SHEEP FARMING

Gballs

Hi Folks,

Is anyone willing to share their NET profit per ewe EXCLUDING all payments, also stocking rate, weaning rate and anything else they think is relevant to sheep farming viability.
I am about to make a very big decision and need some real facts, none of this BS fron teagasc.
Rancher I'd be very interested in your figures if your willing, and any other sheep farmer.

Gballs

Ps. Thanks..........

rancher

Gballs wrote: »

Hi Folks,

Is anyone willing to share their NET profit per ewe EXCLUDING all payments, also stocking rate, weaning rate and anything else they think is relevant to sheep farming viability.
I am about to make a very big decision and need some real facts, none of this BS fron teagasc.
Rancher I'd be very interested in your figures if your willing, and any other sheep farmer.

I have no problem putting it up. I'm not detailing fixed costs because everyone knows their own but ours would average €300/ha.
A few considerations.
1. Our system is cereal based, which is a more expensive system. ( but easier work)
2. We buy the ration in bags delivered so you could save 10% by collecting in bulk,
3.I don't want dairy farmers sympathy on such a poor income
4. lambing % includes ewe lambs

I haven't got the report back from teagasc on last years so I'm putting up 11 + 12, 11 was a good year and 12 was a **** year so you can pull an average.
ePM.jpg

ePM2011.jpg

supersean1999

rancher wrote: »

I have no problem putting it up. I'm not detailing fixed costs because everyone knows their own but ours would average €300/ha.
A few considerations.
1. Our system is cereal based, which is a more expensive system. ( but easier work)
2. We buy the ration in bags delivered so you could save 10% by collecting in bulk,
3.I don't want dairy farmers sympathy on such a poor income
4. lambing % includes ewe lambs

I haven't got the report back from teagasc on last years so I'm putting up 11 + 12, 11 was a good year and 12 was a **** year so you can pull an average.
ePM.jpg

ePM2011.jpg

There good figures, fair play to you putting them up,

rancher

supersean1999 wrote: »

There good figures, fair play to you putting them up,

Just shows you sheep are alright if you could get a straightforward year like 2011, my land is heavy and the rain of 2012 destroyed my lambs, they wouldn't thrive and spring growth was late enough too but not as late as 2013.
I need 2014 now to be a normal/straightforward year now to get my confidence back

Lano Lynn

wish I was doing as good a job, hate office,know I should be performing better and keeping better track of financials.
how do you manage for winter fodder? there is no costs included.

what a difference a year makes!still trying to clear 2013 meal bill ,double usual cost.:(

rancher

Lano Lynn wrote: »

wish I was doing as good a job, hate office,know I should be performing better and keeping better track of financials.
how do you manage for winter fodder? there is no costs included.

what a difference a year makes!still trying to clear 2013 meal bill ,double usual cost.:(

Feed meal and they eat straw from their bed for roughage, hence the straw bill. 1lb meal + straw is equal to adlib silage....much easier and cleaner than silage,
Should've said about 2012 straw, usually buy extra straw here in jan for feb and mar, and I did in 2012, But my supplier phoned me in dec 2012 to tell me that straw was going quick and did I want any, so I got 2013 straw in 2012, so straw should be around 3500- 3800.
Like yourself my 2013 profit won't be great either

Lano Lynn

good system unfortunatly I'm the wrong side of the country to feed straw only.would like to try pea straw some time

Gballs

Fair play is right Rancher and thanks a million, I had a agri advisor out thursday and was strongly advised to leave the farm rented and stay away from sheep farming.
I want to rent 62 acres to top up the 80 I have, buy the SFP from the 62 acre farm €8350 - 10% farm renting at whats looking like €12000. The reason I want to rent is 62 tillage acres which would give me some security against the 40 of the 80 acres thats very poor in a wet year. Its a 7 yr lease and trying to find land to rent around me, makes looking looking for gold easy. It also comes with a house which would let me rent my house in town and move out the country and also a 5 bay double slatted plus hay shed.
Year 1 With 250 / 300 ewe lambs put to ram, use 62 acres for oats, silage/hay and tyfon, then build numbers up fairly quickly to 500.
Fingers crossed I will have an alternative income but I'm not going into sheep farming for the fun, I do love farming but I want it to be profitable.
But after what I read in the FJ today i'm not sure I'll get any SFP, unless they do something for new entrance.
All advice welcome............

rancher

Gballs wrote: »

Fair play is right Rancher and thanks a million, I had a agri advisor out thursday and was strongly advised to leave the farm rented and stay away from sheep farming.
I want to rent 62 acres to top up the 80 I have, buy the SFP from the 62 acre farm €8350 - 10% farm renting at whats looking like €12000. The reason I want to rent is 62 tillage acres which would give me some security against the 40 of the 80 acres thats very poor in a wet year. Its a 7 yr lease and trying to find land to rent around me, makes looking looking for gold easy. It also comes with a house which would let me rent my house in town and move out the country and also a 5 bay double slatted plus hay shed.
Year 1 With 250 / 300 ewe lambs put to ram, use 62 acres for oats, silage/hay and tyfon, then build numbers up fairly quickly to 500.
Fingers crossed I will have an alternative income but I'm not going into sheep farming for the fun, I do love farming but I want it to be profitable.
But after what I read in the FJ today i'm not sure I'll get any SFP, unless they do something for new entrance.
All advice welcome............

Attention to detail is important.
1.Silage is a good breeding ground for listeria which causes abortion outbreaks, badly made round bales are notorious for it. Making hay is nearly impossible most years in this country.
2. Number of lambs on the ground is your profit Mind them well at tupping
to ensure best lambing rate. use a good vaccination programme to ensure that when you have a good crop you keep them alive, If you're buying 250 ewes from maybe 20 different farms, you'll more than likely buy in enzootic abortion so include that in your vaccination, also toxoplasmosis.
We do all of that and record 6% losses from scanning to weaning.
3 You'll get a baptism of fire with ewe lambs, they need better management, better feeding and more accurate feeding before they lamb.
4. Fluke is another killer, you'd need to talk to your vet on that as your land is wet
You'll have a lot of expense upfront, even those vaccines will cost €9/ewe, and I haven't even mentioned schnmallenberg.
May be I'm over the top, but have had abortion storms and they'd pay vaccine costs for a good few years.
Anyway best of luck

Lano Lynn

100% agree ranger.
G when an oppertunity presents itself but the sums don't add up you may have to balance the equation with hard to quantify aspects that 'advisors' cannot fit into their A4 imaginations.
I rent 35 acres it isnt making feck all over covering costs (on 11mths so no aeos)but it is on my doorstep and has great shelter for ewes and lambs.
previous tenants were 'fence averse' happy to have cattle trash banks,hedges,fence ,then my lambs would start creep grazing.

Take the chance and take your time you don't have to push up numbers just cos dats the plan,steady as she goes.

Instead of ewe lambs would a 200 full mouth horned or cheviot ewes not be an idea n breed up from that,lower capital cost & higher output and less hastle than ewe lambs.

why oats?same cultivation costs etc for less output than other cereals

rancher

Lano Lynn wrote: »

100% agree ranger.
G when an oppertunity presents itself but the sums don't add up you may have to balance the equation with hard to quantify aspects that 'advisors' cannot fit into their A4 imaginations.
I rent 35 acres it isnt making feck all over covering costs (on 11mths so no aeos)but it is on my doorstep and has great shelter for ewes and lambs.
previous tenants were 'fence averse' happy to have cattle trash banks,hedges,fence ,then my lambs would start creep grazing.

Take the chance and take your time you don't have to push up numbers just cos dats the plan,steady as she goes.

Instead of ewe lambs would a 200 full mouth horned or cheviot ewes not be an idea n breed up from that,lower capital cost & higher output and less hastle than ewe lambs.

why oats?same cultivation costs etc for less output than other cereals

and they'd have done it before.......there would be only one of you learning.
Good post

AnFeirmeoir

Thanks for uploading this. It's a great reference /target.

€130 lamb output per ewe across all your ewes including ewe lambs seems a great figure. €100 per lamb is our target but usually average low 90s
Do you finish many of your lambs off grass or do you give most of them some conc to finish. ?
Also €5 per ewe for wool is great . I'm not getting anything like this. Do you shear twice a year ?

rancher

AnFeirmeoir wrote: »

Thanks for uploading this. It's a great reference /target.

€130 lamb output per ewe across all your ewes including ewe lambs seems a great figure. €100 per lamb is our target but usually average low 90s
Do you finish many of your lambs off grass or do you give most of them some conc to finish. ?
Also €5 per ewe for wool is great . I'm not getting anything like this. Do you shear twice a year ?

2011, 75% were sold without conc, 2012 lambs took on average 35kg to finish.
shear once a year in aug/sept.
I've said before, there's loads of opportunities to cut costs in those accounts, but I am not looking to increase output,
if I can maintain it I'll be happy. lucky to have good land.

Edit, just after looking at the 2011 wool, I shore the cull ewes after weaning, I do it sometimes as they do a good thrive for a mth after.
So there would be 620 shorn which would bring it back to probably what you're getting

tomwaterford

have you included a fencing cost???
could you give a rough idea of the costs involved reseeding,buying stock,rent per acre etc....it is something interesting...I would to rent land if opportunity ever arose...might never though.be nice to see cost breakdown all the same

rancher

tomwaterford wrote: »

have you included a fencing cost???
could you give a rough idea of the costs involved reseeding,buying stock,rent per acre etc....it is something interesting...I would to rent land if opportunity ever arose...might never though.be nice to see cost breakdown all the same

I just put up the variable costs, most farmers know their own fixed costs, ie fencing, machinery costs, etc If I put up everything you're looking for it just wouldn't make sense, so I'll just say if you want to start from scratch and make a profit, don't farm sheep

tomwaterford

rancher wrote: »

I just put up the variable costs, most farmers know their own fixed costs, ie fencing, machinery costs, etc If I put up everything you're looking for it just wouldn't make sense, so I'll just say if you want to start from scratch and make a profit, don't farm sheep

I meant to ask the op fencing costs....not knocking your put up costs!!
I was just wondering roughly what size paddocks etc and reseeding costs of tillage ground would be....

Gballs

Thanks for the advice and the encouragement, I fully agree Rancher try cover as many bases as possible. I'm not fully decided as to what age sheep to buy, ewe lambs, hoggets, 2yr olds or 3/4 yr olds. I was thinking with ewe lambs, low ish costs and and young strong sheep. I have lambed sheep before but its been a good few years I'm hoping its like riding a bike .
Start up costs will be high very high,
1. Fencing €2500 - €5000
2. Drainage €5000 - €10000 (have a digger)
3. Sheep €30000 - €50000
4. Land rental + SFP €20000 - €25000
5. Running costs €10000 - €20000
And God knows what else.

eorna

i'd be careful to start with ewe lambs, in my opinion to breed ewe lambs you want to know what you are at, as said before they'll need better management, you are likely to have more loses/ rejections...which in the first year might end being extra hardship which nobody wants

tomwaterford

Gballs wrote: »

Thanks for the advice and the encouragement, I fully agree Rancher try cover as many bases as possible. I'm not fully decided as to what age sheep to buy, ewe lambs, hoggets, 2yr olds or 3/4 yr olds. I was thinking with ewe lambs, low ish costs and and young strong sheep. I have lambed sheep before but its been a good few years I'm hoping its like riding a bike .
Start up costs will be high very high,
1. Fencing €2500 - €5000
2. Drainage €5000 - €10000 (have a digger)
3. Sheep €30000 - €50000
4. Land rental + SFP €20000 - €25000
5. Running costs €10000 - €20000
And God knows what else.

a mix of each say 80 ewe lambs 120 hoggets rest a mixture
best of luck with it anyway & hope you keep us updated:)

Lano Lynn

not wishing to put you off or contradict my previous post but aint it a bitch that the landlord is going to get more out of this than you.have to struggle with this myself ,once again the guy doing the graft and taking the risk has to carry the can:mad:

tomwaterford

Lano Lynn wrote: »

not wishing to put you off or contradict my previous post but aint it a bitch that the landlord is going to get more out of this than you.have to struggle with this myself ,once again the guy doing the graft and taking the risk has to carry the can:mad:

sometimes when you see the amounts dairy farmer are paying in rent (am surrounded by them)
I do be thinking would I be better renting at times???