Ireland vs Wales, Saturday 8th February, 2:30pm, Aviva Stadium

.ak

I can't call whether we'll win this or not, it's too tight, Wales are the better team but on paper the players are fairly evenly matched in certain areas.

However, win or lose, I predict Darce to be MOTM

.ak

rrpc wrote: »

I noticed that the ref was penalising chop tackles if arms weren't involved in the U20s match last night. He penalised Wales twice for it and Leavy got penalised as well. This is a feature of Lydiate's tackles, I wonder will he get pinged?

No, because that was the most pedantic reffing display I had ever seen last night.

accidentprone1

rrpc wrote: »

I noticed that the ref was penalising chop tackles if arms weren't involved in the U20s match last night. He penalised Wales twice for it and Leavy got penalised as well. This is a feature of Lydiate's tackles, I wonder will he get pinged?

Interesting and well observed. I'd never never thought of the need for wrapping in chop tackles, but obviously not doing so makes the tackle far more forceful.

I wonder is it that ref's interpretation or a directive from higher up.

duckysauce

.ak wrote: »

I can't call whether we'll win this or not, it's too tight, Wales are the better team but on paper the players are fairly evenly matched in certain areas.

However, win or lose, I predict Darce to be MOTM

33/1 :eek:

accidentprone1

.ak wrote: »

No, because that was the most pedantic reffing display I had ever seen last night.

Is he not correct to do so though?

.ak

accidentprone1 wrote: »

Is he not correct to do so though?

Technically, yes. But that's how the game is reffed, it's important the ref interprets the game correctly. I.e wrapping the arms is there to prevent cheap shots and injuries. Defending the pillar close to deck ? No way, it's almost impossible to bind/use your arms. A top level ref would never ping someone for that.

.ak

duckysauce wrote: »

33/1 :eek:

You heard it here first.

former legend

Conspiracy nut jobs of the world rejoice!

Ireland's record under Barnes is on the front page of the Times sports section today.

Serious case of getting the excuses in early

Molester Stallone

.ak wrote: »

You heard it here first.

Madness I tells ya!

irishbucsfan

former legend wrote: »

Conspiracy nut jobs of the world rejoice!

Ireland's record under Barnes is on the front page of the Times sports section today.

Serious case of getting the excuses in early

Ireland have never won under Barnes when it is raining. There's no point in us even trying today

Podge_irl

former legend wrote: »

Conspiracy nut jobs of the world rejoice!

Ireland's record under Barnes is on the front page of the Times sports section today.

Serious case of getting the excuses in early

The Irish Times?

Thornley has been under the impression that Ireland have been persecuted by refs for the previous 3 seasons. He never failed to mention it in a match report or column. Utterly ****ing tedious.

ralphh

Whatever happens... today is going to be close!

laugh

former legend wrote: »

Conspiracy nut jobs of the world rejoice!

Ireland's record under Barnes is on the front page of the Times sports section today.

Serious case of getting the excuses in early

I wonder will it be the complimentary paper at Barne's hotel.

thomond2006

Weather is nice this morning!

Kayless

former legend wrote: »

Conspiracy nut jobs of the world rejoice!

Ireland's record under Barnes is on the front page of the Times sports section today.

Serious case of getting the excuses in early

Job well done, it's about time people started to ask why our record is so bad under Barnes without the typical one eyed response of, we've been sh*te.

The thing that gets to me is not our win/loss ratio under Barnes (and lets be honest if this had happened to Wales Gats would have raised the issue publicly long ago like he did this week with the scrum laws) but the fact that we constantly hear players talking about how they analyse the ref, well if thats the case than how come we always seem to get it wrong when it comes to Barnes? Surely the Irish players know him well enough by now not to make the same silly mistakes, so whos to blame?

prettyboy81

Expecting a tight game but hopefully we edge it out with home advantage counting for us. Any win will do & onto the next one

Buer

We were ****e and it's embarrassing for the primary rugby paper in the country to try to apportion the blame on Barnes for those showings.

Yes, he has managed to get things wrong but that's what happens in every game. We lost at home when he incorrectly penalised Ferris but Ireland allowed their defensive line to be broken repeatedly and were bullied down the field. Instead we hide behind a referee who is calling it as he sees it on the spot in a 100mph game.

captbarnacles

Saying Barnes cost us the match 2 years ago is too much. From what I remember Wales had just driven us 60m down the pitch and we were really struggling to contain them. They might could easily have got a different penalty or a drop goal to win.

The penalty on Paddy Wallace in Cardiff was harsh. As an aside should referees just tell the players that from say 70 minutes on there is no more coaching or warnings ie "hands off"? I reckon it would be fairer.

Podge_irl

Buer wrote: »

Yes, he has managed to get things wrong but that's what happens in every game. We lost at home when he incorrectly penalised Ferris but Ireland allowed their defensive line to be broken repeatedly and were bullied down the field. Instead we hide behind a referee who is calling it as he sees it on the spot in a 100mph game.

It's such nonsense. Wales had just gone 60 metres up the pitch seemingly at will. There is absolutely zero doubt in my mind that they were going to score anyway.

thomond2006

Seriously Gerry, just go away with the permanent defence of Kidney.

Buer

captbarnacles wrote: »

The penalty on Paddy Wallace in Cardiff was harsh.

Was it? Ruck had formed and Wallace went after the ball. It was fairly brainless.

captbarnacles

Harsh in that earlier in the game Barnes would have warned him to get away - thats what I mean about refs agreeing with players when the warnings stop

irishbucsfan

captbarnacles wrote: »

Harsh in that earlier in the game Barnes would have warned him to get away - thats what I mean about refs agreeing with players when the warnings stop

Referees don't have to warn a player to not make brainless errors. It was completely Wallace's fault and he normally knows better

Kayless

thomond2006 wrote: »

Seriously Gerry, just go away with the permanent defence of Kidney.

Look, the one thing that gives me hope for todays game is that Schmidt has most likely looked at Barnes and given the players some kind of idea of how to play him, this is something I don't think Kidney would have looked at in as much depth so there is hope.

captbarnacles

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Referees don't have to warn a player to not make brainless errors. It was completely Wallace's fault and he normally knows better

Rash decision for sure but he said afterwards he expected a warning from Barnes, didn't hear one so proceeded to play the ball.

.ak

Kayless wrote: »

Look, the one thing that gives me hope for todays game is that Schmidt has most likely looked at Barnes and given the players some kind of idea of how to play him, this is something I don't think Kidney would have looked at in as much depth so there is hope.

The one thing?

Buer

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Referees don't have to warn a player to not make brainless errors. It was completely Wallace's fault and he normally knows better

He actually did begin to warn him but Wallace ploughed right in and grabbed the ball so Barnes interrupted himself to give the penalty. He had no choice, really.

rrpc

The Barnes statistic is a bit skewed tbh. He can't ref any games involving England, which means that each weekend of the 6N he has only two options. Of the rest of the refs, Owens can't ref anything involving Wales and Poite can't ref anything involving France. Steve Walsh and Craig Joubert can ref anything and Alain Rolland usually ends up reffing England/Wales v France games because of his fluent French. We've had a fair smattering of Argentinians, Scots and Italians as well.

Now add in two assistants and a TMO and you end up with very limited permutations* when taking nationality into account.




*I'm too lazy/not bored enough to work all those permutations out.

postitnote

So you're saying England are yet to win under Barnes?

Sure what are we complaining about, England are way more conspired against by Barnes based on those stats!

Fireball07

I think we'll win today... don't really know what I'm basing it on- I think we'll really miss SOB and the likes of Fitzgerald, Earls, Zebo and Bowe in the back 3.

But we have the best half-back pairing in the competition imo, and POC back will be a huge boost. If we can get the edge in the scrum, I think we'll win. Defensively, I think we can handle them even if they do have a lot of very big runners.

ScissorPaperRock

If we can nullify their hard running and keep our defensive shape I think we should win it. I think we'll have the edge in the scrum and lineout.

Tox56

Not very confident tbh. Trying to think of it in my head as Leinster v a Welsh club where I always had total confidence that Leinster would win, but it just ain't the same. Can't wait though, well really get a good idea of where this side is (presuming the weather doesn't fcuk everything up)

Tox56

ScissorPaperRock wrote: »

If we can nullify their hard running and keep our defensive shape I think we should win it. I think we'll have the edge in the scrum and lineout.

You don't mention the most important thing, the breakdown. Our ball retention was pretty good at times last week, and it's vitally important to the Schmidt style, but Wales are a big step up in terms of the number of turnovers they win. They destroyed England in that area last year and won the game off the back of it

danthefan

Tox56 wrote: »

You don't mention the most important thing, the breakdown. Our ball retention was pretty good at times last week, and it's vitally important to the Schmidt style, but Wales are a big step up in terms of the number of turnovers they win. They destroyed England in that area last year and won the game off the back of it

Well tbf ball retention is absolutely vital no matter what your style is. I think to have a chance we need to beat up their pack, do a serious job on them really. Not massively confident.

Grimebox

Waterford Whisper News never fails

Tox56

danthefan wrote: »

Well tbf ball retention is absolutely vital no matter what your style is. I think to have a chance we need to beat up their pack, do a serious job on them really. Not massively confident.

True but the way Schmidt likes to keep the ball as a form of defence and going through a high number of phases when attacking means there will obviously be more attacking rucks for us, and more opportunities for Wales to get over the ball. Keeping up a consistent clean out when you're moving all over the pitch is such a difficult thing to do. The man knows what he's doing though...

phog

I can't see anything other than an Irish win, better scrum, lineouts, hoping for better moves off the set piece and better defence.

Both teams played below par last week but I think Joe has this game targetted from the beginning and then Darcy and POC add so much more this week.

Hope it stays dry and calm for the game as it's less of a lottery.

All the players must be well used to Barnes so no excuses, he likes to issue a card or two and he uses the TMO a bit more than the likes of Owens but hopefully that won't take from the game especially for those lucky enough to be in the Aviva.

phog

Kayless wrote: »

Look, the one thing that gives me hope for todays game is that Schmidt has most likely looked at Barnes and given the players some kind of idea of how to play him, this is something I don't think Kidney would have looked at in as much depth so there is hope.

I'd be fairly sure you're 100% incorrect there.

bozzo

the breakdown is always vital, Warburton is undoubtedly one of the finest poachers in world rugby but i think we have more top class poachers(POC, POM, Best, BOD & Wilson). I think if we can focus on blowing Warburton away at the breakdown it'll go a long way to ensuring we've decent ball retention

Tox56

phog wrote: »

I'd be fairly sure you're 100% incorrect there.

Given what I've been reading over the last few weeks, I'd be surprised if anybody looks at anything with the same amount of detail as Schmidt

deadybai

I think Wales will win this game. SOB is a huge loss for us and that small thing in my mind is the difference. Otherwise Id say Ireland would win. Wales just know how to win games, especially on our turf. Gonna be tight but Wales will win. I really hope that I'm wrong.

19543261

Tox56 wrote: »

Given what I've been reading over the last few weeks, I'd be surprised if anybody looks at anything with the same amount of detail as Schmidt

True, but it'd be unfair to assume Kidney didn't even bother looking at such an important factor in the outcome of a game (not saying anyone is, mind).

corny

bozzo wrote: »

the breakdown is always vital, Warburton is undoubtedly one of the finest poachers in world rugby but i think we have more top class poachers(POC, POM, Best, BOD & Wilson). I think if we can focus on blowing Warburton away at the breakdown it'll go a long way to ensuring we've decent ball retention

He makes one or two when he has a good game, which is every third game or so. I think he's one of the most overrated players in the NH tbh. I'd be fairly certain SOB (a converted 7) would affect far more rucks over the course of a season.

The Pheasant2

I'm just looking at the aspect of height in the lineout - Coombs is only 6' 4" and Wyn Jones is their tallest forward at 6' 5"

While we have POC at 6'6", Jamie is also a good option at 6'4" and ofcourse we have the towering Toner at 6'10". Without beanpole Charteris, is their any way they can compete with Toner?

danthefan

Warburton is a fine poacher but that's why we need to get low and just blast him out of the ruck. Our clearouts are going to be vital.

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

While we have POC at 6'6", Jamie is also a good option at 6'4" and ofcourse we have the towering Toner at 6'10". Without beanpole Charteris, is their any way they can compete with Toner?

I suspect our lineout is going to be quite secure on our own throw. Need to get POC, POM, Heaslip up in the air to compete with theirs.

ScissorPaperRock

Tox56 wrote: »

You don't mention the most important thing, the breakdown. Our ball retention was pretty good at times last week, and it's vitally important to the Schmidt style, but Wales are a big step up in terms of the number of turnovers they win. They destroyed England in that area last year and won the game off the back of it

You're right yeah, ball retention will be very important, not least in terms of reducing their opportunities to run at us. But it'll need to be a step up from the first half last week.

The breakdown will be very interesting. Their backrow is great at pilfering ball, and although we're going to miss SOB, we've got players capable of stealing ball all over the park.

To be honest, I think we're well capable of dealing with that, as well as their set pieces. They only thing I'm really nervous about is how well we deal with their direct running. I know we've done it before, but it's still their main strength.

Tox56

danthefan wrote: »

Warburton is a fine poacher but that's why we need to get low and just blast him out of the ruck. Our clearouts are going to be vital.



I suspect our lineout is going to be quite secure on our own throw. Need to get POC, POM, Heaslip up in the air to compete with theirs.

I know Warburton didn start last week but it was Faletau that did most of the damage at the breakdown, 3 or 4 clear pens I think, hes become a fine player

bozzo

well if thats the case than how come we always seem to get it wrong when it comes to Barnes? Surely the Irish players know him well enough by now not to make the same silly mistakes, so whos to blame?[/QUOTE]

Barnes, Barnes is to blame. Its always Barnes.
I'm sure they study him thoroughly but the problem is he's inconsistent even within games, which is what makes him so rubbish. he's the only ref i have a problem with, my usual response to criticism of refs is 'it's a really tough job' & 'he didn't mean to make a mistake' but not Barnes, he f'cks over Ireland & any of our provinces that he ref's. Watch the games.
My theory is its due to 'The Miracle Match'....either that or he had ancestors chalked off over here, but there's def something up!

bozzo

Tox56 wrote: »

I know Warburton didn start last week but it was Faletau that did most of the damage at the breakdown, 3 or 4 clear pens I think, hes become a fine player

He's absolutely class, & all his experience at only 23. He's won the 8 battle v Heaslip the last few times, Schmidt will give Heaslip more freedom than Kidney did which will turn things our way hopefully

Buer

bozzo wrote: »

he f'cks over Ireland & any of our provinces that he ref's. Watch the games.

Maybe you should. This is the guy who was ref when Leinster won away to Clermont and Ospreys and the guy who red carded the Racing player last season in Thomond.