Nurse aren't worth the minimum wage?

Eight Ball

hmmm wrote: »

I don't understand the calculations - how many hours do nurses work?

22000/52/40 = 10.57 per hour for a 40 hour week.

22 grand for a starting salary straight out of college sounds pretty decent to me.

It's a s h I t salary period but for a nurse it's a complete joke. FG are driving wages down across the board and in the process destroying the economy. Gimps.

moxin

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

Good compared to the Administrative Managers? Funny how someone doing the actual, valuable nursing gets buttons, while the person checking their time-sheets and saying NO! to their requests for equipment and proper resources gets a nice wedge. It's the same in almost every industry. Upside-down syndrome. It's all-pervasive.

Your gripe is with capitalism. Chiefs get paid more than the workers under them, whats new?

KyussBishop

psinno wrote: »

Actually you have just used a loaded term that means some people moved immediately onto the next post. If that is victory for you then well done.

Do you mean the term 'victim blaming'? If so - do you not think that, when nurses working conditions and pay is poor, and people blame that on the nurses instead of their employers (EDIT: In the sense that nurses 'should know better' before going into that field) - do you not think that is a perfectly accurate example of 'victim blaming'?

Not all posters who are downplaying nurses conditions engaged in this (just a couple IIRC), just to make it clear I'm not claiming that.

mcmoustache

LeinsterDub wrote: »

And a nurse over a programmer for your mri machine and heart monitor?

Horse for courses

I'm a programmer and we're paid pretty well. I would expect the doctors who interpret the results of scans to be paid well. I would also hope that the nurses who carry out the doctor/consultant's instructions are paid well and not overworked.

ProfessorPlum

dxhound2005 wrote: »

And some day a few of these students will reach those dizzy levels and will have long forgotten about what it is like for the new intake. There were two contributions to the debate on Liveline today in that vein. It is the same phenomenon as junior doctors who become consultants.

How much do you actually know about what the senior staff in the Health Service do to be able to dismiss their role as just saying NO to the workers?

Unfortunately, there's very few of our junior doctors who are bothered to become consultants in this country. Most posts advertised since they changed the contracts can't be filled, some didn't get any applicants at all.
The system is well and truly broken.

onrail

mcmoustache wrote: »

I'm a programmer and we're paid pretty well. I would expect the doctors who interpret the results of scans to be paid well. I would also hope that the nurses who carry out the doctor/consultant's instructions are paid well and not overworked.

The civil engineers who design/build the hospitals are either now out of work or are scraping by on £17-20k... This thread could go around in circles forever

Stavros Murphy

Jesus, the vitriol that seems to be reserved for nurses is bloody amazing. Those same people with their "feck em" attitudes will no doubt be the very self same people whinging loudest in the A&E and on the wards - and a Nurse will have to run after their needs, wipe their sh1tty bum, change their dressing and listen to them moan and groan. I'm a fan of Nurses. I hold them in high regard, I think it takes a really special person to be a good nurse. I've had myself sewn back together by them, I've tried to be respectful and thankful for the job they do. I think the general population needs to cop on to who and what is really of value.

A Primal Nut

somuj wrote: »

Anybody force her to become a nurse??

What a strange comment. So because she chose to become a nurse, she should up with being stabbed by needles?

By that logic nobody should choose to become a nurse.

dxhound2005

ProfessorPlum wrote: »

Unfortunately, there's very few of our junior doctors who are bothered to become consultants in this country. Most posts advertised since they changed the contracts can't be filled, some didn't get any applicants at all.
The system is well and truly broken.

Can't be bothered at a minimum of €95K. How much do they want? Are they worth as much as three nurses?

monflat

onrail wrote: »

The civil engineers who design/build the hospitals are either now out of work or are scraping by on £17-20k... This thread could go around in circles forever

Well if they ever had to work in a hospital or hospital type setting you would be horrified as the bloddy working space and basic things like door openings etc are designed by fellas who never have to work in the place.

So im not feeling aer bit sorry for those engineers who design hospitals who are " scraping by "

the_boatman

one of the hallmarks of government - union negotiation this past five years was how unions used new entrants to the public sector to shield veteran staff , the senior public servants pulled up the ladder after them

young nurses are on sh1t money as are young teachers but a nurse who is around forty five is on far more than in the majority of European countries

its a bit rich unions pontificating about exploited young nurses seeing as they signed off on their sh1tty deal

KDII

I'm not long home from work. I work as a nurse. Busy ward. Immense pressure and some of the sickest patients in the hospital.

Arrived to work this morning to a crash call in progress. Patient didn't make it. Lovely young woman. I glanced at my fob watch and noticed it was 8.55 while I was sitting in a crowded waiting room on a busy ward corridor with my manager telling this family the bad news. One family member literally screamed, this horrible visceral shriek. It was awful.

It's a lot to deal with before most peoples working day has even begun. It is a genuinely challenging and draining job. I felt physically sick sitting in that room trying to calm a screaming woman. Under an hour later a new patient was in the same bed.

It's not as if nurses are getting paid some extortionate amount. In fairness it really is the full spectrum of human emotion. It's a genuinely bizarre working environment. Having said that I wouldn't do anything else. It's a privilege to share this moments in peoples lives. It just makes you feel extra crap to have it devalued by comments like those voiced by some people on this thread.

A Primal Nut

hmmm wrote: »

There's a severe stench of entitlement on this thread. "I have a degree"..."I'm a nurse I'm like Florence Nightingale"..."I'm sacrificing myself for the country"...."Shelf stackers in Lidl".

They are right to be entitled. People are entitled to a safe working environment and a fair salary.

Then there is the fact that we are competing with other countries for medical talent. And right now we are far behind them in terms of salaries and working conditions. So we end up losing our doctors and nurses.

KyussBishop

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

Jesus, the vitriol that seems to be reserved for nurses is bloody amazing. Those same people with their "feck em" attitudes will no doubt be the very self same people whinging loudest in the A&E and on the wards - and a Nurse will have to run after their needs, wipe their sh1tty bum, change their dressing and listen to them moan and groan. I'm a fan of Nurses. I hold them in high regard, I think it takes a really special person to be a good nurse. I've had myself sewn back together by them, I've tried to be respectful and thankful for the job they do. I think the general population needs to cop on to who and what is really of value.

Ya - I mean they are among the most important and valuable workers in the entire economy really, for their essential role in maintaining public health - and without them lots of people would, well...die - so they easily should be one of the most well respected and looked after sets of workers in the entire economy.

I suspect that a large portion of the posters most vitriolic against nurses, are the same types who would have unquestioning reverence towards CEO's with wildly excessive pay, who 'earn' it based on the unquestioned assumption that they are difficult to replace - pretty much getting the prioritization of which workers are most valuable (and thus should gain a bigger share of compensation), completely backwards.

moxin

A Primal Nut wrote: »

What a strange comment. So because she chose to become a nurse, she should up with being stabbed by needles?

By that logic nobody should choose to become a nurse.

That doesn't make sense.

Being a nurse involves using needles, unfortunately due to our junkie population being pricked by a needle is a hazard of the job. Why become a nurse when both the pay and working conditions are so tough? There are other career options.

Eight Ball

KDII wrote: »

I'm not long home from work. I work as a nurse. Busy ward. Immense pressure and some of the sickest patients in the hospital.

Arrived to work this morning to a crash call in progress. Patient didn't make it. Lovely young woman. I glanced at my fob watch and noticed it was 8.55 while I was sitting in a crowded waiting room on a busy ward corridor with my manager telling this family the bad news. One family member literally screamed, this horrible visceral shriek. It was awful.

It's a lot to deal with before most peoples working day has even begun. It is a genuinely challenging and draining job. I felt physically sick sitting in that room trying to calm a screaming woman. Under an hour later a new patient was in the same bed.

It's not as if nurses are getting paid some extortionate amount. In fairness it really is the full spectrum of human emotion. It's a genuinely bizarre working environment. Having said that I wouldn't do anything else. It's a privilege to share this moments in peoples lives. It just makes you feel extra crap to have it devalued by comments like those voiced by some people on this thread.

People like you deserve every cent they earn and more. Ignore the haters. You are valued.

hidinginthebush

What did the unions do that protected the veteran workers at the expense of the new staff?

(Not on anyone's side or trying to pick a fight, just asking!)

onrail

monflat wrote: »

Well if they ever had to work in a hospital or hospital type setting you would be horrified as the bloddy working space and basic things like door openings etc are designed by fellas who never have to work in the place.

So im not feeling aer bit sorry for those engineers who design hospitals who are " scraping by "

And like most Engineers, I have the utmost respect for nurses and wouldn't be able to do what they do! Its their chosen profession though and like the rest of us, they need to ride out the recession, get experience and hopefully things will improve pay-wise in a few years time.

dxhound2005

Are salaries in other countries so much better? I took a look at the NHS pay for nurses and it seems similar to here. They start low and can rise to pretty good levels. I heard Australia pays very well. Then again there are a lot of foreign health workers here so they must be coming from places with lower salaries than ours.

http://www.nhscareers.nhs.uk/working-in-the-nhs/pay-and-benefits/agenda-for-change-pay-rates/

ProfessorPlum

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Can't be bothered at a minimum of €95K. How much do they want? Are they worth as much as three nurses?

It's a different job, but you know that. And yes they are worth more than 95K, that's why they are being snapped up by quality hospitals in other countries. It's really not all about pay though, the system here is a miserable to work in, so why would they want to. As others have suggested re the 'whining' nurses, if they don't like it, get out. Well the doctors are, and the nurses won't be long following. So folks should be careful for what they wish for.

mcmoustache

onrail wrote: »

The civil engineers who design/build the hospitals are either now out of work or are scraping by on £17-20k... This thread could go around in circles forever

Not really. When I end up in hospital, I don't want the person treating me to be underpaid and overworked.

monflat

onrail wrote: »

And like most Engineers, I have the utmost respect for nurses and wouldn't be able to do what they do! Its their chosen profession though and like the rest of us, they need to ride out the recession, get experience and hopefully things will improve pay-wise in a few years time.

Thats great just basic things that make our " working" lives a bit easier.

I aint long home either and the pressure and stress is terrible.
A lot of my colleages have left the profession and others have taken leave .
But it was my chosen profession so il stick at it.

Stavros Murphy

moxin wrote: »

Your gripe is with capitalism. Chiefs get paid more than the workers under them, whats new?

I'm a chief. An admin manager is a paper-pushing overhead. I have no gripe with capitalism.

onrail

monflat wrote: »

Thats great just basic things that make our " working" lives a bit easier.

I aint long home either and the pressure and stress is terrible.
A lot of my colleages have left the profession and others have taken leave .
But it was my chosen profession so il stick at it.

Yes, but does a higher wage necessarily reduce the stress or pressure of your working day? I'd much rather be treated on a ward with two nurses on 22k, rather than one on 44k...?

onrail

onrail wrote: »

Yes, but does a higher wage necessarily reduce the stress or pressure of your working day? I'd much rather be treated on a ward with two nurses on 22k, rather than one on 44k...?

Btw... I Really don't want to come across as belittling your work - I've been pretty ill in the past and can't praise you guys enough. Just trying to discuss the economics of it all!

monflat

onrail wrote: »

Yes, but does a higher wage necessarily reduce the stress or pressure of your working day? I'd much rather be treated on a ward with two nurses on 22k, rather than one on 44k...?

No it does not but if managenent had tighter purse strings back in the " good days " there would not be many problems today. .
There is so many cut backs
3 of our staff were out today sick
Not one replaced we were told to get by with 7
Our daily numbers are 10 staff

Tuff get on with it nothing could be done.......
We got through the day as safe as we could

the_boatman

hidinginthebush wrote: »

What did the unions do that protected the veteran workers at the expense of the new staff?

(Not on anyone's side or trying to pick a fight, just asking!)

new entrants took at least a 10% pay cut

DK man

WhatNowHow wrote: »

You get paid in 4th year internship. Where you are effectively a member of staff responsible for a min of 6 patients

Trainee teachers are in the classroom on their own teaching and then writing up reports on their teaching and have to pay up to €6000 for the privilege and they don't get a penny - they may also be expected to take teams etc

It's a tough job but then most jobs are tough - at least you have very good prospects of getting a job

Phoebas

Nurses get paid reasonably well here by international standards. Its a tough enough job for sure, but its also one of those kinds of jobs that people go into with their eyes wide open, fully knowing that they're going to be dealing with very difficult situations - its the same with anyone who joins the emergency services or anything other similar.
Its not for everyone, but there doesn't seem to be a major labour force problem attracting potential nurses at current rates.

Eight Ball wrote: »

People like you deserve every cent they earn and more. Ignore the haters. You are valued.

That didn't cost a penny

steddyeddy

So the guys who think nurses should be working mad hours for crap pay I take it you also don't complain in your job because after all "You choose it". Combine that "Logic" with the fact that nursing is sort of an essential role in our society. I don't get why you consider "well they choose it" a good excuse for demeaning that essential role.