EV Sales 2014

HandsomeDan

MuppetCheck wrote: »

The Golf doesn't push any boundaries but it's plain Jane styling is classier and more pleasing on the eye than the Prius.

I'd drive this:


Over this


And the reason it purely because there isn't an angle you can look at the prius from without it looking odd. It's a borderline ugly car. You can see from the Golf (and the UP) EV that it looks almost identical to the ICE version. It offers a similar tech without you having to wince should you look back at what you've just parked.

MK III prius is pretty cool looking. The golf looks like a converted van.

BMJD

I would (and did) choose a Prius over that Golf every time.

MuppetCheck

BMJD wrote: »

I would (and did) choose a Prius over that Golf every time.

Based on looks or other factors?

I'm only comparing the looks here - nothing else.

BMJD

MuppetCheck wrote: »

Based on looks or other factors?

I'm only comparing the looks here - nothing else.

Looks, reliability, practicality, running costs, etc.

That's comparing a diesel, dunno about the e-Golf yet since it's not out.

naughtysmurf

Do we know what it would cost to replace a faulty battery pack on an out of warranty 4yr old Leaf?

September1

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

I actually had a call from the sales guy who sold me my Leaf 3 years ago. He was wondering was I interested in trading up as there was strong demand for secondhand models. He told me last month was great and he had sold 5 of them himself. I didn't tell him a lot of people were also bringing them in from the UK

That is something that really is interesting to see how it develops. Every single car arrives at time where selling for parts is better option, but with EVs and their massive batteries it seems that this time could be sooner. In other thread on after life I did some calculations and it seems that selling LEAF for less that 3-5k depending on battery status does not make financial sense, yet most of cars are still tradable in those price ranges.

Sesshoumaru

naughtysmurf wrote: »

Do we know what it would cost to replace a faulty battery pack on an out of warranty 4yr old Leaf?

The battery pack has a 5 year warranty across Europe. It guarantees a minimum of 9 out 12 bars on the battery capacity meter. I think in your example you would be getting a new battery pack under warranty. The pack itself is made up of 48 modules, which can be replaced individually. So a repair job might only involve replacing on or more modules from the pack.

Our Leaf still shows 12 out of 12 bars on dashboard capacity meter, that's after about 62,000 kilometers now. We haven't noticed any real drop in range compared to when it was new either.

corkgsxr

naughtysmurf wrote: »

I'd be interested in a Leaf / other EV, the main things holding me back are

1. If I buy now I believe the range could increase considerably over the next few years leaving me with a shorter range car that nobody will want second hand

2. I don't think I do enough milage to justify one, <10K / pa albeit mostly short journeys, so the savings are not huge over the tried & tested

3. I'm not exactly sure what would happen say after four years and some battery issues start to crop up, will this = €€€€€??

I wouldn't expect anything but minor increases that could just be playing with figures. They've been saying it's round the corner for years.

In fairness they do seem to be holding value

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

There is a perception out there that the battery in an EV is like an AA battery you buy in a newsagent, useless once its spent. It's very much a valuable commodity! I'd suggest checking out this thread.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057145444

I do think the technology is progressing fast and wouldn't be surprised if the 2016 Leaf had 50% to 100% more battery capacity than the current model. Nissan have recently tested a Leaf with a 48Kwh battery pack in Spain. You can't always keep holding off for the next model though

Ya thats the dream. Without a major breakthrough there will be no significant increase in range. The current battery tech seems to have peaked.

toadfly

I really like the look of the Prius, wouldn't call it an ugly car. I just put a deposit on a 2012 Leaf, not the best looking car but it will be worth it to me for the savings.

noelf

BMJD wrote: »

I would (and did) choose a Prius over that Golf every time.

I would (and did) choose a golf bluemotion over a prius everytime. Did you get your recall notice yet two million prius are been recalled from 2009 to present for components in transmission overheating causing car to stop

corkgsxr

corkgsxr wrote: »

Ya thats the dream. Without a major breakthrough there will be no significant increase in range. The current battery tech seems to have peaked.

using A Tesla battery there is absolutely no reason a 40 kwh battery can't be installed in the Leaf today, or at least using similar cells.

It's all down to cost, hence the reason Nissan are thinking of offering different battery sizes for the MK II in 2017.

Tesla are promising 200 mile range affordable EV around 2017.

noelf

noelf wrote: »

I would (and did) choose a golf bluemotion over a prius everytime. Did you get your recall notice yet two million prius are been recalled from 2009 to present for components in transmission overheating causing car to stop

Actually it was for the inverter. There is a lot more chance of a VW Golf giving trouble over a Prius.

VW don't recall where as Toyota will recall even if there is only a slight chance of failure where as VAG won't recall at all even when they know of serious failures !

naughtysmurf

naughtysmurf wrote: »

Do we know what it would cost to replace a faulty battery pack on an out of warranty 4yr old Leaf?

Noone knows the cost and even if they did, Nissan will not replace a pack in a Leaf, they'll only repair if it falls below 70% capacity back to around 70%.

only if you lease the pack will they replace it, leasing option isn't offered in Ireland.

If you're doing 10,000 miles a year then you'll easily see 10 years life from new.

If you buy a leaf with 50,000 miles and do 10K a year you should easily see 7 years use because you'd rarely need to run it down to empty with such low mileage. Even at 70% capacity, the Leaf will find plenty of use.

BMJD

noelf wrote: »

I would (and did) choose a golf bluemotion over a prius everytime. Did you get your recall notice yet two million prius are been recalled from 2009 to present for components in transmission overheating causing car to stop

Not yet, it just needs a quick software update. Did you get your Golf recall yet, 3 million VWs being recalled over faulty gearboxes?

jca

Deleted User wrote: »

Actually it was for the inverter. There is a lot more chance of a VW Golf giving trouble over a Prius.

VW don't recall where as Toyota will recall even if there is only a slight chance of failure where as VAG won't recall at all even when they know of serious failures !

That's true. VW are a bit like Microsoft, bang it out flawed and let the customer pick up the pieces.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

jca wrote: »

That's true. VW are a bit like Microsoft, bang it out flawed and let the customer pick up the pieces.

Or BMW of late :P

noelf

BMJD wrote: »

Not yet, it just needs a quick software update. Did you get your Golf recall yet, 3 million VWs being recalled over faulty gearboxes?

Touche I kept clear of dsg

noelf

[Deleted User] wrote: »

using A Tesla battery there is absolutely no reason a 40 kwh battery can't be installed in the Leaf today, or at least using similar cells.

It's all down to cost, hence the reason Nissan are thinking of offering different battery sizes for the MK II in 2017.

Tesla are promising 200 mile range affordable EV around 2017.

According to greencarreports a Israeli company is developing a aluminum air battery with a 1000 ! Mile range with an unnamed car company and aluminum supplier

BMJD

BMJD wrote: »

Not yet, it just needs a quick software update. Did you get your Golf recall yet, 3 million VWs being recalled over faulty gearboxes?

Too much reading after been in front of a screen all day, however it seems the recall in the UK was only in relation to light fuses and not dsg ?

BMJD

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Too much reading after been in front of a screen all day, however it seems the recall in the UK was only in relation to light fuses and not dsg ?

I dunno, I just Googled vw recalls, it was the first of many results

noelf

noelf wrote: »

According to greencarreports a Israeli company is developing a aluminum air battery with a 1000 ! Mile range with an unnamed car company and aluminum supplier

There's a lot of companies, Universities working on Lithium Air including Toyota.

The problem with a 100 kwh battery is trying to charge it in any meaningful time.

I still insist that this is completely unnecessary for most people.

I do 80-84 miles a day and plugging in every night is not a big deal for me. I wouldn't pay for more than 200 miles range.

Sesshoumaru

I just thought this was an interesting comparison to make. The Number of Nissan Leafs sold in all of 2013 versus January to March in 2014.

Mostly PCP sales I expect ?

I have to say I did not find 600Pm with 2500 down as attractive at all and then not owning the car after 3 years.

I know my mileage is high, but that's ridiculous.

September1

Also there are 4 BMW i3 registred this year, 3 ones are marked as electric, 3 electric Fluence and 1 Twizzy.

That brings 331 electrics cars registered since 2011.

loinnsigh

Wow - 3 Fluence Z.E's sold this year. Anyone on here got one?

ba_barabus

loinnsigh wrote: »

Wow - 3 Fluence Z.E's sold this year. Anyone on here got one?

No but I was looking at one this evening. They're dealer demos. Registered but not sold.

naughtysmurf

ba_barabus wrote: »

No but I was looking at one this evening. They're dealer demos. Registered but not sold.

Price?

ted1

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Excellent, I wonder how much of that was down to me ?

50 isn't a huge amount but they sales seem to be gaining traction.

It will be interesting to see how many buy the I3, E-Golf and the Mercedes B class EV.

But it's nice to see that there were more sold in Jan than all of last year.

Global ev sales are predicted to explode this year.

How many if them were token
Fleet cars V domestic purchasers

ba_barabus

naughtysmurf wrote: »

Price?

No idea. They're parked outside Michael Grant's in Sandymount. I was filling up with diesel next door in Maxol and walked over to have a look at them. Boot space is errrrr limited in them.

naughtysmurf

ba_barabus wrote: »

No idea. They're parked outside Michael Grant's in Sandymount. I was filling up with diesel next door in Maxol and walked over to have a look at them. Boot space is errrrr limited in them.

Well, that's what happens when you fill it up with batteries BUT nicer looking than the leaf IMO, can't find any info at all on the Renault.ie site about them.

ted1

The RHD tesla is due very very soon. It'll be nice to see what the take up is like.

loinnsigh

ba_barabus wrote: »

No but I was looking at one this evening. They're dealer demos. Registered but not sold.

That would make sense. I had a look at one in a Renault dealer a few weeks ago and the sales guy implied I must have some kind of mental disorder to be even considering one. Renault Ireland have a load of Fluence Z.E's gathering dust apparently. Renault have stopped producing them.

I picked up my new LEAF 4 days ago so I'm responsible for 1/29th of the March stats... Very impressed with it so far

September1

So, let see how things worked out:
http://www.esb.ie/electric-cars/electric-car-news-and-events/electric-car-press-releases/electric-cars-a-reality-for-ireland.jsp

We were suposed to have 2000 cars in 2011 but have about 400 in 2014. It seems that car manufacturers failed to attract public, they also failed to deliver. There are currently few cars in production that are not sold in Ireland:
- Tesla X
- electric Ford Focus
- electric Toyota RAV4
- electric Fiat 500
- electric Golf
- Smart ED
- Honda Fit EV
and quite a few of Chinese EV cars.
Special hell waits for makers of those two cars, which are available in UK but not here:
- Chevrolet Volt or Opel/Vauxhall Ampera
- Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV
- Renault ZOE
ESB supposed to install 1500 public chargers - maps shows 427 in RoI. It seems that ESB did job well, as they scaled down on on-street charging, scaled up on fast charging and restricted plans in reflection of poor EV sales.

It also means that if we include private charge points then there is more than 2 for every EV, maybe ESB is too optimistic?

R.O.R

September1 wrote: »

- Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV

There was a branded one of these outside Mitsubishi Ireland when I went past there, a couple of weeks ago.

Don't see any pricing available yet, seems like a funny yoke to make Electric.


BMW are struggling for availability of the i3 in Ireland. Such short supply that we weren't even allowed to drive the BMW demo model - presume it's already found a home when BMW finished showing it off.

Wouldn't have minded a spin - very strange car on the inside. Finish on some trim panels is very similar to my Fibreglassing efforts on my first car.....

September1

September1 wrote: »

So, let see how things worked out:
http://www.esb.ie/electric-cars/electric-car-news-and-events/electric-car-press-releases/electric-cars-a-reality-for-ireland.jsp

We were suposed to have 2000 cars in 2011 but have about 400 in 2014. It seems that car manufacturers failed to attract public, they also failed to deliver. There are currently few cars in production that are not sold in Ireland:
- Tesla X
- electric Ford Focus
- electric Toyota RAV4
- electric Fiat 500
- electric Golf
- Smart ED
- Honda Fit EV
and quite a few of Chinese EV cars.
Special hell waits for makers of those two cars, which are available in UK but not here:
- Chevrolet Volt or Opel/Vauxhall Ampera
- Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV
- Renault ZOE
ESB supposed to install 1500 public chargers - maps shows 427 in RoI. It seems that ESB did job well, as they scaled down on on-street charging, scaled up on fast charging and restricted plans in reflection of poor EV sales.

It also means that if we include private charge points then there is more than 2 for every EV, maybe ESB is too optimistic?

Some of the cars above are U.S compliance cars made for California only with the exception of the E-Golf, Model S and Smart, Zoe and the New outlander Plug In.

I do admit that with the exception of the Model S there are no perfect ev's yet.

The leaf, even if it had 500 miles range would still not suit everyone and there are many that won't buy it just because it's a Nissan. You're not going to convince die hard Audi, BMW and Merc drivers to buy a Nissan electric because the neighbours might thing they're poor.

More people might pay extra for the I3 and Golf. The PCP rates on the I3 are horrific and that's most likely for 10,000 miles a year.

RedorDead

14 hours from Belfast to Cork.

This is why Electric cars are still years away from being market ready IMO.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/14-hour-electric-car-trek-nearly-came-up-short-on-almost-impossible-journey-265387.html

ba_barabus

RedorDead wrote: »

14 hours from Belfast to Cork.

This is why Electric cars are still years away from being market ready IMO.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/14-hour-electric-car-trek-nearly-came-up-short-on-almost-impossible-journey-265387.html

It misses the entire point of these cars. They're at their best doing short journeys and occasional long ones. I really think they suit families with two cars or people who very rarely go on a long trip.

It would work for me doing 25000 miles a year, hardly a useless car.

Not often I drive Belfast to Cork so I couldn't care less. But if I needed to I'd take the prius.

25000 miles a year between my work commute and weekend trips, run-a-bouts etc, 100,000 miles in 5 years. Yeah such a useless car the Leaf !

Remember the limit is not technology but cost and especially car manufacturers resistance to electric cars, think VW-E-golf, I3 etc, the German car makers could have offered a real 100-140 mile range car if they wanted to, but they don't and it's as simple as that.

RedorDead

ba_barabus wrote: »

It misses the entire point of these cars. They're at their best doing short journeys and occasional long ones. I really think they suit families with two cars or people who very rarely go on a long trip.

My point is customers must compromise when you purchase one. To gain general acceptance amongst all buyers you cannot take 14 hours to drive from Belfast to Cork. Why should you need to compromise?

RedorDead

Deleted User wrote: »

It would work for me doing 25000 miles a year, hardly a useless car.

Not often I drive Belfast to Cork so I couldn't care less. But if I needed to I'd take the prius.

25000 miles a year between my work commute and weekend trips, run-a-bouts etc, 100,000 miles in 5 years. Yeah such a useless car the Leaf !

Remember the limit is not technology but cost and especially car manufacturers resistance to electric cars, think VW-E-golf, I3 etc, the German car makers could have offered a real 100-140 mile range car if they wanted to, but they don't and it's as simple as that.

I never used the word useless. I said they are still years off general market acceptance.

ba_barabus

RedorDead wrote: »

My point is customers must compromise when you purchase one. To gain general acceptance amongst all buyers you cannot take 14 hours to drive from Belfast to Cork. Why should you need to compromise?

Customers must currently compromise if buying diesel and avoid buying one for short journeys. It's a car being asked to take a long journey when it's not built to do so. It's perfect for people doing short trips. I'd wager most two car families who have two new vehicles would be better off having one of these and and another car rather than two conventially fuelled cars.

ba_barabus

RedorDead wrote: »

I never used the word useless. I said they are still years off general market acceptance.

True but new technology or applications can take time. This is especially true. I still know people who think Prius's are scary technology that'll never catch on and that Skodas are old commi tat. With cars people are slow to recognise a good change.

Scottie99

Was speaking to Nissan salesman, he was saying sales are really picking up.

RedorDead

RedorDead wrote: »

My point is customers must compromise when you purchase one. To gain general acceptance amongst all buyers you cannot take 14 hours to drive from Belfast to Cork. Why should you need to compromise?

The problem as I see it was in part their mistake of route option and failure to use the E-cars charge point map which shows if chargers are on-line or not.

I didn't have time to read it all yet, but I probably couldn't be bothered, it seems like these people had an agenda.....

Lutecia

Doing a "Belfast-Cork trip in 14 hours" shows 3 things:
* This is just a negative catch phrase (he returned in 9 hours)
* Driver didn't do well. 8 hours should be enough. And yes that's still considerably more than with a petrol/diesel car.
* It's NOT THE PURPOSE of this car ! It's like going test driving Audi TT, to the garden center, buying some trees and saying that it's a rubbish car because it can't carry all these trees at once (same for a school run). I know that if you own a TT, you would then borrow the Jeep of a friend/family or rent something. Well you can do just the same with an electric vehicle.

It's not all beautiful because it's a new technology, but from the moment you consider an EV like what it should be (ie a commuter), then you should be fine.

PS: Yes I own an EV, yet it's my one and only car, and no I can't charge at home (I rely on public charging infrastructure) though never been stranded. With all the money saved, I'll happily rent a car if I need to go to Belfast sometime

H.E. Pennypacker

Maybe I'm missing something but...

Distance from Larne to Dublin by road is 202km, according to Google maps. You'd hope that they had the wit to charge the car before they set off.

From the article:

"With a 30-minute charge typically allowing for 130km on the road, the car was charged four times before it reached Dublin — in Belfast, Newry, and then on both Apple Green stops on the M1 south of the border."

Larne to Belfast is 41km - the car needed to be charged after that distance?

And then:

"The car was also charged in Dublin and at Junction 14 on the M7 in Kildare."

Distance from Dublin to J14 on the M7 is in the region of 60km.

Edit:

The article was light on detail/badly written (apart from the poor performance of the car) but it seems that four people and their luggage were carried in the car. A bit more detail on the driving style/EV driving experience would be a big help in explaining the approx 60km range of the car

H.E. Pennypacker

H.E. Pennypacker wrote: »

Maybe I'm missing something but...

Distance from Larne to Dublin by road is 202km, according to Google maps. You'd hope that they had the wit to charge the car before they set off.

From the article:

"With a 30-minute charge typically allowing for 130km on the road, the car was charged four times before it reached Dublin — in Belfast, Newry, and then on both Apple Green stops on the M1 south of the border."

Larne to Belfast is 41km - the car needed to be charged after that distance?

And then:

"The car was also charged in Dublin and at Junction 14 on the M7 in Kildare."

Distance from Dublin to J14 on the M7 is in the region of 60km.

Edit:

The article was light on detail/badly written (apart from the poor performance of the car) but it seems that four people and their luggage were carried in the car. A bit more detail on the driving style/EV driving experience would be a big help in explaining the approx 60km range of the car

People can print what they want, it's up to the people reading to do their own research.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

RedorDead wrote: »

I never used the word useless. I said they are still years off general market acceptance.

You'll have a hard time convincing MadLad of that though, god knows I've tried for some time!

H.E. Pennypacker

Deleted User wrote: »

People can print what they want, it's up to the people reading to do their own research.

Absolutely. I'm surprised that such a journey was undertaken by people who seem to have had little understanding of what they were driving. If you look at the mileage between stops you'll notice that the range improved significantly after the Mayfield stop. Even allowing for other variables it looks like either they finally learned how to drive more efficiently or swapped to a more insightful driver.

AllGunsBlazing

Personally i love the whole 'concept car made reality' look of most EV's. I guess its a matter of personal taste, but it always turns my head when a car goes by that looks a little different from the rest of the herd.