Cyclists - lowlife criminals of the worst kind..

Dian Cecht

Call it any name you want. It's road tax. I pay it to drive my vehicle on the public roads. If I don't drive my vehicle on the public roads I don't need to pay it. Simple really.

chopper6

RainyDay wrote: »

Thanks for exposing yourself. This is clearly untruthful, and it will help all readers to keep your posts in context.
To answer your question, I ran into one man who stepped out onto the road without looking or listening (iPodded up). He was highly apologetic, and paid for the equipment that was damaged in my fall.

Jail? You're having a laugh - right? You can kill a cyclist or other road user with your car here and still not go to jail;
http://www.anglocelt.ie/news/courtreports/articles/2013/03/01/4014685-suspended-sentence-for-fatal-hit-and-run-driver-who-killed-monaghan-cyclist/
http://www.thejournal.ie/man-who-caused-death-by-dangerous-driving-gets-suspended-sentence-147372-Jun2011/
http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5863&Itemid=91
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/no-jail-for-drunk-who-killed-a-man-while-driving-wrong-way-on-dual-carriageway-26799523.html

The idea that road traffic law is actually enforced here in Ireland is a joke. Stand on any junction in Dublin for 10 minutes, and count the number of speeding drivers, count the 3-5 drivers who sneak through after the green light goes red, count the number of drivers on their phone etc.



Come back to me if/when motorists actually pay anything near the cost of our road infrastructure, and I might take you seriously. Until then, it's a nonsense argument. Cyclists pay tax, and most of them have also paid 'road tax' for the car they leave sitting in their driveway. But even if they didn't, it's a nonsense arguement. Do you want a dog walking tax, and a beach sand-castle building tax, and a child playground using tax?



Parking on the pavement is a big problem for many people, including people with disabilities as you point out. It is also a huge problem for parents pushing buggies. I regularly see buggies forced out onto the road, into dangerous positions due to selfish parking.


How can you say 'it seems like enough' when you've no idea what it brings in?

This morning, it was an 50-something male driver who blasted past the red light at one junction on Morehampton Road this morning, and just stopped in time, narrowly avoiding hitting me and several other pedestrians on the crossing.

It's not just about how it looks, it's about how it's used. If it is full of pedestrians trapsing across it, with their dog leads stretched across it creating a booby trap, I won't use it.

Absolutely no mention of dangerous cycling habits...again with the same thing from lethal motorists to people with buggies and now people out walking dogs.

I think your attitude seems to be that everybody else on the road AND on the pavement has no right to be there and it should be just you and your bicycle.

I tend to notice that the more a cyclist has these views about the rest of the world the more they tend to flout the laws to suit themselves...you think nobody can go to prison for motoring offenses and you uses a few newspaper articles to give the impression it's open season on cyclists.

Cyclist have been around since victorian times but lately there's a chip-on-shoulder element who want to bring militancy to the the hobby....like that idiot on youtube cycling around with a head cam looking for trouble.

If motorists were as full of self-righteousness as many cyclists there's be a LOT more accidents on the road.

Remember...you're flying around on a scrap of metal...you have no protection...if you're not careful and get injured you cannot always blame everybody else.

chopper6

RainyDay wrote: »

You exposed yourself by telling an untruth - saying that you never break the speed limit. Every driver breaks the speed limit - just look around you - even the old Granny in her Micra manages to break the speed limit the odd time.

You break the speed limit, and you're only kidding yourself if you think anyone believes otherwise.

So you're calling me a liar are you?

shruikan2553

Dian Cecht wrote: »

Call it any name you want. It's road tax. I pay it to drive my vehicle on the public roads. If I don't drive my vehicle on the public roads I don't need to pay it. Simple really.

Here you go.

http://www.environ.ie/en/LocalGovernment/MotorTax/MotorTaxRates/

Ambulances dont pay MOTOR tax! Well Im never getting out of the way for one, sure I pay my MOTOR tax, I have more of a right to be there!

Tenzor07

Still at it I see, Handbags at Dawn!

TonyStark

chopper6 wrote: »

How have i exposed myself?

I asked you a question and you answered( after a fashion) that you actually milled somebody.

I've never hit a person or an inanimate object,never mounted the pavement and never broke a red light.

I guess i'm a better motorist than you are cyclist and i'm not on here defending bad motorists yet you seem determined to defend cyclists breaking the law.

As a matter of interest, indulge us all...

How many times did you do your driving test..and how long is it since you have passed it?
What kind of car do you drive and what mileage do you put up a year on it?

I guess I for one would love to know what sort of experience you have behind the wheel of a car. For all we know you could have passed your test years ago, bought a car and have it parked in your driveway ever since.

I think I just need some context and then I will be content.

Dian Cecht

shruikan2553 wrote: »

Here you go.

http://www.environ.ie/en/LocalGovernment/MotorTax/MotorTaxRates/

Ambulances dont pay MOTOR tax! Well Im never getting out of the way for one, sure I pay my MOTOR tax, I have more of a right to be there!

If it was a "motor tax" I'd have to pay it whether I drive my vehicle on the road or not. Simple really.

All Government vehicles eg Garda, Ambulance & Army do not pay motor tax. Saves on the paperwork

chopper6

TonyStark wrote: »

As a matter of interest, indulge us all... .

Who exactly is "us all"?

Are you hearing voices or something?

TonyStark wrote: »

How many times did you do your driving test..and how long is it since you have passed it?
What kind of car do you drive and what mileage do you put up a year on it?

I guess I for one would love to know what sort of experience you have behind the wheel of a car. For all we know you could have passed your test years ago, bought a car and have it parked in your driveway ever since.

I think I just need some context and then I will be content.

Absolutely none of your business...the same as the make of car,the year of registration and how much it cost me.

If i break the law whilst motoring i expect to be prosecuted...i also expect the same to happen to cyclists despite thier arrogance in believing the rules of the road dont apply to them.

This particularly applies with regard to their attitude to pedestrians...running red lights,mounting the pavements and cycling the wrong way up one way streets.

rubadub

chopper6 wrote: »

So you're calling me a liar are you?

He doesn't have to, others will make up their minds, that's his point.

chopper6 wrote: »

I've never hit a person or an inanimate object,never mounted the pavement and never broke a red light.

Have you ever broken a red light in anyway? on a bicycle, or jaywalking?

Did you ever cycle ever in your life? was it ever on a path? even as a child, (which is illegal).

If you are truly confused about the whole thing, I would suggest calling into a garda station and saying you saw a 5 year old in your area cycling on a the footpath and ask what they plan to do about it, or ask what you should do in future.

Kurtosis

Dian Cecht wrote: »

If it was a "motor tax" I'd have to pay it whether I drive my vehicle on the road or not. Simple really.

But if it's really road tax, why do all the non-motorised vehicles driving on the road not have to pay it?

TonyStark

chopper6 wrote: »

Absolutely none of your business...the same as the make of car,the year of registration and how much it cost me.

I am just asking you to qualify your statement that you are this model driver and haven't broken any speed limits ever.

If you haven't at least once broken a speed limit to even overtake something slow moving I find perhaps you may not be a very confident driver.

Wolf Club

I really can't believe people are suggesting licensing and taxing for cyclists/bicycles. The incentive should be to get more people cycling, not discourage people from doing it. Our governments have come up with some pretty poor laws over the years but that would take the biscuit.

thecatspjs

Wolf Club wrote: »

I really can't believe people are suggesting licensing and taxing for cyclists/bicycles. The incentive should be to get more people cycling, not discourage people from doing it. Our governments have come up with some pretty poor laws over the years but that would take the biscuit.

Free biscuits for cyclists! Now there's an incentive.

rubadub

Wolf Club wrote: »

I really can't believe people are suggesting licensing and taxing for cyclists/bicycles. The incentive should be to get more people cycling, not discourage people from doing it.

Yeah, they are probably sitting in traffic cursing the amount of traffic about, then see a cyclist and pull in on him so he cannot pass. I know a guy who has drastically cut down on his cycling to work and gone back to his car, one of the last straws was some cunt purposely soaking him by swerving into a large puddle, well that cunt now has an extra car in front of himself in the morning, well done Einstein :rolleyes:

And why is there not similar calling for pedestrian licencing, registration, competency tests & footpath taxation?

If I had a child who was this ignorant/confused as this...

chopper6 wrote: »

Why do cyclists constantly harp on about motorists when they're called to account for their abuse of the rules of the road.

-and genuinely could not understand why a discussion of one type of road users will bring in comparisons to others, -then I would not let the child out on the street by himself, regardless of his age.

thecatspjs

I think the main problem with this debate is that the people who are seemingly ''against'' cyclists have never been cyclists. OK, they might have cycled to the shop to get milk once or twice in the summer, but they have probably never commuted 10 km+ per day to get to work for an extended period of time. They have no comprehension of what it is like for a cyclist out there.
On the other side of things, I would imagine that most cyclists have experience as drivers/pedestrians/users of public transport. So until the two sides have experienced both scenarios, it is very difficult to have a rational discussion. As seen above, it is just post after post of people repeating themselves.

Turtyturd

thecatspjs wrote: »

I think the main problem with this debate is that the people who are seemingly ''against'' cyclists have never been cyclists. OK, they might have cycled to the shop to get milk once or twice in the summer, but they have probably never commuted 10 km+ per day to get to work for an extended period of time. They have no comprehension of what it is like for a cyclist out there.
On the other side of things, I would imagine that most cyclists have experience as drivers/pedestrians/users of public transport. So until the two sides have experienced both scenarios, it is very difficult to have a rational discussion. As seen above, it is just post after post of people repeating themselves.

That's rubbish tbh.

thecatspjs

Turtyturd wrote: »

That's rubbish tbh.

Wow, good point. I retract my statement.

Turtyturd

thecatspjs wrote: »

Wow, good point. I retract my statement.

Your post was that bad it didn't deserve any better response.

'They have no comprehension of what it's like for cyclists out there'

:pac: A bit dramatic no?...it's not exactly being in the trenches during WW 1.

Does this stance of not being able to contribute to the debate unless you have experienced the other side apply to all debates?

chopper6

Saw another one this eveing undercutting a bus on the inside as the bus was pulling into the bus stop.

Of course the idiot cyclist suddenly realised he was about to get knocked off and stopped his bike and started roaring at the driver...the impatient fool was lucky he wasnt killed but *no* it's always somebody else's fault.

twowheelsgood

chopper6 wrote: »

Saw another one this eveing undercutting a bus on the inside as the bus was pulling into the bus stop.

Of course the idiot cyclist suddenly realised he was about to get knocked off and stopped his bike and started roaring at the driver...the impatient fool was lucky he wasnt killed but *no* it's always somebody else's fault.

For a lad who never broke the speed limit I have to say I am surprised, and yes disappointed, that you went dabbling in a bit of rubbernecking. :pac:

BTW: Have you ever cycled? Not a tricycle now, something a bit more challenging like say a chopper?

Pinch Flat

chopper6 wrote: »

Saw another one this eveing undercutting a bus on the inside as the bus was pulling into the bus stop.

Of course the idiot cyclist suddenly realised he was about to get knocked off and stopped his bike and started roaring at the driver...the impatient fool was lucky he wasnt killed but *no* it's always somebody else's fault.

Yeah funny you mention that. While waiting at the lights at the n4 flyover at Lucan, there were about 5 cars playing 'let's cram in the yellow box' at woodies. A taxi swan necked them, onto the other side if the road, nearly crashing head in into the car coming against him. Nearly caused a multiple car crash.

Do I win?

chopper6

twowheelsgood wrote: »

For a lad who never broke the speed limit I have to say I am surprised, and yes disappointed, that you went dabbling in a bit of rubbernecking. :pac:

BTW: Have you ever cycled? Not a tricycle now, something a bit more challenging like say a chopper?

I was waiting at the bus stop,whats your point again?

Nothing to say about the cyclist disobeying the rules of the road?

shruikan2553

chopper6 wrote: »

Saw another one this eveing undercutting a bus on the inside as the bus was pulling into the bus stop.

Of course the idiot cyclist suddenly realised he was about to get knocked off and stopped his bike and started roaring at the driver...the impatient fool was lucky he wasnt killed but *no* it's always somebody else's fault.

As I tried to overtake a bus when it was parked the driver decided to start driving, another car was moving towards me during this causing the car to stop or hit me.

So we have bus 1 - cyclist 1?

twowheelsgood

chopper6 wrote: »

I was waiting at the bus stop,whats your point again?

Nothing to say about the cyclist disobeying the rules of the road?

I have no problem saying that cyclists should abide by the rules of the road and those that don't should get a good (legal) seeing to. I don't think anyone on thread had disagreed with that. Most, including I, would simply add that motorists should abide by the rules too.

There is a lot of bad behaviour by cyclists. There is a lot of bad behaviour by motorists. A minority on this thread seem to be only vexed by one of these.

chopper6

shruikan2553 wrote: »

As I tried to overtake a bus when it was parked the driver decided to start driving, another car was moving towards me during this causing the car to stop or hit me.

So we have bus 1 - cyclist 1?

Did the bus's lights not come on as it started moving? Or did you think you could outrun it?

Knasher

chopper6 wrote: »

Nothing to say about the cyclist disobeying the rules of the road?

Nobody as a problem saying that cyclists should obey the rules of the road. Even the people who admitted to occasionally breaking them, admit that people should follow the rules of the road. The problem that the cyclists have with the positions and solutions offered by the non-cyclists is that, surprisingly, these solutions come off as being more aimed at discouraging people from cycling, than encouraging cyclists towards obeying the rules.

Some motorists speed, is that a justification for a new tax to be places on all motorists the same way you seem to think it should be for cyclists?

MajesticDonkey

This thread has a fascination level many times greater than other AH threads.

rwg

MajesticDonkey wrote: »

This thread has a fascination level many times greater than other AH threads.

Its been done to death on the motoring / cycling forum - 40,000 threads on cyclist v cars

cars always win :pac::pac::pac:

shruikan2553

chopper6 wrote: »

Did the bus's lights not come on as it started moving? Or did you think you could outrun it?

As I was beside the thing when it started moving I didnt see any lights or indicating.

I can outrun a parked bus, its when it starts moving I have issues.

chopper6

shruikan2553 wrote: »

As I was beside the thing when it started moving I didnt see any lights or indicating.

I can outrun a parked bus, its when it starts moving I have issues.

Well you obviously werent paying attention if you didnt notice taht it was about to move off. besides whn you're beside parked vehicles you can reasonably expect them to start moving at some point...buses are notorious for doing this...especially at bus stops.

shruikan2553

chopper6 wrote: »

Well you obviously werent paying attention if you didnt notice taht it was about to move off. besides whn you're beside parked vehicles you can reasonably expect them to start moving at some point...buses are notorious for doing this...especially at bus stops.

You dont think that maybe someone driving should check if someone is passing them before they move?

MajesticDonkey

chopper6 wrote: »

Well you obviously werent paying attention if you didnt notice taht it was about to move off. besides whn you're beside parked vehicles you can reasonably expect them to start moving at some point...buses are notorious for doing this...especially at bus stops.

Shouldn't it be called a "bus start" then?

TonyStark

chopper6 wrote: »

I was waiting at the bus stop,whats your point again?

From what you posted I was under the impression you drove everywhere! I was gonna chide you for blocking a bus stop.

Where was your car? parked up at your Mums? Sure it's easy not to get penalty points when your not in your car on daily basis. Is it even your car?

chopper6

MajesticDonkey wrote: »

Shouldn't it be called a "bus start" then?

So they can stop but they cant drive off again?

God,this is getting pathetic.

MajesticDonkey

chopper6 wrote: »

So they can stop but they cant drive off again?

Precisely.

chopper6 wrote: »

God,this is getting pathetic.

I agree.

SHOVELLER

A newish phenomenon is cycling up Francis Street into traffic in the morning. It's a one way street.

Incredible stupidity.

TonyStark

SHOVELLER wrote: »

A newish phenomenon is cycling up Francis Street into traffic in the morning. It's a one way street.

Incredible stupidity.

See them on Lombard Street doing the same.

SHOVELLER

Which is near Pearse Street Garda Station. Francis St near Kevin St Garda Station.

RainyDay

Dian Cecht wrote: »

Call it any name you want. It's road tax. I pay it to drive my vehicle on the public roads. If I don't drive my vehicle on the public roads I don't need to pay it. Simple really.

Nope, not that simple. I pay 'road tax' for the car that sits in my driveway most days. I don't have time to sit around in traffic, so I take the bike instead. So I'm paying the tax (like many other cyclists) but not driving my vehicle on the public road.

chopper6 wrote: »

Absolutely no mention of dangerous cycling habits...again with the same thing from lethal motorists to people with buggies and now people out walking dogs.

I think your attitude seems to be that everybody else on the road AND on the pavement has no right to be there and it should be just you and your bicycle.

I tend to notice that the more a cyclist has these views about the rest of the world the more they tend to flout the laws to suit themselves...you think nobody can go to prison for motoring offenses and you uses a few newspaper articles to give the impression it's open season on cyclists.

Cyclist have been around since victorian times but lately there's a chip-on-shoulder element who want to bring militancy to the the hobby....like that idiot on youtube cycling around with a head cam looking for trouble.

If motorists were as full of self-righteousness as many cyclists there's be a LOT more accidents on the road.

Remember...you're flying around on a scrap of metal...you have no protection...if you're not careful and get injured you cannot always blame everybody else.

It's a fairly classic straw man argument. It's not what I said at all, but you seem to think that if you twist my words, you can create an argument. I've repeatedly said that yes, some cyclists break rules of the road. I've said that is not a good thing.

You, on the other hand, have continued with the blinkered, one-sided argument that you've actually accused me of. You can only see one problem on the road, despite the evidence from road safety statistics as to where the real problem lies.

chopper6 wrote: »

So you're calling me a liar are you?

No, I'm calling your post an untruth. Are you seriously expecting anyone to believe that you've never broken a speed limit, or failed to indicate, or driven around with a blown bulb for a few minutes, or held your phone in your hand while driving? Tell me again how you're absolutely certain that you've never done any of these things, even once.

chopper6 wrote: »

If i break the law whilst motoring i expect to be prosecuted...i also expect the same to happen to cyclists despite thier arrogance in believing the rules of the road dont apply to them.

Your theory had little to do with the real world. Most drivers who break the rules of the road don't expect to be prosecuted. They know that there is a tiny chance that they'll get prosecuted, but they don't expect it.

Just like most cyclists (who of course, happen to drive cars occasionaly and live in the real world).

chopper6 wrote: »

besides whn you're beside parked vehicles you can reasonably expect them to start moving at some point...buses are notorious for doing this...especially at bus stops.

Yes, you're right - congratulations for noticing regular poor driving by bus drivers - a first for you. Bus drivers do often pull out without looking or even indicating.

Pinch Flat

Sorry lads and lassies, just checked back in after a few hours and it looks like it's still going around in circles.

Anyone got an opinion on the OP?

Plasid

Regarding the op, there is little chance that even in Sf such an idiotic excuse to recind (already poor and badly executed) spending on improving what little infrastructure we possess would be taken with any seriousness.

Despite obvious "shots fired" by the intransigent few ranting here, the crux of the issue, as with many of our social, political and financial woes is little to no inforcement of the laws we have, so the bads out there will continue to exploit as much as they like.

I also believe those bad cyclists are those same bad motorists... All very contrite when either is held to account, but not until...

Get some common sense (same applies to some of the infantile trolling in this forum)

ArmaniJeanss

Always surprised by the antagonism on these threads - have cycled to work or about town (dublin) semi-regularly for 15 years and touch wood have never come across many really bad drivers putting me at risk, and have never seen much dangerous rule breaking by cyclists either. Been in only one 'your a cnut, no you are' screaming match in all that time.

I'd be no saint - I'd have a fairly cavalier attitude to red lights at certain junctions where I know the sequence and traffic flows and have enough viewing angle to see theres nothing coming the other way, I'd also be a centre-of-lane claimer rather than a cycle path user. And would occasionally use some footpaths as well at really slow speeds. On the other hand I'm mega careful about looking out for pedestrians, and always use hand signals as a courtesy to traffic behind me, know all the buses off my heart so I know where a 46a is going to turn as opposed to an 11 or 140 etc, generally keep my wits about me as much as possible.

And in general always find car drivers/ bus drivers/ taxi drivers to all be fine as well - everyone is just trying to get from A to B as safely and trouble free as possible.

Just in case anyone is thinking of cycling and thinks reading threads like this that it must be a warzone out there - honestly its not.

No Pants

Maybe SF could contribute some of the Northern Bank money towards enforcement.

I always find SF's opinions on law and order hypocritical, disgusting and insulting. Apologies for sounding like a Daily Fail reader for a moment.

ThisRegard

LizT wrote: »

Keep it civil from here on out please, any more off topic flaming and the thread will be closed.

Civility and cyclist threads in After Hours are one of the few mutually exclusive things in the world right now.

Chips Lovell

Leaving aside the fact that a lot of cyclists don't want any investment in cycling specific infrastructure for the moment.

Doesn't this SF's councillor employ some bizarre logic? Imagine saying, for example, that we should stop investing in roads because of the amount of speeding going on.

ArmaniJeanss

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Always surprised by the antagonism on these threads - have cycled to work or about town (dublin) semi-regularly for 15 years and touch wood have never come across many really bad drivers putting me at risk, and have never seen much dangerous rule breaking by cyclists either. Been in only one 'your a cnut, no you are' screaming match in all that time.

I'd be no saint - I'd have a fairly cavalier attitude to red lights at certain junctions where I know the sequence and traffic flows and have enough viewing angle to see theres nothing coming the other way, I'd also be a centre-of-lane claimer rather than a cycle path user. And would occasionally use some footpaths as well at really slow speeds. On the other hand I'm mega careful about looking out for pedestrians, and always use hand signals as a courtesy to traffic behind me, know all the buses off my heart so I know where a 46a is going to turn as opposed to an 11 or 140 etc, generally keep my wits about me as much as possible.

And in general always find car drivers/ bus drivers/ taxi drivers to all be fine as well - everyone is just trying to get from A to B as safely and trouble free as possible.

Just in case anyone is thinking of cycling and thinks reading threads like this that it must be a warzone out there - honestly its not.

Your point are very good and you are not ranting, because I past the Custom house in Dublin going Northside to Southside at various times of the day I see all kinds of cycling behaviour I have been doing this for 14 years I have had only one serious encounter with a cycles and the scary thing is I could have killed him, he was completely in the wrong but that does not matter I would have been devastated. It happened very quickly and involved him going through a red light and not realising there was a filter light to turn right on my side.

I find the vast majority of cycles no bother they just want to get around, however there is a small percentage, who are either adrenalin junkies and or are aggressive and I also suspect an even smaller present who are playing a game of Russian roulette with them selves. cyclists are entitled to use the road as much as cars but thy have to obey the rules in the same way cars do and that does mean obeying the red lights.

ThisRegard

mariaalice wrote: »

cyclists are entitled to use the road as much as cars but thy have to obey the rules in the same way cars do and that does mean obeying the red lights.

So with regards to the city centre, this means occasionally speeding through red ones then.

And the circle continues.

chopper6

This sort of organised thuggery and intimidation by cyclists is gonna get somebody killed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF7uY9ydMYc

Chips Lovell

Indeed. Stuff that happened in San Francisco, seven years ago is going to get someone killed here in Ireland today.

jimgoose

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Indeed. Stuff that happened in San Francisco, seven years ago is going to get someone killed here in Ireland today.

Yes, and in fairness those people are all idiots, including herself in the car! :pac::pac::pac: