" Dubliners have more in common with the British than with fellow Irish "

TheMza

I'd rather be associated with England than anywhere outside Dublin or Wicklow.

Aphex

Can we not just forget all the geographical crap and get along..
That goes for all countries.

The world would be a much better place if more people did so.

We are all the same deep down, no matter what way you look at it.

Hippy rant over.

miss no stars

What a disappointing article. The topic actually has potential to be very interesting, instead it's just lazy generalizations. I'd be inclined to say that Dublin people have about as little in common with English people as they have with country people.

First off, it's the only city of city size in Ireland. Other cities are glorified towns and far more parochial in nature. I'm not saying that that's anything against other "cities" in Ireland, I really like Cork and Galway, but they're just not true cities - they're towns by size and by nature. Cork borderline, I'd say. Yet by English benchmarks, Dublin is tiny and very low density.

Secondly, Dublin is, always has been and probably always will be far more diverse than the rest of the country. And that goes waaaaaaaaaaaaay back. That level of difference in diversity means that Dublin attitudes will ALWAYS be different to attitudes elsewhere.

Then you have to look at the history of Dublin - it reads very differently to the history of the rest of the country. My bf mentioned that an area near me sounds very English, doesn't sound Irish at all. I just thought it sounds very Dublin. Don't forget, Irish has pretty much never been the spoken language of Dublin. It's a viking and norman city and the placenames are as likely to reflect that as to reflect it being in the country of Ireland. There are plenty of people in Dublin who can easily trace roots back to England. I can and I don't even have to go that far back.

Another thing that will make Dublin people less like the rest of the country is that habits are more urban even when you go back several generations. "Where would you go for a cup of sugar if you ran out?" eh... To the shop. That kind of letting yourself in the backdoor of the neighbour's house doesn't exist here. It'd be downright odd and rude for the neighbour to call around to the backdoor and the to ask for something they could as easily get in the shop that's only a couple of minutes away!

But Dublin people are as Irish as anyone from anywhere else in Ireland, it's just a different type of Irishness. Look at many of the playwrights, if you want an example. Dubliners through and through. Held up as fine examples of Irishness. But certainly not like people from the countryside.

Anyway, it's a pity about the article. So much scope for a really interesting cultural and historical comparison, but falls flat on its face.

sadie06

What is a 'true Dub' though? I'm from Dublin, and so is my dad, whose parents were from Kerry and Kilkenny. My Mother is from Kilkenny, with parents from Wexford and Kilkenny. Of my friends, I'd say the split is about 60/40, the former being those whose families are Dubs going back generations, the latter being those with a close relation (parents or grandparents) from other parts of the country.

On and on it continues. Only one of my siblings married a Dub, myself and the others married 'country' people. My argument being that a large part of the Dublin population were borne of parents from other counties, and a large part of the population were themselves born in other counties.

I personally detest the Dublin vs The Rest mentality, but I haven't encountered that often in real life.

I am however, extremely confused at the frenzy surrounding the Garth Brooks concerts, but I don't think that's because I'm from Dublin. I love lots of country music (Lyle Lovett, Emmylou Harris, even our own Ray Lynam) but Garth, no.

Davarus Walrus

I'm one of the last true sons of Róisín. A proud Celt who ignores the nefarious influence of Sassanach culture. My days are spent playing hurling against the side of a mountain, fishing from the crystal clear lakes of our land, and teaching my sons Ceithearnach, Muirghius and Tomaltach about the evils of Perfidious Albion.

Jackeen and country gobdaw are both entranced with WASP culture.

dd972

Davarus Walrus wrote: »

I'm one of the last true sons of Róisín. A proud Celt who ignores the nefarious influence of Sassanach culture. My days are spent playing hurling against the side of a mountain, fishing from the crystal clear lakes of our land, and teaching my sons Ceithearnach, Muirghius and Tomaltach about the evils of Perfidious Albion.

Jackeen and country gobdaw are both entranced with WASP culture.

Why isn't your post written As Gaelige then?

SEPT 23 1989

sadie06 wrote: »

What is a 'true Dub' though? I'm from Dublin, and so is my dad, whose parents were from Kerry and Kilkenny. My Mother is from Kilkenny, with parents from Wexford and Kilkenny. .

too much country blood in that mix to be a true blue Dub

Davarus Walrus

dd972 wrote: »

Why isn't your post written As Gaelige then?

Because the modern day latchico who identifies himself as Irish usually doesn't even have a rudimentary grounding in the native tongue. Knows more about Stephen Gerard's distribution rate than he does about the culture of the land he was born in.

miss no stars

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

too much country blood in that mix to be a true blue Dub

Yup. Both parents should be from Dublin and at least 3 out of 4 grandparents from Dublin. Otherwise you're second generation country.

donegal__road

years ago, myself and a friend shared student accommodation with a lad from Dalkey in a regional town in the NW. After the first week we all decided to hand in our notice and look for somewhere else to live, which didn't go down very well with the landlord, who proceeded to give my friend and the guy from Dalkey a right bolloking.

I remember the guy from Dalkey saying how angered he was at the fact that a 'man from the country' had the nerve to speak to him like that.

This was a first time I ever experienced this attitude... this guy actually saw himself as being above people from rural Ireland.

freddiek

"a right bolloking"

are terms such as this commonly used in Donegal?

My name is URL

suicide_circus wrote: »

this is a photo of the author of that piece

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/About/General/2009/10/16/1255690770426/Darragh-McManus-002.jpg

I sh1t you not

He looks like he's just undergone open brain surgery

Fratton Fred

donegal__road wrote: »

years ago, myself and a friend shared student accommodation with a lad from Dalkey in a regional town in the NW. After the first week we all decided to hand in our notice and look for somewhere else to live, which didn't go down very well with the landlord, who proceeded to give my friend and the guy from Dalkey a right bolloking.

I remember the guy from Dalkey saying how angered he was at the fact that a 'man from the country' had the nerve to speak to him like that.

This was a first time I ever experienced this attitude... this guy actually saw himself as being above people from rural Ireland.

That's typical of Dalkey people. Probably grew up in a council house but thinks he's nobility.

gw80

miss no stars wrote: »

What a disappointing article. The topic actually has potential to be very interesting, instead it's just lazy generalizations. I'd be inclined to say that Dublin people have about as little in common with English people as they have with country people.

First off, it's the only city of city size in Ireland. Other cities are glorified towns and far more parochial in nature. I'm not saying that that's anything against other "cities" in Ireland, I really like Cork and Galway, but they're just not true cities - they're towns by size and by nature. Cork borderline, I'd say. Yet by English benchmarks, Dublin is tiny and very low density.

Secondly, Dublin is, always has been and probably always will be far more diverse than the rest of the country. And that goes waaaaaaaaaaaaay back. That level of difference in diversity means that Dublin attitudes will ALWAYS be different to attitudes elsewhere.

Then you have to look at the history of Dublin - it reads very differently to the history of the rest of the country. My bf mentioned that an area near me sounds very English, doesn't sound Irish at all. I just thought it sounds very Dublin. Don't forget, Irish has pretty much never been the spoken language of Dublin. It's a viking and norman city and the placenames are as likely to reflect that as to reflect it being in the country of Ireland. There are plenty of people in Dublin who can easily trace roots back to England. I can and I don't even have to go that far back.

Another thing that will make Dublin people less like the rest of the country is that habits are more urban even when you go back several generations. "Where would you go for a cup of sugar if you ran out?" eh... To the shop. That kind of letting yourself in the backdoor of the neighbour's house doesn't exist here. It'd be downright odd and rude for the neighbour to call around to the backdoor and the to ask for something they could as easily get in the shop that's only a couple of minutes away!

But Dublin people are as Irish as anyone from anywhere else in Ireland, it's just a different type of Irishness. Look at many of the playwrights, if you want an example. Dubliners through and through. Held up as fine examples of Irishness. But certainly not like people from the countryside.

Anyway, it's a pity about the article. So much scope for a really interesting cultural and historical comparison, but falls flat on its face.

I find some of that a little odd tbh, I grew up in waterford city (a glorified town ill grant you) but I grew up on a housing estate, so I cant really see how growing up on a housing estate in dublin would be all that different to growing up where I did, or cork or limerick and so forth.
Its all urban really.

For example, If I needed milk I didnt have to pop outside to the field and pull the tits off a cow, we also had shops, believe it or not,

TireeTerror

gw80 wrote: »

.

For example, If I needed milk I didnt have to pop outside to the field and pull the tits off a cow, we also had shops, believe it or not,

HAHAHA pull the tits off a cow, clearly an urbanite!

Son Of A Vidic

freddiek wrote: »

" Dubliners West Brits have more in common with the British than with fellow the Irish "

:pac:

MonstaMash

I'm pure Dub through & through, me da was from the Iveagh Trust in the Liberties, me ma was from the Coombe, my OH is a Tipperary woman.

I work in Dublin during the week & head down to Tipperary to the missus for the weekend.

You get slagging in the boozer of the locals, the usual Jackeen shoite.

I just explain to them that I'm a Dub not a Jackeen, a Jackeen was a resident from within the Pale whose loyalties were to the Union Jack & the crown.

I remind them of Padraig Pearse's words, "united we stand, divided we fall" & that the British tactic of 'divide & conquer' was the main tool of imperialism employed in Ireland.

By spouting anti-Dub sentiments they are only displaying a deeply ingrained predjudice instilled by the British tactics of yore.

End of history lesson, call me a Jackeen again & we're going to have an issue...mines a pint of plain, cheers

Ray Palmer

Being 5th generation Dubliner with very nationalist upbringing and parents I certainly don't feel like I am British. Having spent time in the UK I certainly know that culturally we are so different.

I can be very Irish and dislike GAA and diddly eye music. Having different tastes doesn't stop me being Irish and joking about red heads is not an anti-Irish thing either. It goes back to the bible as Judas is a red head

Davarus Walrus

Ye're as Dublin as coddle, Millennium milk bottles and Rashers Tierney.

Yeah_Right

The whole big city vs the rest of the country isn't just an Irish thing. From my experience if you talk to people from outside the big city they will slag it off. The French with Paris, the Germans with Berlin, the Dutch with Amsterdam, the English with London, the Kiwis with Auckland, the Aussies with Sydney, the Yanks with New York etc.

orangesoda

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Thats fair enough, but I dont get why we get to be proud because of where we are from - it's not like we had anything to do with it! Be proud because of something you've achieved, not a circumstance. There's nobody better or worse than anyone else just because of where they are from. We're so small, we should stick together. The whole Dublin v The Rest of Ireland mentality saddens me tbh. I was at a work meeting one day and got chatting to someone about a match and she said she was happy X county had won. "Oh", I said, "Are you from there?" and she looked at me like I had two heads and said, "No, but you know...anyone but Dublin to win" - she practically sneered. What's that about? By all means support your own county but she was
practically malicious

I don't mind the county football team, they add a bit of culture to the gaa and they have won me alot of money recently. A relative of mine once shared his sandwiches with those big bad dubliners on hill 16 in 1993

jimgoose

Wesht-Brit hoors, the lot of 'em. Big Tom be your on'y man, hi! :cool:

jimgoose

TireeTerror wrote: »

HAHAHA pull the tits off a cow, clearly an urbanite!

Well consider who discovered how to milk a cow way back in the day - what the actual furk was he trying to do??

diomed

Its obvious the culchies are excited about -
1 a trip to Dublin
2 a trip to Croke Park
3 Garth Brooks not so much

Wolf Club

I find it perplexing and amusing how people think the cultural differences between people from Dublin and people from the country are so big, especially given the size and population of this country. It really shows how small minded a lot of people can be.

gw80

jimgoose wrote: »

Well consider who discovered how to milk a cow way back in the day - what the actual furk was he trying to do??

Maybe he watched the calfs suckling and figured if its good enough for a calf to get nurishment from maybe it is good enough for people too.



or maybe he was just a dirty b%$*erd:pac:

Fratton Fred

diomed wrote: »

Its obvious the culchies are excited about -
1 a trip to Dublin
2 a trip to Croke Park
3 Garth Brooks not so much

4. A few drinks in Flannery's and getting the ride in Coppers

dissed doc

Wolf Club wrote: »

I find it perplexing and amusing how people think the cultural differences between people from Dublin and people from the country are so big, especially given the size and population of this country. It really shows how small minded a lot of people can be.

It's completely true though on several levels. Size of the country is also not relevant; people in Volendam are completely different (inclusing language) to people in Amsterdam, just 30km away.

Dublin is much more "wannabee Britain" with regard to the south side, which is completely different to the North side culture. And north side Dublin accent is like a harsh east London dialect if you spent enough time in Bristol.

EyeSight

I think the problem is the lack of development in other cities. I live in Dublin(not from there) and its infrastructure, economy and recreational activities are much better.
The other major irish cities are so small and quiet in comparison(which is a shame). Dublin can only be compared to other similar built up cities in Britain

statesaver

What a rag comic of a "newspaper". Along with the Sindo

Knob Longman

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

it must be really really easy to get a job as a journalist

Irish journalism is cringe worthy, Bog standard journalists terrified of offending their bosses by investigating anything so instead they write shít like this article.


Dublin isn't as parochial as the countryside so its perceived "wannabee Britishness" is probably only in the eyes of a insular person.

Irish Guitarist

Their worldview can be summarised as "British good, Irish bad. Man United good, hurling bad. The Beatles good, Irish trad bad. BBC good, RTE bad."

It's true. Only the British and people from Dublin like The Beatles. No one from any other part of the world is a fan of this little known Merseybeat combo. They just never had much success outside of their own country, except for in Dublin.

miss no stars

dissed doc wrote: »

Dublin is much more "wannabee Britain" with regard to the south side, which is completely different to the North side culture. And north side Dublin accent is like a harsh east London dialect if you spent enough time in Bristol.

North side accent? Which one? Malahide? Darndale? Howth? Blanchardstown?


Now there's a misconception about Dublin... Like as if the North-South divide was clear cut and defined... Nice areas and scummy areas on both sides of the city with many areas having their own accent.

Yellowblackbird

Gur cake, coals blocks and coddle. Fifteen of us in a tenement room. The Liberties, Forty coats and Des Curley.

Quintessentially English.

DEFTLEFTHAND

The journalist has been reading Eamon Dunphy's new book.

Wolf Club

dissed doc wrote: »

It's completely true though on several levels. Size of the country is also not relevant; people in Volendam are completely different (inclusing language) to people in Amsterdam, just 30km away.

Dublin is much more "wannabee Britain" with regard to the south side, which is completely different to the North side culture. And north side Dublin accent is like a harsh east London dialect if you spent enough time in Bristol.

I'm not saying all people in Ireland are culturally the same, but the attitudes of some people would suggest that they might as well be from opposite sides of the world.

miss no stars

Wolf Club wrote: »

I'm not saying all people in Ireland are culturally the same, but the attitudes of some people would suggest that they might as well be from opposite sides of the world.

What I find funny about Irish people is how varied the attitudes to offers of tea are.

In some parts of the country it seems as if it's almost rude to accept immediately and much Mrs Doyle-ing has to go on.

In other parts you're offered and are expected to accept or decline, in line with what you actually want.

In Dublin you should already have the kettle on and tea wetted and "Tea?" means "how many sugars?"

Totally different parts of the world!

orangesoda

miss no stars wrote: »

What I find funny about Irish people is how varied the attitudes to offers of tea are.

In some parts of the country it seems as if it's almost rude to accept immediately and much Mrs Doyle-ing has to go on.

In other parts you're offered and are expected to accept or decline, in line with what you actually want.

In Dublin you should already have the kettle on and tea wetted and "Tea?" means "how many sugars?"

Totally different parts of the world!

That's why i don't visit people, i don't drink tea, .'ach sure you'll have a wee drop?' 'Christ, what sort of fella are ya not drinking tay'

miss no stars

orangesoda wrote: »

That's why i don't visit people, i don't drink tea, .'ach sure you'll have a wee drop?' 'Christ, what sort of fella are ya not drinking tay'

Am I reading you correctly... You... Don't... drink tea??? Are you Irish at all?

Bridge93

Common with Britain in the sense everyone loves to beat them!

DublinWriter

Blame it all on their roots...

dd972

Davarus Walrus wrote: »

Because the modern day latchico who identifies himself as Irish usually doesn't even have a rudimentary grounding in the native tongue. Knows more about Stephen Gerard's distribution rate than he does about the culture of the land he was born in.

Nothing wrong with that, Stevie G's an 'East Dub' anyway, England starts at St Helens !

donegal__road

freddiek wrote: »

"a right bolloking"

are terms such as this commonly used in Donegal?

I think you would hear it more often in the North.

c_man

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

It's true. Only the British and people from Dublin like The Beatles. No one from any other part of the world is a fan of this little known Merseybeat combo. They just never had much success outside of their own country, except for in Dublin.

Yep, they never even sold out one night in Croke Park.

purplepanda

miss no stars wrote: »

Then you have to look at the history of Dublin - it reads very differently to the history of the rest of the country. My bf mentioned that an area near me sounds very English, doesn't sound Irish at all. I just thought it sounds very Dublin. Don't forget, Irish has pretty much never been the spoken language of Dublin. It's a viking and norman city and the placenames are as likely to reflect that as to reflect it being in the country of Ireland. There are plenty of people in Dublin who can easily trace roots back to England. I can and I don't even have to go that far back.

Dublin doesn't actually have a very different history to the south eastern counties of Ireland, your observations could easily apply to Wexford, Kilkenny & Waterford for example.

If you compared Dublin to Connemara & the west of Ireland then you would be making more of a valid comparison IMO.

Jesus Wept

anncoates wrote: »

I'd rather sell my arse on the streets than put my name to an article like that.

how much

zetalambda

TheMza wrote: »

100% agree, I'd have more in common with people from England than Cork or some other place down the country.

Where do you think the term "West Brit" came from?

Not sure if you've spent much time in the UK but you'd be looked at and treated in the same way as someone from Offaly.

Oh yeah, If you check out the last census, Cork has the highest concentration of British expats in the country. Draw your own conclusion.

anncoates

Our Year wrote: »

how much

That's possibly the nicest thing anybody has said to me for ages.

Polka_Dot

What's really interesting about Garth-mania is how it highlights an urban-rural rift. Tickets were overwhelmingly sold in the provinces; we saw folks queue for days in small towns, while people in Dublin, Cork and Limerick remained mostly immune to his pastoral charm.

That's because city folk have heard of this great new thing called the internet.

Femme_Fatale

For me, the greatest distinction between urbi et orbi is Anglicisation. Large parts of our cities are virtually indistinguishable from Britain, unashamedly so. Indeed these people would take it as a badge of honour, looking down on culchies with their quaint indigenous pastimes, freely admitting they have more in common with England than provincial Ireland.

What does nationality mean if all your cultural touchstones are 'other', usually British, and you're actively hostile to all elements of Irishness? I've seen, for instance, Irish urbanites join "anti-ginger" Facebook groups – anti-Irish prejudice by another name.

Their worldview can be summarised as "British good, Irish bad. Man United good, hurling bad. The Beatles good, Irish trad bad. BBC good, RTE bad." (I've heard RTE described as "Bog 1 and Bog 2", firmly placing the national broadcaster in the culchie camp.)

Mortification. Dumb or troll.

It's like a particularly cringey After Hours post... yet gets published in a national newspaper...