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Nurse aren't worth the minimum wage?

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12467…12

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    #92
    somuj
    Registered Users Posts: 867 ✭✭✭somuj


    A_Sober_Paddy wrote: »
    We all can understand its a difficult and challenging job...but they know that too and before they head into the industry, they should do a little research into the job's description and tasks that they'd be performing


    The majority of people in this thread can't seem to grasp that.


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    #93
    moxin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,203 ✭✭✭moxin


    Zaph wrote: »
    I spoke to a nurse today who finished work at 8.30pm last night and was back in work for a full shift at 5.30am today. It's a skilled occupation with tough working conditions and should be recognised as such.

    Thats shift work for you in any job, that person will have days off as well to rest, nothing special there.


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    #94
    Carlos Orange
    Registered Users Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭Carlos Orange


    Stavros Murphy wrote: »
    No. It is working. It's just nice, clean work without the blood, sh1t, gore and trauma that Nurses endure. I'd prefer a nurse over a programmer if my arse falls off.

    Nursing is working? I'd prefer a mover if I wanted to unload a truck.


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    #95
    Carlos Orange
    Registered Users Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭Carlos Orange


    hmmm wrote: »
    What's "criminal" about being paid 22 grand a year straight out of college?

    Isn't this about student nurses who are still in college?


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    #96
    A_Sober_Paddy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,221 ✭✭✭A_Sober_Paddy


    somuj wrote: »
    The majority of people in this thread can't seem to grasp that.

    I think the majority of people in this country can't seem to grasp it either


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    #97
    hmmm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    psinno wrote: »
    Isn't this about student nurses who are still in college?
    That's what we found out eventually in the thread, so it's the pay for interns effectively. Some people tried to make out fully qualified nurses were being paid less than minimum wage, when they are in fact making 22k a year.


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    #98
    KyussBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭KyussBishop


    Many nurses are overworked and underpaid, but instead of this being the fault of their employers, part of the narrative of some in this thread is that it is the fault of the nurses - i.e. victim blaming - because 'they should have known better when they chose that field of work'.


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    #99
    UrbanSea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,335 ✭✭✭✭UrbanSea


    somuj wrote: »
    The majority of people in this thread can't seem to grasp that.
    You can have a fair idea of the nastiness you'll encounter but I suppose you can't truly appreciate just how revolting and down right rancid people can be until you experience this first hand.


    That said, just because nurses may be aware of the dangers they face doesn't mean that it is acceptable.


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    #100
    hmmm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    KyussBishop wrote: »
    Many nurses are overworked and underpaid, but instead of this being the fault of their employers, part of the narrative of some in this thread is that it is the fault of the nurses - i.e. victim blaming - because 'they should have known better when they chose that field of work'.
    This is just empty rhetoric, it adds nothing to the discussion.


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    #101
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    hmmm wrote: »
    What's "criminal" about being paid 22 grand a year straight out of college?

    If I worked straight after my degree I could be on 40k a year for a far less taxing job.


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    #102
    Friend Computer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 369 ✭✭Friend Computer


    hmmm wrote: »
    Well I have no comeback to that.

    Except to deliberately twist what I said.
    Nurses are simply better people, and can look down and sneer at everyone else.

    Notice how I at not point in my post said any of that? Of course you did. Didn't stop you just making it up, though.

    Also, noticed you edited out your "college debate society" remark to Kyuss. Would you like to talk about that chip on your shoulder? I mean, going by your other remarks it's obvious you're quite bitter towards anyone who's gone to college.


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    #103
    Hitchens
    Registered Users Posts: 8,006 ✭✭✭Hitchens


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    If I worked straight after my degree I could be on 40k a year for a far less taxing job.
    it's not easy to go straight though :D


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    #104
    hmmm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    If I worked straight after my degree I could be on 40k a year for a far less taxing job.
    You can tell it's AH on a Friday night.


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    #105
    Stavros Murphy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,440 ✭✭✭Stavros Murphy


    psinno wrote: »
    Nursing is working? I'd prefer a mover if I wanted to unload a truck.

    What's your point? That post is just noise tbh. And that's coming from an incessant drone like me.


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    #106
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    Stavros Murphy wrote: »
    No. It is working. It's just nice, clean work without the blood, sh1t, gore and trauma that Nurses endure. I'd prefer a nurse over a programmer if my arse falls off.

    And a nurse over a programmer for your mri machine and heart monitor?

    Horse for courses


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    #107
    moxin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,203 ✭✭✭moxin


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    If I worked straight after my degree I could be on 40k a year for a far less taxing job.

    So should all nurses do your job role as it has nearly double the pay?


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    #108
    KyussBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭KyussBishop


    hmmm wrote: »
    This is just empty rhetoric, it adds nothing to the discussion.
    Do you understand the meaning of the word rhetoric? (no, don't bother answering that, it's a rhetorical question)

    I picked out an exact type of fallacious, victim-blaming-based argument, that people have been using, and I've highlighted that - providing an exact and meaningful criticism of their posts, by showing how fallacious it is - dismissing that as 'rhetoric' shows your own inability to give a substantive response, rendering your own reply a piece of meaningless rhetoric - adding nothing to the discussion - that falls fall of the exact criticism you're trying to apply to me.


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    #109
    hmmm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    KyussBishop wrote: »
    I picked out an exact type of fallacious, victim-blaming-based argument, that people have been using, and I've highlighted that - providing an exact and meaningful criticism of their posts, by showing how fallacious it is - dismissing that as 'rhetoric' shows your own inability to give a substantive response, rendering your own reply a piece of meaningless rhetoric - adding nothing to the discussion - that falls fall of the exact criticism you're trying to apply to me.
    All I'm hearing is "blah blah blah" TBH.


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    #110
    UrbanSea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,335 ✭✭✭✭UrbanSea


    hmmm wrote: »
    All I'm hearing is "blah blah blah" TBH.
    You have confirmed it, you have the debating skills of a wooden chair.


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    #111
    hmmm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    UrbanSea wrote: »
    You have confirmed it, you have the debating skills of a wooden chair.
    Are you still claiming that nurses start on a wage less than the minimum wage?


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    #112
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,926 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    If I worked straight after my degree I could be on 40k a year for a far less taxing job.

    The nature of public service employment is that you start at the bottom and then get increments.

    http://www.nospinireland.com/Nurses%20pay%20scales.html

    Would that be the same in your job? Also in nursing as in many other jobs there are quite an array of allowances. I see one on the list for working in an A&E department, which to me would just be a normal part of the work.

    http://www.inmo.ie/location_and_qualification_allowances_2010


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    #113
    UrbanSea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,335 ✭✭✭✭UrbanSea


    hmmm wrote: »
    Are you still claiming that nurses start on a wage less than the minimum wage?
    Can you quote where I said that? Especially since it was you that I explained the figures of placement to


    Ta


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    #114
    hmmm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    UrbanSea wrote: »
    Can you quote where I said that? Especially since it was you that I explained the figures of placement to
    I give up, it's what the whole thread was based on.


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    #115
    KyussBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭KyussBishop


    hmmm wrote: »
    All I'm hearing is "blah blah blah" TBH.
    Yet you take the time to reply to it, hmmm? So you can be bothered making a display of being dismissive towards my posts, to try and reduce their credibility, but can't be arsed providing any counterarguments to what is said.

    It strikes me as a similar attitude to: "Oh he's providing logical counterarguments against my views, what a bore *yawn*, lets get back to downplaying nurses pay and working conditions".


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    #116
    UrbanSea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,335 ✭✭✭✭UrbanSea


    hmmm wrote: »
    Placement rates are here, they're not unpaid.
    http://www.hse.ie/eng/staff/Benefits_Services/pay/student%20nurses.pdf

    If you're making up fake sob stories you're not going to win any argument.
    hmmm wrote: »
    I give up, it's what the whole thread was based on.
    :pac::pac::pac::pac:

    None of my posts even implied they start on below minimum wage, I quoted where I had to explain to you those figures were for forth year placement.

    My issues with you (which you have never actually addressed) was mainly questioning just how overpaid they were considering 22k was such an astronomical wage in your eyes


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    #117
    Stavros Murphy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,440 ✭✭✭Stavros Murphy


    moxin wrote: »
    Thanks for the link.

    I'm wondering, do the people who have objections about the pay of student nurses also think staff nurses are also underpaid? The pay looks good.

    Good compared to the Administrative Managers? Funny how someone doing the actual, valuable nursing gets buttons, while the person checking their time-sheets and saying NO! to their requests for equipment and proper resources gets a nice wedge. It's the same in almost every industry. Upside-down syndrome. It's all-pervasive.


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    #118
    oak5548
    Closed Accounts Posts: 226 ✭✭oak5548


    Absolutely sickening some of the people in this thread.
    You people have no god damn idea, this entire country is just disgusting with the way it treats some of its workers.

    Most of you people have absolutely ZERO understanding of what nurses and other healthcare workers deal with.
    How can I describe it.......its a fúcking warzone.
    They get the shí beat out of them, mentally, physically, emotionally. They're over work, undervalued, abused, insulted, bullied, and they're not even given the correct resources to deal with it.
    They get 3 year old kids telling them to "fúck off" and the parents abusing and laughing at the nurse.

    They care for heroin & alcohol addict babies that jacinta just popped out.
    Yes, these babies actually are addicted and suffering from the moment they are born.
    Doctors working for 24, 30, 40 hours + without sleep.
    They dont even get to leave the hospital. Just catch an hour or two sleep passed out on the lunch table.
    Ambulance service get the shít beat out of them by some knacker/scumbag/junkie.
    Too bad the 1 Garda car within 10 miles is too busy or broken down to come help them.

    Yet, they still do the job. Because its what they love, it makes them happy dealing with the nice people, the few who appreciate it.

    Also. May I add its not just student and new graduated nurses dealing with this. I know nurses who are in the job 10 years and are working under the same rates and conditions.

    But who cares about them right? Nobody cares about their opinion. And you know what, nobody ever will. Nothing will change in this country.


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    #119
    Carlos Orange
    Registered Users Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭Carlos Orange


    KyussBishop wrote: »
    Do you understand the meaning of the word rhetoric? (no, don't bother answering that, it's a rhetorical question)

    I picked out an exact type of fallacious, victim-blaming-based argument, that people have been using, and I've highlighted that - providing an exact and meaningful criticism of their posts, by showing how fallacious it is - dismissing that as 'rhetoric' shows your own inability to give a substantive response, rendering your own reply a piece of meaningless rhetoric - adding nothing to the discussion - that falls fall of the exact criticism you're trying to apply to me.

    Actually you have just used a loaded term that means some people moved immediately onto the next post. If that is victory for you then well done.


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    #120
    KyussBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭KyussBishop


    oak5548 wrote: »
    Absolutely sickening some of the people in this thread.
    You people have no god damn idea, this entire country is just disgusting with the way it treats some of its workers.

    Most of you people have absolutely ZERO understanding of what nurses and other healthcare workers deal with.
    How can I describe it.......its a fúcking warzone.
    They get the shí beat out of them, mentally, physically, emotionally. They're over work, undervalued, abused, insulted, bullied, and they're not even given the correct resources to deal with it.
    They get 3 year old kids telling them to "fúck off" and the parents abusing and laughing at the nurse.

    They care for heroin & alcohol addict babies that jacinta just popped out.
    Yes, these babies actually are addicted and suffering from the moment they are born.
    Doctors working for 24, 30, 40 hours + without sleep.
    They dont even get to leave the hospital. Just catch an hour or two sleep passed out on the lunch table.
    Ambulance service get the shít beat out of them by some knacker/scumbag/junkie.
    Too bad the 1 Garda car within 10 miles is too busy or broken down to come help them.

    Yet, they still do the job. Because its what they love, it makes them happy dealing with the nice people, the few who appreciate it.

    Also. May I add its not just student and new graduated nurses dealing with this. I know nurses who are in the job 10 years and are working under the same rates and conditions.

    But who cares about them right? Nobody cares about their opinion. And you know what, nobody ever will. Nothing will change in this country.
    I wouldn't be too disheartened by it, as it is usually just a (very vocal) minority, and Boards certainly isn't very representative of the wider population; this thread however, is one of the more extreme examples of that attitude that I've seen in a while.


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    #121
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,926 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Stavros Murphy wrote: »
    Good compared to the Administrative Managers? Funny how someone doing the actual, valuable nursing gets buttons, while the person checking their time-sheets and saying NO! to their requests for equipment and proper resources gets a nice wedge. It's the same in almost every industry. Upside-down syndrome. It's all-pervasive.

    And some day a few of these students will reach those dizzy levels and will have long forgotten about what it is like for the new intake. There were two contributions to the debate on Liveline today in that vein. It is the same phenomenon as junior doctors who become consultants.

    How much do you actually know about what the senior staff in the Health Service do to be able to dismiss their role as just saying NO to the workers?


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