Nurse aren't worth the minimum wage?

gctest50

WilyCoyote wrote: »

There is a fair bit of truth in that statement so why knock it? I know quite a few nurses who admit that they have a far cushier life than nurses years ago.

Excellent - a bit of progress anyway

WilyCoyote wrote: »

It's mostly Nurse's Aides/Care Assistants that do the donkey work.

That's what they are there for ?

No use in having a nurse with 20 years experience who can't work because her back is in bits.

A bit like donkeys, no-one wants to see anything happen to HCAs, but in comparison they are "disposable"

Satriale

salonfire wrote: »

So you have no problem with a 30% absenteeism rate? When, for you, would it become a problem? At 50%, 80%, 100%?


If you owned a business and 30% of your staff did not show, yet you still had to pay their salary that would not be a problem?

I do not have to prove anything. There is a high absenteeism rate in healthcare and this is well documented. Not among doctors though, curiously enough.

Seems to be people in this thread want:
- higher nursing salaries
- extra nursing staff
- absenteeism to go unchallenged and replacements drafted in.

In other words, throw more money in the system in general.

When has throwing money into healthcare ever improved things? It certainly didn't do much during the massive increases from 97 - 06.


Nurses have a overwhelming sense of entitlement. Even when they are paid within the normal salary range for graduates, they feel massively harddone by.

dude you are banging on about absenteeism but you still havent told me how you know these three nurses were not actually sick!

i dont have staff at the moment but i have in the past and strangely enough, i didnt have a problem with absenteesism because my staff were well treated, well paid and appreciated. and if they were actually sick, i did not fallaciously assume they were laying on the beach nursing a fecking hangover.

shuvly

crockholm wrote: »

Try doing 12x6 and 6hrs on the sunday for 3 weeks solid.But this ain't about who has the biggest dick.That arrangement would be unusual among nurses. I feel that sometimes nurses overplay their hand with regards misery.

It would actually suit me if nurses were given one million euro per year,given that my wife is a nurse. It's just this thing with all the new nurses leaving the country when there are jobs here irks me a Little.

I was informing you that you were wrong...and it is actually "usual among nurses". And as regards "who has the biggest dick?"...I think you are being the biggest dick in your attitude, especially as you say your wife is a nurse.."Nurses overplay their hand with regards misery". ...

I feel sorry that your wife has to put up with your defamatory attitude towards nurses

StupidLikeAFox

steddyeddy wrote: »

The dates.

Oops! With attention to detail like that I would make a bad nurse.

For the sake of the argument here are the current rates (I left in the 2010 salary for comparison):

Service Age Salary (2010) Salary (2014)
Student Y4 22 €16,688.00 €13,606.00 (36 wk placement)
Grad Y1 23 €30,234.00 €23,129.00
Grad Y2 24 €31,710.00 €24,490.00
Grad Y3 25 €33,189.00 €27,211.00
Grad Y4 26 €34,666.00 €28,539.00
Grad Y5 27 €36,137.00 €29,870.00
Grad Y6 28 €37,408.00 €31,199.00
Grad Y7 29 €38,683.00 €32,523.00
Grad Y8 30 €39,952.00 €33,667.00
Grad Y9 31 €41,222.00 €34,814.00
Grad Y10 32 €42,469.00 €35,956.00


Source: http://www.hse.ie/eng/staff/Benefits_Services/pay/July%202013.pdf (page 11)

the_boatman

salonfire wrote: »

So you have no problem with a 30% absenteeism rate? When, for you, would it become a problem? At 50%, 80%, 100%?


If you owned a business and 30% of your staff did not show, yet you still had to pay their salary that would not be a problem?

I do not have to prove anything. There is a high absenteeism rate in healthcare and this is well documented. Not among doctors though, curiously enough.

Seems to be people in this thread want:
- higher nursing salaries
- extra nursing staff
- absenteeism to go unchallenged and replacements drafted in.

In other words, throw more money in the system in general.

When has throwing money into healthcare ever improved things? It certainly didn't do much during the massive increases from 97 - 06.


Nurses have a overwhelming sense of entitlement. Even when they are paid within the normal salary range for graduates, they feel massively harddone by.

Ireland used to have a tradition of training priests , we also have a long tradition of training nurses who then either travel to England or further afield , the irish nurse is abit like the irish mammy , treasured by most , they are incredibly loved in this country , as such critical objective analysis is difficult in this area

my view is that new members of the ranks are poorly paid but those above are over paid by comparison with international rates

crockholm

shuvly wrote: »

I was informing you that you were wrong...and it is actually "usual among nurses". And as regards "who has the biggest dick?"...I think you are being the biggest dick in your attitude, especially as you say your wife is a nurse.."Nurses overplay their hand with regards misery". ...

I feel sorry that your wife has to put up with your defamatory attitude towards nurses

no need to feel sorry for her,she's working tonight and I'm having a few beers.
And it isn't usual amongst nurses,once you go over your 35-36 hours,ye get well paid,so it is a Lifestyle choice should ye work more.

Believe it or not,but ****ty jobs exist outside nursing;)

Sack Kay Burley

I feel bad for nurses because they are people who want to help people but aren't smart enough to become doctors*.


* Not that doctors are even that smart to begin with.

WilyCoyote

WhatNowHow wrote: »

See my above post. I've experienced it first hand and it's not true

Yes, I read your post. Was in hospital twice in Ireland (2007 and 2009)....... different hospitals ........ for a week each time and I spent about ten days in one out here (last year). So I'm merely saying what I saw. I'm not criticising the ethic of the nurses ........ just merely stating what I saw.
There are certain jobs that one can't have a valid opinion of without taking flak - gardai, teachers and nurses are the ones now. Years ago you couldn't criticise a priest ......
By insulating these positions from critical analysis, you're not doing anyone any favours. Least of all the gardai, teachers or nurses.

Phoebas

Sack Kay Burley wrote: »

I feel bad for nurses because they are people who want to help people but aren't smart enough to become doctors*.


* Not that doctors are even that smart to begin with.

What did Kay Burley do to piss you off?

shuvly

crockholm wrote: »

They don't work harder than mine. I don't Think that in the scheme of things that nurses should be complaining about their lot.As professions go,it is one of the better ones

You have not shared with us what you do...I am by no means inferring it is less (or more) important than what I do...but it would be interesting to know ...

Fr. Ned

hmmm wrote: »

I don't understand the calculations - how many hours do nurses work?

22000/52/40 = 10.57 per hour for a 40 hour week.

22 grand for a starting salary straight out of college sounds pretty decent to me.

€10.57 an hour to deal with the sh1te that these, mostly young women, have to put up with on a daily basis.

You think that's 'pretty decent'?

Phoebas

Fr. Ned wrote: »

€10.57 an hour to deal with the sh1te that these, mostly young women, have to put up with on a daily basis.

You think that's 'pretty decent'?

The figure that the OP gave was €6.49 an hour, not €10.57.

For some reason he has chosen, despite having been asked four or five times now, not to explain it.

the_boatman

Sack Kay Burley wrote: »

I feel bad for nurses because they are people who want to help people but aren't smart enough to become doctors*.


* Not that doctors are even that smart to begin with.

what makes you think doctors want to help people , I believe the following are bigger motives

money
status
maintaining the family tradition , most doctors come from doctor stock

the_boatman

WilyCoyote wrote: »

Yes, I read your post. Was in hospital twice in Ireland (2007 and 2009)....... different hospitals ........ for a week each time and I spent about ten days in one out here (last year). So I'm merely saying what I saw. I'm not criticising the ethic of the nurses ........ just merely stating what I saw.
There are certain jobs that one can't have a valid opinion of without taking flak - gardai, teachers and nurses are the ones now. Years ago you couldn't criticise a priest ......
By insulating these positions from critical analysis, you're not doing anyone any favours. Least of all the gardai, teachers or nurses.

+1000

crockholm

shuvly wrote: »

You have not shared with us what you do...I am by no means inferring it is less (or more) important than what I do...but it would be interesting to know ...

No probs S-Mason

shuvly

crockholm wrote: »

no need to feel sorry for her,she's working tonight and I'm having a few beers.
And it isn't usual amongst nurses,once you go over your 35-36 hours,ye get well paid,so it is a Lifestyle choice should ye work more.

Believe it or not,but ****ty jobs exist outside nursing;)

I normally don't feed trolls but you are wrong..again. Nurses usually work 12 hr shift x 14 in 4 weeks..so yes..it is not uncommon that we work a 60 hr week once a month...(and, btw, I am happy for your wife that she is at work and not with you..and I hope she works nights regularly..a happy release I would imagine).

K-9

Phoebas wrote: »

The figure that the OP gave was €6.49 an hour, not €10.57.

For some reason he has chosen, despite having been asked four or five times now, not to explain it.

It's been clarified that €6.49 refers to student nurses in their last year, no point banging on about the OP coming back to the thread, they are under no obligation to do so!

€22/23,000 is hardly mega bucks, it's decent money but if people are posting enviously that 22k is great money, well, maybe the problem is the wages they are paid, not nurses.

It's €420 a week, take taxes and PRSI out of it, maybe €360/370 a week. Just because somebody is on crappy minimum wage rates out of college doesn't mean everybody should be!

Sack Kay Burley

the_boatman wrote: »

what makes you think doctors want to help people , I believe the following are bigger motives

money
status
maintaining the family tradition , most doctors come from doctor stock

You're absolutely right, but nurses always bang on about "helping people" when it's predominately about getting a well paying job in the long term with very few skills required.

crockholm

shuvly wrote: »

I normally don't feed trolls but you are wrong..again. Nurses usually work 12 hr shift x 14 in 4 weeks..so yes..it is not uncommon that we work a 60 hr week once a month...(and, btw, I am happy for your wife that she is at work and not with you..and I hope she works nights regularly..a happy release I would imagine).

O bless,once a month,how cruel.I guess it's good that she's gone so I can flirt with you for a bit;)

gctest50

Sack Kay Burley wrote: »

You're absolutely right, but nurses always bang on about "helping people" when it's predominately about getting a well paying job in the long term with very few skills required.

very few skills ?


bit like the september that never ends sometimes

Phoebas

K-9 wrote: »

It's been clarified that €6.49 refers to student nurses in their last year, no point banging on about the OP coming back to the thread, they are under no obligation to do so!

€22/23,000 is hardly mega bucks, it's decent money but if people are posting enviously that 22k is great money, well, maybe the problem is the wages they are paid, not nurses.

No it hasn't been clarified. €6.49 an hour isn't €22/23k p/a. The OP has said that nurses are being paid below minimum wage (in the thread title and the OP) and hasn't explained it.
He has posted loads of times on the thread after been asked to clarify, so if he doesn't want to he can easily say so himself.

Satriale

Phoebas wrote: »

No it hasn't been clarified. €6.49 an hour isn't €22/23k p/a. The OP has said that nurses are being paid below minimum wage (in the thread title and the OP) and hasn't explained it.
He has posted loads of times on the thread after been asked to clarify, so if he doesn't want to he can easily say so himself.

I'm not sure OP said that. He was commenting on the Cork examiner article below i believe.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/student-nurses-in-dail-protest-over-pay-257976.html

Im not sure how they came to that figure.

Sir Arthur Daley

This is very late to be discussing maths but bottom line is nurses are the back bone in our health system and they deserve every support and thanks for all the hard work they do, so for all the nurses out there a many many thanks.

Sack Kay Burley

WikiHow wrote: »

This is very late to be discussing maths but bottom line is nurses are the back bone in our health system and they deserve every support and thanks for all the hard work they do, so for all the nurses out there a many many thanks.

They are ultimately doing it for the cash, not to "help people".

It's funny how people become all teary eyed about nurses when they are just as self serving as everyone else really.

Phoebas

Satriale wrote: »

I'm not sure OP said that. He was commenting on the Cork examiner article below i believe.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/student-nurses-in-dail-protest-over-pay-257976.html

Im not sure how they came to that figure.

I'm also not sure where the figure comes from - that's why I'm asking for clarification from the OP.

It looks like they're treating a 36 week student nurse training payment as if it was a full year salary, but I can't tell.

Sir Arthur Daley

Sack Kay Burley wrote: »

They are ultimately doing it for the cash, not to "help people".

It's funny how people become all teary eyed about nurses when they are just as self serving as everyone else really.

Ur dead right :rolleyes:

Satriale

Sack Kay Burley wrote: »

They are ultimately doing it for the cash, not to "help people".

It's funny how people become all teary eyed about nurses when they are just as self serving as everyone else really.

You tell 'em. Nurses and puppies. Outlaw them i say!!

Nidge_Weasel

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

Nurses actually do stuff. The world no longer values people who do stuff. People who entertain, or talk, or write software or trade shares are valued. People who work, and get dirty, are considered as having little value, generally. Fcuked up world we live in.

If entertaining, writing software or trading is so easy, why dont you do it.

A Neurotic

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I couldn't make sense of the figures either so I found this.

http://www.hse.ie/eng/staff/Benefits_Services/pay/student%20nurses.pdf

They are not getting €22,000. They are getting €13207 (6.49 per hour) rising to €15852. But this is for students in their fourth year who have to do 36 weeks in a hospital, with all that entails. I see no indication that they get paid anything in their first three years as students (presumably in a classroom) but then students in classrooms don't normally get paid. I would be very dubious about any health care workers who only learned their trade in a classroom. So the argurment would be should they get paid the same as a fully qualified nurse for those 36 weeks.

Nursing students work on placement for a total of approximately 45 weeks, full time, during their first three years of training. They receive no pay for this placement. Unpaid nursing students are technically referred to as "supernumerary" in some hospitals, implying that they're surplus to requirements on the wards, yet often they'll be delegated a large proportion of the work (depending on the work ethic and character of their supervising nurses).

The majority of these students are young women who've come straight from secondary school. I imagine it's not easy working long, long days, sometimes being abused by patients or even staff, for absolutely no money, while most of their contemporaries in college can easily balance turning up to lectures, studying, and socialising. If student nurses were paid minimum wage for their 45 weeks of unpaid labour during years 1-3, they'd be owed nearly €14,000.

Sack Kay Burley wrote: »

You're absolutely right, but nurses always bang on about "helping people" when it's predominately about getting a well paying job in the long term with very few skills required.

I think people bang on about nurses banging on about "helping people" more than nurses bang on about anything to be honest.

You clearly have absolutely no idea what nurses do if you think there are very few skills required.

Phoebas wrote: »

No it hasn't been clarified. €6.49 an hour isn't €22/23k p/a. The OP has said that nurses are being paid below minimum wage (in the thread title and the OP) and hasn't explained it.
He has posted loads of times on the thread after been asked to clarify, so if he doesn't want to he can easily say so himself.

I believe the €6.49 an hour refers to the wage paid to nursing interns, i.e. nurses at the final stage of their undergraduate training (a 9 month placement in 4th year of college). They're given more responsibility as interns and so are paid a wage, as opposed to students at earlier stages. I believe interns used to receive something like 80% of a staff nurse's wage, but it's been cut incrementally in recent years down to 50%. The HSE initially wanted to abolish the intern wage altogether but the INMO and/or USI campaigned successfully to have it retained at 50% or so.

The figure of €22,000 meanwhile refers to the salary paid to qualified nurses on the HSE's new "graduate scheme". The graduate scheme claims to provide enhanced training opportunities to graduate nurses but seems to merely be an excuse for the HSE to hire nurses at a fraction of the full staff nurse salary. It is considered an insult to the profession by many and I think the INMO campaigned for nurses to boycott the scheme, leading to only a handful of places being taken up last year.

(I'm not 100% sure of the figures and percentages I've quoted above, apologies in advance if I've gotten any wrong)

shruikan2553

If people are willing to work for 22k then that is what they'll be offered. No idea how we are meant to give a value to a profession any other way.