eating steak. It might be technically correct, but it is not what that animal is designed for.