Nurse aren't worth the minimum wage?

onrail

steddyeddy wrote: »

So the guys who think nurses should be working mad hours for crap pay I take it you also don't complain in your job because after all "You choose it". Combine that "Logic" with the fact that nursing is sort of an essential role in our society. I don't get why you consider "well they choose it" a good excuse for demeaning that essential role.

Don't think any reasonable person would suggest that nurses should work "mad hours for crap pay"

Most of the arguments that are presented here to justify higher pay would be better solved by increasing staffing numbers?

JackF1

steddyeddy wrote: »

So the guys who think nurses should be working mad hours for crap pay I take it you also don't complain in your job because after all "You choose it". Combine that "Logic" with the fact that nursing is sort of an essential role in our society. I don't get why you consider "well they choose it" a good excuse for demeaning that essential role.

Here here. I'm not a nurse because I couldn't put up with the hours/pay and conditions. Also I'm not the vocational sort.
The demands placed on nurses are extraordinary and that fact is indisputable.
You work odd antisocial hours on your feet all day seeing life in all it's forms it's a wonderful career that shouldn't be undermined by politics

Phoebas

steddyeddy wrote: »

I don't get why you consider "well they choose it" a good excuse for demeaning that essential role.

Who's demeaning them?

steddyeddy wrote: »

In the light of the 80 million Irish water corruption

.... well obviously the Irish Water 'corruption' changes everything.

StupidLikeAFox

Just for clarification, because there is a lot of facts, opinions, insults etc getting mixed up in the middle of everything, can a nurse or someone who knows the profession clarify if this scenario correct? (based on this link http://www.inmo.ie/35)

Service Age Salary
Student Y4 22 €16,688.00 (36 wk placement)
Grad Y1 23 €30,234.00
Grad Y2 24 €31,710.00
Grad Y3 25 €33,189.00
Grad Y4 26 €34,666.00
Grad Y5 27 €36,137.00
Grad Y6 28 €37,408.00
Grad Y7 29 €38,683.00
Grad Y8 30 €39,952.00
Grad Y9 31 €41,222.00
Grad Y10 32 €42,469.00

chinacup

moxin wrote: »

That doesn't make sense.

Being a nurse involves using needles, unfortunately due to our junkie population being pricked by a needle is a hazard of the job. Why become a nurse when both the pay and working conditions are so tough? There are other career options.

Because some people are GOOD people and they want to HELP. And they deserve to be paid fairly. How are people not getting this? Trying to understand this POV but it seems pretty illogical. "People who want to be nurses just shouldn't because they could have it easier another way". Just because they ask for fair pay doesn't mean they shouldn't choose nursing. Again nursing is a universal degree you can travel anywhere with it so its not an unwise move. Are the government pushing our young out of the country is that the real issue here? I can't help but wonder. Between this and college cuts and burocracy their not making it easy to stay.

WhatNowHow

KyussBishop wrote: »

Fúcking hell guys, just because there are lots of unemployed people out there, doesn't mean some of the hardest working people in the entire country, should be treated like shít.

They're working hard to provide an essential, and currently massively understaffed, public service - one which is falling into a worse and worse condition due to budget cuts; fúcking right they feel entitled to a decent wage.


'Entitlement' isn't a bad word - we're entitled to at least the minimum wage, because we have laws on minimum wage; unemployed people are entitled to state benefits/unemployment-payment for a period of time, because that's the system we have in place.

People should feel entitled, to what they are entitled to - and should have the self-respect to feel and demand entitlement, to decent working conditions and pay to compensate them - and should fight to hold onto all of that, not let what they are entitled to (or what they should be entitled to) be removed from them, because some people have ass-backwards morals, begrudging their hard-earned entitlements.

Well said!

Phoebas

WhatNowHow wrote: »

Well said!

Yeah - but also a fair bit of hyperbole: "the hardest working people in the entire country", "treated like shít".
Over egging the pudding just a little bit.

moxin

arf91 wrote: »

Because some people are GOOD people and they want to HELP. And they deserve to be paid fairly. How are people not getting this? Trying to understand this POV but it seems pretty illogical. "People who want to be nurses just shouldn't because they could have it easier another way". Just because they ask for fair pay doesn't mean they shouldn't choose nursing. Again nursing is a universal degree you can travel anywhere with it so its not an unwise move. Are the government pushing our young out of the country is that the real issue here? I can't help but wonder. Between this and college cuts and burocracy their not making it easy to stay.

What job recognises the quality of being "good"? Not many I bet.

Its a capitalist society, if you're good at your job you get better pay. If you don't like it get another job probably in a another profession.

As I said earlier, it was obvious since about '07 that there was no future in nursing due to ongoing cutbacks. These people should try another career if they want to stay.

steddyeddy

Phoebas wrote: »

Who's demeaning them?


.... well obviously the Irish Water 'corruption' changes everything.

It changes the fallacy that there's no money.

JackF1

moxin wrote: »

What job recognises the quality of being "good"? Not many I bet.

Its a capitalist society, if you're good at your job you get better pay. If you don't like it get another job probably in a another profession.

As I said earlier, it was obvious since about '07 that there was no future in nursing due to ongoing cutbacks. These people should try another career if they want to stay.

I haven't been sick in ages so I don't need any nursing!
No future in nursing? Yeh that's a wonderful ideal. Great when you need one.
Last time I checked yes we live in a capitalist society but being cruel to others isn't exactly a society anyone should wish to be part of

steddyeddy

moxin wrote: »

What job recognises the quality of being "good"? Not many I bet.

Its a capitalist society, if you're good at your job you get better pay. If you don't like it get another job probably in a another profession.

As I said earlier, it was obvious since about '07 that there was no future in nursing due to ongoing cutbacks. These people should try another career if they want to stay.

So you agree that nurses should be on low pay?

steddyeddy

Ignore this capitalist society BS. If we constantly reduce the wages of workers we'll see the skilled workers leaving the country.

moxin

steddyeddy wrote: »

So you agree that nurses should be on low pay?

22k is a fine salary for a starter nurse, it will rise over time as stated by the pay scales for staff nurses.

salonfire

monflat wrote: »

No it does not but if managenent had tighter purse strings back in the " good days " there would not be many problems today. .
There is so many cut backs
3 of our staff were out today sick
Not one replaced we were told to get by with 7
Our daily numbers are 10 staff

Tuff get on with it nothing could be done.......
We got through the day as safe as we could

There's your problem right there. A 30% absenteeism rate in any workplace is taking the piss


And before you start with the 'it's because we work with sick people', are 30% of the doctors sick today as well? 30% of the cleaners?

steddyeddy

moxin wrote: »

22k is a fine salary for a starter nurse, it will rise over time as stated by the pay scales for staff nurses.

Why don't we reduce the pay scale for engineers. biochemists (me), doctors, teachers and lawyers? I mean if they don't like the pay they wouldn't have to choose the job right?

Satriale

salonfire wrote: »

There's your problem right there. A 30% absenteeism rate in any workplace is taking the piss


And before you start with the 'it's because we work with sick people', are 30% of the doctors sick today as well? 30% of the cleaners?

you must be a wonderful doctor yourself, to be able to diagnose 3 people you have never met as taking the p1ss...

moxin

steddyeddy wrote: »

Why don't we reduce the pay scale for engineers. biochemists (me), doctors, teachers and lawyers? I mean if they don't like the pay they wouldn't have to choose the job right?

Funny how you choose relatively good paying professions. Whats that got to do with nurses?

crockholm

Tbh,sometimes we do put nurses up on a pedistal. If 22k per year for a person in their early 20s,with a chance to earn more as the years to go by is deemed as disrespectful then we have to ask, "how does it benefit the taxpayer who has subsidized your education,just to see you swan off to Oz?"


People who go into nursing should be well aware of the less than salubrious aspects of the job

steddyeddy

moxin wrote: »

Funny how you choose relatively good paying professions. Whats that got to do with nurses?

I mean we could save a lot more money by applying your thinking across the board. I mean based on your judgement what's the argument against it? I take it you also agree that doctors should work 24 hour shifts? I mean they did choose it?

steddyeddy

crockholm wrote: »

Tbh,sometimes we do put nurses up on a pedistal. If 22k per year for a person in their early 20s,with a chance to earn more as the years to go by is deemed as disrespectful then we have to ask, "how does it benefit the taxpayer who has subsidized your education,just to see you swan off to Oz?"


People who go into nursing should be well aware of the less than salubrious aspects of the job

Woprking up to twelve or more hours without a break sometimes and looking after sick and dying people all day? Yes you're f-ing right I put them on a pedestal.

onrail

steddyeddy wrote: »

Why don't we reduce the pay scale for engineers. biochemists (me), doctors, teachers and lawyers? I mean if they don't like the pay they wouldn't have to choose the job right?

In most cases (in the private sector) the pay scale has reduced.... That's the point.
The pay scale for nurses has reduced by a similar degree.

The difference is that the private sector (for the most part) aren't complaining... Just happy to have a job relevant to their qualification and getting on with it.

steddyeddy

hmmm wrote: »

I don't understand the calculations - how many hours do nurses work?

22000/52/40 = 10.57 per hour for a 40 hour week.

22 grand for a starting salary straight out of college sounds pretty decent to me.

I take it most graduates will be working as hard as a nurse does then? If not the statement is irrelevant.

evolving_doors

moxin wrote: »

What job recognises the quality of being "good"? Not many I bet.

Its a capitalist society, if you're good at your job you get better pay. If you don't like it get another job probably in a another profession.

As I said earlier, it was obvious since about '07 that there was no future in nursing due to ongoing cutbacks. These people should try another career if they want to stay.

What capitalist society nationalises private debt in return for privatising public utilities...? Ireland is not a capitalist society..if it was then health and education would be totally private...

In reply to your last sentence..how would you feel if you were told your kid 'should try another hospital if they wanted to get better' because they were shortstaffed waiting for some new nursing applicants to get fired from McDonalds to choose the profession. Race to the bottom... But lets tune into the media and hear about the almighty Entrepreneur in our rosey capitalist world.

Frank Lee Midere

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

Nurses actually do stuff. The world no longer values people who do stuff. People who entertain, or talk, or write software or trade shares are valued. People who work, and get dirty, are considered as having little value, generally. Fcuked up world we live in.

People who write software are clearly workers and clearly create "things". However in IT the non-doers are are better paid than the workers. Just everybody is paid more.

In the HSE Nurses are underpaid. Admin staff are overpaid.

Phoebas

Even at a fairly low starting off point, nursing is still a pretty great career for people who are suited to the work.
Great employability, so a stable, long term career and its one of the few jobs that you can travel the world with and earn pretty good money wherever you go.

People are still queueing up to get into nursing courses.

salonfire

Satriale wrote: »

you must be a wonderful doctor yourself, to be able to diagnose 3 people you have never met as taking the p1ss...

Typical diversional bullsht we are so used to hearing when it comes to discussing some of the problems in the health sector.

The absenteeism rate increased last August with the good weather. Was that due to an increase in sickness as well?

evolving_doors

onrail wrote: »

In most cases (in the private sector) the pay scale has reduced.... That's the point.
The pay scale for nurses has reduced by a similar degree.

The difference is that the private sector (for the most part) aren't complaining... Just happy to have a job relevant to their qualification and getting on with it.

so ....nobody from the private sector complaining here about nurses then?

crockholm

steddyeddy wrote: »

Woprking up to twelve or more hours without a break sometimes and looking after sick and dying people all day? Yes you're f-ing right I put them on a pedestal.

The most that they will do on 12 hour shifts would be 3 in a week,perhaps 4.
And lets be honest,it's not that often that they will work 12 hours without any break.Once in a blue moon really.

steddyeddy

Phoebas wrote: »

Even at a fairly low starting off point, nursing is still a pretty great career for people who are suited to the work.
Great employability, so a stable, long term career and its one of the few jobs that you can travel the world with and earn pretty good money wherever you go.

People are still queueing up to get into nursing courses.

Except Ireland.

PeteEd

moxin wrote: »

Funny how you choose relatively good paying professions. Whats that got to do with nurses?

I'm a qualified civil engineer and i earned less as graduate during the BOOM times than a graduate nurse does today.
Future potential earnings is on on a power of that with nurses based on your experience but you don't hear engineers complaining about **** wages as we are generally not unionised public sector whingers!

If you are good at what you do, ambitious and driven you are paid what you are worth