Ireland vs Wales, Saturday 8th February, 2:30pm, Aviva Stadium

stpaddy99

both benches look surprisingly weak.....theres a lot of injuries to a lot of the back up players. class like bowe and earls missing, I read somewhere the welsh have 4 of their test locks out and evans banned and all their back up wingers too

stephen_n

.ak wrote: »

True, but you wonder if he'd be there if McCarthy is fit.

Hard to say but I don't think that Touhy would have been brought in under Kidney regardless. Touhy is very similar to McCarthy so It's like for like and both fit, it would probably come down to form and who has picked up on Joe's system best.

stpaddy99

Swiwi. wrote: »

And the Swiss? Neutral, I suppose.

everyone who wins is always the most hated....in the 80's snooker fans hated davis, in the 90s they hated henry. now they just hate barry hearn
in boxing they hated eubanks, then he lost , now they tolerate him
prince naz was hated and well hes still hated
muhammad ali was hated as champ by many originally, then when he made a comeback he was loved
man utd hated by everyone other than man utd fans
england rugby hated throughout the 90s
the only winners everyone loves is brazils football team

rrpc

stpaddy99 wrote: »

everyone who wins is always the most hated....in the 80's snooker fans hated davis, in the 90s they hated henry. now they just hate barry hearn
in boxing they hated eubanks, then he lost , now they tolerate him
prince naz was hated and well hes still hated
muhammad ali was hated as champ by many originally, then when he made a comeback he was loved
man utd hated by everyone other than man utd fans
england rugby hated throughout the 90s
the only winners everyone loves is brazils football team

You forgot about Michael Schumacher, Tiger Woods and Sebastian Vettel.

former legend

19543261 wrote: »

Except that you cant base a players effectiveness on one game...? So really this says nothing at all.

If we're talking about current form, what else can you do?

I could have said that Kearney has been in much better form with his club, which he has been, but then he has an advantage because he plays for a good team and Halfpenny doesn't so I was trying to be fair.

Personally, I think the hype about Halfpenny was way overblown during the Lions tour because of his goal-kicking ability. His actual play from full-back was good but nothing remarkable IMO.

Yeah_Right

My 2 cents on Kearney v Halfpenny.

Both are very good players. However a few years ago (2009-10 I think) Kearney was the best FB in the world ahead of Dagg, Mils etc. His form then dropped off a lot. I don't believe Halfpeeny ever reached those heights but has been more consistent. I'd say Kearney is better with ball in hand, under the high ball and as a tackler. Halfpenny has a better boot and positional play and is an incredible goal kicker.

Both can change a game but through different skill sets.

.ak

former legend wrote: »

If we're talking about current form, what else can you do?

I could have said that Kearney has been in much better form with his club, which he has been, but then he has an advantage because he plays for a good team and Halfpenny doesn't so I was trying to be fair.

Personally, I think the hype about Halfpenny was way overblown during the Lions tour because of his goal-kicking ability. His actual play from full-back was good but nothing remarkable IMO.

Agree with you there. His form in the 6n was far better - and I think he deserved the hype he got from that though.

My favourite part of his game is his counter attack. When he decides to run the ball he's usually guaranteed to make a dazzling break. Joy to watch.

rrpc

former legend wrote: »

If we're talking about current form, what else can you do?

I could have said that Kearney has been in much better form with his club, which he has been, but then he has an advantage because he plays for a good team and Halfpenny doesn't so I was trying to be fair.

Personally, I think the hype about Halfpenny was way overblown during the Lions tour because of his goal-kicking ability. His actual play from full-back was good but nothing remarkable IMO.

This is the point. ½p is a very good full back who's kicking ability has driven him to the top of the tree. What he does in his more general duties is good to very good. He was completely left for dead when the Italian 13 made his break last weekend and seemed to be out of position as well.

stpaddy99

rrpc wrote: »

You forgot about Michael Schumacher, Tiger Woods and Sebastian Vettel.

yep true.....alain prost....john macenroe...pete sampras....navratilova....faldo...everyone wants to tear them down when theyre winning....then when theyre on their knees we want to help them back up lol .....were a weird lot

Podge_irl

Swiwi. wrote: »

And the Swiss? Neutral, I suppose.

I think they're still at the point of wondering why the ball isn't round :pac:

Though I have begun indoctrinating a Finnish person.

stpaddy99

Yeah_Right wrote: »

My 2 cents on Kearney v Halfpenny.

Both are very good players. However a few years ago (2009-10 I think) Kearney was the best FB in the world ahead of Dagg, Mils etc. His form then dropped off a lot. I don't believe Halfpeeny ever reached those heights but has been more consistent. I'd say Kearney is better with ball in hand, under the high ball and as a tackler. Halfpenny has a better boot and positional play and is an incredible goal kicker.

Both can change a game but through different skill sets.

Hmm fascinating battle this

looking at the stats

kearney is 3 inches taller and 20 pounds heavier, hes a pretty big lad

kearney has 36 tries in 142 games for leinster
halfpenny has 21 in 74 for cardiff
in tests
kearney has 9 in 50
halfpenny has 12 in 44

id say kearney is stronger in possession, though halfpenny never gets any ball ripped off him
halfpenny is a bit quicker
both are very good and brave under high ball, kearney has the edge due to height
positionally both are superb
both run good lines
both hoof the ball a long long way
defensively for a smaller man hapenny is awesome
form wise Id say kearney has the edge
then again hes in a world class team and halfpenny is at cardiff

i cant call it

GBXI

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

If ever a stat didn't tell the whole story this is it

Kearney is a better attacker when on form, simple as. Halfpenny is too easy to shackle with ball in hand, whereas Kearney has an uncanny ability to wriggle out of tackles

Add to that Kearney's ability to claim garryowens and I think it's fair to say he's a better attacker

Also, Halfpenny has been playing in a side that have an attacking identity whereas Kearney has been playing in an Irish side that have had awful cohesion in the backs since 2009 so it's no wonder he was less trys. Add to that the fact that a lot of Halfpenny's caps have come on the wing and it shows that try scoring stats don't mean a player is a better attacker

I disagree with all, expect maybe the fact that LH has been playing in a better back-line, but it's not as if RK's back-line colleagues have been rubbish.

Kearney is one of the best around at Garryowens, no doubt. But he is such an average open-field runner, he has no step and I think his little spin trick is all he has. I don't think he has, for example, Tommy Bowe's ability to spot a gap and run a line. LH is better than Kearney at all of the above, except Garryowens.

ionadnapokot

Neither come close to the Israelites :pac:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfjEtTQXsrY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5E-UYJLOis

Tox56

Yeah_Right wrote: »

My 2 cents on Kearney v Halfpenny.

Both are very good players. However a few years ago (2009-10 I think) Kearney was the best FB in the world ahead of Dagg, Mils etc. His form then dropped off a lot. I don't believe Halfpeeny ever reached those heights but has been more consistent. I'd say Kearney is better with ball in hand, under the high ball and as a tackler. Halfpenny has a better boot and positional play and is an incredible goal kicker.

Both can change a game but through different skill sets.

I think you've got them mixed up in terms of tackling/positional play. Kearney's positioning is fantastic, but his tackling generally isn't (although he has tightened up a lot recently, Halfpenny has generally been better at this).. that said Halfpenny's positioning is superb too. In fact I'd say they're pretty even in that area

Swiwi.

Tox56 wrote: »

I think you've got them mixed up in terms of tackling/positional play. Kearney's positioning is fantastic, but his tackling generally isn't (although he has tightened up a lot recently, Halfpenny has generally been better at this).. that said Halfpenny's positioning is superb too. In fact I'd say they're pretty even in that area

Halfpenny is class. The only area he isn't world class IMO is on the running counter-attack, where I think Kearney is better. But the rest of his fullback play is very good.

chupacabra

Yeah yeah, everyone loves to hate a winner. But Wales have a lot more to dislike about them. Even if 1 - 23 are the most humble and nice gentlemen in world rugby they still have a certain air of cockiness about them left over from the days of Hook, Byrne and of course Henson. The fake tan, the brawls in pubs, the frosted tips etc.

I would love it if we beat them. Love it.

rrpc

chupacabra wrote: »

Yeah yeah, everyone loves to hate a winner. But Wales have a lot more to dislike about them. Even if 1 - 23 are the most humble and nice gentlemen in world rugby they still have a certain air of cockiness about them left over from the days of Hook, Byrne and of course Henson. The fake tan, the brawls in pubs, the frosted tips etc.

I would love it if we beat them. Love it.

You forgot Andy Powell! Please don't forget Andy Powell

LeeroyJones

I think we'll have an easier time nullifying Halfpenny's contribution to the game than vice versa. Obviously both sides can utilise them respectively through a backline move so that aside.

Halfpenny's goalkicking is superb, but if we limit the amount of penalties (which we've done a good job of late) then we don't give him the opportunity to kick. Furthermore, his out-of-hand kicking/running from deep is impressive but we're not the type to give him the ball from deep as we tend to go for Up-and-Unders or to touch for field position.

In contrast, whether or not Wales try to nullify Kearney, we can get Kearney involved via his own Garryowen or that of Sexton. Wales also like to kick deep, and not to touch, thus Kearney will get opportunity to field the ball himself, this is of course Wales opt to alter their gameplan at which point you're into the unknown

ionadnapokot

Kearney rarely if ever passes the ball after he fields a kick. He makes strange defensive decisions when coming across from FB to cover tackle, and is usually beaten easily by a step. However, there is no doubt that he is world class at fielding and at the kick and catch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rd7ea8yBdd4
I think Ireland will employ the kick chase on Saturday a few times. And i think Ireland are happier that they are kicking to 1/2P instead of some 1 as good as Kearney.
I hope Trimble and Kearney D can really get up and into the Welsh faces for the chase.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Don't forget, Mike Phillips is still playing lads

chupacabra

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Don't forget, Mike Phillips is still playing lads

Actually Mike Phillips is probably 90% of the reason why I still dislike Wales.

This thread will be my only way to keep up with the game on saturday so dont let me down lads.

The Pheasant2

A primary criticism I'd have for Kearney is that although he's a great counter attacker, he's often very greedy while on the ball and doesn't look to give the pass as often as he should. Other than that great player and in good form

stpaddy99

rrpc wrote: »

You forgot Andy Powell! Please don't forget Andy Powell

no one ever could. best golf caddy in wales, he gets you a motorway pasty at 4am lol

Phoeey

ionadnapokot wrote: »

I hope Trimble and Kearney D can really get up and into the Welsh faces for the chase.

I'd imagine North and Cuthbert may be working hard on blocking them.

stpaddy99

sorry but north and cuthbert wont be trimbling at the thought of those 2 wings

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

stpaddy99 wrote: »

sorry but north and cuthbert wont be trimbling at the thought of those 2 wings

Not sure if you did this on purpose, very funny if you did

stpaddy99

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Not sure if you did this on purpose, very funny if you did

I didnt accidentally write the word trimbling no

Tox56

Swiwi. wrote: »

Halfpenny is class. The only area he isn't world class IMO is on the running counter-attack, where I think Kearney is better. But the rest of his fullback play is very good.

Yeah I used to think he was suspect under the high ball because of his size (he's tiny at 5'10 compared to the 6'1 Kearney/Dagg or 6'5 Folau), and I still hope Sexton launches one at him for Kearney to chase, but recently it seems he almost always finds a way to come away with the ball, somehow.

Hagz

I would say this is the biggest rivalry we have in rugby. People will go on about England, but I think that's a rivalry based mostly on factors unrelated to rugby. In every sport Ireland play there's the same 'rivalry' with England.

This rivalry we have with Wales is purely based on rugby and I think it has intensified over the last 5 years. Purely from my own perspective, little controversial moments and certain games have developed in me a burning desire to see Ireland thrash Wales every time we play them. I think back to the 2011 match when I felt we were the better team and yet Wales won with a try that should never have been allowed (ball controversy). Then the 2012 match where I felt Bradley Davies should have seen red and Wales earned a penalty to win it from a Stephen Ferris 'tip tackle' that in my opinion was never deserved of a penalty. Then the fact that they pi**ed all over our World Cup high in the Quarter Final, and then of course the whole the Lions debacle has added fuel to the flames (purely because of the way the fans and media depicted the Irish fans and O'Driscoll/Wood in a terrible light).

And then to top it all of, Stephen Jones.

Tox56

Hagz wrote: »

I would say this is the biggest rivalry we have in rugby. People will go on about England, but I think that's a rivalry based mostly on factors unrelated to rugby. In every sport Ireland play there's the same 'rivalry' with England.

This rivalry we have with Wales is purely based on rugby and I think it has intensified over the last 5 years. Purely from my own perspective, little controversial moments and certain games have developed in me a burning desire to see Ireland thrash Wales every time we play them. I think back to the 2011 match when I felt we were the better team and yet Wales won with a try that should never have been allowed (ball controversy). Then the 2012 match where I felt Bradley Davies should have seen red and Wales earned a penalty to win it from a Stephen Ferris 'tip tackle' that in my opinion was never deserved of a penalty. Then the fact that they pi**ed all over our World Cup high in the Quarter Final, and then of course the whole the Lions debacle has added fuel to the flames (purely because of the way the fans and media depicted the Irish fans and O'Driscoll/Wood in a terrible light).

And then to top it all of, Stephen Jones.

From a Leinster POV there's also the FCUKING Ospreys :mad:

Yeah_Right

Hagz wrote: »

And then to top it all of, Stephen Jones.

Amen!!

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Amen!!

Double amen. I stopped buying the Sunday Times because of him but I'll gladly jog to the shop on Sunday, hangover in tow if we win just to see what he has to say about it

ralphh

chupacabra wrote: »

Actually Mike Phillips is probably 90% of the reason why I still dislike Wales.

I couldn't agree more. I really dislike Phillips. I don't know what it is about him but have never liked him.

astonaidan

thebaz wrote: »

completly disagree - on his day Kearney is the best full back in world rugby - especially in attack - he does have bad periods , but when he is on fire , no one can touch him , and he is a monster attacker

Yeah thats not true, Dagg is the best fullback in the world. Kearney too often looks for contact and too often doesnt give the pass. Regarding HP and Kearney, HP offers more in attack for me, tbh its in defence Id rate Kearney higher, possibly best fb under the high ball in the world

donfers

Who is the ref?

In a tight game he will be crucial, we've had some bad decisions go against us against Wales in recent encounters, let's hope we are not debating the ref here this weekend

rrpc

donfers wrote: »

Who is the ref?

In a tight game he will be crucial, we've had some bad decisions go against us against Wales in recent encounters, let's hope we are not debating the ref here this weekend

Wayne Barnes

pc7

Wayne Barnes - beaten to it by fast fingers rrpc

former legend

donfers wrote: »

Who is the ref?

In a tight game he will be crucial, we've had some bad decisions go against us against Wales in recent encounters, let's hope we are not debating the ref here this weekend

If we lose, there will be hell to pay over the refereeing, regardless of who it is or how he performs.

Hagz

You mean this Wayne Barnes….

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoPhM3nqvIM

jacothelad

rrpc wrote: »

Wayne Barnes

We're screwed.

In a game recently, Ulster or Munster v. ????, he penalised one of our props before the ball went in on the basis that he had ..and I quote.."Lost their body shape." He's a terrible ref with all the empathy for the game as a hyena has for a baby giraffe. Going back even to 2009 v. Wales, he penalised DOC for a head pat from which Wales scored 3 points, ignored a Welsh prop doing the same later and of course penalised Mincer who, no matter how you view it, was not committing a penalty offence. Then there was the Ferris 'penalty that lost us the game in 2012, refusing to red card Davies and add in his pompous demeanour, you have a fairly flawed package.

Swiwi.

astonaidan wrote: »

Yeah thats not true, Dagg is the best fullback in the world. Kearney too often looks for contact and too often doesnt give the pass. Regarding HP and Kearney, HP offers more in attack for me, tbh its in defence Id rate Kearney higher, possibly best fb under the high ball in the world

*Israel Folau*

The Pheasant2

That decision from Barnes made me so insanely furious. It was just a good tackle - I was pissing steam for hours after that match

rrpc

jacothelad wrote: »

We're screwed.

I'm not so sure that Wales are not equally screwed?

donfers

Barnes get this fixture after an awful decision decided the same game a couple of years ago - very odd!

Grimebox

Ugh moaning about the ref already

former legend

rrpc wrote: »

I'm not so sure that Wales are not equally screwed?

This, this and this again. Wrecks my head how people a) complain about every referee and b) always assume that their team was/will be the victim.

who_me

stpaddy99 wrote: »

sorry but north and cuthbert wont be trimbling at the thought of those 2 wings

Those two kearney-vores will eat our back 3 alive...

I'll get my coat

rrpc

former legend wrote: »

This, this and this again. Wrecks my head how people a) complain about every referee and b) always assume that their team was/will be the victim.

None of the top refs are bad. They all make mistakes, but they all try and improve. Romain Poite gets terrible stick from Munster supporters because of a decision lost in the mists of time, yet to me he's invariably good humoured, clearly loves the game and his job, communicates well and is as even-handed as they come.

I used to call Wayne Barnes 'Silent Night' since he used always whistle first and talk afterwards, but he's got a good bit more vocal and instructive in recent years.

They all have their little idiosyncrasies, but they're not the top refs in the world for nothing.

Kanrith

Haven't we only won one match with him as a ref out of the six or so he has done with us? Think I remember reading that somewhere.

ionadnapokot

if correct. that is frightning